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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    I was under the impression that the Cayenne was one of the least reliable SUVs out there....

    Porsche actually has one of the worst JD Power "Initial Quality" ratings, but also has one of the best "Dependability" ratings.... so go figure. :confuse:
  • I was talking about Porsches, not a VW SUV. That's not a Porsche. That's just an embarassingly ugly junk pile...just like the X3/X5.

    Porsche cars are scary reliable. Porsche trucks...well they're VWs so you can't expect much.
  • Errr, sorry, not buying. The hill has to be both very steep and very slippery before it becomes an issue.

    hmm, if the is not very steep or very slippery, both AWD/RWD and All-Season/Winter-tires can handle it all, what's the point of the discussion again?? We are talking about extreme driving conditions where traction is an issue; otherwise, what's the point of the discussion?

    You're making this up as you go aren't you. Obviously you don't have any actual experience with buying and driving on winter tires.

    Thank you for letting me on the news. I have had experience with winter tires ever since my 1982 BMW 528e; it's been more than half a dozen cars since then for me.
  • wco81wco81 Posts: 495
    Yeah but if you have to do repairs, it probably costs a mint.

    Even maintenance is probably costly at Porsche specialist shops.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    Supposedly prototype to make its debut at NY auto show, with 330 hp. Host of questions:

    Its engine answers the volley from Lexus, but will it have the chassis to match 3? Infiniti fans certainly expect so, since it reportedly borrows a lot from upcoming GTR, and considering chassis of 5 and M are very closely matched.

    Most people don't need 330 horses, will there be a G25? What will Infiniti do to invigorate its V8 4.5 to put distance between its V6 and V8?

    There's an obvious power war between Lexus and Infiniti, will Acura have to ditch its SOHC to join the war? What will Audi and MB have to do with their V6's, or risk being left behind? BMW might just want to do its own thing with its I6.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    Its engine answers the volley from Lexus, but will it have the chassis to match 3? Infiniti fans certainly expect so, since it reportedly borrows a lot from upcoming GTR, and considering chassis of 5 and M are very closely matched.

    I do not think Infiniti needs to answer to Lexus. Why does the chassis need to match 3?
    GT-R has a pretty good chassis of its own, and I do not think GT-T should be compared to 3. It should be compared to 911 or Z06. I think BMW 5 and M5 have the same chassis.

    Most people don't need 330 horses, will there be a G25? What will Infiniti do to invigorate its V8 4.5 to put distance between its V6 and V8?

    I do not think 330 is enough, I need 400 :P
    Too many cars and engines will hurt your sales because of the huge overhead.

    There's an obvious power war between Lexus and Infiniti, will Acura have to ditch its SOHC to join the war? What will Audi and MB have to do with their V6's, or risk being left behind? BMW might just want to do its own thing with its I6.

    I think the power war is among all the manufacturers not just between Lexus and Infiniti because it is the simplest way to give you cars more values without raising the price.
    Honda will only offer V8 when there is a need, and again, there is not a need not now or ever on the street.
    Audi A3 has a new V6, and MB E350 has a new V6 as well.
    BMW 3 series have a new V6 too. No one is left behind.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    BMW 3 series have a new V6 too.

    In fact it is a new inline 6 cylinder engine.

    Now I guess the most exciting new car worth waiting for will be the Infiniti G37?
  • do not think Infiniti needs to answer to Lexus. Why does the chassis need to match 3?

    Because right now the G35's chassic can't compare to the e90 or even e46. The chassis, high ride height and roughness of the VQ drove me to BMW. If Infiniti can fix those issues, I'll gladly come back to Nissan.


    I do not think 330 is enough, I need 400
    Too many cars and engines will hurt your sales because of the huge overhead.


