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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    You seem to be the leading Odyssey basher here on this board. My question is: If you are so secure and happy with your DCX van then why bother to constantly bash the Odyssey? Move on and be happy with your life.

    You stated that DCX actually had an increase in sales for model year 2005, minivans only. Well, if Toyota or Honda gave away their vans as did DCX, Ford and GM then they would be far and away the leader in minivan sales.

    As the owner of seven different minivans over the past 22 years I feel more qualified than most here to make quality judgments. Yet, when I gave an HONEST appraisal of a Grand Caravan I owned I was bashed. I am going to post my list from worst to best just to get your juices flowing:

    VW Vanagon
    Grand Caravan
    Nissan Van
    Trans Sport
    Windstar
    Silhouette
    Odyssey
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    What does a used 2005 Odyssey bring, same mileage?

    I would suspect these are rentals from either Dollar or Thrifty's fleet but still typical of a used DCX mini. Throwing them into the rental fleets diminishes their resale. Also, DCX's reputation for less than stellar quality adds to their being worth little in resale.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Excellent Post Hayneldan!!

    JD Powers has all sorts of ratings, I wouldn't be surprise if Honda is ranked high in a few of them though...like first 30 days of ownership, etc.... I've never reviewed the details.

    Looks like JD Powers is really close to my office in Troy Michigan though. Be cool to swing by, see what literature they have available.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    My first (and last) Chrysler minivan had over $6,000 in repairs during the three years I owned the piece of junk:

    Two transmissions
    A steering rack
    Two a/c compressors

    And those were just the major items. Fortunately I had a warranty.

    My Olds Silhouette, kept almost three years to the day and 52,000 miles, had just about $0 in repairs except for rear brake cylinders worth less than $200.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    CR no longer can recommend DCX because their frequency of repair has dropped way off.

    Which issue of CR is this? The last I know was March 2005 where it was recommended by CR? Maybe that issue is out of date by now?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    You seem to be the leading Odyssey basher here on this board. My question is: If you are so secure and happy with your DCX van then why bother to constantly bash the Odyssey? Move on and be happy with your life.

    When people without proof, just opinion start bashing DCX with "always at dealership" or "engine wheezes" or "worst quality" or "turd" or "piece of junk" or "Boy, this is a noisy piece of c**p".

    It's good to bash back, not take it, especially when the Ody aren't any better, if anything worst based on recalls, and problems/issues list here and on other sites.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    My first (and last) Chrysler minivan had over $6,000 in repairs during the three years I owned the piece of junk:


    And there are many Ody owners that feel the same about their vehicles! One guy just recently with a $5000 tranny bill (but under warranty thank god!).
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    I just went to the Chrysler Town and Country Price paid board to find out what someone has paid for a 2006 T&C (not Dodge) with similar features to a 2006 Odyssey EX-L. I did not see any. Would some one please say how much they paid for a loaded 2006 T&C (leather, moon roof, side air bags, dual power doors.....). we will ignore the differences in engine, trans, stability control etc. This seems to be the big issue with the DC vans is that they are so so much less expensive than the Hondas, but just as good.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    Look at the 2006 Buyers Guide or CR Online. Seems that DCX has an increasing frequency of repair lately. I never knew it had gotten better than the piece of junk I got new as a result of arbitration over an even worse Intrepid.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    You make broad, unsubstantiated statements but claim that is what is wrong with everyone else. I gave FIRST HAND experience. I just read a Canadian review of the Odyssey which claims the Odyssey is as close to perfection as can be expected from a minivan.

    Have you ever ridden in, driven or owned a 2005 or 2006 Odyssey? If my suspicions are correct the answer would be NO. I have driven many 2005 and 2006 DCX vans both before and after purchasing my 2006 Odyssey. Basically the DCX vans are ok. They seem free from squeaks and rattles, my main peeve. Compared to the Odyssey they are coarse, noisy and the handling is not even close. Based on my personal experience their reliability and quality stinks.

    I have said many times over they years I have posted on various Edmunds boards that we should just make factual comments about the vehicles with which we have first hand knowledge.
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    A fine example of first hand, personal experience.

    Wait to be bashed by the non-facters on here. The idea is to fire a shotgun blast at Odyssey and hope it hits. I am glad they are such rotten shots. :)
  • anybody who has had to have their DCX transmission repaired/replaced should read this article. Unscrupulous trans shops/dealers see a great profit for replacing rather than fixing an transmission cost effectively. http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    anybody who has had to have their DCX transmission repaired/replaced should read this article. Unscrupulous trans shops/dealers see a great profit for replacing rather than fixing an transmission cost effectively.

