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Same here in Colorado - Shell has PUG at $3.75 and Diesel at $3.95.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I also suppose it depends on the type of driving you do and what you use your car for.
My wife has been getting about 22MPG on the last few tanks now that she's been in her new job for 3 1/2 weeks. This is a 2010 Mazda CX-7 that requires premium. She likes the security of AWD here in Colorado and the hatchback capacity since she is now toting about a lot of materials for the job.
About the closest diesel equivalent would be the Jetta SWG - but it doesn't offer AWD. A small or mid-sized SUV with a diesel and high 20's combined fuel economy would be just about right. 20% above 22 is 26 MPG.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My local Shell has Premium at $3.95. Diesel is $4.15. It's hard to justify the extra for diesel fuel.
12,000 miles/25mpg = 480 gallons of fuel. X 3.95 = $1896
12,000 miles/30mpg = 400 gallons of fuel. X 4.15 = $1660
That Diesel is more expensive is an illusion. The reality is it's less expensive over time.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But IIRC, there may be some other upgrades as well. Does upgrading to the diesel give you anything else?
On price point, $3000 price difference can be partially recouped at resale, so it may not need 13 years to pay it off. However, as I just stated, I consider diesel an inferior choice in terms of driving experience, thus it is not sufficient for me to just break even with gas. To put it simple, to even consider diesel, it would need to pay itself vs. gas in just two-three years, so after five or six I could really say it was cheaper.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Case in point. I can't literally buy a working/reliable Mercedes 240 Diesel with manual for under $4K. Almost 40 years old and it's still hard as hell to find a good condition one as nobody wants to sell theirs. Recent VW TDIs are also incredibly hard to find used as people just don't sell them unless they are literally falling to pieces.
Also so far at least part of that $3000 is extra equipment as the diesels here tend to be a higher trim level than the base car, the manufactures are not offering base level trim with the diesels ( they are doing the same so far with most hybrids as well). I think this will start changing and we will see what the true cost of the diesel option is ( though reall with direct injection, turbo gas engines seemingly becoming the norm there is not much extra on a diesel anymore beside the particle filters, and there is talk of them be required on the gas engines soon too). Also someone said that diesels require more maintenance, I am wondering where that cames from?
I don't think you can really compare the availability of a 40 YO car with a modern mainstream car.
Recent VW TDIs are also incredibly hard to find used as people just don't sell them unless they are literally falling to pieces.
IMHO, current diesel buyers go out of there way to purchase diesel. Of course they are going to hold onto them - their only really choice is to go buy the same vehicle, just a few years newer.
In short, it makes no economic sense.
Diesels do offer a little more low end torque, but they also usually give up some HP and higher end revs in the process. So, I consider that a wash.
Car makers try and try (mostly the Europeans) but they just won't get a foothold for all the reasons stated.
For those who are fans of diesels, there are a few models to look at. I don't think they'll ever remotely be widespread, however.
pletko....it's going to be hard to find any 40 year old car in great shape, not only diesel Benz's. I don't think VW brings all that many diesels to the U.S. to begin with compared to their selection of gasoline cars that they bring here, so TDIs will be hard to find.
What is the price difference? .20/gallon and if your tank hold 20 gallons you are talking $4/tank difference not much of a difference. However, you get 30% better mileage.
More maintenance? In which way?
For some, owning a diesel is not the best think because they do not keep their cars long enough, for me and my partner it does since we hold on to our cars longer than most.
In short, it makes no economic sense.
Hey Graphic the price difference you are talking about is this between Premium unleaded and Diesel ? Since BMW recommends PU in their cars this is the only way to look at it.
For example, filled up yeasterday. Premium was 3.72/gal. Diesel was 4.09/gal.
Makes no financial sense for Diesel.
BTW, I don't believe modern diesels would last as much as older ones. There are already indications (in European markets) that the new crop suffers from same issues that undercut gas engine's longevity (electronics, sensitivity to fuel quality, leaks in turbos, etc.).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Crunch the numbers, ie greater cost to buy, greater cost of fuel vs increased mpg. Also try to figure out incremental cost to maintain. Depending on how much you drive and the % of city vs highway, it could be 8 years to breakeven and in that amount of time, a lot can happen regarding fuel prices, disparity in price between gas and diesel and of course, drivetrain technology and improved mpg.
