Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse · March 2012

Graphic the base Sonata's are horrible what do you want for $20K, however the standard features in the car are very impressive, I thought the same thing when I had one last year. I only rent from National, and at my elite level I can pick any car I want to drive, so if I see a Sonata and it's not a limited I pass it, I'll take a Camry instead.

fedlawman · March 2012

Mine's a Malibu Hybrid. The federal government bought a bunch of them in 2009 and 2010 to help with the Big-3 bailout. No squeaks or rattles in mine. The structure feels very rigid and the suspension has an almost European firm yet compliant feel.

There are three of us in my office. One of my partners got a Fusion Hybrid and it's a better car than the Malibu, but I find the seats uncomfortable and the engine a little unrefined sounding (and the CVT sucks - I hate CVT's). The third guy got a Chevy HHR - what a POS that is...

sweendogy · March 2012

I think it was the big 2, dont think ford took money from the AIFM. - they did receive a DOE loan to produce fuel efficient cars- so did tesla and the others. Have to like what the uS guys are doing with the loans- plus at 30% the government made out pretty good as well

flightnurse · March 2012

Swenny you are correct, Ford did not take any money, they just sold off Jag, Volvo and Aston Martin and mortgaged some property to raise the cash they needed. They have done very well for themselves..

I also have to give it to both GM and Chrysler they have done well too, I personally think that Chrysler has done much better in the quality game then GM.

nyccarguy · March 2012

Some pics of my recently acquired 2001 328xi. Higher quality pics to follow. Took these pre dawn with my beloved iPhone:

nyccarguy · March 2012

Be forewarned. My recently acquired 2011 BMW 328xi is going to be very tough to replace in 30 months. This thing has set my personal bar extremely high. I don't wish to buy another car with electric power steering. I want it to be built on a RWD platform. Excellent driving dynamics, High quality interior materials, and refinement mean a great deal to me. Don't give me what I want, I'll buy my current leased car out, and you won't see me in a showroom for a long time to come.

stickguy · March 2012

should have just bought it in the first place.

I really need to stop torturing myself looking at the CPO listings at my local dealer. And I really need to stay the heck out of the showroom. Well, maybe just stopping in for a quick test drive. That couldn't possibly hurt, right?

rayainsw · March 2012

I hear you.
I will face a similar issue when my 3 lease runs out...
One option is to buy this car.
- Ray
Wondering what the ELLPS landscape will look like in 1.5 years.......

nyccarguy · March 2012

Seems like BMW is trying to become more "Mercedes-Like" with their tuning their cars toward ride comfort & Mercedes is trying to become more "BMW-Like" trying to make their cars more sporty.

I've yet to drive one, but if MB offers a C350 Sedan with 4Matic and Sport Suspension it may very well be the winner next time around. MB puts some serious "conquest cash incentives" on their cars as of late too.

I hope BMW figures out that electric power steering stinks and gives it to me how I like it! Like in my E90.

sweendogy · March 2012

What are the Packages on the car again? Cost to you- and dealer

stickguy · March 2012

well, the just introduced 3 series sounds like a winner, so you should be good for a while. Who knows (who cares!) about the other players.

But, I am thinking that I wish I had the budget to snag my next (and very long term) ride now, with some of the nice 2008/2009 CPOs floating around.

stickguy · March 2012

speaking of packages, I love the way my local dealer does their listings (not sure if all BMW dealers are like this). Well done ad, and in the detail, it lists all of the packages/options (with original prices even), so you know exactly how each car is equipped. No guessing, no need to worry about some clerk checking the wrong boxes (pretty sure this is somehow automated off of VIN)

flightnurse · March 2012

Hey Stick all BMW dealers do that, it is nice to see what packages are on the cars when they list them for sale. I have noticed Audi does the same thing.

FN

flightnurse · March 2012

NYC, I believe that car manufactures are trying to make the best of the new CAFE numbers, and to do so, any and all load is going to be taken off the engine. Now until they can get their CAFE # up each and every one of them is going to be doing something different.

