Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

flightnurse · November 2012

$399/m crowd isn't the Auto Enthusiasts that BMW Club is looking for. They are looking for the people who ordered a 335i WIth Sport Package, M Package and who understands the car. The poser crowd is just worried that enough people see the in their strip down 328i. This is why the manual cars are few and far between these days.

robr2 · November 2012

This is correct, however, BMW does support the events, track days (bringing M cars to the event), clinic's and such.

That's great. I was just pointing out that your post inferred that the BMWCCA was part of BMW and that they should get credit for the support the club provides owners.

flightnurse · November 2012

Why would you do that, since we all know you secretly want a 335ix manual. BTW, if Infinti thought money could be made by a Infinti Club don't you think Nissan would have started one.

I just opened the Infiniti club of New England - who wants to join? Don't even need a car or driver license. Benefits include discounts at subway restaurants, courtyard by marriot and western union. $50 a year includes a yearly email with my best edmunds rants. If you act now I will throw in a set of dice valve stem caps.

flightnurse · November 2012

You are right, however, BMWCCA can't succeed with with BMW of USA support. This goes for BMW MOA (motorcycle club)

That's great. I was just pointing out that your post inferred that the BMWCCA was part of BMW and that they should get credit for the support the club provides owners.

victor23 · November 2012

Why would a non-enthusiast pick a $399 BMW lease over a $399 Camry purchase??

I work at a big hospital, and I would contend that for the vast majority of BMW and MB owners, they are accessories of their profession, just like a white coat or a certificate on the wall.

sweendogy · November 2012

Flight nothing secret about it- I said it so it's fact. Just like the BMW club plenty of Nissan, nico, g35 forums and clubs. Don't know of they are sponcered but they do have followings.

flightnurse · November 2012

interesting comment, i can tell you that the last hospital I worked at, (Level 1, Burn Center, Level 3 NICU) was a teaching hospital. Their were plenty of doc's with BMW's, MB and Audi's., none were the stripped down kind. Plenty of M3's, M5's M6's X6's and 7 series, Audi S5's and A8, MB AMG E and a couple of SLS's... The stripped sown 328i usually belonged to the nursing and ancillary staff.

flightnurse · November 2012

The only club that received support from Datsun/Nissan was the Z club, I believe that stopped.

victor23 · November 2012

The stripped sown 328i usually belonged to the nursing and ancillary staff

1. My point was not the trim itself (stripped down or top-of-the-line), rather the reason why people buy/lease BMW or MB instead of similarly priced or cheaper more practical alternatives. Their reasons have mostly nothing to do with being a car enthusiast.

2. Don't forget that the majority of doctors are not the real high-paid practicing doctors/professors; most are residents. Just fresh after obtaining their MD, single, in a 24/7 serfdom at a really miserable salary. Most are immigrants. However, the first thing the boy does after getting his MD, is to buy a BMW or MB, even if used. Especially if he is a 3rd-world-immigrant. To be perceived a part of the guild. To show off to his family.

sweendogy · November 2012

Just to clairify - your saying rich people are the ones buying new high end bmws And support staff buy cheaper "more affordable" bmws- interesting.

Any color preference?

sweendogy · November 2012

Yep my point-

plekto · November 2012

And then there's the doctor who drives the big SUV with the mud tires and winch on it. That hasn't been washed for a year. Just because he can.

:P

nyccarguy · November 2012

After getting mauled by a hurricane last week, those of us living in NY/NJ/CT are currently in the middle of a nasty nor'easter that has dumped over 5 inches of heavy, wet, snow on our area. It was the 1st time I've gotten to experience just how good the X-drive AWD system (and the DSC) in my 328xi really is. My car performed flawlessly. It took me 4 hours to get home from work today (31 miles). I saw many unprepared RWD Town Cars spinning out and quite a few FWD cars struggling to get up hills. My car didn't flinch. I was truly amazed at how well it took on the task.

stickguy · November 2012

I was actually hoping for a few inches on the road so I could check out the new AWD RDX I imagine it will do just fine.

habitat1 · November 2012

Glad to hear that you're doing well in the face of a double punch. The DC area was lucky to have missed the brunt of the hurricane, but I have a few friends in New Jersey and New York that are still without power and a colleague who's childhood home on Staten Island was wiped out. Fortunately he was able to evacuate his elderly mother and father in time, and they are physically safe, but emotionally devastated.

