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Comments
Your butt gets bigger when you're too lazy to shift. The seats get wider because your butt got bigger. The car got bigger because the seats got wider. The car got heavier because the car got bigger. The brakes got bigger because the car got heavier.....
Before I get rebuked - yes, I know that it would take about 1,000 shifts to burn enough calories to make up for the Snicker's bar or MacDonald French Fries. It's not the physical act of shifting that determines the width of one's butt. That's just the canary in the mine shaft of our mental attitudes. Not a sermon, just a thought.
Like you, my biggest buggaboo are the seats. Unless you go with sport seats, at extra cost, the standard seats, even in my coupe, really aren't all that comfortable. The seat bottoms are flat and hard, with no thigh support.
The only other "quasi" issue I have with the F30s is the protrusion of the nav system......it looks like an afterthought.
I also agree that BMW did indeed do some cost cutting with the dials and knobs. You can tell the difference going from an E9X to an F30.
I'd say we've pretty much incorporated X-drive across virtually all BMW's -- because they sell and because they make profit.
Someone told me that Porsche would never make a CUV (or SUV) and would never create a sedan and that Porsche's were "only" about performance -- then the 944 came out.
BTW there is a team of lawyers who look out for the use of coke (little c) -- they always want to see it as Coke. Likewise quattro is well, "quattro" not Quatro or Quattro -- the Audi legal team will, no doubt, be sending Edmunds a cease and desist demand if they allow us to post the brand incorrectly.
Virtually all I see here in Cincinnati are AWD Porsches -- and I suspect the two Porsche dealers are happy as a clam in its shell to sell as many of them as they can get their hands on.
For most mere mortals, living through even our "moderate" winters, AWD vehicles are more, dare I say, practical. The fact that some of the highest performing vehicles are offered in AWD trim is, for some, a bonus.
Drive it like you live. :surprise:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
- four wheel alignment (well, OK that may be a legitimate item for those concerned, but why isn't that covered than if all is supposed to so free, free, free): $200. WHAT???!!!! :mad: Market rate is between $50 (with coupon) and $80, I understand that's a premium place, but not at a tripple rate.
- engine induction system cleaning. Yeah, right at 15K miles it's soooo dirty, especially when using a brand premium gas. I have never done one and I owned some perfomance cars, like STI. No thanks. BTW, price is also $200, a little over double of market.
- power steering fluid flush. Really?? At 15K??? Are your serious??? Oh, also $200.
Wow. So this is how "free, free, super free" service looks like - nice isn't it? Absolutely ridiculous, both in terms of "recommendations" and prices. I wonder how many poor saps would they scare into doing this.
I told them to jump into the lake (in much nicer words, of course), and the "advisor" didn't even flinch, except he told me all that story about lost goodwill at beyond warranty (yes, I do plan to keep my car for longer, at least today). But when you count all those "recommended" services at those highly inflated prices, it's like paying for that good will, just up front. I'll do when it comes, got enough money for that. A coworker summarized it well - she said it's basically bying a friend.
I already dread my next visit and "advice" at 30K. I hate those pitches. The sad part is that in the noise there can be something actually worth doing, but when you get hit for money just for the sake of it, I lose all trust to my "advisor" and have to work on my own what actually is worth doing and at what price.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I agree with you that the way an engine sounds & the smoothness of how it delivers power are important to me as well. It doesn't get any better than our N52 Inline 6.
How many miles are on your wagon? Do you need anything fixed (under warranty) or do they just need to do the service? I just hit 11,000 miles this AM & my OBC says I still have 4900 miles to go before I need my 1st service.
I've got 3 minor issues that I'm holding out until the 1st service to bring it in for.
(1) the panel gaps between the hood & the front fender (1/4 panel) are uneven. The driver's side is nice and tight, while the passenger side is noticeably wider to the naked eye.
(2) when I first drive the car in the AM, while sitting at a long traffic light, the engine idle jumps up & down between 500 & 700 RPM.
