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Plekto's short synthetic life comment make no sense to me. Even oil companies today sell full syntetic oil with indicated intervals on the box north of 10 thousand miles. They woudn't do that, if the product didn't meet that. They have interest in selling more stuff, not less.
The advantage of synthetics is supposed oil particle size and chemistry, which in turn is supposed to provide both better lubrication and lifespan.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Suppose it doesn't matter...to maintain your warranty you need to use what the manufacturer specifies anyway; hopefully they get it right
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil.html
My favorite line is "Synthetic oil is better for your car's engine and it improves your fuel economy. Myth"
For those of you who are leasing- and put synthetic in the car even though its not mandated I would think 2x before spending the extra coin on a car you don't own- for those of you who get the "free" BMW oil changes who cares on the 3 changes you will need.
I own my car - I do 2 oil changes a year and use a synthetic blend- no real reason why I choose it - it's cheaper then full synthetic and cost 10 bux more a change vs the regular and it makes me feel good for some odd reason-
but for the Acura, it will get what they put in it, since the dealer will be doing it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
No, it doesn't have a shorter life span. It's more than double, in fact. The issue is what happens when both are put under stress or are reaching the end of their lifespans.
Synthetic oil is slippery goo that is only protecting the engine's internals due to the anti-wear additives that are part of it. When those run out, the goo essentially has the protection of water, or close to it. If you are near the end of its life and, say, it's a cold winter day, the synthetic has all gone down into the crankcase other than a thin film left on the internal parts. If the levels of anti-wear additives are too low, you're in trouble as there is nothing to fall back on.
Natural oil has anti-wear additives as well(to help with higher rpms and pressures), but when it reaches the end of its life, the oil itself retains a fair amount of low rpm/starting anti-wear properties as long as it hasn't suffered thermal breakdown.(synthetic oils are better in this regard) In fact, oil will retain most of this natural level of protection even when it has been reduced to sludge.
The reason you should run semi-synthetic, as GM is now recommending, though not openly (new Dexos standard), is because when the synthetic runs close to the end of its lifespan, there is something to fall back on. Semi-synthetic works for pretty much all engines and is incredibly resistant to abuse as well. That it's cheaper is also a huge plus.
And, yes, almost all other manufacturers have their oil life sensors tweaked to be very sensitive with a massive safety margin if the car is running on pure synthetic. You'll never have an issue with a Honda because the synthetic isn't even halfway to its real end of life. (use it in a lawnmower or whatever if you drain it yourself - it'll still work for that just fine, even used)
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil.html
#1 is about 3K oil changes. This is of course, about *oil*, which has a certain amount of natural lubrication ability no matter how old it gets. I use conventional oil in my "commuter" car (It's almost 15 years old now) and routinely run 4 or 5 thousand miles in it with no problems. My Dad's CTS is showing that it's time to change it at about 5-7 months, typically, which correlates with what the service center mechanics now recommend.
Not a huge difference, well, other than price.... I sometimes get the feeling that we're getting scammed into buying new technology.
#2 - #5 are common sense, IMO.
#6 is absolutely correct in that you can swap right over to semi-synthetic for the extra level of protection that it affords if you forget to change the oil. Semi-synthetic is awesome stuff, IMO, that gives you the best of both worlds for hardly any more money.
#7 also was touched on in my post, though indirectly. Conventional oil is not inferior to synthetic oils in normal driving conditions. The video that the article links to on this assumes that synthetic is always superior other than price, though. Most of the press also assumes this. Nearly every claim about synthetic oil being superior is based upon racing or extreme conditions, as well, where it does make a difference.
If you are racing the car or are using a high revving engine (7-8k+ RPMs), there might be some added protection. But it's going to make no difference in your Jeep or Civic.
http://autos.aol.com/article/gm-engine-oil/
"Further, GM says that if a customer has an engine failure that is traced to oil or lubrication issues, and if the customer does not use dexos 1 oil in their gasoline-powered GM vehicle, that act alone could void the warranty."
