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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    You'll probably never have to use the airbags over your entire life. But if it snows where you live and you drive everyday, vsc will definitely bail you out at least a couple of times
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    According to the Friday, December 23, 2005 issue of USA Today, the Town and Country minivan is #10 on the list of the ten worst vehicles for resale value after five years. The T & C will be worth about 23% of its original retail value. The Odyssey, on the other hand, will be worth about 50%. There is good news for T & C owners: the Freestar, Uplander and Montana SV-6 are all worse.

    You really do get what you pay for.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have to deal with this every day. We cringe when a Domestic mini van pulls in. The people wanting to trade them in are usually armed with an array of internet printouts so they can show me what their wonderful trade is "worth".

    Trouble is, nobody wants them. the dealers that sell them new are already choking on a lot full of used ones that aren't selling. The wholesalers don't want them for the same reasons.

    And, for this reason, a good used Chrysler or Windstar, if in good condition can be a great buy as a used car!

    People just are afraid of them.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    AGREED!

    If my financial circumstances were such that I could not afford/or prepare to pay much for a minivan, I would buy a used domestic for its poor, low resale value. Under these circumstances, my priority/preference for a superior mechanical performing minivan at a higher used price would be severely diminished.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    The new 62TE is out in numerous test mule forms and they are almost done with their 250,000 mile test. It looks like the 2007 minivan platforms will get this new transmission.

    Look for the possibility that Plymouth may come back as an entry level with the Chrysler brand moving significantly upscale.

    Dusty
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    DCX up 34,506 from 2004, Honda up 19,210. Draw you own conclusions.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    The car rental rental lots are awash with them because of their el cheapo fleet price for their similar level performance.

    The conclusions are indeed very extremely obvious!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    "According to the Friday, December 23, 2005 issue of USA Today, the Town and Country minivan is #10 on the list of the ten worst vehicles for resale value after five years."

    But there are only 14 passenger vans sold in the US.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    You'll probably never have to use the airbags over your entire life.

    Lets hope I nevre do!!

    But if it snows where you live and you drive everyday, vsc will definitely bail you out at least a couple of times

    Oh I think it's a great new feature hopefully its all they say.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Please do not say I misquoted. This was not a list of minivans ONLY. It was the TEN VEHICLES WITH THE WORST RESALE VALUE. I do try to make factual statements.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Thanks, you beat me to the punch!
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Checking the rental fleets in the Chicago area. Hertz GM, Ford, Dollar DCX, Thrifty DCX, Avis GM, Budget Ford, Enterprise DCX. Can't believe that Dollar, Thrifty and Enterprise buy that many minivans. Do you have anything to back up your claim?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Would you buy a used GM from a Ford dealer? Or a used DCX from a GM dealer. I imagine all Hondas traded in on another Honda command a higher price than one at a DCX Ford or GM dealer. I know I would be suspicious of another makers car on a used car lot, maybe that last owner had enough problems to trade for another brand?
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    What is interesting is that I have never come across a single Ody for rental during my almost 100 minivan rentals from the rental companies you mentioned. If there was, it would be my choice to use.

    The conclusion is obvious: The Ody is not available for sale cheap as fleet for rentals as the other brands because the market is willing to pay a higher price for it. The true market value(TMV) of the competing brands is that with the rebates included. The buying public is used to employee prices for domestic vehicles; the employee price has become the TMV, so rebates must be used - any buyer who is not aware of this must have been hiding in the caves like Osama. But even then, he receives CNN world news from his satellite TV!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Why not? This doesn't mean the car traded in was a bad car.

    A lot of people just want a change. I will say, I think the number one trade in on Odysseys is a Chrysler mini-van.