(3) When it is cold out (in the 40s & under), my trunk does not latch closed. I have to stick a key in the latch so it catches when I close it.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Mine never suggested anything like that.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
They also agreed to replace a torn door sill - it was me, hitting it hard every time I got out of the car, the sill split it two at point of those impacts, about 3 inch long split. I must admit, it was because the way I like to sit (lowest possible, as far as possible), combined with my weight and general clumsiness when getting out. Since I noticed the damage, I'm making more concerted effort to get out in a way avoiding this damage, but I still catch myself hitting the area once in a while. So I'm thankful for that - not expecing to get such consideration if keep banging this sill on next service, so I'll try to excercise more caution when getting out of the car.
I also lost an undercarriage bumper for the lifts (it was discovered in a tire shop some time ago) - $69 to put it back. I'm OK with that.
Other than that, the car is perfect. They'll replace the wipers (free). The mileage: 14,000. 12 months and three days since delivery in Munich.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Like I said, otherwise, it's a pleasant experience :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I am planning on stopping into mine later this week on our X5d to order the trailer hitch and spare tire kit (blew it, should have checked that box). We only have 1,400 miles on the vehicle, but I will be asking to speak to the service manager just to make sure we don't get hit with any of the BS you just went through.
Mike Miller at Roundel (the BMW Car Club magazine) puts out a good comprehensive schedule of what maintenance is needed on various BMWs, it's free to BMWCCA members. You can also get similar ones at "Bavarian Otto's" blog on the Bavauto.com website.
I have found that if you stick to these schedules you will get many trouble free miles from your car. They are a little more comprehensive than the maintenance BMWNA gives you but not as extensive as the extras your dealer is pushing at you. There's no way you need a P/S flush at 15K, you can go 100K without problems and that
induction system cleaning is pure BS.
If I were you I'd find another dealer for warranty work and a good Indie shop for everything else.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I'm generally not opposed to somebody setting whatever their price can be - it's free market and it is their choice to do so, as it is mine to use them or not (basically market sets those limits). I'm also cognizant that my car is one of cheapest they have out there, so the perspective is different - somebody with $100K 7-series may not care if alignment is $100 or $200, but they may care more about "concierge" type of service that you get in such a place. Those "free" perks can be quite costly. I don't need them, I'd rather keep my money, but again - they cater to people who do care and such a treatment costs money. Fine with me.
I can't be angry at Ritz for their hotel room prices being out of what I'm willing to pay, so I'm not angry at Reeves for $200 alignment price. It's too high IMHO, so thanks, but no thanks. It's the other two "recommendations" that really bother me, because they are trully bogus in my opinion.
I don't think you need to worry about anything at 1400 miles. This is not the case of somebody putting the car on the lift and then telling you your (fill the blank) is broken and has to be fix for X. This was planned maintenance visit used as an opportunity for an upsell, because they think that whatever BMW pays them is not enough. They invented a bogus need for some preventative stuff that don't really need, but nobody can disprove such need. I'm already used to that - every time you have an AC service as maintenance, the guy without a fault will "recommend" duct cleaning, coil cleaning and other equally "preventative" stuff, not to mention a UV lamp to kill bacteria with a bargain price of over two grand, or electrostatic filter for another two.
All I need is to say no and they go away.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The vast majority.
Enthusiasts, who have a clue how cars work and what's actually required, are no longer the target market for BMW (or any of the others, for that matter).
Enthusiasts, who have a clue how cars work and what's actually required, are no longer the target market for BMW (or any of the others, for that matter).
Isn't it interesting how the same answer works more than once?
My quick take is that Tesla has a great vehicle for greenies, geeks and semi-enthusiasts that can will get excited by the 240 volt plug, 17" touchscreen, or holding the steering wheel in both hands on a vigorous test drive....
