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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    edited December 2012
    So I took my 2011 328xi in for service and was hoping to get an F30 328i or X3 with the 4cyl turbo as a loaner car. As luck would have it, the loaner I did get is a 2011 E90 335d. I've never driven a diesel before and I am impressed to say the least.

    You definitely hear the diesel clatter at idle and at low speeds, but the 335d doesn't stay at low speeds for very long. Passing power in this car at highway speeds is completely 100% effortless. The engine is smooth at high speeds and you'd be hard pressed to notice you are driving a diesel on the highway.

    Now the bad part. I attribute this to the tires that have almost 39,000 miles on them and are close to shot, the car's 425 lb ft of torque, and the rain slicked roads, but I saw the stability control light flicker a lot more than it does in my car. I really don't know if I can do without AWD here in Connecticut.

    The dealer I bought my car from and service it at (not the closest) is about 34 miles away from my house. On the 98% highway drive, I averaged over 35 mpg doing well over 70 most of the way.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,631
    I love diesels, and had quite a bit of seat time in one while my son was in HS (which shocking to me was 4 years ago). Huge torque. Still pretty slow though. And MPG was nothing to write home about. Did have 4WD, though all 4 were on the same axle...

    I guess being a 26' Box Ryder Freightliner was a bit different than a 335d. Though I know the trunk on my was way bigger!

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    I know all about those. Our truck we have for deliveries is a 2006 Mitsubishi FUSO FE180 with a 4 cyl turbo diesel and 6 speed Automatic, & 14' box. Its not that fast and get crummy gas mileage:)

    Gonna give the 335d a workout on my way into work tomorrow AM:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,631
    I drove one of those cabover citivans a couple of times (turns out, the big boy was too big to get through the drop off at the airport). Nasty little beasts. Bouncy, rough, and quite unnerving just hanging out over the front axle. Just like an old VW bus, where your legs were the crumple zone.

    You should get a Sprinter. I had one of those once, and that baby drove nice.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    A couple of my customers have Sprinters and they Love 'Em. They make fantastic plumbing trucks. Too small & narrow for what I need it for though:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Too bad BMW killed the 335d in 2011, and even worse, never offered a 535d here. I think that would have made a lot of sense.

    We get 30+ mpg on a highway cruise with our 5,300 lb X5d. Friend of mine made it back and forth from DC to Wilmington NC last summer in his 335d averaging 40+ mpg. According to him, the actual real world fuel economy of the 335d is considerably better than the new 328i (which his sister got, since the 335d isn't available). That coincides with our experience - in similar heavy city mix, our X5d gets 21 mpg and our 2005 MDX gets under 14 mpg. That's a real world 7+ mpg, 50%+ advantage, even though the EPA city ratings are only 2 mpg / 12% better (19 vs. 17).

    Now if I could only get my hands on one of these: M550d Sedan
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,189
    I'm amazed that a dealer would loan a diesel in the first place, never mind one with 39k miles and with bald tires no less - I don't think I've ever been in a rental car with more then 25k miles - and dealer loaners I've seen are usually under 10k.

    I also have never driven a d- and would like no one day - one with that power and heritage must be cool.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm amazed that a dealer would loan a diesel in the first place, never mind one with 39k miles and with bald tires no less

    Ha! You should have seen what I got a couple of years ago. Took my Acura in to my hometown Acura/Mercedes dealer for what was supposed to be an alignment and state inspection. Turned out that I had a couple of bent rims and the dealer needed to keep the car overnight. All regular loaners were out, so the owner gave me his 1980's vintage, pristinely restored 300SDL with about 200k miles on the odometer. Talk about a tank. It wasn't very quick, but it could have gone through a brick wall without slowing down.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    Does Porsche have a European Delivery option? If so take it...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    Even just putting the gas mileage aside as an added bonus, the power that the 335d & your X5d produce is phenomenal.

    I would consider the cost differential as an engine upgrade. I don't think I could justify it for the fuel economy savings alone.

    I drove the car this AM to work and sat in some heavy traffic when I first got on I95, then on The Bruckner closer to my store, plus some crazy slow going on the local streets here in the Bronx. I've travelled a little over 65 miles so far & even with the traffic, my avg mpg is between 30 & 31. That is still a solid 10 mpg over what I average with the 328xi.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    They do, but it costs EXTRA unlike BMW's ED Program.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,035
    Does Porsche have a European Delivery option? If so take it...

    They do. Luckily this year they stopped charging extra to pick it up at the factory but other than transportation from the airport to the factory and a tour, they don't offer some of the benefits like Volvo and BMW - discounts, plane fare, hotel, meals, et al.

    But it's a Porsche....
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,986
    Usually loaners do have low mileage on them & the dealers sell em off after 10K or so miles. Maybe this was some sort of "program car" or "BMW executive driven car" that they picked up on the cheap. I'll ask later.