    We wholesale the bulk of them but if we get an especially nice, low mileage one we will put it on our lot. Thye usually end up going to the auction after they sit for a month or two.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    So a person who rented 100 minivans can dismiss a 34,000 to 19,000 difference as all rental car sales when only 3 of 9 rental companies buy DCX, and those thre are NOT the largest rental fleets. Boo Hoo that you can't rent an Odyssey.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    When you outsell the competition by 2 to 1 chances are 2 to 1 that the traded vehicle will be a DCX.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I traded my '03 Silhouette in on an '06 Odyssey. The Honda dealer sold it within a few days. Maybe because it was almost pristine and was MSRP three years before at $33,000+ and sold for about $12,500? He did have a bunch of used Odysseys on the lot, maybe five. An '03 Odyssey with less equipment and mileage than my Silhouette was selling for $17,000 - $18,000. The '03 Odyssey sold new for about $27,000 VS the $29,000 I paid for the Silly.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Yes, the other 6 rental car companies are the only reasons the GM and Ford minivans are alive, FOR NOW.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    Please re-read my posts I never said "Only minivans were in the bottom ten residual value cars. What I said is there are only 14 minivans sold in the US. I believe it was isellhondas that said THe number one trade in on the Odyssey was a DCX. They at least taught me to read in grammar school.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    Means the GM/Chrysler vans are just cheaper for me to buy used. Take the gray 1999 Odyssey EX, 80K on it, very clean, selling for $8K that I looked at today. I can get a same year, same mileage, same condition Venture LS LWB or Grand Caravan ES for less than half that.

    The only way I'd buy an Odyssey would pretty much be new or demo. Stupid high resale values of Hondas and Toyotas mean they're too expensive to consider used. If I have to get a van that is two to three years older in order to match price with a GM/Chrysler product, forget it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    To each his own. This is why I think a nice uesed domestic can be a lot of car for the money.

    Just make sure it's in good shape and not a high miler.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    "According to the Friday, December 23, 2005 issue of USA Today, the Town and Country minivan is #10 on the list of the ten worst vehicles for resale value after five years."

    he didn't say just minivans, did he?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Same sad resale value on a 2002 Honda Accord. :sick: Probably the same thing with the overhyped Honda Odyssey. :lemon:
    The Honda dealer was NOT willing to offer the "supposed" trade in value when my friend tried to trade his 2002 Honda Accord in on a NEW 2005 Honda Accord at the dealer where he bought his 2002 Accord.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Rental companies would purchase the Odyssey instead of the DC minivans. :blush:
    The FACT that there are no Odysseys for rent indicates they COST more to own than do DC minivans. Rental companies exist to earn money and don't care what the label on the vehicle reads. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You seem to have all of the answers.

    As I understand it, Honda will not sell to the rental companies. Some individual dealers do from time to time.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The rental companies are also buying on fleet deals, far cheaper than anythig you or even those with employee pricing can buy. When I was in the corporate world, the fleet purchasing/maintenance department head repoted to me. I was fairly well involved with fleet buying, which we could do because the volume of cars we bought a year (about 500). Even at those low numbers compared to what rental companies buy, we could get a simple Chevy Lumina for about a grand less than a dealer could buy one after all kickbacks, etc. The manufacturers are very aggresive with these types of sales for two reasons. One it moves vehicles at a profit. And secondly, it puts vehicles on the street for consumers to drive. Toyota didn't participate in these programs for many years, but now do with some of their cars and apparently some vans.

    From what I've gathered, Honda doesn't do any fleeting. We could never buy a Toyota or Honda anything at a fleet price. We did buy about 30 Camrys back in the early 90's but basically paid the same as buying from a dealer. Our conclusion of some very limited testing was the Toyotas had a better repair history and likely could have had a longer service interval. We were running Luminas/Taurus/Intrepids on 100k miles service intervals. But because of the aggresive fleet prices up front, we'd have to go to over 150k miles to break-even due to the upfront cost. I would say if you're buying from a dealer, the long-term cost would be about the same between the brands.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Probably true because I do NOT sell a particular brand and will buy the brand that gives the BEST value. ;)
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    Probably true because I do NOT sell a particular brand and will buy the brand that gives the BEST value.

    Which brand will that be Hans??

    You change faster your mind fast.

    Examples

    Honda vs Sienna post 2758
    you wrote

    Since this is Odyssey vs Sienna, back to the subject. I was ready to buy a new 2005 Odyssey but all allocation has been sold. Test drove both a 2004 Sienna and 2005 Odyssey and because of the more responsive transmission and engine combination of the Sienna, the purchase of an Ody is in limbo.