Note - Cadillac originally mandated Mobil 1 full synthetic in the CTS. That they would change from full to a blend and make it mandatory is telling.
So if you have a new crop turbo engine (revs are 20K+), if the turbine bearings are lubricated by same motor oil, you better get a synthetic - which is a usual recommendation by manufacturers. The conventional oil could coke on those quicker than 3K miles.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Look, synthetics are superior to conventional oils in every way but one. The base stock of both oils is not the same. While the synthetic has vastly superior properties in most aspects, it's also so highly refined that it provides little protection by itself (almost watery with no viscosity). Conventional oil does to a degree. Then they add the additives to it to make it the oil you and I buy. This isn't an issue at all until you get to a scenario where the oil gets too old.
In essence, there is no failure mode for synthetics. They work perfectly until they don't and the engine blows up. So "whatever, I'll change it in another month" simply is asking for trouble over time. Conventional oils just sludge up and while that's a huge separate problem, your bottom end bearings usually won't grind themselves into oblivion.
Wordy posts are hard to concentrate on- like the beak of the TL- a select few like them.
I think all cars should have oil and that oil should be maintained correctly.
Drive like you live.
http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_9808_synthetic_motor_oil/viewall.html
Most normal drivers will never get the benefit of synthetic - track guys, like flight would .- and cars that mandate it for warranty I wouldn't mess with a switch.
I like synthetics because the longer change periods - so does bmw look at all the free maintence they are giving away- once every 10-12k on each car-
Drive like you Like
Sween
Most people could run normal cheaper oils and see no difference, though. You're absolutely right on that.
Just, don't be *too* lazy about oil changes since synthetic does still need to be changed.
I use dino oil in my Volvo and BMW, and synthetic (with high ZDDP) in my Porsche.
I will not be making it to the NY Auto, I'm dealing with some family issues right now. So anyone going, I would love to hear about the new Wagon and the GT...
I'm sure that was supposed to mean something sensible.
(note - it is actually quite difficult to find this forum as a first time visitor to the site.)
Mostly, there are quite a few people who are knowledgeable about the cars and don't mind sharing and discussing the cars.
Then, there are people like this.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepal
There is no " status symbol" as a BMW owner in SolCa anymore. 3 series all over the street, 95% of them are 328 of course.
I know bunch of young kids make just $40,000~$50,000 a year, still live with their parents, and leasing 3 series for whatever reasons.
You and I are rich people. We live in rich neighborhoods. We socialize with rich people.
BMW is a status symbol to the 98% of the population that can't afford such a luxury. Young kids, cleaning girls, and other convenient cliches you see driving $50,000 luxury cars don't live there.
BJ
I am numb that these type of people even exist, but they do, unfortunately!
SolCa?, Spanish for Sunny CA, sort of, I guess.
"You and I are rich people. We live in rich neighborhoods. We socialize with rich people." Should we let them eat cake, Marie?
My guess, a rich kid living off his parents. Lucky him.
Me? My name is Elmer Fudd. I am a miwionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Our society views debt as "normal" but I don't/won't consider myself wealthy until I own everything free and clear.
Obviously these youngsters in SolCa (sic) are merely emulating their elders (?) and betters (?) here on Edmunds.
Here in the UK the BMW 3-series range outsells the Ford Mondeo range, (last time I checked). So, want exclusivity ? Buy a Mondeo.
Me ? I'll wait 'til I can afford a new Rolls Royce Wraith or Bentley Mulsanne, although it might be a long wait - in which case it will probably be another Skoda, (a better-built and cheaper VW/Audi). :shades:
The real BMW enthusiasts aren't the swells running around in leased M3s, they're the guys like me running old but quite serviceable cars and enjoying them because they're well-made and great to drive in a way that your average FWD sedan could never be. There are a lot of us, just look around you and have a look at what they're saying at BMWCCA.org.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Nice car! When I was in Europe on business a few years ago, I rented a Skoda diesel and drove it over 1800 miles through Germany, Austria & Switzerland--yet another fine car that will never be sold in North America.