Puts ELLPS debates in perspective - and my condolences to anyone adversely affected.

flightnurse · November 2012

Victor thank you for the lesson in medical residency, I've been in the medical profession now 13 years and seen it all when it comes to residents and doctors and what they drive.

Why people lease BMW and MB is simple, because they want to and because they can. For residents/doctors it is a way to reward themselves for the work they put in to get where they are today. In some ways I do not blame them.

flightnurse · November 2012

Sweeny, where did I say support staff? Support staff would be CNA's and phlebotomist, transporters who do not make the kind of money to lease a BMW.

I said, ancillary staff. This would be Ultra Sound Tech, and Echo tech, Rad Techs and such,.

billyperksii · November 2012

I am keeping mine in the garage, all the salt and sand-yuck, not on my ZAINOED TL.

victor23 · November 2012

I've been in the medical profession now 13 years and seen it all ... people lease BMW and MB ... because they want to and because they can... to reward themselves for the work ...I do not blame them.

Nobody doubts your credentials, just looking at your userID. You've seen, but you are not telling anybody. So, I took pains to post the story. Of course people buy when they want to and can, nothing wrong with that, and thanks for the lesson in economics, too. Nobody ever blamed anybody for anything, and, BTW, thanks for all hard work.

The only message I am trying to convey (third time already) is just that the reasons for buying mostly don't have anything to do with the process of driving. BMW and MB are rarely used as "enthusiast's car", no matter the trim. Just to remind: the original question (which I was trying to answer) was "Why would a non-enthusiast pick a BMW lease over a Camry purchase".

sweendogy · November 2012

I'm interested to what colors the medical communities gravitate towards-

habitat1 · November 2012

Hemoglobin Red. Porsche will do it for an extra $4,000.

victor23 · November 2012

MRI non-metallic

Kirstie_H · November 2012

"Why would a non-enthusiast pick a BMW lease over a Camry purchase".

Nicer car for the same monthly payment? Some people come to the conclusion that they're always going to have a car payment, or at least for the foreseeable future. And, if they're not going to exceed the mileage limit, a lease could be a good option for them.

I have driven a whopping total of 1,650 miles since January 1 of this year. I don't have a car payment, but if I were to take on one, I would consider a lease instead of purchase, set a budget, and get the car that I believe I'd most enjoy for that payment.

habitat1 · November 2012

I have driven a whopping total of 1,650 miles since January 1 of this year.

Sounds like you are a candidate for ZipCar? Or BikeShare? Perhaps with a supplemental Vespa? When you calculate all of the costs of automobile ownership - insurance, maintenance, depreciation, etc. - the cost per mile can get pretty extreme if you only drive 150 miles a month. Plus the cost of underground parking if you happen to live in an apartment or condo in an urban area like Washington DC.

sweendogy · November 2012

1650 miles, wow edmunds must be close to home.

buya · November 2012

Why would non-enthusiast pick a BMW lease over a Camry purchase?

Don't take things too seriously. Crossed and rebuke is ok. Read again other posts some contributors wrote and you'll see getting all worked up is waste of your precious health.

There're all sorts of reasons why people lease BMW over Camry. Top reasons would be status symbol and the fact that it's a damned good car! Leasing takes away the troubles of trying to register your credit card with the dealership for all the little annoying things that will come after the warranty expires, so you don't have to remember to bring the card. Of course there're those who flagged themselves as enthusiasts and know cars in and out, even rebuilding one from scratch. That in itself is bragging. It is as snotty as buying performance cars for their price and prestige.

Didn't check who posted the original question and didn't care either. The comparison is flawed because Camry is a sedan not in the same class as BMW, which is known for performance. The question looked sarcastic, and it looked like "poor people who can only afford to buy Camry should not have a big head of trying to lease into rich people's world and drive a BMW". I recent these forms for communications and views because these are the foundation that build to the poor children from heritage had to act apologetic and feel guilty -- for absolutely NO reasons. Money itself is not a crime, people make things what they are.

