Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

03accordman · August 2005

again, a V6 accord stick would out gun any 325 stick to 60 (not comparing the cars in any manner!). Accord coupe has been timed in the high 5s to 60 by many magazines/testers.

03accordman · August 2005

the Bimmers are not just about 0-60 numbers, more about ride/handling/steering.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Wow really I never knew that the V6 Accord Coupe was that fast ? It only has 240Hp doesnt it ?

ivorypearlg · August 2005

I also think that Infiniti G35 also has great ride handling and steering... The only thing Infiniti lags is a great appointed interior and that German heritage

fedlawman · August 2005

The Infiniti, even with almost 50 hp more than the BMW, still manages to be a mere 0.3 secs faster to 60 MPH and through the 1/4 mile?!?!

I don't know about you, but I can't tell 0.3 secs from the seat of my pants, and dynamically, the 330i blows the G35 away in terms of ride, steering, and poise.

The G35 offers tremendous performance/luxury bang for the buck, but in my opinion, the 330i is the superior drivers car.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Well I think the G has great ride even thou I have a 03 coupe, but when I went in for a scheduled service they gave me a G35X and the ride was great. I also test drove the 330I also good ride handling and overall goodness to put it in short terms. But I also believe that Infiniti did an excellent job on the G and even thou I could go and buy a 750I I wont I am comfy in my G.

potemkin · August 2005

Isn't this the point in the conversation where somebody is supposed to mention (wholly outside the context the subject, mind you) the WRX STi?

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Is there any Luxury in that WRX STi ? Didnt Saab and Sub merge or somthing ? Hopefully Subaru can give Saab the performance they need.

blueguydotcom · August 2005

Wow, it's in the handling the Infiniti really lost me. Wish the G35 felt more planted to the tarmac.

not sure what heritage means regarding cars. they're just cars. they exist right now. i don't believe cars have heritage or cache.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

LOL my point was trying to be made that people think that German engineered cars are superior to Japanese and american cars !

03accordman · August 2005

BMW does seem to manage to do more with less less power. I read somewhere that the BMW CEO said that they are not going to shy away from the HP war, but it doesn't seem that they are taking that route. In most segments today, BMWs are lagging behind other makes in HP & Torque figures, though, like i said earlier, they are able to get more out of what they have.

I am looking to get a 325 in the near future, and went to take a peek a few days back. The car looks gorgeous to me, but the rear seat is too small and low for an adult to sit comfortable, and this is a requirement for me. I will go again this weekend for a second look and then decide.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Does anyone know the engine sizes for the BMW 530I and BMW 545I ? I was just wondering because I believe Motor Trend test results had the 545I pull ahead of the Infiniti M45 ? I know the two engines in the Infiniti M class are 280hp 3.5 V6 and a 315hp 4.5 V8...

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Did you bother to take a look at the new Lexus IS350 on the internet. It will be out this fall. Also did you look at the G or the Saab ? Look at everything before you make a decision

kyfdx · August 2005

The '05 545i has 325 hp

The '06 530i has 255 hp

There is a new 550i coming out soon, to replace the 545i, but I'm not sure of it's horsepower rating...

kdshapiro · August 2005

"I read somewhere that the BMW CEO said that they are not going to shy away from the HP war, but it doesn't seem that they are taking that route."

My take is they are not shying away from it, but you're not going to see a high powered engine in a $30K automobile.

Regarding some 0-60 times. I will grant you, some mags post impressive times from autos you wouldn't expect.

So I amend my statement to read, the BMW will loose them as soon as the other vehicle goes to turn the wheel.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

So the benchmark 5 does have a bigger engine then the benchmark M I wondered why the 5 was faster. I love the 545 and was going to buy one then saw the interior and it turned me off !

03accordman · August 2005

I believe that the 530 is a 3.0L, and the 545 is a 4.5L

kdshapiro · August 2005

Yes, good point. As much as I love German engineering I just can't wait to get an Sti. That will be my next car. Forget the luxury, I want to beat you guys to the next stoplight.