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/DPF-Adblue-FAQ-VW-Audi.htm
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/03/2014-mercedes-benz-cla-45-amg-up-clos- e.html
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Pretty interesting performance at a pretty good price point. Like the looks, too.
580 miles per tank for PU
780 miles per tank for Diesel
I used to own a 225 hp '91 Taurus SHO and I can tell you it was close to the limit of what I'd want in a FWD car. I'm quite unaware of "many" FWDs with that kind of power, the only one I can think of is the current SHO, not exactly a hot seller.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Ford ShO 91, loved that car.
VW has an excellent sport front driver, GTI. BMW's front driver is renown for its handling.
Decades ago in road rally races in Europe, some of the best performing vehicles were front drivers such as Saab and Mini Cooper.
Huh?
What did I miss here?
- Ray
Driving a RWD BMW...
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It is all about chassis setup and 22 yrs ago, that was the limit, however, things have changed today.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Both are engineering by BMW and use components shared with BMW. The Rolls Royce Ghost uses the F01 as it's platform. The new Wraith is based on the Ghost so it to uses the same platform. The next Mini platform is to be shared by the 1 series so essentially it too will be similar to the BMW.
And also sorry in advance to BMW 3series fans because what I'll write may sound like I'm trashing BMW. But in fact, on the opposite, I'm looking for your help to make the case that BMW 3 is still the right car for me.
That's all for the opening, here's my story:
I'm having an Acura TL2004 at 125K miles. I love this car, inside out. But recently, it's been having so many problems that I decided it's time for a new car. Actually, my TL has been having quite a few problems since the warranty expired but I kept fixing it hoping that problem would be last but it's not the case...
Anyway, since I'm looking for a new car, BMW 3 series is on top of my list thanks to all what I read about how great it is... a benchmark for the performance segment....
So I test drove a BMW 328i xdrive and a 328i 2013 model last week, and here's my first reaction:
- Interior: far worse than my TL, materials look cheap and feel cheap. The seat leatherette looks like it's not fully stretched leaving "waves" here and there (hope you understand this, English is not my native language). The steering wheel stitches feel rough on the hands. For me, the best phrase to describe the cabin is "made in China" kind of stuff (just the feeling, not fact)
- Performance: trying to overcome the disappointment with the interior, I was hoping that the German approach was no nonsense and put all the money into the driving experience. However, I felt only marginally better driving dynamic and that's only achieved with Sport mode because when I started with Eco mode, I could hardly tell the improvement vs. my TL. You may say that I'm not that sophisticated a driver to really feel the difference. But the fact is that when I drove a Toyota Camry and a Nissan Maxima just a few weeks ago (rental cars), I clearly felt the difference with the Camry and Maxima feeling like it's "floating" on the road vs. my TL's my firmer, controlled and composed dynamic. Driving 80mph in the Camry and Maxima I didn't feel as secured as in my TL. I was hoping for that "leap" from the TL to the BMW 3 but it was not the case.
Long story, hope I didn't bother you too much. Here are my questions:
- Have someone owned both Acura TL (04-08 model) and BMW 3 series? What's your opinion about the 2 cars?
- Could my limited excitement be due to the fact that the test drive was to short to really feel the difference (I was on each car (328i and 328i xdrive) for about 20 mins)? Or could it be because the TL is really good and all that driving performance superiority of BMW 3 was compared to the mainstream car like Camry so I didn't feel that much of a jump?
I still really want BMW 328 to be my next car and I hope you could help me to really understand the difference.
Thank you very much.
Leoblue, these are just a few observations of mine on the differences of the two cars; keep in mind that this is a very subjective thing. You have to buy with a car that appeals to you. There are many fine car choices you have and you should not go solely on other's opinions but mainly the opinion that matters the most, your own.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
R&T said this about the 3 series: "The 3-series, which used to make so much more sense than the 1, is now a perfectly nice car that barely registers on the fun-to-drive scale." Barely registers according to them. They also said that it focuses more on electronics than on feedback.
So, all of this probably does not matter to many people who mainly buy these cars to "show off". To say that they have arrived. To say that they are sophisticated.