    How much attention does the dealer pay to its loaner fleet? Someone turned the car in before me & the girl at the desk just checks the gas gauge. I'm sure nobody notices or bothers to tell if there is a problem.

    I happen to NOTICE EVERYTHING when it comes to cars. I checked the tires just now (it was dark when I left this AM) & the rears are down to the wear bars. Fronts still have some life left in them. I think the loaner needs an alignment & and also has a front left tire out of balance.

    My MOM once got a Cayenne S loaner from the dealer that was a 2008 with over 60K.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    The reason why a 535d was not imported was simple, price. A fully loaded 535d would run close to $65K. The 335d was just something that BMW wanted to see if it would sell, it did, but BMW never fully suppoted it as far as ad time. BMW will be importing a diesel in the 3 series as well as X3 started in the first quarter of 2013, MB will be importing a GLK230 (a diesel) that is suppose to get 40 MPG on the highway and make 395lbs of torque.

    Now Habitat when you went to the BMW dealer to get your X5 were you in the market for the X5d or did the fact that BMW was offering the Eco credit which brought down the price of the X5d to the price of a X5 the factor you got the diesel over the gasser?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    Not really, it is up to the dealer on what they use as rentals. I have had 530i, 325i wagon, as well as 330 convertible. I decided once to take my BMW to Scottsdale BMW and the guy ahead of me was given 750i as a loaner. So if I had gotten to the dealer 5 minutes earlier I would have had that 750i.

    I agree that cars should not have "worn" tires, but I can tell you those 335d have a easy time wearing out rear tires, all of the car mag's who had a 335d as one for a year stated that with 415 lbs of torque eat rear tires...
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    Oh right, forgot about that.... It's a Porsche... :confuse:
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    LOL !!!! I had a 1987 300SDL in 1989 bought it from San Diego MB, it had 17K miles on it. To this date it was the BEST highway cruiser I have owned. As you stated it was quick off the line, however, once you got above 10 mph it picked up steam, use to drive it to vegas from San Diego, on highway 15 I would put the car on cruise at 90 (that was the unofficial speed limited between Barstow and Vegas.) I would average 22 mpg and you couldn't tell you were going that fast. The leg room in the back was incredible and never had a complaint about it. The W126's and W140s were tanks, built better then the current W221.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,035
    What I meant is that if one is willing to pay for a Porsche (with the associated over the top option prices), then the cost of flying one's self to Europe isn't a big deal.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    Same thing can be said about BMW,s when one orders a 650 4dr coupe, costing 103K, I think they can afford to fly to Europe too.

    But the whole Ed program is about driving YOUR car in europe and having it shipped back.. The discount is nice too. The 7 series that we build was priced $83K, that was before the ED price, which was $5K less so $77K would have been the price (special note, for 2013, the M sport package is free on the 740i, BMW will give you credit if you order it.) Yes, BMW goes give air fare but the restrictions on it aren't to my liking, and you can not upgrade using miles to first class or even Business.

    Also doesn't matter if you can afford 103K or $77K for a car, saving 5K on the car is a great program.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,035
    But the whole Ed program is about driving YOUR car in europe and having it shipped back.. The discount is nice too.

    Oh I completely understand that although I once had a co-worker take a side trip to Sweden to take delivery of a Volvo for a friend who didn't want the trip.

    I've looked at the Volvo program as that is the one I would most likely take advantage of.

    Their discount is about 8% off of MSRP. They include 2 round trip tickets tickets, one night's stay at a hotel in Gotheburg, transportation between the airport/hotel/delivery center and a Swedish meatball lunch at the delivery center.

    Sometimes, Volvo might have extra vehicles ready for factory delivery without an order and will toss some extra incentives on them. Further Volvo allows the buyer to pick and choose options outside of packages on a Euro delivery.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,549
    edited December 2012
    The only issue is Volvos sell at deep discounts with large amounts of incentives (at least recently) thrown at them, especially in form of dealer's incentives. Apples to apples, you may get actually lower price here than ED fixed price, so the benefit is the fare, one hotel night, dinner and "free rental" for two weeks. One could assign a price for it, so a comparison can be made whether it still is a good deal or not, moneywise. I suspect it's a financial break even plus experience and extra expense for the rest of the trip.

    I had similar thing on BMW - the dealer was not as eager to discount on ED, there was additional coupon on US delivery, so ED price was not really as attractive, basically about same, maybe $1000 lower than US street (final) price and I still had to buy a ticket. I also did not get best financing offer, either, as I had to rely on dealer's offer (no bank will give you a loan on car without a title, it is the dealer who needs to vouch for you). The terms weren't bad, just not "best" I refinanced the car right out of the US Customs' gates (at the time I booked 3.8%, refinanced into 2.6% APR).

