Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

1317318320322323435

Comments

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Just this week I aided a co-worker in her automobile search. We compared a new Accord and a used 2012 TL. The 2012 TL (non-SHAWD) was just under $27K and around 20k miles.

    In addition to the items you listed it also has the better warranty and is a luxury brand (in her eyes). The TL does seem like a bargain if you don't mind the styling (looks 'ok' to me).

    Going -used- throws a bunch of variables into the mix and it is not really apples to apples.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    edited August 2013
    You wrote: "we all know that BMW wouldn't make a no frills sport sedan. . . "

    Perhaps you should amend that by adding . . .that they would export to the US (and probably some other regions as well.) Although my last visit to Germany was in 2006, I have been there about 25 times and several times I have rented (from Avis or Hertz, etc) cars for part of my time in Europe -- primarily so that I can drive on the Autobahn.

    Audi, BMW and Mercedes alike make and sell many "no frills" vehicles and versions of the cars we get here in the US that are way way down scale in features, functions, content and performance.

    Many European taxis are base-r than basic German cars -- no carpet, plastic seats, no "glintzy" trim bits puny, puny powerplants -- and completely devoid of any kind of bling or high-end pretense.

    It seems to me that there is room for these "high end" [German] manufacturers to bring all kinds of higher end and lower end products to the US. In fact it is probably quite easy to bring out less expensive versions of our market (i.e., premium) Audis, BMWs and Mercedes across the board (within reason, of course).

    Moreover, it seems folks will, given the choice and a way to justify the cost, always take the Acura over the Honda, the Audi over the VW, the Lexus over the Toyota and the Infiniti over the Nissan (to name a few.)

    And, unless the manufacturer is so stupid as to not differentiate between the Lexus and the Toyota, there will be a very noticeable difference between the pedestrian and the sublime versions.

    I think gone are the days where the emperor truly had no clothes -- today there is a wide margin between the Chevy Impala and the Cadillac XTS -- and the price reflects the difference (and perhaps OVER reflects it, to be fair and balanced.)

    The VW Quantum and the Audi 4000 (remember when?) were much more like fraternal twins then than any more recent models.

    You may believe (and I typically agree) that the Infiniti isn't worth the uptick in price over a "similar" Nissan, but the Infiniti (or whatever you're on about) is different, more -- and most pros and amateurs alike would say "better."

    There is an apropos phrase that mostly fits here: "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten. . . ."

    Now of course I could be wrong (but not uncertain) -- but if I am wrong, then by this time next year we'll ALL be buying and driving KIA Cadenza's -- 'cause lordy lordy there ain't nuttin' that even comes close to this puppy at any price.

    I have been, more than once, unable to afford the "better car" (I'm driving a freakin' Acura TL for pity's sake -- after years of only having Audis -- I am living proof!) -- but I never stopped thinking the car I had to pass on (due to my financial circumstances) wasn't worth its asking price.

    I'm already counting down the days until I will return to my favorite German car dealership (and, to be fair, I will also check out what Acura and Infiniti are offering up at the moment of truth). We all rationalize -- or at least most of us do; but it is unlikely that a fine high-zoot German sedan will seem similar to even the best Mazda 6. We tell ourselves that the Mazda is just as good (or close enough) as the German (or whatever premium car is your first love) offering to rationalize our choices.

    I could live with an Acura TL -- if I have to -- for years, they are very good cars and good values (and they seem durable as all get out). But, if I am in a position to return to the REAL Premium brands (and you know who they are), I'll do so in a New York Minute.

    Drive it like you live.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Mark....I should fall into your camp, but I don't. I DO own an Audi, and I DON'T believe its price justifies the premium over a more "pedestrian" (as you feel) Acura or Infiniti.

    Is the Audi a nice car? Absolutely. I've rented plenty of VWs when I travel. I can see there are more premium bits in the Audi than there are in the VW. I also see the things that are the same.

    Personally, I'll never again take for granted what the Japanese Premium Brands excel in....that is reliability, longevity, brick like build quality. Those things do indeed matter....a lot.

    Of course this little diatribe comes hot on the heels of picking up my allegedly repaired S4 this a.m at 7:30 a.m. There was a littany of things the dealer did. None of them fixed the problem (as I learned when I got half way home), and now they've introduced some squeaks and rattles into my console area (supposedly caused by removing and replacing the MMI). Quattro is still "binding", but not as much as before.

