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If you read at all about the auto industry you know that manufacturers make big profits off of their truck and suv sales. How much exactly I don't know. But the important thing about that statement is that I don't know exactly. That's why I don't make statements about a companies overall profit or loss. In the case of SUV profits I assumed it was pretty well known or accepted that manufactures back big bucks off of those sales but to be honest I really don't know. I'm not saying that either company is making huge overall profits because I simply don't know. YOU are the one that made statements about Acura profits or lack thereof mainly because of their lack of sales in the TL. You seem to base that theory on the fact that they are offering big discounts on the TL. I don't believe that is enough info to broadly state that Acura is making little to no profit as a company. If you do know then please enlighten us as I have never said that I do.
Re volume, if we were talking about Camrys I would agree that huge volume is absolutely neccessary, but when you are talking about luxury cars I think they can be profitable without selling on volume. There are tons of car companies and most are doing ok even if they are midpack in sales or even on the lower end in sales. Being tops in sales means something I agree, but it's not the only factor when it comes to being a viable business.
honda revs- they dont just include car sales- kiddie talk- I would also look at the currency moves and see what they are doing to said revs- if you could cut and paste something i would love to read it. Prob learn a thing or 2 while cutting and pasting...
As another poster would say- "Happy Motoring".
"Opting for the 2014 Infiniti Q50 Hybrid will get the buyer a powertrain consisting of a 3.5-liter V6, a 50kW electric motor and a lithium ion battery that offers up a total power output of 354 hp and a highway fuel mileage rating of 36 miles per gallon, all for a starting price of $44,855, which includes the Premium group. The most expensive version of the new sedan is the Q50S Hybrid with all-wheel drive. That model carries an MSRP of $49,055."
Above was copied from an article on Autoblog.com.
I think the Q50H with AWD would be around $46,655. I think I read someplace that the H version would also be the fastest. Don't know what sacrifices(if any) they made for the hybrid MPG like tires, brakes etc.
Acura needs to fix the appearance of the TL. It doesn't really matter if it performs well and has a nice interior, it is still ugly. I'm driving my '05 TL at 132K miles and I can tell you that I haven't the slightest interest in the new TL. My vintage TL IMHO was one of the nicer looking cars on the road and Acura screwed up big time in going from very handsome to butt ugly (or beak-ugly). Don't underestimate appearance, as few people want to invest that type of money and drive an ugly car.
Then there's the TSX - a car that went from sporty and handsome to not-as-ugly-as-the-TL, but bloated and not sharp handling any more. So Acura blew it on two of their top vehicles. That's a pretty sad story for a lineup that was a lot better 7 years ago than today.
Then again, Buick is doing well with less- a compact sedan (Verano), a sporty/performance-oriented mid-size sedan (Regal) and near-full-size sedan (LaCrosse) along with a large Crossover (Enclave) and mini-crossover (Encore). In particular, the Encore is a joke compared to the RDX and the LaCrosse is no RLX. But somehow, Buick is more desirable than Acura to most buyers .
Well, I'd say the Buicks are actually at least decent looking to attractive. Like I said, don't underestimate the power of ugly to ruin a brand. Buick is getting a lot better and Acura has gone the other direction. While I would never buy a Buick, I can see why they are improving relative to Acura.
White Diamond Pearl
35% Tint
Wood Steering Wheel
Wood Shift Knob
Back Up Sensors
A Whole lot of Zaino Shine
IMOHO.
Sween - you are right that Acura took too long with the refresh or restyle.
When is the TL replacement coming? 2015 MY? Acura dealers are already "giving them away" at below invoice prices. Who knows what kind of rebates, conquest cash, trunk money, & cheap financing they will throw the TL's way once they decide to "fire sale" in the coming months.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
My expectation is that the TL replacement (TLX?) will be introduced very early in calendar year 2014 as a 2015 model.
The recently announced 2013 TL Special Edition model (a 2013 model being introduced in June 2013 makes me wonder if there will be an official 2014 model) is the the kind of "high value" upgrade done to generate sales in a model's last days. The sticker price is only $1500 more than the 'Base' TL, but it adds-
Ebony leather interior with contrast stitching
18" 10-spoke Chrome-look alloy wheels
Keyless Access System w/ Push-Button Ignition
Body-colored decklid spoiler
Special Edition Badging
The wheels and spoiler really give the car a much nicer look. It only comes in four colors- Black, Pearl White, Silver and Graphite and all have the aforementioned Black Leather.
Rumor has it that they're going to run a $299/mo lease special on it...
Time wil tell- only 24K on the TL.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I'm going to try and constrain my automotive budget for my next purchase, but I might just be tempted on a "lame duck" TL SH AWD if the price is right. As long as its not black.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
http://www.lexus.com/lexus-share/v2/img/PDF/Lexus-IS-Brochure.pdf
While I liked the pre -'12 design, I admit the redesign makes the current TL one of the classiest looking cars on the market, currently. Add in the torque vectoring rear giving it high handling limits, and the comfort of the sports seats, and the quality of the materials, and the high build quality, and the great stereo, the uber smooth drivetrain, MPG (She last told me she's getting 22 MPG in town and 28 MPG on the highway), etc. I found it very competitive.