bmwe90 · August 2005

I purchased an Infiniti G35 :lemon: soon after they were released. It was in the shop for 69 days within the first 8 months of ownership. Nissan was horrible to deal with in any respect. I like to think of it this way: McDonalds can hype up their hamburgers calling them "premium" (like they do everything) and the numbers are there to support it - you get 6 whole oz. of beef - a whole ounce more than the competition. But then you realize the competition is a 5 diamond restaurant offering a burger as well - you can see where I'm going. I recently purchased a new 3 series. It easily makes it way to 100 without the steering wheel shaking as in the G. the wind doesn't whistle through the cut rate seals on the doors as it did in the G, and finally when I brake, I get smooth, modulated pedal action which brings me to a quick stop. In the G, the whole car shook from the severely warped rotors which they tried to fix on more than 5 occasions. So if you value smooth and quick acceleration, a solidly built car, and powerfully smooth brakes, by all means spend the few extra bucks and purchase the 3. If you can live with the fact that you paid almost as much for a car that is manufactured by a company who's claim to fame is the Sentra - and you dont mind cost cutting measures literally surrounding you - choose the G. In defense of the G, It is probably the car that comes the closest to the Bimmer as far as handling, but it has a long, long way to go before many people would choose it over a 3 series.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

I believe that BMW doesnt have horsepower as a core value they rather span out and try to make everything a little bit better not just one thing. In there case handling, ride ect. I couldnt believe it the lexus IS350 with a 3.5 V6 pumping out 305 Hp and 275 lb-ft torque I believe. They want to win !

03accordman · August 2005

"My take is they are not shying away from it, but you're not going to see a high powered engine in a $30K automobile"

You would think he meant having the highest HP in every segment it competes in.

kdshapiro · August 2005

"They want to win !"

If you don't like the HP in the new 3 and want to win, you can certainly wait for the new E90 M3 with the 400hp V8. If that's to tame you can get the M5/M6 with the V10.

kyfdx · August 2005

I think the 545i is actually a 4.4 litre.... and the new 550i will be a 4.8 litre..

I guess 544i and 548i, just don't roll off the tongue...

shipo · August 2005

530i -- 3.0 liters -- 255 HP -- 220 lb-ft
545i -- 4.4 liters -- 325 HP -- 330 lb-ft
550i -- 4.8 liters -- 360 HP -- 360 lb-ft

Best Regards,
Shipo

03accordman · August 2005

Well yeah, but if the IS doesn't handle as well as the bimmer, they aren't going to get those buyers.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

I also purchased a G when they were first released and had to wait for it ... 4 months actually and I never had one problem well actually one but it was the rear fold seat latch that broke no biggie. I guess you did have a lemon and every car manufactor does except maybe the exotic hand built cars. Infiniti also was # 1 in relibality 2003 i believe and where was BMW ? Not in the top 10 !

kyfdx · August 2005

Guess that takes care of the horsepower wars...

03accordman · August 2005

Not really!

ivorypearlg · August 2005

If what Lexus said about the IS350 is true BMW is going to need more then what its got to remain King of the class !

kyfdx · August 2005

335i.. turbo six...

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Thank SAAB for that turbo ! Well I have a feeling Infiniti will sneak attack with a bad [non-permissible content removed] sedan version of the GT-R Coupe. Did I hear a Twin-Turbo V6 with 450Hp, in the air ? you can also expect an early redesign of the G esp with all these new releases in the class coming out .

ivorypearlg · August 2005

What will this turbo six be putting out you think ? I think no more then 335hp

kyfdx · August 2005

Then, you'll have the new M3 with the V-8..

Doesn't matter... we passed up my budget right around 215 hp..... :P

kyfdx · August 2005

Not sure.... they get 333 hp out of the current M3 with a 3.2 litre straight-six... So, I don't know why they couldn't approach 350-375 hp with a turbo-six...

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Its a poss... I think the new GT-R is going to be overpriced thou. They said in the 70's which I dont know if I would pay ! What will it be up with the M6 ?

bmwe90 · August 2005

The class is defined by much more than 0-60 times. I'm not entirely convinced BMW has sweaty palms worrying about some car companies that Japan cooked up in the late 80's and early 90's. And let's say one BMW exec does - I would guess he's probably head of the M department. I think the fact that lexus has only one vehicle which we can really consider "performance oriented" while BMW has not only numerous performance oriented vehicles (any of the larger output engines on all series) but several "super high performance" vehicles (M3, M5, & M6) indicates that lexus is trying its best to get a foot in the proverbial door. Thats about all lexus has managed to get in so far.

blueguydotcom · August 2005

Did you bother to take a look at the new Lexus IS350 on the internet. It will be out this fall. Also did you look at the G or the Saab ? Look at everything before you make a decision

The IS350 has a much smaller back seat than a 3 series.

The G35 is best if he wants room.