    So, either live with it. Or, keep schlepping it to the dealer.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I do feel your pain -- my first (and only) new A8 spent more time (or it seemed that way) at the dealership than in my garage.

    Generally speaking you did take my message as I meant it. My thoughts, however, regarding the status of the cars would be to call the VW the pedestrian vehicle -- the Acura and Infiniti are, to me at least, still in a "class" that is above the pedestrian Honda and Nissan.

    I had an S6 a few years back and I loved it -- yet it too spent too much time in the dealership's repair bay.

    But I have not had what I would call a totally confidence inspiring experience with my Acura. My issues with my Acura TL SH-AWD are -- if I am able to pull the emotion out of the equation -- dealer related.

    As either an anecdote or a data point -- you decide -- I complained at the first oil change (about 8,000 miles) that there was a noise and sensation that I believed to be warped brake rotors. Every time I touched the brakes at highway speeds there was a "shudder" and vibration that felt like warped rotors or wheels that needed balancing.

    The dealership decided to "turn the brakes" -- in fact they did this exercise two times (to no avail.)

    I went to another Acura dealership -- one that has no connection with or to a Honda dealership and their diagnosis was that I had 3 warped wheels (they said they were "bent".)

    Acura corporate said, "your fault -- or at least not OUR fault." But, the dealership (the second dealer, that is) appeared to go to bat for me and was able to get 3 new wheels at 50% of the SRP. This cure for the issue happened around 25,000 miles. Of course the "overall" safe/smart/prudent thing to do was to replace all four tires, too (at a cost of about $1,000 from the tire rack.) I also had the new wheels and tires road force balanced -- at a slight discount (at the dealership.) This cure cost about $2K, plus I had the displeasure of driving over 20,000 miles with what felt like warped brake discs.

    Otherwise the car has been and my sense is, will remain, both reliable and durable -- but I just can't shake the [emotional, probably] sense that my Acura has (for wont of a better term) "too much Honda" in it.

    I'd take the S4 any day. Now, I know or at least I think I know what you're thinking: The S4 could be nearly $20K more than the TL -- and typically would be at least $10K more (my TL had back up sensors and other Acura accessories on it for a total MSRP of a bit south of $48K.)

    You've had either a bad S4 or an unsatisfying dealer experience -- or both.

    Generally speaking I would think both of our experiences have been -- for the respective brands we're talking about -- way below our expectations. Everyone I know of says Hondas, er, Acuras are easily good to go for at least 150K -- with only routine mntce.

    Audis, of recent vintage are, typically, also reliable and durable -- and return much more driving pleasure than competing Acuras.

    But please note that my "short list" when the time comes, in about 11 months, will contain Audi, Acura, Infiniti and probably Volvo. I may even give another look-see at a BMW (probably not, though.)

    I may fall victim to the most "bang for the buck" car -- which could turn out to be another Acura TL or TLX (or whatever they call it at the time). Right now it seems to me that something like a Q5 with the supercharged engine is a cross between an A4 allroad and an S4 -- for less money (when well equipped) than either of the other 2 Audis.

    I hope someone from Audi reads these posts. Were I in that position (a paid forum reader of our rants and raves) I would certainly try to reach out to you "from the factory" and make your situation right -- if for no other reason than to turn you into a brand fan, instead of a brand foe.

    I still say it is easier to pay too little and regret it than pay what seems to be a bit too much (at the time) and love it.

    Good luck with your dealership.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Thanks! As much as my finances are thanking me a bit for having 3 months to prepare for this HUGE purchase (for my budget, was definitely stretching; but pre-owned S4's seem to be holding their value REALLY well, are popular fast sellers making them rare, and I didn't see the value in a lightly used one if it was going to cost nearly as much if not the same amount (given the usual 60K MSRP they are typically bought at).

    If I'm going to spend a large amount of money, Audi or anyone else better believe I'm going to be picky what my money goes towards; so a custom order seemed like the only option to me. Thankfully, Audi still makes enough options stand-alone that you can get it just right! Acura groups too much junk together.

    I will admit however, even with the Pro's of having 3 months longer with an old "cheap" car to shore up the finances, the con's are I'm anxious and can't wait to get my hands on the new S4! I can see why people without strong will power or color preference just have to have something right now, today! Turns out Escondido dealer only needed $1K down (SD Audi wanted $2,500 down), I emailed my offer to SD Audi, and about 22.5 hours later, without a response, I decided to extend same offer to Escondido Audi in person, and they jumped for it (after a couple of attempts to get me to go up).