    But experience is what counts. 138 mph on the autobahn (could not quite get to the top speed, not enough of runway), Rhein river castles, Aachen and Cologne Cathedrals... PLUS Performance Center delivery (one night w/ dinner and breakfast at Sheraton, half day at their circuits in Spartanburg). What was even better, I took the US (Spartanburg) delivery on December 23. Talking about perfect timing. :D :shades:

    Considering that I'm fussy on options (really fussy), I'd special order regardless, which would limit my barganinig power anyway.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,035
    The only issue is Volvos sell at deep discounts with large amounts of incentives (at least recently) thrown at them, especially in form of dealer's incentives.

    I realize that price wise, buying from the dealer is probably a better price. But if you wanted to go to Europe and planned on buying a Volvo, it might be a better deal.

    I had similar thing on BMW - the dealer was not as eager to discount on ED...

    Another positive on the Volvo ED - they have a published price that can't be negotiated. The dealer is paid a flat amount by Volvo to process the paperwork and prep for delivery once it reaches them. With all the other ED programs, one still has to negotiate the price.

    Considering that I'm fussy on options (really fussy), I'd special order regardless, which would limit my barganinig power anyway.

    In reality, ordering normally affords greater bargaining power. Dealer doesn't have to worry about paying floor plan on the car - it's punched as a sold unit ASAP. Selling it at invoice is probably more profitable for the dealer than selling over invoice on stock units.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Now Habitat when you went to the BMW dealer to get your X5 were you in the market for the X5d or did the fact that BMW was offering the Eco credit which brought down the price of the X5d to the price of a X5 the factor you got the diesel over the gasser?

    I had an interest in the X5d for at least a year or two. The fact that they increased the eco credit to $4,500 in June, just as my daughter was getting her driving license and we could use another vehicle was good timing all around. If I hadn't gone for the X5d, it wouldn't have been a X5 3.5i instead. It would have been a Cayenne V6 6-speed manual. Had a deal to get one of those at a great discount that put it about the same pice as the X5d.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,549
    edited December 2012
    It certainly doesn't look that way in my experiences. Instant gratification seems to be most powerful motivator. It is strenghtened by dealer's incentives based on deliveries in next month. If you make an order to be filled two or three months from now, the dealer cannot factor any marketing support money that is expiring in two weeks. So you can get a price closer to nominal invoice, but if there is grand or two of dealer incentive (not consumer rebate) expiring last day of current month, that is not going to be part of the equation in special order.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    but if there is grand or two of dealer incentive (not consumer rebate) expiring last day of current month, that is not going to be part of the equation in special order.


    Think that may be case by case. My BMW dealer claims I can get the same near invoice deal from them on a custom order BMW M3 if I order by 12/31 as they would be able to give me on one of two that they have in stock on the showroom floor. I would still get the holiday and loyalty credits that expire 1/1/13, even though I wouldn't be picking up the car until March. They are still trying to tempt me away from a Porsche and I have to admit, the price on a new 2013 M3 is a heck of a deal, especially given the opportunity to custom order and pick up in Spartanburg.
  • Go to the European Delivery forum on bimmerfest. There are plenty of dealers that will negotiate up from European Delivery INVOICE pricing. You can usually order a car from between $500 and $1000 over ED invoice. This translates to about an11% discount from US MSRP.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    That is correct, ED prices are negotiable....except, I do not believe there is any ED discount on "M" models, and obviously ED is not available on the BMW models made here in the US (X3/5/6). In addition, on some hard to get models, as in the initial introduction of the three series hardtop convertible, an ED order does not get charged against the dealers allocation, so they view it as an bonus sale and will be more aggressive in discounting ED than a US delivery car out of their limited allocation.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    I had similar thing on BMW - the dealer was not as eager to discount on ED, there was additional coupon on US delivery, so ED price was not really as attractive, basically about same, maybe $1000 lower than US street (final) price and I still had to buy a ticket.

    When I did my ED, I was able to my car under invoice, plus given airfare, one night hotel. I do remember that the dealer was happy to do the ED for me since the ZHP cars were limited production and at the time, my car was now counted in their regular allotment. Now times might have changed and ED cars might be counted towards dealers allotment. But I remember last year when looking at the 5 and 7 series we were told that ED cars were not counted as part of their allotment. I haven't looked at Volvo's or MB's programs, but I do like the fact with BMW you can set up delivery at their performance center and have fun on their track there.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    So basically price won out?
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,687
    It certainly doesn't look that way in my experiences. Instant gratification seems to be most powerful motivator. It is strenghtened by dealer's incentives based on deliveries in next month. If you make an order to be filled two or three months from now

    This is the biggest issue when buying a car, most people wait until they need a car now, instead of planning for it. my neighbor bought a new 2013 335i. He traded in his 2007, when I asked if he thought about the ED program he said, Yes, but he couldn't wait the 6 months time to get his car here stateside. I do know BMW will work with you if your car is leased through BMWFS in allowing you to keep your current car until the new one arrives.
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