FN

graphicguy · March 2012

Nyc.....too nice . Big congrats!

nyccarguy · March 2012

Here's the information you requested:

2011 BMW 328xi

6-Speed Steptronic Transmission
Value Package
Premium Package
Navigation
Xenon Adaptive Headlights
Split Folding Rear Seats
Heated Steering Wheel
Metallic Paint

MSRP: $44,190
Sale Price: $38,746 ($5444 off MSRP)

I was never able to calculate the exact dealer invoice due to the fact that nowhere (edmunds, kbb, true car, bimmerfest) of the Premium Package. I probably ended up paying $500 over invoice.

nyccarguy · March 2012

Thanks my friend. I didn't negotiate as well as you could have Jedi Master. I am ungodly happy with my BMW. I love it!

fedlawman · March 2012

Finally, the pictures! Thanks. How about some interior shots?

I got my issue of Car & Driver today and there's a nice comparo of the current crop of ELLPSs. The new 328i wins, of course, but they mentioned the electric steering more than once. At the end of the article, they basically said to go buy a 2011 if you like a more sporting car...

I think you made a good move NYC.

nyccarguy · March 2012

Thanks fedlawman! I cannot wait to make it through break in. I'm so ready to drop the hammer & see what it's made of;)

I'll take some interior shots tomorrow.

The difference between the BMW & others in the class is the fact that I've wanted a BMW of my own for a long time now. Growing up in the 1980's, I never thought much of the E30's 3 box styling. It wasn't until a close friend graduated college & bought himself a fully loaded E36 325is w/ stick shift & sport package. It stickered for about the same as an E36 M3 at the time. One night we were at a club in Buffalo. At about 2AM, he was trying to hook up with some 6' blonde girl (my friend is 5'6"). I told Chris I needed to get home to drive back to school (Ithaca) the next day. He tossed me his car keys & said: "see you for breakfast."

I remember sliding into the sport seat of that E36 and it just fit me perfectly. I spent the next 2 1/2 hours tearing around the streets of Buffalo. I even perfectly rotated the car around corners & steered it's tail end with the throttle a few times.

At breakfast the next AM. "Bradd, you know I don't care, but what were you doing with my car last night?"

I tell him how much I LOVE his car & how difficult it will be to hop into my car (1992 Beretta GT) & drive back to Ithaca. "Why?"

Chris tells me his sky pager kept going off (they say blowin up now) with messages like: "Chris, slow down!". "Chris, I think someone stole your car."

From that night in Buffalo until last week, I've wanted a BMW of my own. I finally got it! And I love it!

fedlawman · March 2012

That's awesome! The VANOS I-6 is one the sweetest engines of all time. Terrific manual transmission too. Similar to the M20, but a little silkier IIRC.

No other engine can match a BMW I-6 for that feeling and sound. Enjoy your 3er because when the I-6's are all gone (and they are going), that sweet, smooth wonderfulness will be but a memory...

Now finish your story. Did Chris enjoy his evening as much as you did yours?

graphicguy · March 2012

nyc....you did good on your deal. No worries there.

I'm not one of those people who "baby" cars during break-in. Now, I don't go tearing through the gears, redlining each one, every time I'm behind the wheel. Nor, do I test the limits of ABS when I first get a car.

But, I also don't make any undo effort to keep below a certain speed/RPM. That philosophy has served me well.

Wait until you get about 5K miles on it. It seems to really open up then. And MPG improves around that mark, too.

Have fun!

fedlawman....the 335i still uses the I-6, only it has the dual scroll turbo. It also has all the other current engine tricks with VANOS (variable valve timing) and direct injection. I took mine a step further and had the dealer add the power kit package that boosts HP by 20 and torque by 30+. This is sanctioned by BMW, is warranted the same as the regular BMW warranty, and is mainly an update to the engine management system.