    I feel just a tad bit bad as the sale-person that helped me previously at SD Audi said they were with clients all day long and just didn't get to my e-mail until after 5. I had assumed and figured the sales manager was mulling/balking over my offer for too long. Probably in hind sight I should have called to make the offer and/or confirm she got the email. However, I'm sure she will learn not to ignore e-mails; it could be an offer to buy!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    S4 Fancier leather option: Hardest one to pony up for as it MSRP's at $1,250. However, I noticed all the details it comes with from the fine Nappa Leather all round, to the contrasting stitching (in the color you choose) on the center armrest, shifter, steering wheel, seats, and door armrests. I loved that level of attention and contrast. Most importantly though, at least in the S5, they cut the Alcantara seam about 1/2 to 1" too high on the upper seat section. If you lean your upper seat back at all, you can see the vinyl mesh material where it meets the lower seat cushion. In the S4, the Nappa leather was cut lower down, so even way leaned back, you couldn't' see the less desirable seat trim.

    Audi Club North America members in good standing also get the same supplier 6% discount. That's a very good deal! It's well below Edmund's TMV of average transaction prices for the S4. However, I needed a GREAT deal in order to go new. With the "fancier" leather, I was over my stretched $50K threshold (before taxes), without it, I met my price target. So my offer was $850 below the 6% discount. Probably around 6.4%? I didn't do the math exactly. My A3 ownership also gives me $1,000 loyalty rebate back on the back end after taxes as well. In CA, sales tax is ridiculous so figuring 10% for tax, title, license, and fees is about right I'm told.

    2014 S4 has Audi Drive Select standard, in exchange for raising the MSRP $500 bucks from 2013. The Sport Diff option went down $150 from 2013 probably because Drive Select is already on the car. I told them the price increase wasn't my fault, I'm sticking to my offer at $50,000. :)
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    If the 335i new is the same price as the S4, I made the right decision in my book; hands down.

    Maybe I accidentally clicked on a 328i when I equipped it for $45K (or maybe I was looking at Invoice price on 335i)?

    I liked the power in the '09 335i sport package sedan (the drive, not really the interior), and if it wasn't for the brakes locking up, I might have liked it enough to buy it (and it had shameful All-Season tires). Carmax lowered the price on it to make up for the bad tire selection I see... tempting... .. :)

    It had a heavy effort filled steering similar to the '11 S4 I test drove, which I liked on both. I have to admit, I preferred the higher effort steering in the older S4 to the '13 S4 I test drove (not a deal breaker though; just a preference). In 2013 they went electromechanical steering supposedly for efficiency. Since the gas mileage didn't change, I can only assume it made a .5 MPG impact or less and rounding variance didn't help them.

    I have a thing for nice steering wheels. As much as I loved the old steering wheel in the Audi's, the new '13/'14 version is even nicer! I didn't think Audi could top the previous version, but they did!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    When I went to Hoehn Audi in Carlsbad about 2 weeks ago, they had no (I mean zero) new S4's and at least four (4) S5's!

    They did bring out a used '11 S4 that they claimed was sold, but since it hadn't been paid for, it was technically not sold until tomorrow, and I could "steal" it, if I wished. It was the only used S4 they had.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited August 2013
    The TL looks "OK" to me too, but there's a big gap from looks "ok" to looks "beautiful."

    If looks and style don't matter to someone (or your tastes just differ), the TL is definitely a value bargain buy right now.

    If Audi rejected my $50K offer (not including fees/taxes) after trying at like 5 dealers, I'd of probably offered Acura $40K out the door on a TL-SH AWD Tech (37,500 + taxes - 1,500 conquest rebate). About 2K below TMV, not sure if that would have flied?

    As the most recent cross shopper of the TL-SH AWD vs. S4 here on this board and forum, I can say that I couldn't justify a full $15K delta, but close to it seemed rational to me. That is why I needed to get Audi to agree to an offer that kept the S4 within that $15K delta with the Acura (assuming TMV best deal on Acura).
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    "Perhaps you should amend that by adding . . .that they would export to the US (and probably some other regions as well.) Although my last visit to Germany was in 2006, I have been there about 25 times and several times I have rented (from Avis or Hertz, etc) cars for part of my time in Europe -- primarily so that I can drive on the Autobahn. "

    Nah, I wont amend what I wrote, since I wasn't talking about what could be had in Europe, v. here. We know that BMW build a 316i gasser stripped...