For someone who know nothing about the mechanics of cars, I like performance cars. I like BMW but I won't buy another one simply because it's a BMW - the badge. The question would be more of a question of curiosity if it were "why would a life long high-end performance cars owner choose to buy a Camry?" I can tell you it's not for performance. Camry is a reliable car for daily commute if you take care of it's basic needs, but it's definitely not a car you would choose to do long distance. I drove a loaner out of town once and I can attest to that!

MB is increasingly unreliable, and if I buy another one of them it's only for the name and not even for nostalgic. Yep, status. But which I don't care!

Obvious answer why BMW over Camry is performance. To a lot of people it's the badge.

andys120 · November 2012

Why would non-enthusiast pick a BMW lease over a Camry purchase?

I am an enthusiast and when my non-enthusiast friends (who tend to drive pickups and Subarus) ride me about getting a "Beemer" I tell them it cost about the same as a new loaded Camry ($26K).

If there hadn't been a good supply of nice second-hand BMWs available at a BMW specialist near me I'd probably be driving something else. Buying used is a good solution for those who would rather own than lease, they are very well made and the depreciation curve is pretty steep. My 4 y/o 528iA (44K) cost about 50% of the new price and it's such a good car that I recently bought another Reitzle-era BMW, an 11 y/o 330Ci cabriolet (78K)
which cost me about the same as a new Ford Focus ($13K).

I'll admit that part of it's badge snobbery but there's also build-quality and wonderful RWD driving pleasure. :shades:

graphicguy · November 2012

Interesting discussion. I don't know why others buy what they buy. I know I buy my cars because I like to drive them....sometimes like a banshee with their fur on fire.

Used to autox quite a bit. And, had an old ratty cobbled together Mustang which went to the local track (owned with a buddy) to do nothing but 1/4 runs.

Does that make me a driving enthusiast? I dunno? Maybe!

What it does do is give me an appreciation of a finely engineered car capable of doing things other cars aren't capable of doing. To some, a Camry is the kind of drive that appeals to people (lots of them, given how many they sell). To others, a BMW or Audi or Porsche evokes the driving experience they desire.

Frankly, I don't know why people buy what they buy. I know I do like the driving experience that BMW and Audi offers....over just about anything else.

That said, I also have a ratty 200K mile Accord sitting in my driveway. I appreciate it for what it is, too.....just for different reasons.

Some view cars as necessary evils. For the vast majority of us, a car certainly isn't a good financial investment. Some buy cars because of their MPG (i.e. Prius types). Some buy because of utilitarian reasons (why else would you buy an SUV?).

Only the person pulling pictures of dead presidents out of their wallets knows their motivation for buying what they buy.

Kirstie_H · November 2012

We live in a way outer suburb, 3-car garage, so parking's not an issue. I have considered getting rid of my vehicle - we have two others - but one of the others no-go-in-snow. So, I'd be stranded in the house when my S.O. takes the truck to the airport (travels a lot for biz). But, the idea of just having a Vespa holds some appeal.

Sween - Edmunds HQ is a couple thousand miles away from me. I staff the greater Kansas City metro area office.

m6user · November 2012

Frankly, I don't know why people buy what they buy.

Finally(and thankfully) someone that does not claim to know everything about why people buy cars and how much they can afford. +1.

billyperksii · November 2012

Just to add fuel to the fire- off topic a bit.
My brother in-law visted us several weeks ago and had a friend who owned Camry. I was in my garage detailing my TL and he came by admiring my car.He said, how many cyclinders, I said six, he said he just bougth a 8 cyclinder Camry. I said eight, he said yes, eight.
I left it at that, i did not want to break is heart.

sweendogy · November 2012

Love the fact a guy with an 8cyl Camry was Admiring the TL. Now that's funny.

"good post"

billyperksii · November 2012

Probably he would have jumped out of his pants if I was polishing up a "G"- we wouldnt want that, would we?

ctl · November 2012

+1.

I am 45, drive a 1997 Camry every day. I do like cars (why I am here reading) but my old friend has served my need/commute well.

My portfolio statement told me I can buy a fleet of 1000+ of them if I want, or 150+ or them a year from my paycheck. But because I am not driving a BMW, must because I cannot afford it... shrug and smile every time I read that broken record. Let's respect all people, whether or not they appear to have money.