I think both 3.0 I-6s (boosted and non-boosted) are way underrated for HP and torque, as both feel a lot stronger than BWM's numbers suggest.

nyccarguy · March 2012

for my man fedlawman's request -

flightnurse · March 2012

I agree I don't baby mine nor do I red line it either, so far I'm averaging 21 in mine I only have 3700 miles on it too.

I was under the impression that the 335i engine had the double VANOS (intake and exhaust.) Also if you swap out the intercooler for an aftermarket unit you will increase HP about 15%, this wont void the warranty either.

German HP rating, I don't think it is just BMW, but all German brands. For the amount of HP that the german print I have always though they were off their mark. The 7 series with the Twin Turbo 6 is rated at 315hp and 330lbs, moves this 4600lb car fro 0-60 in 5.8 sec. This is a couple of ticks slower then a 3 series 4 cy turbo. Very impressive, when we drove one, I could have sworn it had more HP then what BMW rated it at.

FN

flightnurse · March 2012

NYC, I find it interesting that people think they need to go into a dealership and try and beat the dealer down to a profit margin of -10% on cars. I tell people, if YOU are happy with the deal and if YOU are happy with the car then YOU did good. There are monies on all cars that not even edmonds know about, it sounds like you are happy and that is a good thing.

BTW, check out www.truecar.com great website for auto pricing

nyccarguy · March 2012

I agree. There's ALWAYS going to be someone who paid less. I couldn't be happier with my car! Besides the $5444 I got off the MSRP, I'm getting 2 pmt credits from BMWFS totaling $1000. Any car deal (no matter what the salesman says) makes the dealer money. You'll never get a car for "Net Net.".

I love my new BMW!

graphicguy · March 2012

flightnurse...you're right. The 335i does utilize BMW's "double" VANOS variable valve timing.

I'm relatively certain that both the published HP and torque ratings on the i-6 are under rated.

stickguy · March 2012

I am really jonesing for one of those CP) 328is I found. Wonder if my son would care if I skipped paying his senior year college tuition? A diploma is overrated, right?

flightnurse · March 2012

Hey Stick make your son pay for his senior year, builds character.. BTW, BMW builds a 328is?

stickguy · March 2012

so I forgot an appostrophe. Supposed to have been plural (more than 1 328i!). And I think he would have to sell a kidney or 2 to buld that much character.

But, I am being tortured. Just glanced out to the parking lot, and 2 down from my car is a new looking (old style, but not very old) black 3 series. I feel like I am being stalked, or haunted. Or just plain teased.

flightnurse · March 2012

I figured that was the case, however I have been wondering if BMW would build a 328is, this time build based on the sedan not the coupe. Give it more HP, more sport just like the 335is...

Have you looked at carmax regarding your BMW. The ZPH forum I'm on finds ZPH 330's that are for sale. It seem's carmax as 3 of them currently for sale, One is a convert in Vegas, one is a sedan and other is coupe, low 20's for them, great price, the coupe I saw the ad, it has mid 50's for mileage, and price was in the low 20's. Good price for what you are getting. Just another avenue for you to look at.

FN

nyccarguy · March 2012

Im being an enabler here once again - the car is sweet.

fedlawman · March 2012

GraphicGuy - You're right, of course about the 335i, and it is also a really sweet engine. I was just commenting specifically on NYC's story about his friend's E36. I also agree that it is underrated at 300hp - it definitely feels stronger than that. And yours with the remap upgrade must be a monster. I think they didn't want the 335i to steal M3 sales, but I think it probably does with all that torque. The 335i and M3 have very difference power delivery and personalities, but it's the 335i that feels more muscular in the power department - Americans tend to prefer that feeling.

NYC - Thanks for the inside shots. Your car is loaded and looks really nice. Some people don't like wood trim, but I think it looks really classy. Very nice car!

graphicguy · March 2012

stick.....you got your son most of the way. He can pick up the light work on the last year of his tuition..... :P

Besides, as nyc pointed out, there are some deals to be had on '11 3 Series right now. Gotta strike while the iron's hot!