    Oh I tought they never broke. :P Why would anyone bring it in???LOL OK this is a DCX vs Honda van forum. Edmunds already has a place setup for the dreaded transmission issues on DCX vans look here!!

    link title

    or here

    http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/CHRYSLER-ultradrive.htm

    Yes Honda's 5 speed had a problem with second gear cooling. They have extended the warrenty to 100K(unlimited years as far as I can tell) miles not bad. Don't think DCX will be doing that/they never did in the past and the early A604 was bad the newer tranny(renamed 41TE to protect the guilty) is much more reliable(since about 1998)but suffers from poor shifting and whining noise!!
  • artgpoartgpo Posts: 483
    "but suffers from poor shifting and whining noise!! "
    That noise are the owners. :P
  • I haven't yet driven a minivan that handles with as much aplomb and revs with the finesse that the J35 engine in the 05 Honda Odyssey does.

    During geophysics field school, we took some 2004 Dodge Grand Caravans on our trip. At high rpm, the engine sounds like crap (raspy and weak) and the power drops off rapidly. The same thing happens to my mom's Intrepid. They feel anaemic going up hills. I had to try and redline the thing just to pass on the highway, and I only had one other person in the van. It had the 3.3L V6. What a terrible engine. I also averaged 11.4L/100km on the highway (measured at the gas station after a refuel when I started at full at the beginning of the trip, congruent with the trip computer that told me 11.2L/100km). That's abysmal.

    The Odyssey I drove, on the other hand, easily revs all the way up to it's 6300rpm redline with ease, and sounds good doing it. It's one fast van and handles almost like a car. If I had to buy a van, I'd get it. I didn't get a chance to drive it far enough to test the fuel economy though.
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    Yes Honda's 5 speed had a problem with second gear cooling. They have extended the warrenty to 100K(unlimited years as far as I can tell) miles not bad

    Isn't DC going back to the 3 year 36K mile warranty for 2006. Must have been spending too much on the longer warranty.
  • I also forgot to mention that if you look at a dyno chart of the Odyssey, the torque curve is relatively flat. It felt that way when I drove it.

    From the way the Grand Caravan drove, I suspect the torque curve would look like an inverted U. I hate how it has NO top end power to speak of. And the stupid transmission won't even let you hit the redline. The Odyssey will let you cross the redline until you hit the rev limiter (like all vehicles SHOULD, because electronic nannies aren't necessary).
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    During geophysics field school, we took some 2004 Dodge Grand Caravans on our trip. At high rpm, the engine sounds like crap (raspy and weak) and the power drops off rapidly. The same thing happens to my mom's Intrepid. They feel anaemic going up hills. I had to try and redline the thing just to pass on the highway, and I only had one other person in the van. It had the 3.3L V6. What a terrible engine.
    As I noted in an earlier post where I used the word "prehistoric", the 3.3 L engine was introduced in 1990 and was an archaic design at that time 15 years ago. I had one in a 1992 Grand Caravan, and no, they are not designed to rev. Maybe that is why some DC owners berate the Odyssey for having to rev the Honda engine high to get to the torque and HP max. Their experience is that high RPM is bad. If you drive the Honda you realize that the engine revs happily as it is designed to. I know that I was always concerned about how fast the engine was going in my Grand Caravan. This is not something that I worry about in my Odyssey. Also note that most DC vans come with the 3.3 L engine not the 3.8 L engine, while all Odysseys come with the 3.5 L engine.
    Rumor has it that the next generation of DC vans will have a significantly more powerful engine and a 5 speed auto. Why would they do that if there is nothing wrong with the current version and what will that do to the already abysmal resale values of this generation vans?
  • socalawdsocalawd Posts: 542
    Well 21000+ miles on this Ody and no real problems. Man I think they like this van as much as me!! ;)When is the last time you had car mag guys saying they don't want to give up a minivan!!

    link title
  • I agree with that. My mom's Intrepid is the 3.5L. It hasn't had any major problems except for a bad spark plug and the coolant thermostat sticking causing an overheat, but it just doesn't feel smooth to drive.

    In my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of auto enthusiasts, Honda still makes the smoothest, nicest revving engines in the world. The power output is decent too (255hp in the 05 Odyssey). That van is capable of 0-60 in 7.8s. That's extremely fast for a van. Plus the fact that the J-series engine blocks don't weigh a lot either.

    The 3.8L engine available in the Caravans might be stronger than the 3.3L, but it's still CRUDE revving and unrefined. Plus that huge displacement weighs more and offsets the handling even worse.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Rumor has it that the next generation of DC vans will have a significantly more powerful engine and a 5 speed auto. Why would they do that if there is nothing wrong with the current version and what will that do to the already abysmal resale values of this generation vans?

