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but, of course, the Avalon isn't small and its not a sports sedan. to answer the original question, I'd go check out the 330i.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I've been searching for turning circle data for a number of cars, and your post filled in a couple of blanks. Besides which, the link absolutely rules in terms of comparative data. I was able to fill in a couple dozen more blanks in my Excel sheet with what I learned there, with more to come.
Thanks again.
FWD geometry accounts for most of the difference.. couple that with aggressively wide tires, and it isn't surprising..
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Best Regards,
Shipo
I'd tell you more... but, it would be off-topic..
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
But why pay that price for great handling when you don't have to? The IS250, G35, 330i, A3, and A4 (to name a few) all handle at least as great as any Honda or Acura (many would say they handle better than any Honda or Acura)....and are much easier to park.
Given the size difference, I see these cars being in the fringe of one another's class from a comparison perspective. I just bought a maxxed out Maxima SL that compares more directly with the TL and they are almost same in size, performance, and turning radius!
Say what? The diameter of the wheel has nothing what-so-ever to do with turning radius. FWIW, the TL comes standard with 235/45 R17 mounted on 17" rims.
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Shipo
Given the size difference, I see these cars being in the fringe of one another's class from a comparison perspective. I just bought a maxxed out Maxima SL that compares more directly with the TL and they are almost same in size, performance, and turning radius!"
I was focusing on turning radius as an objective measure of maneuverability. I certainly wouldn't buy a car strictly based on turning radius, but it goes into the equation for me.
And there isn't a size difference between the TL and the G35....both have 98 cubic feet of passenger volume (the 330i does only have 93). BTW - trunk volume of the TL is only 12.5 cubic feet compared with 14.8 for the G35 (330i is 12.0) so I could argue that the G35 is overall (passenger plus trunk) a larger car than the TL with a much smaller turning radius.
The TL is at a disadvantage in terms of maneuverability because of its front wheel drive design....not trying to reopen the front-vs-rear debate.
I think that the TL is a great overall car. I find myself in parking lots/garages fairly frequently so turning radius mades a difference to me. There are obviously good and bad points for all cars....turning radius is a bad point for the TL.
It would be the 335ci then. I don't buy that for an instant. The i has been in need of a powerful sedan version since the e46 changeover. BMW screwed sedan drivers with the e46 M3. An e90 M3 sedan would be great but far too many people make an ignorant connection between 2 doors and sports cars v. 4 door cars. I'd much rather the stiffer chassis of a sedan and the framed window glass over the flexible design of the coupe and it's lousy window design.
No, but your opinion of people that drive an AT does.
Nothing pompous about saying AT drivers are lazy. Seems to be a fact...most will cite "I drive in traffic." Wah-wah-wah.
Point of view. If an E46 feels large, then it's quite possible for some of us to find the the TL and E to be positively massive.
BMW is being presumptious not only in their connections between sport and two doors but also with non-sport and touring wagons.
If there was a BMW 330xi Touring or even better a 330i Touring (prefer rwd), I would have one in my garage right now. Unfortunately BMW only sells 325xi Touring and 530xi Touring wagons. Not my idea of excitement at all.
Or how about the 1 series hatchback wagon? Nope not here folks, we are going to have to settle for a 1 series coupe.
Shame, shame BMW! At least Audi caters to seekers who want more sport in their wagons by selling A4 3.2 and S4 Avants and ofcourse the A3 Quattro.
Rumor has it that BMW is dropping the "c" designation. I guess somebody in Munich figured out that there are other ways to determine whether it's a coupe or a sedan.
Counting the doors, perhaps?
Keep in mind, it's information I got second-hand, so it's not worth much.
Hatches are cool, I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have one hatchback to carry stuff in. I hate having to put a bunch of stuff in a conventional trunk, it's so cumbersome after using wagon for hauling things. Cheers.
It is a shame Lexus killed off the IS Crossover.
Unless you are directionally challenged and need to make repeated U-turns on narrow roads, I cannot imagine the average driver turning their steering wheel "lock to lock" frequently enough to have the turning radius be an issue. I have a TL (big) and a 911 (small) and I can honestly say that neither one of them can do a complete one shot U-turn on my street, and yet neither one of them has ever presented me with the slightest problem in DC's tightest underground parking garages.
Others abandon them somewhere in the parking lot.
If the ability to do the former is at all important, turning radius enters the picture.
"Back in the day," when I was paid by the mile to drive, we usually referred to the trucks that weren't lined up properly as company drivers. FWIW, those who own their own tractors don't look too highly upon people who get paid by the hour (& appear to lack certain skills).
The ability to precisely position a vehicle is important to some of us.
Not so much to others.
"Give me 40 acres & I'll turn this rig around" has a point to make, but I very much appreciate not having to deal with it in my daily driver.
Those FWD fans who don't notice the difference would make great truck drivers.
Others abandon them somewhere in the parking lot.
If the ability to do the former is at all important, turning radius enters the picture."
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Well, damn, enter me into the parking Olympics! :surprise:
I have never, ever, had the remotest difficulty positioning my TL (or former FWD Maxima) between the lines of a parking space.
Either your pulling my leg on this, in which case I compliment your subtle humor. Or, you're actually serious, in which case I think you've really tipped the scale from the sublime to the completely absurd.
As in, "If the ability to do the former more easily is at all important. . ."