BTW.....I'm getting between 21 MPG and 22 MPG in town, and just broke 30 MPG in a mix of 90% highway and 10% city driving. I run straightly Costco Premium in it.

I'm happy with that.

nyccarguy · March 2012

Thanks so much! Im not a huge wood trim fan either, but love it and everything about my new 3.

stickguy · March 2012

the one at my office (I stopped to look on my way out) was basically your car in black (over tan). A 328i X-drive. Not sure of the navi 9forgot to look). Very nice looking.

most likely a 2011 since the inspection sticker was issued 10/11.

sweendogy · March 2012

While i think the 328xi is a great car- Wonder what a leftover g37x with the same options would be- plus you get an extra 100plus hp. Since 90 plus % of 328x cars are auto anyway- I would argue you can get a better car for less. Plus despite what others believe the Infiniti is very low maintenance - i know bc ive spent under 500 bux in 4 years. I know bmw will throw in an oil change or 2 but if you consider the numbers it's still a no- brainier. Sorry to ruin the love fest- and if you dont believe me read consumer reports - the category is entry level - price matters

graphicguy · March 2012

flightnurse....not that it means all that much, but in my younger years a buddy and I had a ragged out Mustang track only car. We used to run it at the local 1/4 mile track.

I don't track anymore. But, am always curious about the speed of my personal ride. Very unofficial, and done with a passenger holding a digi watch, but I put up a 0-60 in the low 5s in my 335i. That was before the Power Package install. I'm certain it will it high 4s 0-60 now.

Not too shabby for an automatic, 6 cyl.

flightnurse · March 2012

Sweeny only way to find out is go buy one and let us know.

flightnurse · March 2012

Graphic it appears most gear-heads had a mustang at one time. I'm no different,had a nice 65 and 70 Boss 302. I miss the Boss...

I'm sure you could get in the mid 4's with the car with a little work, there are many aftermarket companies that have goodies for your car, just depends on how deep your pockets are, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSOTgmhhlqg

Fed, I'm sure the guys who buy a M car new, really don't car that with less money a lesser BMW can beat it...

FN

fedlawman · March 2012

True. I saw an M on the road yesterday. I couldn't take my eyes off it. I've seen them plenty, but those huge rear wheels and quad pipes sticking out the back give it a real menacing look. Surprisingly different from the 335i, which should look very similar yet somehow looks more elegant than menacing with the same body.

Although I would most definitely be happy with a 335i, I would pay more for the M - it's more my style.

If I'm not bouncing off the rev limiter at 8000 RPM, I might as well be driving my wife's Volvo.

flightnurse · March 2012

I have to agree, listening to the V8 at 8K has a nice sound to it, but then again having a plain jane 335i keep the police away too.

mvs1 · April 2012

Student loans are cheap money and this would 'build character'. My parents did the very same, minimal monies from them and the rest on me and/or my employer at the time....made me appreciate what I've worked for now. I do feel for the new graduates that come in with $200k plus student loans hanging over their heads nowadays

graphicguy · April 2012

flightnurse....yeah....we saw a lot of Mustangs at the track.....Cameros, too Ours was a poor excuse for a Mustang. The body was a mess. We took out every and any thing that had weight to it. We got to the point where the body looked like aluminum foil on the inside.

We spent most of our effort with the 302, performance heads, exhaust, etc. We trailered it to the track and trailered it home. I wish I still had the money I put into that heap. But, it was fast. And, we had an awfully good time messing with it over the years.

It sat in my buddy's back yard for a few years. Finally, his wife told him he either had to use it, or lose it. We sold the drivetrain complete. But, we parted out the rest of what was left of it. I think there are actually two boxes of parts left of it still sitting in his garage.

Went to that same track 2-3 years ago just to watch. In addition to Cameros, Firebirds and Mustangs, we saw a lot of WRXs, EVOs, a few of those recent half hearted GM attempts to revive the dead again Pontiac GTOs.

