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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "BMW is that it's a pain in the butt to get a stick. I know you can get one if you order it, but like I said, pain in the butt. No, I'm not wrong, ever see a 330 manual on a BMW lot?"

    All the time. When i went to go look at an e90, that's all they had as a tester.

    There seem to be several bmw dealers in houston. None of them have manuals? That's very odd since a CPO seach for houston shows 24 CPO'd cars on lots now. Those cars had to come from somewhere.
  • v_ladv_lad Posts: 27
    well, we do have a couple in local dealership - 325 manual with sport, and 330 maual without (who would order a manual without sport package????). I also looked through the inventory 2 other dealerships and they both seems to have 3 manuals, even one 330xi manual.
    Anyway I'm perfectly fine with poseurs, as long as they spread the image of a non-average Joe. ;) Average Joe's don't buy small 40k cars.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Even though I don't think not having a manual is a big problem for the IS350. I do think that if Lexus want to establish a reputation as a contender in this segment they do need to make the manual option available. Even if it's only availabe through special order is fine.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Average Joe's don't buy small 40k cars.

    So who are all the people that's buying the small 40k cars? Celebrities? You'll be suprised to see how many small 40k cars exist in the college campus and regular office parking lots. As matter of fact, now a day, regular Joe also drives Porsche. Can we say Boxster and Cayman?
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    It's a used one to test drive? Oh got ya, Hey thanks for all the help that my BMW salesperson can't seem to give me. Exscuse me while I run out and test drive a used car. My point again proven. No such thing as a manual on the lot [see new]
    Have to order....pain in the butt.....Audi anyone?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Uh, I think it's been confirmed that the 335i sedan will replace the current 330i sedan for the 07's MY.

    Has it been officially confirmed or is this mere rumor? (pardon my lack of knowledge since I dont frequent e90 forums as much as I used to)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Don't think it's been "officially" confirmed but here is the link. Judge it yourself.

    link title
  • v_ladv_lad Posts: 27
    here is a better link:
    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158308

    It's not about celebrities. It's about priorities in life. A Camry, Accord, Sonata is enough for transportation as well as a cheap SUV or wagon. Boxter is a small "sports" car. You'd hardly buy one if you are trying to live "rational". I know lot's of people with 150k+ income and they tend to drive either cars for 25k or below and don't care what they drive as long as it is sufficient for them, or they drive "sport" models that are different from average.
    Luxury and sport are a way to get out of "average". You don't really need any of them in your life. But in my observations there are much more people who choose "sport" over "luxury" to stand out.
    As for me - my 20k subaru is 100% enough for my life, but still I'll trade it for a 328 BMW next spring for a wider grin on my face. I've tested IS 350, but it left a soft teddy-bear feeling. IS is not a BMW contender - it's a Lincoln, Mercedes contender. BMW should fear G35 and Audi much more than Lexus.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I guess you missed my point. I was saying that not everyone buying cars in this segment are enthusiasts. There are a lot (in fact I believe the majority) of buyers out there are just looking for an entry level luxury cars with a little geddiup.

    I agree with you that IS350 is best to compare with Mercedes (definitely not Lincon, please name one Lincoln that's comparable with the IS). However, it's enevitable to compare the IS, 3, G, TL and C because they all belong in the same segment.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    $2100 jumps from the current 330i. I am pretty sure the sales will continue to be strong but this horsepower war has make the prices of cars in this segment ridiculous.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "My point again proven. No such thing as a manual on the lot"

    You have an intersting idea of what proves a point.

    1) I pointed out that the manual 330 was the only e90 tester my dealer had.

    2) Those cpo'd manual tranny cars had to come from somewhere. I presume the old cars were once new cars.

    But, ok fine. I googled "bmw houston" clicked the first dealer (advantage BMW) searched the new 3-series inventory, and the first car listed ( a 2006 325i ) has a manual transmission.

    Stock #: 844292
    Vin: WBAVB13516KX50322

    http://www.advantagebmwhouston.com/CFG/StandardSpecs.cfm?id_108=2006&id_107=6150- - 15&activetabcolor=cccccc&inactivetabcolor=999999&textcolor=000000&busevoiceovers- - =0

    The second car on the list also has a manual transmission:

    Stock #: 834020
    Vin: WBABD334X6PL09064

    http://www.advantagebmwhouston.com/CFG/StandardSpecs.cfm?id_108=2006&id_107=1536- - 98&activetabcolor=cccccc&inactivetabcolor=999999&textcolor=000000&busevoiceovers- - =0

    Two out of two and i got bored looking.

    I conclude that BMW dealers in houston do have manual transmission cars available.

    dave
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The probelm is ... you need to move out of Houston. ;)

    When I was sedan shopping a while back, I had absolutely no difficulty here in the Washington DC area test driving manual transmissioned 330i's at several dealerships. I went on no fewer that 5-6 test drives over 1-2 months, all with different cars. I even test drove a manual 330i at my small hometown dealer who had several on the lot and they only sell a total 150-200 BMW's a year.

    I will say that my casual calls to get a test drive in a 550i 6-speed before I opted to get a 911 last fall was a failure. But they barely had any 550i's in stock at that time, period.

    Not sure why those Houston dealers don't stock manuals, but that can't be typical of the rest of the country.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    o, I'm not wrong, ever see a 330 manual on a BMW lot?

    Yes. in 2003 I bought my 330i ZHP off a lot...with a manual. Helped another friend buy a 3 series off a lot a few months later with a manual.

    My dealer called me when the e90 test cars showed up. They had manuals. :)

    My current 06 e90 = manual.
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    You'll be suprised to see how many small 40k cars exist in the college campus and regular office parking lots. As matter of fact, now a day, regular Joe also drives Porsche.