    I was talking about allow us as in the US, to be able to build a true sport sedan. The current M sport package is a start, but I'm more talking about like the ZPH package that I had in my 330i, close ratio transmission, higher revving engine, more HP, better suspension bigger rims and tires. Allow us to order a 335i with a ZPH package. No leather, No Nav, no Sunroof, no power windows, increase HP to 320hp and have the price at 46K. So the same thing with the 328i, have price aat 36K or so. Bring back the true sport sedan, Do not allow it to come with an Auto or is it does make a DSG type in the M3... You can still sell the yuppie cars but do not discard the people wanting a true sport sedan.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I did find it annoying the XXX number iS models from BMW are only available in Coupes, and those have the 320 HP or so your looking for right? Why not have an IS version of the 335? 335is in sedan, not just coupe.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    graphicguy had the dealer apply the performance engine update to his 335i for around $600, I think..

    Presto! 320 HP!!

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    edited August 2013
    I think the "is" is available on coupe only because it is old E90 platform. It used to be available on sedan as well, but they switched the platforms. New 4-series won't have "is" trim just yet, either.

    The "is" trim is usually a mid-cycle refresh gimmick to maintain sales and buzz on models that are no longer "all new", to keep them running. IIRC, it wasn't available on the new platform with 330i right away, either. Then when they brought the turbo six engine (335i), it wasn't there either until some time has passed. If the patterns were to repeat, we should see (hopefully) some "is" trims available on the new F30 platform, as the novelty wears off. It (the novelty) already has passed for sedans, but you still have brand new wagon, GT, 328 diesel, 320, the 4-series coupe coming just in 2013, /2014 season. The convertible is next, I'm sure. Once the entire lineup is complete, the sedan will come with a refreshed look, as it always does and some additional stuff, to keep the interest and push early lessee adopters from 2012 to getting into 2015/16. I think that would be a perfect time for them to introduce the "is" trim on F3x lineup.

    All manufacturers try to spoonfeed their new stuff, so there is always something to talk about. BMW actually brought a lot of new models this year, so they'll wait with incremental improvements until they see buzz dying off.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    edited August 2013
    [i]graphicguy had the dealer apply the performance engine update to his 335i for around $600, I think..

    Presto! 320 HP!![/i]

    Yep....sure did.

    I still think BMW is underrating that 3.0 twin scroll turbo motor....just like Audi is doing with their S/C 3.0.

    Both are putting out more power than they officially publish.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    "graphicguy had the dealer apply the performance engine update to his 335i for around $600, I think..

    Presto! 320 HP!!"

    Didn't Graphic have the 335is which had the 320hp engine?

    So, BMW has the "is" model which comes with performance improvements already, however, there is a price to pay for that too!!
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    It's been reported by a couple of vendors that the 3l engine is making roughly 330hp, but I also think that BMW has always underrated their engines, my 330 with "only 235hp" was faster then some cars with 80 + HP.I'm sure the close ratio transmission had something to do with it.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    FN...nope. Mine was the 335i with the performance pack (firmware) upgrade. The 335is also had some minor suspension and wheel tweaks.

    adnres....good deal on the S4. I might have missed it, but have you already bought it? Or, are you just working on the "deal"?

    Mark.....don't disagree with any of what you have to say. If I were in the market for an SUV, the Q5 would be at the top of the list.

    That said, I tcompare the two Audi dealerships in my 'burg to my BMW dealership, and there's a night and day difference with the advantage going to BMW. Even when I had my Acura, my preferred dealer took very good care of me.

    As I mentioned previously, it might have been because I bought my S4 in Chicago and am having it serviced in Cincinnati. But, I really don't buy into a dealership treating you better if you buy the car from them. Warranty work is paid the same regardless. And, let's face it, service work has a whole lot more margin than new car sales.

    I think the training, the time spent understanding the cars, the amount of time spent daily focused on customer service (or lack thereof) becomes evident in the way they take care of your problems.

    Your Acura dealership experience would have prompted me to send a strongly worded letter to Acura corporate. Your car is what? A year old? And already has warped rotors? I call that a defect in materials and covered under warranty. It's not like you have 50K miles on one set of pads which are totally worn away.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    'I did find it annoying the XXX number iS models from BMW are only available in Coupes, and those have the 320 HP or so...'
    If the sedan 335 had been available in 'iS' form
    that is what I would have chosen in 2011.
    - Ray
    Turned mine in recently & walked away from the brand..
    2022 X3 M40i
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    You should have put a Dinan sticker on your rear deck. It adds 30 hp.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    It was actually the 370 TQ
    that pushed my over the edge...
    - Ray
    TQ addict...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    When I bought my 330Ci, the model designation had already been removed from the trunk lid... I gained 5 HP just from better aerodynamics!