The WRXs and EVOs should stick to motor cross. We saw more than one of each blow up on the track. The Fast and Furious crowd think that putting a NOS system in them is all it takes. You could tell when they injected them....they'd get a 50 yard burst, a big "POW" and then lots of smoke and limping away.

nyccarguy · April 2012

Always interesting to get another perspective on how my BMW drives, especially from the person who didn't want me to get rid of her beloved Acura (she got the engagement ring & the big wedding). I brought my sons (5 1/2 & 3) to work with me on Saturday. We took the Pilot. This left my wife home with our 4 month old daughter & my BMW.

We were on our way to a friend's Saturday night & I asked her: "So what'd you think of my car?"

She tells me: "It's fast. Very fast. I looked down a few times & was shocked to be going 90."

So I ask her: "So you like it then?"

She replies: "Well the navigation in the Acura was easier to use."

She doesn't want to admit I'm right! I love her anyway!

stickguy · April 2012

I still get a laugh out of the people that try to make a NA 328 out to be some kind of slug that can barely get out of it's own way. Unless you are out on a track (and I mean a real track, not auto-x) it is still (even an AWD slushbox) scary fast, when you are talking about driving in the real world.

Going back a few years, my (sons) 2000 Acura TL is also a ticket magnet. that car just loves to cruise fast. 75 seems to be it's natural loafing sweet spot, and if you don't pay a lot of attention it will creep right up to 90 without noticing it.

Was like that since new according to my sister (the original owner) and will still do it now with 162K on the clock. Good thing my son is religious about using CC coming down from the north country (there is a whole lotta nothing on I81 and the NE extension of the PA turnpike, and you could easily cruise at 100)

flightnurse · April 2012

I don't want to hijack this tread, but yeah, those were the days.. BTW, the First Gen Eclipes if set up right were very fast...

sweendogy · April 2012

From a standstill to 60 in 6.5, in auto- fast sure but new wrangler does the same sprint to 60 in 6.7- and I would say that's "scary fast" given the fact it's a tin box on stilts. Let's remember the car starts at 37k without options - again nice car but it's not end all be all- certainly not in automatic form and certainly not for the inflated msrp. I would equate this car to Kentucky basketball Always a good team, wins the championship a lot - but doesn't play by the rules- entry level sedan should not cost this much new.

graphicguy · April 2012

sween....gotta say buddy, you've made some pretty far fetched comparisons in this thread, but dragging the jeep into this is about as far out there as you can possibly get. I'm thinking you might want to give it a rest for a while to gather some perspective before venturing into the waters we're swimming in this thread.

sweendogy · April 2012

buddy i really took a deep dive and compaired the jeep to a bmw, buddy- what I did say that that jeep is almost as fast as the bmw to 60, and its scary fast given the structure. (pretty clear where I was going with this) Sure it does not belong here, but on the thread you speak of- we have all talked m3's, porsche, Boss 302s - all within the last month.. If you dont like what I wrote fine but you have added nothing but an insult, buddy.

Waters warm and I love to swim.

nyccarguy · April 2012

sweendogy - I'll agree with you that price absolutely matters in this and any category. Everybody's got a price ceiling, whether its a dollar amount or a payment amount whether you are talking Civic vs. Focus, this current crop of ELLPS, The 5, E, A6 group, and even the 7, S, A8 models.

Price drove my purchase. I had equity in my Acura, BMW offered generous discounts and incentives, so I got a car I've been dreaming about since the late 1990's.

I love the way the G37X drives. There's something to be said for the fact that the car has an extra almost 100 horsepower. It is a rocket. Its power is intoxicating. It is faster than my 328xi for sure. So you could say the Infiniti offers a faster car for the same or for less money. I don't personally think faster equates to better.

Cars in this class aren't all about 0 - 60 mph times. There is so much more to the equation that I know you know, otherwise you wouldn't be driving a G. You'd be driving a 5.0 Mustang or Camaro SS.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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