    Tell that to BMW, MB, Lexus, and Audi. A 3.0 G35 with 240 hp would sell just fine. A 3.5 with 320 would be the next bump. Everybody but Acura and Infiniti exist using the dual engine sales model.
  • Having done much research and quite a few test drives, it's down to the line between Acura TL and Lexus ES 330, but the issue that might tip the balance is MPG and gasoline. Given that gas may well rise to back to post-Katrina levels, it seems to make more sense to go for Lexus - with slightly higher MPG and a regular gas consumer to boot, sacrificing the slightly greater responsiveness of the TL. Anyone care to weigh in on this?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    You're worrying about gas prices in this price range of cars?
  • mwhittmwhitt Posts: 69
    i don't see any real difference on the MPG. maybe you see something different than what Edmunds is showing. so it comes down to premium vs regular, which is what $0.25 a gallon, if that. what are you saving, couple of hundred a year if you are 15K a year driver.

    if you're indifferent between the cars, go for the lower gas costs i guess. i wouldn't think that if you can lay out over $30k out the door for a car, that this savings would mean a whole heck of lot. i would say throw out the gas issue, and pick the car you like the most. seems like a non-starter to me.
  • i dont get why you worry about gas prices. It's gone up for a while and people are still driving like crazy. The diff between 87 and 91 is $.20. that's only 2.50 diff for every 10 gallons. MPG also depends on how you drive as well. I can get better MPG in the TL than other ppl can in the ES. I think my 330i sucks a lot of gas but i dont complain. I mean if you're gonan spend 30-40k on a car, what's another $15 a month???
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    elliedog,

    IMO, I really enjoyed test driving the ES and thought it was luxurious, solid, and a comfortable drive. That being said, yes you need only put in regular gasoline in the Lexus but to say that the Acura has only "slightly greater responsiveness" is a misstatement in my opinion. The TL although FWD, is in a different category than the ES as far as performance is concerned. BTW, are you prepared to spend 30,000-35,000 this year on a vehicle that is getting remodeled for 06?
  • jinvajinva Posts: 41
    I agree with all of the points made by those who commented before me. I would particularly emphasize that there is no "slightly greater responsiveness" of the TL over the ES. It's significantly greater responsiveness IMHO. If you are a very conservative driver and are more interested in a soft ride than handling, maybe the Lexus is the best choice for you.
  • The ES is getting todally redesigned in Spring 2006 so be care of that...you will be buying a car ready to be redesigned soon.

    The new ones will have better power, more features, and hopefully a better sound system as the base in the ES was nothing great.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    You can put regular in your TL is you want and it may reduce its performance to ES330 levels. Mileage will probably drop also. I agree with the others, these cars are really not the same at all in terms of driving dynamics.
  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    Why is it that anytime we do a comparo discussion, we only compare NEW cars?

    Why not compare a brand new CTS with a thre-year old 7-series, for example? (or something that would cost about the same as the new CTS)

    I know some of us only want new. But some of us are in the "I have 40K to spend on a car and I want something cool and sporty and luxurious." We'd consider a used car.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Fire up a new discussion on that subject if it interests you! ;)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,290
    Because the vast majority of people on this (& related) boards lease. The reasons vary, but the fact that being without warranty coverage on European cars in this price range makes sphincters tighten is very high on the hit parade (right behind not being able to actually afford the car in the first place).

    Me, I buy cars. I'm with you all the way.

    Buying an off-lease 36-39 month old car is a very good idea, but only for those with good long-term reliability that you don't think have been abused. Standard transmission cars with sport packages don't fall into that category, so it's not a good choice for me.
  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    Because the vast majority of people on this (& related) boards lease.

    is that true? I did not know that (seriously)

    Can't you get a BMW warranty on a used BMW?
  • Yes and no. You can get a BMW cpo but for a very high price. In the end I wouldn't trust an off-lease car mixed with it being German. Nobody else makes cars that are as engaging, imho, so the choices become few and far between.

    With my car i'll turn it in, then BMW will cpo it and resell the bucket of bolts to some poor guy. He'll drop 28-29k for a car that will fulfill his friends' negative comments on German cars.
  • Hi All,

    I'm thinking about either the IS250 AWD or a BMW 330xi. This is my first new car purchase in a long time. Went to the Lexus dealership for a test drive. I live in Chicago and there was a dusting of snow on the ground - nothing remotely serious.

    First strange thing: the guy coming in from his test drive remarks that the "driver assist" feature came on during his test drive. I didn't pay much attention. However, I was taking a pretty easy turn which would not have been a problem for my old Camry and the IS slipped on the turn causing the driver assist feature to kick in.