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    edited August 2013
    Yes, that's an often overlooked tweak!

    Don't forget the door handles and mirrors too...
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Oh yeah... subbed in black grilles... they soak up the heat and the engine warms up faster.. gets me 3 more MPG!!

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Oh boy! We'll be up to 400 hp and 40 MPG the rate we're going!
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I was looking thru the inventory at a local BMW dealer and noticed something interesting. Most of the 328i models in stock have either the Luxury Line, Sport Line or M Sport Package (which adds $2100-$3500 to the 328i base price). Now that they have the 320i to fill in the entry-level slot, the 328i prices are climbing into the upper 40s and even topping the $50k mark....
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • gpb59gpb59 Member Posts: 106
    I'm considering a preowned 2012 or 2013, when I went to check it out, the USB doesn't recognize the ipod, I guess it needs a different cable like my audi. Is this something easily installed or does the car have to already come equipped with the capbility?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    I didn't observe this trend here yet (majority 328 here don't have any "line" package, but there are very few 320i on lots), but it doesn't surprise me. It seems logical.

    If one is looking for a badge at a low price, 320 is their choice, no need to go higher. This leaves 328 for buyers who like those options, like better seats (Sport/M-Sport) and/or interior inlays (Lux) and are able/not mind paying. I think over time the trend will be more pronounced as 320 replaces entry 328 trims. There will probably be fewer overall 328 in dealers inventories and their volumes will go down as a result of higher option levels.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    "Oh boy! We'll be up to 400 hp and 40 MPG the rate we're going!"

    Is this a problem?
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I've technically just "ordered" my custom equipped and colored S4 from Germany to the dealer I put $1,000 down at as a deposit/non-refundable payment.

    Until the car is delivered and we do all the paperwork, I suppose it's not technically purchased or sold.

    Of course, I'm not walking away from $1,000. Another dealer wanted a more serious $2,500 non-refundable down for an ordered S4.

    I have to admit I'd of been more comfortable had the dealer given me a "buy-order sheet" with all the numbers listed. I suppose they can't control what sales tax might be 3 months from now. The $50,000 + fees figure is written down.

    Also, he says the loyalty rebate comes from Audi of America at delivery; not from the dealer, and is a good program through 1/7/14. That gives a nice buffer should my order be delayed; all hell would break loose should they terminate that loyalty rebate early or deliver the car after that date (and the program not extended).
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Observation and opinion - don't see many 335 sedans up east (new one at least) did see one this weekend in Monaco blue? With the m sport pack and was not impressed by its looks one bit- older car looked way better similarly equipped.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Our companies 45K mile Odyssey has a warped rotor shuttering issue; seems to be a problem with Honda Acura now that multiple have mentioned it.

    They must have received a bad batch of rotors from someone.

    Have to admit, that knowledge helped tilt the scales in favor of the S4 over the TL-SH AWD. It wasn't a game changer, but when your on the fence, every little bit helps.

    With my first luxury dealership servicing experience with Audi (they used to give free maintenance for 50K miles), I feel as if problems on a luxury car are not nearly as big of a deal. If they give you a nice loaner car, it makes it even less troublesome. I look at the bright side; you get a chance to wear and tear there car's rather than your own. No miles on your own car while they work on it makes me feel like I'm in no hurry. Of course, my longest repair job came when I got an A4 loaner, which wasn't typical at my old Audi dealership. I have a feeling that's why Miramar Audi is now know as Audi of San Diego and under different ownership. I ratted them out on customer service Audi surveys as routinely giving Enterprise Kia Sephias and Chevy Aveo's instead of Audi or VW's.

    Drive it like you stole it! Heard they gave you a A6 with the sweet 3.0?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    It is Imperial Blue (dark) or Estoril Blue (Light), the latter is M-exclusive. Monaco is an old dark blue color from several years ago, prior Deep Sea Blue, which is what I have. All three (Monaco, Imperial, Deep Sea) are close.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,369
    Our companies 45K mile Odyssey has a warped rotor shuttering issue; seems to be a problem with Honda Acura now that multiple have mentioned it.....Have to admit, that knowledge helped tilt the scales in favor of the S4 over the TL-SH AWD.