    Then on DCX vs Honda post 4579

    you wrote

    I have very closely examined the major, nice minivans. The Odyssey is THE most expensive while a Caravan can be purchased for almost as little as any but can be ordered with almost all nice features.
    This is an Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler forum but another brand name must be included to make the comparison complete.
    If cost were NO factor, I would buy either a loaded Odyssey EX-L-Nav-RES or a loaded Sienna XLE Limited as they feel more luxurious than the loaded GC SXT or T&C Limited. (No Ody Touring because of PAX and No Sienna XLE Limited AWD because of run-flats).
    Since cost IS a factor, the DC minivans are appealing because DC provides many important features at a lower cost.
    The Ody outperforms the DC minivans. (But in my test drive, the Sienna was quicker with a more responsive transmission and engine).
    DC minivans had a bad reputation for transmission failure in the 90's but now it is the Odyssey that has problems....based on reading Ody owners postings here in the Town Hall. If I wanted the minivan built by the company with the best reliability history, the Sienna wins over both the Odyssey and DC minivans.

    Wow I'm confused over what you want to buy Hans!! Since I've been on here you've gone back and fortch between at least these 3 and probably more!!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Both postings you quoted are still valid. ;)
    I am not a one brand person. The many vehicles I have purchased had formerly been included in my Town Hall Profile.
    Salesmen at Dodge, Toyota, and Honda have all been friendly, informative, and NOT pushy. Dodge dealer is MOST convenient with the best inventory. Toyota dealer has 2nd best inventory. Honda dealer wants a $ 500 NON-refundable deposit to put my name on a waiting list.
    The 2006 Kia Sedona has a very impressive list of standard equipment with improved power and EPA fuel ratings. The Saturn Relay purchased by a Town Hall member was a VERY GOOD deal so add # 5 to my shopping list. ;)
    As written earlier, I was ready to put my name on a waiting list for a 2006 Odyssey EX with a REFUNDABLE $ 500 deposit. Since the Honda dealerships have an arrogant NON-Refundable Deposit policy, I am NOT on a waiting list for the Odyssey even though I feel it is comparable in value to a Sienna LE or Grand Caravan SXT...BUT not if it costs any more than the Sienna LE or Grand Caravan SXT. ;););)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Those used Odysseys will SIT on the lot for a long time since they are NOT worth the $17,000-$18,000 asking price :sick: while your Olds Silhouette was worth the asking price. ;)
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Let's not forget one very important feature on the Dodge/Chrysler that Honda doesn't have, unless they added it this year. The battery saver. I remember quite a few Honda owners were having dead batteries by leaving a overhead light on. They automatically go off on Chrysler vans after about 20 min.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    Would you buy a used GM from a Ford dealer? Or a used DCX from a GM dealer. I imagine all Hondas traded in on another Honda command a higher price than one at a DCX Ford or GM dealer. I know I would be suspicious of another makers car on a used car lot, maybe that last owner had enough problems to trade for another brand?


    I know for a fact that some dealers will buy a fairly new competitor's car, van or truck and stick it up front on their lot to make it look like a owner got rid of it soon after buying it, so it makes it look like their product is so much better.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Let's not forget one very important feature on the Dodge/Chrysler that Honda doesn't have, unless they added it this year. The battery saver. I remember quite a few Honda owners were having dead batteries by leaving a overhead light on. They automatically go off on Chrysler vans after about 20 min.

    I believe it is on the 2005+ Odyssey.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You know this for a "fact"?

    Really?

    Do you seriously think a dealer would invest money in a slow selling used car?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I believe it is on the 2005+ Odyssey.

    It's not. Only if a door is left open will the lights turn out. If you manually push a light on and leave it, it stays on until battery drains. It's a shortcoming IMHO, but there are several things the Ody is missing that I'm used to. They weren't enough to keep me from buying one. If Honda hadn't left a couple obvious things off the Ody, I wouldn't have nothing to complain about and that wouldn't be any fun ;) The DC lacks in areas more important to me so the Ody was the winner.