Saab...uh why is a Saab mentioned in the same breath as RWD cars?

taxesquire · August 2005

If it's sporty, it belongs in this thread. You're not discounting all automatics, as opposed to manual transmission vehicles, are you?

blueguydotcom · August 2005

I purchased an Infiniti G35 soon after they were released. It was in the shop for 69 days within the first 8 months of ownership. Nissan was horrible to deal with in any respect....if you can live with the fact that you paid almost as much for a car that is manufactured by a company who's claim to fame is the Sentra - and you dont mind cost cutting measures literally surrounding you - choose the G. In defense of the G, It is probably the car that comes the closest to the Bimmer as far as handling, but it has a long, long way to go before many people would choose it over a 3 series.

I can say the same about my 330i. 4 months and BMW's current "solution" for the common 3.0 4k engine hesitation is rather draconian: they disable the second set of valves so the engine loses top end power. But it no longer hesitates, they said to me with a straight face. Great, I've been to BMW 4 times in 4 months and this is their solution for a known problem with the 3.0 engine?

Every company builds some problem cars....

ivorypearlg · August 2005

I am sorry I should have not say the company as a whole. But I am pretty sure that the IS350 will be a good contender against the 330I and the G35. Yes BMW was around a lot longer then any of the Japanese auto makers but it doesn't make them any better ! Is Mercedes - Benz better because they were the first auto manufactor ? I believe that BMW has more then sweaty palms. Figure Infiniti GT-R is going to take the M6 and then a high performance version of the M45 with the same TT-450Hp V8 will take the M5. The Infiniti Flagship is holding them back. Then all they need is a couple of convert's and you got yourself a full line up ready to go head to head with BMW. Give it to 2008.

kdshapiro · August 2005

"Figure Infiniti GT-R is going to take the M6 and then a high performance version of the M45 with the same TT-450Hp V8 will take the M5."

By the time the GTR comes around BMW will be out with a 600+hp monster. Of course you may be paying $6/gallon to fill up the GT-R or 600hp monster, but that's another story.

What a company has done in the past helps it's future. I'm sure you would like to see BMW lose, but it's probably not gonna happen.

As far as Mercedes as a car company, they still build the best cars to get in the drivers seat, with the widest variety. As I said previously on these boards, if MB is going downhill then why do I see so damn many new high-priced MBs in my neighborhood?

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Did he say he needed RWD maybe he lives in snowy climates the Saab will plow thru the snow while the RWD IS350 and the 3'S RWD and the RWD Infin will be stuck in the garage. Look at the Acura TL too.. AWD G is great also.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

I figured low 300's because of the new M only having 400 ponies

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Yes but there 600+ monster of a car will be a lot more then $70,000 ! The price will more like be $170,000. Mercedes is not going down hill ! I never said that most of the people in my neighborhood drive Mercedes.

bmwe90 · August 2005

We should really categorize and prioritize problems. My Infiniti was undriveable at times - leaving me stranded often, which makes the problem with your 330 pale in comparison. I would have at times given anything to experience engine hesitation at 4k. I was put into a rental car that in order to maintain pace with traffic and not pose a hazard had to pretty much stay above 4k at all times. The law firm who handled my lemon law case repeatedly told me that Infiniti was the worst company to deal with. I was turned down by several attorneys who when they found out my car was branded Infiniti, wanted nothing to do with it. Call a lemon law attorney and drop the name Infiniti and watch them run. They are hell on wheels. Meanwhile I was in the court parking lot the day I received my handsome settlement (even the devil himself sometimes gets caught, and when he does boy do they make him pay) and guess who shows up in a M3- the corporate attorney for Infiniti. I guess actions do speak louder than words...

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Lets start somthing new cause I am tired of talking about BMW....

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Thats funny because when my scheduled mantaince comes around along with the time the fold down seat broke I received a current Infiniti model and I know The the G35X or the FX45 they usually give me is not working its [non-permissible content removed] off to keep up with highway traffic usually it is the highway traffic trying to keep up with me ! One more thing wouldn't he be representing Nissan Corp. since Nissan is the parent company.

bmwe90 · August 2005

I got tired of talking about them before I bought 2 german cars.

It's funny because after I got my first I couldn't stop talking about them. If you want to still talk about cars in the class may I recommend another top performer that now deserves a little newfound conversation. The MB C350. I just got the E350 and the engine is great, i can only imagine it in an even lighter, more nible car.

ivorypearlg · August 2005

Yes the new engine 268 hp V-6 right ? Sounds great when I looked at them the engine was awful small . That was a big turn down !

bmwe90 · August 2005

I got a complimentary Dodge Neon from the 90's from my lovely dealership. Oh- I lied, one time they gave me an old Sentra to drive around in for 36 days. I'm not sure about traffic struggling to keep up with me :confuse: but I was struggling to justify why I was making payments on a G and driving a Neon.

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