    Rotor warping is a common problem for all sorts of modern automobiles, I've experienced it with nearly every car I've owned including a couple of Hondas and a couple of Audi A4s. FWIW it has only occurred once or twice in the dozen years I've had my 528i (now over 150K) nor did it happen much on the 3 Saabs I've had.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I didn't opt for a rear backup camera on my next car, probably because it cost a lot more than $1.00; which is about all that feature is worth to me. Okay, with line/lane guidance on the video, maybe $10.00.

    However, I'd pay at least 10X that amount for a front facing dash cam that records potential litigation and insurance claim issues. Or simply to send the local PD some video of really bad drivers they really need to take off the road (and do something productive rather than ticket perfectly safe driving speeders).
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Get a go pro camera and mt to dash- plenty of Russian videos on you tube with bad drivers. I'd take a backup camera any day over lane guidance.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I'm with you -- backup cameras are quite helpful, as are sensors (f+r). My wife's Infiniti has the ultimate, an around view monitor with both front and rear sensors and front and rear "projection" lines that turn with the steering wheel.

    Test drove a new Bimmer X3 with their version of the all around view monitor -- it was quite nice, too. Really helps in tight parking garages and it backing out of long driveways.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Member Posts: 2,217
    Mark, I in the last 3 months, I have had 4 infiniti's as rentals, 1 G37 sedan, 2 JX, and one whale (QX). The JX and QX's were all upgrades at no cost since National did not have the SUV I had reservation for. All three had a lot of options, they had the "bird eye view" which was pretty cool, it was a big help when driving the QX (The Whale.) The front and rear senors where helpful when back up as well as the rear view camera, the QX is HUGE!!!
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    You know what else is huge.. The money I saved by switching to geico.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    ahhh, I misspoke and mis-wrote.

    I mean a back up camera is useful when the program draws lines on the screen that turn with the steering wheel which makes backing up into a parking space while turning like a video game. I don't back up into parking spaces all too often though.

    Still, I've done fine for nearly 20 years without it.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Yeah those lines are useful for spots- I also like the general camera for watching and seeing kids - but that's just me I guess
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I'll admit that larger behemoth vehicles like Minivans and SUV's benefit more from back up cameras.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Benefit more maybe - but shouldn't it be standard equipment on all cars ? Honda accord has it standard, I know consumer reports wants it standard to all, seems like its more important than lane monitoring or even blindside system someone was hyping.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    The biggest feature my Acura TSX had that my BMW 328xi doesn't is a backup camera. I miss it!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Read an article this morning BMW is having issues getting oem parts to dealers because of a shortage on parts- this is tarnishing the brand overseas as customers with broken rigs can't get them fixed and BMW (overseas) not giving out loaners. I remember something similar happened to Audi / Vw as they had failing coils in the turbo 4 - huge lines to get anything done even oil changes at dealerships as a result.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The parts shortage was created by the implementation of a new supply chain logistics IT system that started in 2009. They are a year behind in implementing and it has affected their ability to manufacture parts on time. Unfortunately, once the switch is thrown, it's not easy to turn back.

    It reminds me of a company in my industry that suffered a fire at their main factory. They had plans of implementing a new manufacturing IT system around the same time. They rebuilt the factory and implemented the new system concurrently. Needless to say it took them close to a year to get things running smoothly.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    but shouldn't it be standard equipment on all cars ?
    _____________________

    I absolutely don't think so, and would be 100% against that. 100% option availability is OK. Those that want to increase the weight (which reduces gas mileage by the way) and add cameras, computers, wiring, cabling, and monitors to their cars, by all means do so and pay for it.

    But it should not be forced upon those that don't want or need it.

    We are beginning to make cars so safe no one can afford to buy one anymore.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Member Posts: 198
    Sween- Are you going to swap the G35 for the Q?
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Yep you are right lets strip the abs and airbags out as well.

    A mainstream sedan that sells very well, is putting them as standard equipment - nuff said
  • sweendogysweendogy Member Posts: 1,310
    Will watch reviews and access pricing.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I find ABS and Airbags useful (although I've never had an airbag actually be used for me; knock on wood).

    ABS has been used countless times though; sometimes just for fun in an empty parking lot.

    The Accord does have backup camera as standard now, but the 2013 is a new feature-laden model from Honda.

    I actually considered the Accord Sport and the S4 lately. I could order the S4 without a backup camera, and did so. Not that the camera was the deciding factor, but I appreciated not being forced into it by Audi. Audi got my money; Honda didn't; nuff said.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Sign In or Register to comment.