You are correct. It is possible to perfectly park any vehicle, given sufficient skill and/or time.
The pleasant thing, at least in my world, is to be able to turn on a dime, therefore do a number of things more quickly/easily.
Perhaps I'm looking for a reason why so many people park the way they do. It's a fool's mission, to be sure, given the number of people who don't use directional signals.
It all comes down to being considerate. . .or not.
It all comes down to being considerate. . .or not."
Now there is something we can agree on - what possesses some people to park as though they are mentally and physically challenged, I'll never know.
Just this weekend, I was out with the girls in our 911. I'm not the type that will park in the next zip code, but I will pull tight against the curb on a space that is on the right side of a set. Gives the car next to my left plenty of room and (usually) takes me out of range of thier passenger door. Did that in the corner of a restaurant parking lot on Saturday. Came out to find the only other car in the section, a FX35, immediately on my left a full two feet into my parking space, making it impossible for me to open my door wide enough to access the back seat. Intentional, who knows? But as I was loading both of my kids into the back from the passenger side, guy pulls up in a utility van and says "looks like you need help". He then pulls in tight next to the drivers side of the Infiniti with about 3" to spare and has his buddy back into the space I'm vacating. There was no way anyone was getting inside that Infiniti except through the rear hatch. Not something I would encourage in front of my kids, but I definitely got a kick out of it.
Argh...still mad thinking about it.
For whatever reason, cars that are conspicuously parked far away become a target for animosity.... I think some people viewed it as "snobby" and assume the owner thinks "my car is so good that it doesn't deserve to be near the commoners' cars." Whether that is the owner's intent or not, some other driver just have to lash out and be jerks.
Obviously the car being parked far away isn't hurting anyone. In fact, it actually leaves more closer spaces open! It's really a cowardly act since there is often a low likelyhood that they'll get caught... Oh well... :confuse:
With that said, there are still some idiots out there that aren't considerate and want to park next to a nice vehicle just to annoy you - although I believe they are far and few between simply because they are too lazy to walk
How much redisgned will be be over the existing G35?? I hope its better!!!!!!!!!! even though i like this car too.
I want to buy a G35 sedan but the main question is should i wait to when the 2007 comes out or go with the present G35. Any ideas people??
rumor says that it will be somewhat closer to the new M series
which is awesome...
If this was going be the 07 model, it would be the coolest G35 Sedan to date, IMO. Sorry wasn't able to snap a picture
Unfortunately the only way I can own a 330i Touring is to immigrate to Europe. And here in N. America the X3 or X5 are not my kind of vehicles since I live and work in downtown and always drive on paved city roads/highways.
isn't it possible to import upon one-off order or through a "European Delivery" programme?
For me, the wagon is a simple variation of the Sedan (size and weight very close) how wouldn't it be possible to import the wagon?? This is a real deal breaker, as the Wagon is sooo practical in comparison to the Sedan ( I moved coutless of stuff and have kids) without compromising the handling and performance/mpg too much.
X3 is 250Kg too heavy and has low MPG. Don't even mention X5. 7/S/A8 have MUCH better MPG with same powertrains. No need to further comment
I haven't seen much discussion about the 06, so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me. Have the paint problems been resolved? have they upgraded the rotors? I am completely confused about the tires. I know we will need to buy snows--we live in Boston, and I've been traumatized since driving school a million years ago about hydroplanning in the rain, so what's the best tire strategy. Since I can't read a map, I like the idea of a nav system, but I don't like it that my husband can't reprogram it while I'm driving. Does this mean i should get a Magellean at Costco and defile the dash with it? Biggest question, and one that's been asked in another forum I think, should we wait until the 07 come out (and when is that?). We're planning on leasing. I'm thinking we should go ahead with the 06, allow time for the problems in the 07 to surface, and trade in for the 08, or something like that. Is there conventional wisdom about this?
Please advise. Thanks.
Why don't you look at and then test drive the G35x. You have AWD, (when you need it) four doors and pretty great performance and handling. I own a 05 X and love it. The only option I wish I didn't buy was the NAV, otherwise I am very pleased with this car.
Nobody in this forum seems to share our views on wagons. And that is not so bad for you as it is for me since I am on the wrong side of the ocean.
I love the European selection of turbodiesels and wagons. In this continent there is very little buyer interest for such vehicles.
When you say the word wagon or hatchback, many here think of their father's Ford LTD station wagon or their mother's Chevy Vega .
And the word diesel arouses thoughts of those horrendous GM diesels that were sold in the 80s.
At least MB and Audi provides a wider selection of wagons than the pitiful selection from BMW.
I am waiting to test drive and maybe buy the new Infiniti G37? Am I concerned about first year model issues. Absolutely not. Every car I bought was a first year model from a German luxury marque and there have been no issues whatsoever. I am confident there will be non-issues with the upcoming Infiniti.
And what if there is an issue? If it's under warranty it will be fixed and become a non-issue, at least that is the case if you dont buy a VW or a Range Rover.
Well for me, I am based in China now and neither Audi nor BMW nor MB import wagons here. People buy such brands for social status, so 'utilitarian' models are excluded.
Moreover, there are heavy import taxes. a C230K Sedan will cost you US$85K. Can't even imagine paying such a price for any car.
So I still think there is always worse than bad
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Best Regards,
Shipo