....but, once you come to a stop and look around the interior of the car, you realize pretty quickly that you aren't sitting in a Panamera, CLS, A7, 5-series. I don't want my first impression to be too harsh, and intend to go back with my wife when she can do a test drive in the next week or two. But I think Tesla might have more of a packaging problem with the interior than their sexy photographs and YouTube videos suggest. The seats were Toyota Camry quality and the empty area below the dash and between the driver and passenger seat (where the gear shift and center console would normally be) looked awful and detracted from the sense that you were sitting in a high tech, high quality cockpit. Neither the car I test drove nor the other one in the showroom had the panorama sunroof. Too bad, because the headliner looked like it was poorly fitted and finished. Which was also the case with the leather on the showroom model's seats. Overall, other than the 17" screen and dash, I was underwhelmed by the interior design, fit and finish.
The test drive itself was much better. Car has good acceleration from a standstill, even the "base" model I drove. It was even more impressive going from 40 to 70 on the highway. I am sure the performance model is a hoot to drive. Handling felt very good but I didn't get a chance to really test it fully to be able to call it great.
I need to go back again and stew on this before hitting that configure button.
Dino - funny you commented on our cars' cupholders. I have no problem with the cupholders in the E90. Holds my cup with no problems. When I don't make, there's always room for a DD medium or large w/ no issues.
cdnpinhead - I plan on doing some DIY oil changes inbetween the freebies BMW gives me just in case I decide I want to buy my car out at lease end. I know it's most likely pointless & a waste of money, but I want to do it to get some experience.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
So, yes I found one thing in F30 I really like more than in my E91 - it is CUPHOLDER. :sick:)
2018 430i Gran Coupe
They would load up a case of techron in my trunk (with an inflated charge tacked onto my oil change bill for the privilege). They said it was "recommended" to put in a bottle of techron in the gas tank with every fili up. It is? Recommended by whom?
My current BMW dealer (the one who's least preferred in the area) have been at the pinnacle of customer service for me. My BMW service has been free, as they state.
Although, I can see my RFTs are going to need replacing by next Spring, maybe sooner. I do think the next set of shoes are going to be conventional (non-RFTs). While I tend to be more cautious with tires, I'm going to swap these out at 20K miles. I could probably get 25K-30K miles out of them, though.
I think a lot of it depends on the service manager regarding their practices. What's really a shame, many people think they absolutely need to have their power steering flushed, or that they have to have injectors cleaned every 10K miles.
Personally, I've never had a clogged injector, nor have I ever had so much "gunk" in my power steering fluid reservoir that I needed it to be flushed. Today's fuels are required by law to contain detergents that keeps injectors clean.
habitat....cool write up on the Tesla. I hope they thrive. I think what they're trying to do is viable. And, I think they're one of many "alternative fuel" car companies who, while not toppling GM, will carve a nice niche for itself. I can see Tesla being a company who becomes more of a licensing firm (licensing their intellectual property to other car companies) instead of a car manufacturer.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
We would go in on Saturday's for the free hand car wash -- and would ask for the 6 point inspection (also free) which basically got us fluids topped off, air in the tires and a measurement of the remaining brake life and tire life. If we even made a peep about the wipers, well, new wiper blades, no fee, no questions asked.
Although I had similar experiences at Audi, when I asked, they didn't seem quite as anxious to volunteer the free services or wiper blades, etc. But if you asked, they gave without any indication that they were anything less than happy to do so.
One last thing, our BMW dealer requires every employee in the service department to wear WHITE lab coats -- and you would think you were driving into a surgical theater when you went to the service dept.
This level of service and professionalism is impressive. Neither the Cadillac nor the Lexus dealers even come close. Audi also bested the Cadillac and Lexus dealers, but not the BMW store.
Of course our BMW store is owned by the former service manager -- which probably means his motto, sales through service is more than a phrase.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The steering did not get any better over time. I must admit, the car moved in prescribed directions, so it's not like there was no response. But there was no feedback - basically no feeling. Am I at the limit, can I go faster? Nothing.