    This disturbed me. I don't think (though I have little experience) the 330xi would have done that. Could this just be a tire issue or is this driver assist system screwed up?

    Has anyone else experienced this with the IS, or has anyone driven the IS in snow? I like the features for price of the IS though it feels a little cramped, but I really liked the way the BMW drove. Felt very firm and controlled. However, it wasn't snowing when I test drove the BMW.

    I have never owned either a lexus or a bmw. Thanks for any help or experience!

    Wiggling
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hi wiggling - welcome! Sounds like the discussion at this link is just what you need: 2006 BMW 3-Series vs. 2006 Lexus IS. Enjoy! :)
  • gordonwdgordonwd Posts: 337
    I have a 325i, not xi, in the Detroit area and so far have gotten along OK with the standard all-season tires through one winter (although this year is looking like it could be a lot worse!). Anyway, my impression is that the more recent "stability" controllers are getting more sensitive and tend to kick in with very little slippage. In some cases I guess this is good, but I find that I often prefer turning off the DSC and letting the car spin its wheels and fishtail a little bit.

    With the DSC on, I had a couple instances of pulling out from a slippery side street onto a main road, when the DSC kicked in and caused the car to feel like the engine just bogged down big-time, and there I was trying to get into a moving flow of traffic with no power! I'd prefer a little wheelspin and I'm fully capable of keeping it moving in the right direction. ;)

    So don't let the stability control's kicking in unfairly color your opinion of either car (even though the BMW is the obvious choice :) ).
  • Sorry if this goes out of topic. But if your car
    has more than normal reliability issues and has been in repair shop many many times, would BMW still CPO it? In any case shouldn't its resell value reflect this fact?
  • I'd be willing to bet they'll cpo it. Who knows for certain.

    BTW, I'm not sure my reliability problems are viewed as problems by BMW. They don't feel the engine stutter is a problem as they simply refuse to fix it.

    The coils, sensors and blown light bulbs were all considered no big deal as they're known issues with e46s.

    The broken e-brake from the factory was probably viewed as a factory default.

    The electrical problems...well my dealer seems to think that it's not immediately repoducible and therefore not a problem either.
  • shankyshanky Posts: 36
    I tested my new 2006 Mercedes C-350 Luxury (w/o 4Matic) for mileage at a rock-steady 65 mph on level freeway (cruise controlled) and clocked an amazing 34.1 mpg within 22 miles! It may have exceeded this, but my commute destination had already arrived...But with my normally unhealthy driving habits (rush-centric), I am averaging about 24.5 mpg. The car is officially rated 20/29 on city/freeway. I have yet to complete 1 month of ownership.

    Does anyone have the real-world mpg numbers for comparable 3-series, G35 or IS350 ?
  • On my 330i 6 speed I get over 30 mpg on long freeway drives averaging 95-100 mph. I've never tried going 65 on the freeway so I can't say what sort of mileage my 330i would get at that speed.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "On my 330i 6 speed I get over 30 mpg on long freeway drives averaging 95-100 mph. I've never tried going 65 on the freeway so I can't say what sort of mileage my 330i would get at that speed."

    blueguy - you crack me up.
  • calidavecalidave Posts: 156
    /direct/view/.efdc5b2/31

    I would be very interested in your folks' thoughts at this other thread: Best car (used or new) for $40,000

    the basic parameters are: sporty, nice freeway drive, seats 4, and gets at least 28 mpg. Since we're spending 40k, I probably don't need to specify "luxury" as most offerings at that price are going to have at least a minimum of luxury feel.

    2003 530
    Acura TL
    Cadillac CTS
    Saab 9-3
    BMW 3-series
    Honda Accord Hybrid
    Volvo V50
    Buick Lucerne
    Honday Odyssey
    Lexus RX400H
    1997 Porsche 911 Carrera (the kids will fit, really!)
    2002 BMW M3
    2004 Audi S4
    2006 Subaru STi (and treat yourself to a '97 Miata with the change!)
    2006 Volvo V70R (don't forget the 3rd row jumpseat option!)
    2006 Pontiac GTO (see the STi note above)
    2006 Sport sedan? BMW 330i
    2006 Luxo sedan? Mercedes-Benz C280
    01 or 02 Lexus LS430
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