    Dude, your idea of AVERAGE JOE is all kinds of screwed up. Check out median household salary and median home price and then ask yourself if people in both of those are buying $40k cars.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I am sorry...my idea of average Joe is NOT screwed up. It's just different than yours. Next time, be more open minded.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,540
    will of course vary greatly depending on where you live, too.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Yes. in 2003 I bought my 330i ZHP off a lot...

    I thought you were strictly a European Delivery guy. What happened to that 15% savings incentive in 2003?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    No, I bought my ZHP off the lot in 2003 - I planned on ED but given the deal I secured it wasn't worthwhile. $400 over invoice. My 06 was ED though.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    No, I bought my ZHP off the lot in 2003 - I planned on ED but given the deal I secured it wasn't worthwhile. $400 over invoice.

    O.K., now go back a few pages and re-read our exchange. You were adamant that ED would net you a 15% savings, compared to US MSRP. I said that the savings was 7% or less, assuming you could negotiate the same discount to MSRP on a US delivery order or car on the lot as you could on ED. You said "irrelevant". Well, that irrelevancy is exactly why you stayed put in the US in 2003. You got a great deal and the best that ED would have saved you might have been an additional 5-6%.

    Not to worry, we share a lot more in common on our opinions than we don't and I've probably been guilty of arguing a point beyond relevancy myself. ;)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    You got a great deal and the best that ED would have saved you might have been an additional 5-6%.

    There were other circumstances - emotional decisions essentially. I set foot on the lot May 22nd intent on ordering my 330i to spec. They were busy that day. I went home and thought about the ZHP I saw on the lot. The next morning I returned and asked if they had another ZHP. They did: silver gray in the back. It was untouched, the plastic still encasing the car, cardboard within the interior. We tore out the plastic and I drove the car.

    They told me $400 over invoice. I did the math on 10 MSDs over the base MF buy rate. Emotions took over. I didn't want to wait for the car - I had been driving a Jetta 1.8T that I desperately wanted out of. The ED deal was attractive and would have meant several thousand dollars in savings over the lease period. But I'd have to hold onto my current Jetta - which was killing me with its awfulness.

    I opted to pay more for the car I had driven and took the 330i ZHP that day. It was purely emotional and not the least bit rational.

    When my lease was coming up on the 2003 I spent several months test driving the competition again. Still nobody built a car as nice as my e46 ZHP - including the 06 e90 ZSP. My 03 ZHP was not an option - a myriad of electrical and mechanical problems BMW could not fix.

    Defeated, I opted to follow-through on the e90 ED lease, opting for a quick two-year lease. The cost was obscenely low, the car's still more fun than any of its competition (though a shadow of the e46 ZHP's fun) and it gave me a good excuse to go to Europe to see an ex-girlfriend and drive through Europe. The car's boring but the trip was awesome.

    Perhaps by 08 BMW will have a decent, fun car available. If not, maybe the competition will have finely created something fun. Mazda's Mazdaspeed3 and Infiniti's upcoming 07 G35 look like worthy options for 08. We'll see.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Hilarious. Busted!
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    Maybe you should just stop digging.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I admitted I left money on the table buying off-the-lot. I made an irrational decision based on emotion.

    Call me what you will. Say what you will.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Now, that is FAST.

    Boy oh boy, If I am BMW I wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking about all these 3 fighters (or so called poseurs by those BMW faithfuls).
  • poodog13poodog13 Posts: 320
    I am sorry...my idea of average Joe is NOT screwed up. It's just different than yours. Next time, be more open minded.

    Good explanation. Has nothing to do with being open minded. The definition of average is mathmatical, therefore it is not subject to opinion or interpretation. An average is an empirical fact based on data. And I guarantee you that the "average joe" has no realistic intentions of spending $40k on a vehicle. More likely $40k would cover two vehicles.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,540
    The definition of average is mathmatical, therefore it is not subject to opinion or interpretation.

    maybe not opinion, but definitely interpretation.

    I'd bet everything I have that the "average" joe in my state has a VERY different income than the "average" joe in Montana.

    meanwhile, someone else might be referring to the average person across the entire US. Someone else might be referring to the average person in their town.

    Interpretation of empirical data is exactly the reason a manufacturer can make some silly claim like "best in class acceleration." Depending on exactly how you skew that class, you could claim ALOT of crazy things.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Like I said, we just have different definitions about Average Joe. Mine doesn't involve any statistics. Here's my defintion:

    If one died, and the only people care about it are his/her family, relatives and friends then he/she is considered an Average Joe in my book.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    We know Nissan improved the interior - which is nice. And the 0-60 and power are great. But did they address the handling problems and the NVH regarding the engine/6 speed?

    If the chassis is now balanced and doesn't exhibit snap oversteer anymore I'll be very interested. I can live with Nissan NVH (lived with it for years)...
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You didn't owe it, but I appreciate the detailed response.

    I have been a fan of BMW for many years, but I've yet to own one. Your disspointment with the E90 vs. E46 is interesting. Care to elaborate on the differences?

    Several years ago, I was handed the keys to a 2001 M5. I thought I'd end up getting one when I could afford it. But, after seeing what i-drive did to the redesigned 5-series and hearing that the new M5 would only come with an SMG, I opted for keeping my TL and getting a 2005 911S Cabriolet last fall. In the 10 months since, I've put 3,200 miles on the TL and 8,600 miles on the 911. A very good decision.

    I'm wondering if I will ever own a BMW, or just continue to admire them from afar. I considered the M3 when I was 911 shopping, but decided if I was getting a third car rather than replacing the TL, I wanted a sports car, not a coupe.
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