    And even if merging at safe speeds is childish racing, I'll plead guilty all day long.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    Rental companies would purchase the Odyssey instead of the DC minivans.
    The FACT that there are no Odysseys for rent indicates they COST more to own than do DC minivans. Rental companies exist to earn money and don't care what the label on the vehicle reads.

    Car companies make a conscience decision to sell to rental fleets. I remember GM saying they would NOT put the new Malibu into rental fleets. Lo and behold, lots of them are now rentals. Having vehicles in rental fleets lowers their resale value. There is also a perception of disposable or cheap when a car is a rental.

    The only place I have seen Siennas and some Odysseys is as NYC taxi cabs.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    If you buy CAR X w/80K miles for $8K, or only $4K for a similar CAR Y, BUT over the next few years of driving you put in more $$$ for repairs CAR Y, then you're a lot better off buying the higher quality CAR X. From 80-150K miles, which do you think will cost you less to repair, have less breakdowns in strange places, and have less trips to the shop? Not only might you save $$ overall because of repair costs, but what's the value in your own time just dealing with the repairs?
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    "The only place I have seen Siennas and some Odysseys is as NYC taxi cabs."

    As part of my close to 100 minivan rentals, I have rented Siennas at National/Alamo at Chicago ORD airport. Some of these had FL license plates - so I assume Alamo has them there as well.

    I have seen Sienna and Ody taxis in Las Vegas.
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    You know this for a "fact"?

    Really?

    Do you seriously think a dealer would invest money in a slow selling used car?

    Yes, I know it for a fact. My cousin's wife works for a new car dealership and said that is exactly what they do.

    Sure they would. They know they'll get rid of it and they certainly can afford it. Nice trick to make their cars/trucks/minivans look better than the competition.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    I missed this article, is there a link available?

    I'd be interested to know what pricing they used for their comparison.....Did they use MSRP? or actual selling price. My bet would be MSRP since it's hard to gather selling price.

    As they say.....figures don't lie but liars figure.
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    But there are only 14 passenger vans sold in the US.

    Honda
    DCX 2
    Ford 2
    GM 3
    Kia
    Toyota
    VW????

    What am I missing???
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    What am I missing???

    Ok we won't go there but here are the passenger vans sold in 2005.

    Chevy-Astro/Uplander/Venture
    Chrysler-Town and country
    Dodge-Grand caravan/Caravan
    Ford-Freestar
    Honda-Odyssey
    Buick-Terraza
    Kia-Sedona
    Mazda-MPV
    Mercury-Monterey
    Nissan-Quest
    Pontiac-Montana
    Saturn-Relay
    Toyota-Sienna
    I got 15!!
    I left out large/cargo vans but heres that list
    Express/Sprinter/Econoline/Safari/Savana So there's 5 more!
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I think it was MSRP but cannot say for sure. I agree with you that it would be difficult to do from selling price.

    Have you searched the USA Today web site? I do not know if they archive those stories. I read it from the actual newspaper, not online.
  • dustykdustyk Member Posts: 2,926
    The recent statement about the T&C and any other car, truck, or mini-van was based on prediction, not actual performance. In addition, there are a number of sources for automotive "resale" valve and they seldomly agree.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-12-22-resale-usat_x.htm
  • marine2marine2 Member Posts: 1,155
    2005's Resale Value
    Chrysler Honda
    $18,900 $24,000
    $25,300 28.700

    2003's Resale Value
    $14,400 $17,700
    19,250 19,850
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Except...

    Domestics are always "back of book" cars. That means, yes, the "books" say it's worth 15,000 but nobody will pay close to that for them.

    I have to deal with this everyday.
  • artgpoartgpo Member Posts: 483
    I find it an irony that you are actually in the car business yet some on here question your veracity. Maybe you should change your name to "isellcars" for more credibility? ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Of course people would NOT want to buy a Chrysler from a Honda dealer. People also would NEVER buy a Honda from a Chrysler dealer. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Right, because they are two different buyers likely looking for two different needs to be met (cargo vs performance and technology). Many buyers will get more use out of stow and go than Variable Cylinder Management. Many others wouldn't think of buuying a pushrod engine that is outpowered by GM (by 35 hp) in the new millenium. Different buyers, different perspectives, different choices made.
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