I guess I didn't make my point clearly. If you buy them right (i.e. pre-owned) good BMWs cost no more than ordinary cars and being very well-made do not cost a lot to maintain provided you stay out of the dealerships and do your servicing at an independent specialist.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
It's a very small minority, but some (like the person I quoted) believe their good fortune of being the product from a very comfortable family allows them to have a priviliged attitude.
I thought we fought a war in the late 1700s to break away from people who thought that way?
Anyway, that attitude embarrasses me as one who likes BMW's, too.
Why does one have to wait 25 yrs to buy a used BMW just because they have student loans? If this was true, then every Dr I know would still be driving their car from med school today, while they are earning a nice 6 figure a year income. Now granted, if you have a college grad you is making 30K/yr, with student loans, they should not be looking to buy any car at this time...
25 years of paying off student loans is entirely matter of choices made in this country. It is the order of items they decided to pay and acquire that made them paying student loans in 25 years. I know plenty of people who came out of NOTHING, had tens of thousands in student loans and were free of them within 5-10 years of graduation. It is doable, all it takes is NOT TO BUY STUFF.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Are you sure you passed the test? That seems un-American...
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2018 430i Gran Coupe
Very true, but many people figure that if it's good enough for the government, it's good enough for them -- spend as if there's no tomorrow.
The morons (like me) who do things responsibly nearly always end up paying for those who don't. Even/especially at work (Fortune 100 company) I've seen this stuff happen. My budgets that were in great shape in September get cut to zero so that the politicians (works every time it's tried) who have run out of money could get to the end of the year.
Sink or swim was what got this country to where it was a few decades ago. It remains to be seen what the new approach will yield. The good news is that I'll be dead before it plays out.
My son is about to graduate, and will have some (but not exorbitant) student loan debt. If (please!) he gets a job soon, we will have to do something about a car, because I don't really want to send him away to depend on the well used old one if he is depending on it to commute.
so, a lease may make the most sense, since there won't be any money left really to put down on something decent, and you would still need a large loan.
so, the student loan will be just 1 more monthly obligation in 9 months when they start, though putting extra toward it will likely make a lot of sense, depending on the interest rate.
Still, getting started in life, as long as the payments are not a problem, no reason not to live a normal life.
Now, my nephew the intern, I think he has close to 300K by now piled up (200?) In any case, I told him to just budget it like a 2nd mortgage!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Others who have yet responded to there "backwardsb hat" comments cannot take the youth buying the prestigious bmw, so called enthusiast. Lets go on a road trip with the GFs - but please don't tell us who should be driving such cars.
Act as if.
Not saying anything wrong with a used car - but a new car under certain lease requirements and given certain situation is not a bad option- and could be a better option. Rock on
I got an integra GSr in 2000 for 25O a month 1500 down- could not get a better deal- had a 3 year lease- warrantee - no issues- I was a young buck just out of college - last 3 cars have been bought new- all bought- but even if I had the money I would still finance because the rates are so low- case in point- after trade we owed less then 5k for my wife's crv- I financed for 60 mths at .9 because rate was so low- not because we didn't have the extra 5- all about what fits
and $3,500 down on a mew 328 is going to leave a eye watering payment!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The goal really is to get him established, and saving money. In 3 years he can go for a BMW if he wants one, and can afford it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Others love the song "upside down" by jack Johnson - me not so much
I'm not going to tell anybody how to live their life, I just rebuff claims that life without a nice car is somehow going to less fulfilling. There is no entitlement of having a nice car when one graduates from college, or medical school. Those feelings are internally developed due to social pressure and marketing. Does not mean we all have to obligue. However, if somebody considers a new Lexus or BMW more important than being debt free, it is their choice. But is was a choice, not necesity. All I ask then is that one does not say later "it was not my fault", "nobody could see that coming", or similar excuse phrase, when things don't go according to plan.
2018 430i Gran Coupe