The 2.0l turbo engine is fast and torquey, transmission is brisk and great. If there is any automatic I can have, that's the one. These are admittedly strongest points of the new F30, especially with gas mileage almost 20% higher than my car in same conditions - impressive. But... I take my E91 3.0l NA with manual back and no thanks to a new car any time soon. Hard to explain. I may change my mind over time, but not today.
Interior dials are really cheaper in feel and over time felt cheaper and cheaper. To describe the difference is between feeling a soft bump (E91) and hard ratchet (F30). The plastic on those also feels cheaper. I also just noticed that the sunroof liner was not motorized, as opposed to my wagon, but to be fair, I don't remember is E90 sedan had sunroof liner motorized or not. The wagon has a long panoramic sunroof, so the liner has to be moved with its own motor, as it is too far for the driver to reach when he wants to close it from the back. The non-Nav screen has 4:3 aspect ratio, the long panoramic ratio on my E91 Nav is so much better. From pictures it looks their optional nav screen is still panoramic, so you get a different screen than standard version.
The screen had a gremlin - today in the morning I got "No signal" message and my ipod started playing at fast forward mode (radio played just fine) - really weird.
I am absolutely NOT buying a new one and if, God forbid, I needed a new car, the shopping of other brands would definitely be on. Most likely into lower priced territory. There is no point of spending this much money if the product doesn't really deliver.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mercedes-Benz seems to be pretty serious about improving the "Sport" in their Sport Sedan. The 2013 C-Class has a new DI 3.5L V6 (248 hp/251 lb-ft torque) in their C300 4Matic.
They now have AGILITY CONTROL suspension that: "automatically adjusts the individual shock absorbers based on the road surface and the driver's current driving style. Valving inside each shock absorber automatically firms up during stronger body motions for sharper handling feedback and stability, and reduces the damping rates during gentler motions for a smoother, more composed ride."
The 4Matic AWD system retains a 45:55 front/rear torque split. It is a RWD based AWD chassis.
MB says 0 - 60 mph in 6.0 seconds w/ 7 speed automatic. The C-Class is handsomely styled with nice interior materials. This generation C is definitely not just a "cheap Mercedes."
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Jake has always bent over backwards for me....in both sales and service.
I consider us lucky to have two good dealers in the city.
At one time or another, I've interfaced with probably every luxury dealer in the city, for one reason or another.
The only one who was really quite bad was Thompson McConnell Cadillac. And, that was in regards to my late Mother's car (in which they made it a habit of fleecing her, and trying to fleece me).
C350 vs. A4/S4 vs. 335i
E350/550 vs. A6/S6 vs. 535i/550i
SLK vs. TTS vs. Z4 (although none of these are within a mile of a Boxster S)
That probably suits Mercedes OK. I don't think they are trying to compete with BMW and Audi for the serious driving enthusiast in these segments, as evidenced by no manual transmissions, a chassis emphasis on comfort rather than handling and slush box automatics vs. DSG's. But, to their credit, they are closing the gap a bit and making the choice of Mercedes for luxury not as much of a tradeoff. Unfortunately BMW appears to be inadvertently helping them to close this gap from the other (wrong) direction.
It felt like a slug. Now, this was a 2012. I think the tech, build quality and materials were anything that wasn't met or exceeded by the BMW or the Audi. Maybe the 2013 is significantly upgraded. But, for $55K (which is the MB's sticker price), I felt it was waaaayyyyy overpriced.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
In regards to your driving experience of the F30, like you, I like the drive-train the quick shifts of the 8 spd transmission keep the turbo 4 in the powerband all the time, the car "feels" much quicker over the E91. Also drive then E91 and F30 back to back you can "feel" the difference in the steering right away, the E90 is weighted and has a direct feel to it, the F30 does not, very "easy" and you are right very Buick like. BTW, the sport seats in any 3 series are the better seats for comfort , well next to the comfort seat of the 5, 6, 7 series and x5 and x6 comfort seats.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
My partner had an issue on his first service from the Nissan dealership. He responded to the survey, the GM of the dealership called Rick personally and they both spoke, at the end, the GM was grateful of Ricks honesty, the GM upgraded Rick to the Platinum elite level in their (the dealerships) service reward. This gave Rick two free services a year (basic) and 20% off all other services.