    DCX would be smart to make the 3.8L V-6 the base V-6 in the Grand Caravan, the 3.3L V-6 the standard in the swb Caravan, and offer the 3.5L out of the Pacifica/300M/300 cars that offers 250 hp. That would be a real competitor.
  • fljoslinfljoslin Posts: 237
    DCX would be smart to make the 3.8L V-6 the base V-6 in the Grand Caravan, the 3.3L V-6 the standard in the swb Caravan, and offer the 3.5L out of the Pacifica/300M/300 cars that offers 250 hp. That would be a real competitor
    I think that DC needs to junk the 3.3 and 3.8 L engines. The 3.2 or 3.5 should be the base engine. That would certainly help DC to even things up with regards to power. But, what will happen to the mileage then? My wife has a 2005 Pacifica with the 3.5 L engine and gets 15 mpg in town. I have a 1999 Intrepid with the 3.2 L engine and get 20-22 mpg in town. Notice the Intrepid is significantly lighter than the minivans while the Pacifica is heavier with AWD. However, both are 4 speed autos which DC also need to improve. I am sure that using the 3.5 L engine in the DC mini vans will hurt the mileage which is the wrong direction to go at this time, especially to compete with the Honda VCM system. Don't forget, the Odyssey is the heaviest, fastest most powerful minivan with the best handling and ALSO gets the best mileage.
  • kfdmedkfdmed Posts: 130
    Paid just under 28K for T&C touring signature series. Also got 0% financing for 5 years. Signature series includes ... leather, dual power doors, power hatch, sunroof, 6 CD/DVD changer, rear video, navigation, tri-zone automatic temperature control and of course stow and go seating that is not available on any other van. I believe I could have gotten an additional $1500 off if I didnt take the 0% financing. The 0% worked out better for me.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    You make broad, unsubstantiated statements but claim that is what is wrong with everyone else. I gave FIRST HAND experience. I just read a Canadian review of the Odyssey which claims the Odyssey is as close to perfection as can be expected from a minivan.

    I gave first hand experience with my 3 Caravans, and my friends. It is every bit as valid as your claims! I also can see the first hand experience of Ody owner on here, and the Ody is far from perfection, just the FACT that 2006 owners are still having some of the same issues as the 2005s! I can also claim as fact 4 recalls.

    Canadian review from who or what? That certainly carries a lot of credibility with me!

    I have driven many an Odys, some on 4-5 hour trips up to northern MI with Visteon engineers to test and compare DVD systems. I also seriously considered an 2005 Ody when shopping a year ago, visiting almost every Honda dealer in the Detroit Metro area, as to not bug one too many times. I was the FIRST customer at Bloomfield Honda to drive a 2005, hours after coming off the truck! Having driven them back to back, the DCX vans are definitely quieter and ride smoother than Honda. Your suspicions are WRONG!

    All my comments are factual and based on first hand knowledge and experience!
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    We don't have to take shots at the Ody, it's already riddled with shots from Ody owners!!

    What makes you a "facter"?? Personal experience?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    The power output is decent too (255hp in the 05 Odyssey). That van is capable of 0-60 in 7.8s. That's extremely fast for a van.

    The 06s are rated at 244hp, the 05s might have been rated at 255hp but the reality is they should have been 244hp also. Now that SAE has standardized test methods, and cut out the fudge factor that many Japanese manufacturers used to inflate hp ratings, consumers get the facts and win.

    Capable of 0 - 60 in 7.8s???? How? Accelerating down hill? CR puts it at 8.6

    BTW - The DGC weighs 100lbs less than an Ody and has almost identical front/rear weight distribution. Part of the reason the DGC handles "worse" is due to Chrysler engineering going for smoother quieter ride over handling via stiff suspension as the Ody.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    Hey socalawd, they must not have gotten the perfect Ody like you did. In 21,000 miles best 26 mpg, with avg of 20.6? What are you getting these days......35mpg?

    And weren't you commenting on how easy it was to remove the seats a few weeks back? Motorweek says "The second row seats are still heavy and cumbersome to remove by one person."
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Capable of 0 - 60 in 7.8s???? How? Accelerating down hill? CR puts it at 8.6

    Well, considering the previous generation Ody did 0-60 in the mid-sevens (see minivan comparo 2004 Car and Driver), I'd say 7.8 is doable! In the same test, the DGC came in dead last acceleration-wise (9.6), and 4th, only ahead of the Freestar.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Posts: 1,168
    I also forgot to mention that if you look at a dyno chart of the Odyssey, the torque curve is relatively flat. It felt that way when I drove it.

    As all pushrods tend to do, they produce more low end torque at lower revs and a flat curve vs. higher reving engines. DCX's ancient pushrod and solid axle rear are what gives it superior towing over other minivans.

    I'll let the automotive engineers make decisions like rev limiters or stability controls or other electronic nannies. We're talking MINIVANs here, not formula one racing - unless you're a exit ramp racing numbnut.
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