> Finally(and thankfully) someone that does not claim to know everything about why people buy cars and how much they can afford. +1.

buya · November 2012

So he just bought an 8 (eight) cylinder Camry, eh? Well, then who wouldn't be admiring your 6-cyl TL?

ivan_99 · November 2012

I think he was admiring the TL because he thought it had 12 cyl

billyperksii · November 2012

You got it all wrong- he thought at first glance it was a Aston Martin Vanquish V12.

sweendogy · November 2012

Maybe he thought it was an chrome aardvark gt

habitat1 · November 2012

...but for anybody that may be thinking about a 335i that can find a little spare change in their sofa cushions, how about a brand new BMW M3 Coupe for under $59,000? Have to order the car by the end of November to get the extra $1,500 holiday credit.

I just got a call from a dealer that offered to order a 2013 M3 at invoice. From that, subtract $1,500 holiday discount, $750 loyalty discount and anything else you qualify for. Mine (well equipped) would end up with an MSRP of $70.5k+/-and a final net price of just under $63k. However, if you take it easy on options, a base M3, plus navigation, heated seats, metallic paint and BMW Apps comes in at an MSRP of $64,945. Invoice is $59,900 and final price after only the holiday discount alone is $58,400. Hard to call that cheap, but with 335is's and even plain 335i's stickering for over $60,000, it looks like a relative bargain.

I test drove a 2013 M3 this past Saturday. Six speed manual of course. I'm sure the upcoming redesigned 2014 model with a 450 hp turbocharged 6 cylinder engine will be a great car. But there is something to be said for a 414 hp, 8,300 rpm redline, naturally aspirated V8. I expect the 2014 will be viewed as BMW's version of Porsche going away from the air-cooled 911 in 1999. Or Johnny Damon going from the Red Sox to the Yankees. Lost the hair, lost the soul.

flightnurse · November 2012

I didn't like it that BMW dropped a V8 in the M3, when it comes to tradition they could have worked with a turbo 6, which they will do now.

But there is something to be said for a 414 hp, 8,300 rpm redline, naturally aspirated V8. I expect the 2014 will be viewed as BMW's version of Porsche going away from the air-cooled 911 in 1999. Or Johnny Damon going from the Red Sox to the Yankees. Lost the hair, lost the soul.

sweendogy · November 2012

" Or Johnny Damon going from the Red Sox to the Yankees. Lost the hair, lost the soul. " didn't Damon win a ring with the yanks in 09?

Maybe joe Namath to the rams.

nyccarguy · November 2012

Yes he did sween! Excellent point. He also got the 1st hit @ The New Stadium.

habitat1 · November 2012

Never said Johnny Damon lost his talent. Just his soul.

Old Porsche enthusiasts would say the same thing about the 991 model 911 vs. the old 993 model.

sweendogy · November 2012

The porshe thing i get- but My counter would be he hit 5 more hrs a year, and had the same RBI and Obp - might of lost the "idiot" and stash - but production same or better.

I would of went with Namath to the rams - or Jordan to the wizards.

Any deals on new m3 sedan?

habitat1 · November 2012

There is no M3 sedan, any more. BMW killed it for 2013 MY.

graphicguy · November 2012

WOW....M3 for under $60K....... :surprise:

I'm not in the market now, but will be in the next 18-24 mos when the warranty runs out on my 335i. Too bad that deal won't be available then. I'd be mighty tempted to jump on it.

habitat1 · November 2012

The 2013 M3 deal won't be available then, but the 4-series coupe will be. And from what a friend showed me yesterday on a spy photo site, it looks like it is going to be a winner.

sweendogy · November 2012

Just got an alert from Acura to check out the 2013 tsx- msrp with shipping on the v6 is 40k dollars - now I know not one will leave the lot at this price but really. The standard tl with the nav package is exactly the same price- seems stupid-

graphicguy · November 2012

zeya....you do realize you responded to a post that's 10 years old. :confuse:

habitat1 · November 2012

Graphicguy, do you realize you responded to something that is clearly spam? Hopefully, you didn't click on the "pregnancy miracle" link as the bottom.

Perhaps our Host can permanently remove this??

For all of the engineering technology that goes into a BMW M3, I would like nothing more than to see some of that brainpower go into tracing, catching and castrating spammers.

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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