Good luck.
Of course the patient reader is told about the achievement of the "neat trick" of being more maneuverable, more powerful and more economical. The damn thing is safer, too -- it says so right in the ad copy.
The car is full of such amenities as Pandora radio, Bluetooth this and that, a rearview AND sideview cameras , sat-nav, a voice activated bidet, collision warning, lane departure warning, LaneWatch, a George Foreman fryer with GreaseBlock technology, and even an available 6-speed MANUAL shifter, and to motivate the thing, you can get a 278 horsepower V6 that actually reverses the greenhouse effect of SMOG (on a planetary basis) and (apparently) push-button start and hands-free ingress if you are so inclined.
Don't forget adaptive cruise control -- Honda didn't overlook this tech either.
I'm sure I've missed stuff, I mean, c'mon the ad is four pages in length and mostly uses a small font as if this is an article about the thing, not an ad.
OK, so I read this and I see the picture of the interior which approaches handsome, not Audi handsome but a far cry from any Honda I've ever been turned-off by (including my '12 Acura TL, which, while quite functional is hardly grin inducing when you get behind the wheel.)
Now, then, as to the title of my post -- I'm used to the Audi A8 getting the bells and whistles long before the A4 and usually before the A6 and way way way before Audi's "cousins" the VW clan. I'm at least aware that Cadillacs [used to] get features, functions and other high-end content (aka, "stuff you'd like to have in your Chevy or Pontiac or Buick, even) before the lesser aspirational models. I assume that the new ATS, CTS and XTS all have content that is, for the time being, exclusive to Caddy's -- wouldn't want a lowly Buick LaCrosse to have blind spot monitoring or adaptive cruise control or whatever gimcrack or gewgaw du jour marks a Premium Car's territory (these days).
The top o' the line from any car maker or "family" of cars usually gets the new tech, new toys, new safety kit or partridge in a pear tree BEFORE those poor cousins downstream, er, down-market.
So, this 2013 Accord gets content, tech, etc, etc, that certainly seems like prime beef from as recent as 2011 in many of the world's high buck, high zoot, high prestige makes. Hell, this Accord seems awfully close to being premium-car state-of-the-art insofar as content and even safety engineering (high strength steel, and "ACE II" a body structure engineered to evenly distribute full-frontal crash energy [or nudity] more effectively for instance). Now the engine choices are hardly revolutionary, but they do (claim) to now include direct injection powerplants, CVT transmissions with paddle-shifters (yawn) and "double-downshifting" conventional 6-speed autos with rev-matching.
My point is, shouldn't all this content, kit, performance and safety rigging be introduced FIRST in the Acura line? Then after two-years, one at-least, and only then be trickled DOWN to the Honda's?
What a world, what a world -- The Wicked Witch from the Wizard of OZ.
Drive it like you live.
DOH!
Homer.
V6 automatic.
Dynamically satisfying, to me.
- Ray
Currently a BMW 3 driver....
and for this piece: a 278 horsepower V6 that actually reverses the greenhouse effect of SMOG (on a planetary basis), not sure if you were being funny (as with the grill, a feature I actually liked!), but Volvo actually did this. They had a coating on the radiator that absorbed CO2 (or something bad) and converted it to water vapor or some such good thing. Not quite sure it was a net positive, but just might have been.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Just pandering to their traditional customer base. Like "organic" foods. Just wait until water vapor is bad too. Oh, wait, it is the most potent greenhouse driver...
The 2013 Accord may have all of those extra goodies, but I'm still betting that after I got behind the wheel, I'd still claim my 2002 Honda S2000 was the best car Honda ever built under the Honda label. Manual seats, no tilt, telescoping steering wheel, a standard two speaker stereo with about 12 watts. But when you pushed the start button and started driving it, none of that other stuff mattered.