My sister bought hers for right around $40, give or take. That's a whole lot of car/performance for that kind of money. My S4 ran $10K+ over that amount and the TL SH AWD isn't that far off the performance mark (except acceleration, where the S4 will smoke many muscle cars, and the DSG trans).
I think "markincinnati" pointed out that he went from an Audi to the TL. At first, I kind of scoffed. But, given the test drive I did with my sister and the TL upgrades, it makes perfect sense, now.
I'm thinking I have another couple of years on my Audi S4 before I start to look again.
The TL(X) will be released in 2015. It's been seen in testing areas under heavy camo. The TSX is going away. My guess is end of this year someone will see one without camo, and release will come roughly 12 months from now.
Given Acura's move towards their 4 wheel steering with the RLX, and the way they take incremental steps in powertrain upgrades, I'm thinking they keep the 3.7, add direct injection, pump out another 10 HP and another 10 ft/lb. My hope is they keep the double wishbone instead of moving to coil overs.
Will I be a buyer? Not sure. Too far away to tell.
But, given what I know about the Benz, the Q, the BMW, Caddy, Audis, etc, I'll put the TL right there with them.
Billy....hard to go wrong with the A6. It is probably close to what you're used to with the TL, sizewise. That Audi 3.0 SC is a sweetheart of a motor, though. The TL 3.7L is fast and smooth too, however.
Good luck in your choice.
I can do a write up if you are as interested as billy was.
I know I dont need a new car right now but I have the summer itch- just wish the wife had it too.
I'll counter that the TL is probably still a very profitable profit for Acura/Honda. It's in it's 5th year of production so the tooling has been depreciated. They've perfected the manufacturing which drives down costs. All in all, it makes them plenty of money I'm sure.
- it has more value then someone presuming margins on suvs are higher then sedans - ok i get it and have read the same comment before, but you think them selling 10k more MDXs make up for them selling 60k less TLS, and those said TLS are selling at a 10% discount to MSRP vs comps of 5% ??
my original statement 5 years ago was acura is losing because of a stale product line- and it continues today
Kind of like SUVs (have larger margins), something we have all read in all types of rags but have yet to see actual figures.
Sorry you opened yourself up to getting a little, again I agree with 90% of what you say but......
Where did you get the the information that Acura selling TLs for big discounts equates to Acura, as a company, making little to no profit? I haven't read that anywhere.
BTW im not here to bash honda or acura, my comments from 5 years ago stand today & HONDA posted numbers last night which were very impressive (now 2q in a row), they cited growth in Acura division.. so maybe the tide has turned, bravo to them.
This just shows how much you know about the financial stability of a company- all that posting about the demise of the company just went straigth out the door.
Financial stability of the company... love that man- good stuff did you know that Honda corp in March had to dump 1billion into the company (acura) to get them sound enuf to start producing new products, they are far from self sufficent.
Moodys raised them last night fyi as well-- any other corporate info i can give you let me know.. and did you know the HMC total strength was driven by the Honda divsion, CIVIC, CRV and new accord & - "citied growth in the acura division." The acura division is a pimple on the honda brand,. As posted above the sales numbers indicated the growth was not in the cars but in the suvs (maybe the ILX as well). My posts from 5 years ago and on have been correct about the sedans.. here you go
http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars/ugly-cars/acura-tl.html
Gee, don't remember saying anything like that. But to answer your question....of course not.
"SUVs became popular in the United States, Canada, India and Australia in the 1990s and early-2000s. U.S. automakers could enjoy profit margins of $10,000 per SUV, while losing a few hundred dollars on a compact car.[11] For example, the Ford Excursion could net the company $18,000, while they could not break even with the Ford Focus unless the buyer chose options,[12][13] leading Detroit's big three automakers to focus on SUVs over small cars."
While this talks about Ford, from everything I've read about margins online, in magazines and in the daily newspapers say the same thing re all automakers. SUVs have much better margins than passenger cars so selling a high proportion mix of SUVs vs. passenger cars should maintain profit margins. Of course, good profit margins on all lines would be preferable. But the fact remains that your statement about Acura having little to no profit was just one big assumption. Good to see you finally admitted that your statement was basically an educated guess which is pretty much what any opinion is. Some are just more educated than others.
Also, dont you know that those top ten comparisions are subjective?
just one big assumption not really that big as its backed by sales numbers and discounts that are published.. and the fact that those said discounts are more then the comp and those said sales numbers are a third of its biggest competitor.
we've all seen the SUV type message written in NYT or the NYP--but again you have never produced any numbers to dispute my educated opinion just broad industry chatter that suvs are high margin, wonder how acura did on the margins of the zdx last year when they sold 800, but again but why should we look at sales numbers when we have chatter on the ford focus vs excursion (hasnt been produced since 05) above above. Sales numbers do not tell the whole story- but a better story then you present. sorry
Leasing isn't for everybody, but a lot of people do it for all the wrong reasons.. BTW, I thought this was your first lease?
Interesting it's OK for Sweeny to mock others but when it happens to him he complains about it... Can't have it both way, dude.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
enjoy..
My local BMW dealer is having their "drive" event in about 3 weeks. I'm hoping they'll have a 4 Series there to look at, if not to test drive.
Again, I'd like to see it myself before passing judgement.