Don't fall into the trap that thinking do-dads are what makes a car great. 278 horsepower to the front wheels and a weight balance that is still at least 60%+ nose heavy isn't going to get me all worked up over the new Accord, even if that standard George Foreman fryer has a self cleaning function.
In fairness, the new Accord may be the best FWD mid size, mid-priced family sedan on the market. And congratulations to Honda for bringing upscale technology and safety to the mass market. But what I think needs to trickle up to Acura is a new attitude. I said it 5 years ago, and it's more true today. Acura could use Honda engineering technology to build a couple of RWD 3 and 5 series competitors with class leading driving dynamics.
Sorry, I'm just grumpy because I'm about to dish out $75k for a new Boxster S or pre-owned 911 partly because Acura is too friggin boring to put out a $50k S3000 a decade after Honda showed they could kick [non-permissible content removed] with a $32k S2000. I've been hoping for some trickle up for a long time. Guess it's time to face the fact that it's probably not going to happen for my little niche.
Really, I have to vote the NSX as the best Honda car ever built under the Honda label...
I'm just grumpy because I'm about to dish out $75k for a new Boxster S or pre-owned 911 partly because
What happened to the Tesla? Also how does someone cross shop a Boxster S, 911 and Tesla?
Because they can...
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I suspect your vote is being cast from a distance that is pretty far away from the driver's seat of that car. I considered a pristine pre-owned 1996 NSX at the time I bought my new 2002 S2000 The $32k 240 horsepower S2000 equalled or exceeded the performance of the 270 hp NSX. Comparable acceleration, handling edge to the lighter, tighter S2000. The NSX had more prestige, but not more sports car guts or build quality. Not to mention that the NSX with 30k miles was $49k used and had been $85k+ new. Granted, the second generation NSX upped the performance slightly with the 290hp 3.2 liter engine, but the price of the NSX was never a remotely good sports car bang for the buck. On the other hand, the S2000 kicked the butt of everything within 50% of its price: base Boxster, Z3/4, SLK, 370Z. etc. Perhaps not in high torque, raw muscle car acceleration, or luxury do-dads, but in extraordinary engineering and visceral sports car performance and handling. I'll repeat that I think it was the best car to ever wear a Honda/Acura label.
What happened to the Tesla? Also how does someone cross shop a Boxster S, 911 and Tesla?
I like the "because I can" response, but then again, why not?? Same general price and with the Model S Performance Edition, it scoots 0 to 60 in 3.9 seconds. Plus, I like the green concept, even if I don't think human farting was responsible for Manhatten being under a mile of ice 16,000 years ago. But alas, after a test drive two weeks ago, I've just about crossed the Tesla off my list. The interior layout and material quality was too much like a high tech golf cart then a high tech luxury performance sedan. I'm going to get back over for another drive with my wife before I decide whether or not to ask for our deposit back, but as of right now, I told the electrician to hold off extending the 220 volt service in my garage (the damn plug is in the rear of the car).
On the other hand, I AM (but don't tell anyone) shilling for George Foreman's appliances.
:surprise:
As for the new NSX, as my baseball manager/coach tells me, I'm not getting any younger. I'm having a tough time waiting for the new Cayman to be unveiled at the LA auto show in 4 weeks. By the time Seinfeld and all of the other celebrities get the first batch of NSX's, I may be ready for one of those motorized chairs they advertise on late night TV. Besides, haven't seen the details, but I have this stinking feeling that Acura is only going to offer some kind of computer aided automatic transmission on the NSX. That - and about $300,000 - are what keeps me from considering the new Ferraris. As long as I'm not in a wheelchair, I want to use my left foot to depress a real clutch pedal. Kind of hard to do that on a Tesla, given that it's only one gear. But everything else, I'll shift my own thank you.
If my travel plans stay how they are, I should be in LA for the auto show and plan on being there on Dec 1st.
The next generation NSX doesn't do anything for me, I like the last generation, simple and straight forward...