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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    scottm123, if you must have AWD then I think your best choice (or best bang for the buck) right now is the G35x. No doubt the 335ix will be nicer and more powerful but that's if you can get over that price. I personally don't care much about the IS250 and would never choose it over the G35x. TL-S is nice but if I am going to drop around $35K on a car I'd like to have either AWD or RWD.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,414
    How come you want AWD? What region of the country do you live in?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I'm in Massachusetts.
    I have a steep driveway, which goes up from my garage to the street, so there's no option of getting a running head start.
    I live in the backest of back woods, behind a beautiful golf course and I have a 45 mile commute down the dreaded Mass Pike.
    Anyone who drives the pike knows the nightmare it becomes when it snows. I have side road options, but they're also nasty when it snows.

    I've had FWD cars for the first half of my driving life and went to 4WD for the second half.

    I'm now ready to get back into a sports sedan, and would rather an AWD, than the FWD. RWD is just not an option. :cry:

    I'm one of those people who love driving in the snow.
    When the first foot lands, I grab my coat and hit the roads.
    I'd like to find a car with a perfect balance of fun, power, and sensibility.

    If the G is reliable and able to handle the crazy miles I put on each year, it may be my best choice.

    I feel in love with the IS250, but I also have a moment once in a while where I want that thrill of power.
    Being at a red light and getting smoked by a kid in a Chevy Cobalt SS would not be a good thing, so the IS250 AWD is not an option for me... sad to say.

    Wish the IS350 came in AWD.
    Same for the TL Type-S, but that's still a few years away.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    scottm123,

    Too bad Mercedes isn't offering the new E320 Bluetec with a 4-matic option. Although a pretty big jump in price, it would be my choice for a long distance commuter car under the conditions you describe. Great gas mileage and nearly 400 ft-lbs of torque to more than compensate for the added weight of AWD.

    The unfortunate issue facing you is that NO AWD equiped ELLPS is going to perform as well as their RWD counterpart when it comes to taking on that Cobalt SS at the stoplight. All of them are hundreds of pounds heavier and give up at least some drivetrain efficiency, compared to running just the rear wheels. In some cases, the added weight also has a significant detrimental impact on the car's handling feel and nimbleness. Having received Audi A4 Quatro service loaners on a couple of occasions, I felt like I was carrying a car full of water buffalos compared to my TL. Great in the rain or snow, not otherwise. Needing AWD and wanting high performance does pose some compromises.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Needing AWD and wanting high performance does pose some compromises."

    Unless we want to include Bugatti AWD as part of ELLPS.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108537
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "Same for the TL Type-S, but that's still a few years away."

    AWD for the TL will show up sometime in 08 as an 09 model.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Could you explain the $10 difference you referred to? I just built a 350 MSRP for about $43K. The BMW that I wanted had an MSRP of $44K. How is that a $10K difference? If you paid $36K for your 350, you either got a heck of deal or you have a base model no options or a specially configured model. Add one option package on and the price jumps about $7.5K.

    BMW allows one to configure the car exactly as they want. So my dream 335i would be $44K+ MSRP, only two thousand more MSRP $$$ than my E46, with more features and power.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I have a base IS350 and the only opted for the 18" wheel and accessories. However, on the IS, the comfort access comes standard as well as real leather. Not to mention that the peddle shifter is standard as well. The configuration for the 335i I was referring to is: premium package + sports package + comfort access + metallic paint.

    Premium package includes real leather, digital compass, bluetooth, heated seats, homelink garage opener and few other goodies. All those are standard on the IS except heated seats and bluetooth as I stated before.

    Sports package includes 18" wheel, paddle shifter(I want automatic so please don't bring in the ole' manual vs auto dicussion) and sports suspension. Again, as I said, the only thing that my IS350 doesn't have is the sports suspension.

    Also the comfort access is standard on the IS and Lexus doesn't charge extra for "metallic" paint.

    That being said the 335i comes to around $46.2K MSRP and the IS350 to around $36.5K (I got it for $35.5K). As one can see with all the packages added onto the BMW, the only extras it has over the vanilla Lexus are:

    Sports suspension
    Bluetooth
    Heated seats

    Are those worth $10K? Maybe or maybe not. To me? Heck no.

    kdshapiro, let me know if you have more questions.
  • jdelabrejdelabre Member Posts: 57
    Thats the same problem I had about the 335i. I want it loaded, and I figured around $48,000. In the coupe you MUST get the sport package! Those 18" wheels are awesome. And premium pkg. and nav is also a must for me. Great car! TOO expensive for me. I went for the 07 TL-S. I love driving it. All my friends and relatives also love it in every way! I think Lexus are too soft and yuppy. If you get a loaded IS350 then its a drivers car, but then its almost as much as the 335i, which I prefer way more. I got my 07 TL-S Automatic, because its FWD. Loaded for $36,200 :)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    In 2008' based on what information we have now the Cadillac CTS has raised and set the bar for the other car company's to come up too.... :shades:

    Nobody has a nicer interior and fit and finish execution like the 08' CTS. The 2008' CTS is rumored to have at least 310+ hp via a Delphi direct injection system
    VVT "High Feature" 3.6 V6 and if that rumor 310+ hp holds true the CTS will gain significantly more market-share from import cross shoppers and become
    "The Standard of the World" in the ELLPS segment. :blush:

    So if I was y'all I'd start writing rough drafts for your classified newspaper/autotrader article now so you can sell your BMW and trade up to the 08' CTS :P If you decide to do the smart thing I'd call your Cadillac dealership to find out when you can place your order because they will be hotter than the flames of hell when they come out. :shades:

    Rocky
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Not the "Future Car parade" again...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well it's not that far into the future. It's essentially just around the corner and will be available in 2007' as a 2008' model :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    readerreader,

    Is a car research god. Have you seen some of the photo's this guy has found on the net. He has found the best spy photo's I've seen to date. He has found pics on the 2008' CTS interior along with several other future Cadillac photo's I've spent hours trying to find but with no-luck. :)

    Rocky
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    This is an apples to oranges comparison. In real life on the BMW you need the SP to get the 18 wheels. To get the sport package on the 350 you need to add more than $7K. See I wouldn't opt for the 18 wheels or the SP, but would get almost else you mentioned. So in your world, it's a 10K difference, in my world not.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Rocky - What you keep missing is that all the world moves at the same time. BMW will be coming out with it's M3. If the 335 is an example of an underrated car, the M3 will be also. Lexus will be coming out with it's IS500 or whatever it calls it. The 335i mod chips will be arriving, which should provide a significant boost to the 335 hp and torque. The Nissan Skyline will be arriving some time.

    From what I've seen, if you didn't like the CTS before 2008 will not make a difference. If you like the CTS now, you will probably love the 2008 CTS. Class leading, I doubt it. :confuse A step up, I'm sure. :blush
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    Besides maybe voiding your warranty, what other disadvantages are there to installing a chip?
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Maybe it's apples to oranges to you but for me it's apples to apples. I want paddle shifter and 18" wheel so I have no choice but to get the sports package (according to the BMW dealer). Personally I couldn't care less about the sports suspension. Like I said before and if you are here long enough you'll know that I am no where near an enthusiast. I don't care about heated seats and bluetooth either but since I want everything else in the premium package I have no choice but opt for one.

    If you read my last post, I did mention that the $10K difference might be worth it for someone else but definitely not for me. Also, of course I'd use my point of view in my post, how you think in your world is none of my business.

    Oh BTW, BMW charges $1,250 for the automatic tranny. I guess if they keep this up, I'll be driving Japanese for a long time to come...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Shredding your transmission and/or differential? For every car that has a turbo, a number of chip makers have after market ECUs. As blueguy noted, Dinan upgrades are warrantied, authorized and installed by BMW. I'm sure if you search around you will find horror stories, but for the most part, the chip makers find the balance between upping the performance and destroying the car.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Seriously...I would NEVER EVER put a chip or mod the engine on a $40K car.

    This ain't no Honda Civic ya know...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Maybe it's apples to oranges to you but for me it's apples to apples"

    What makes the world go around is different opinions. I couldn't care about paddle shifters. And I would want heated seats which is a $500 option on the BMW. You do not need to get them as part of the CWP.

    All I was doing is pointing out the 10K number is based on your preferences not mine.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There are a lot of people that mod $55K cars and above. If one has the money there is a plethora of aftermarket parts for your consumption.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    All I was doing is pointing out the 10K number is based on your preferences not mine.

    What makes you think the $10K number is based on your preference since it was MY post?

    ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "What makes you think the $10K number is based on your preference since it was MY post?"

    Because I don't agree with the way you've optioned the cars out. And as a result, my 350 would cost more than yours and my 335i would cost less than yours. Of course, I could get the base model with the leatherette and manual. That's a bargain in and of itself. And is configured the way *some* people here like it.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    kdshapiro, let me know if you have more questions.

    This certainly falls into the "as if" category. KD isn't particularly bashful. What were you trying to achieve with that comment?

    [non-permissible content removed](anese) vehicles tend to include a lot of stuff in the base vehicle & offer one or two option packages. If you want what's in the base vehicle (or exactly what's in the packages), you're golden.

    If not. . .well, you may end up buying German. Toyota has made a science of studying customer satisfaction & the most efficient way to achieve it. If you fall into the middle of the bell curve, you're their kinda person.

    If not. . .

    I don't think we're trying to be obstinate, but some of us want a manual transmission (paying extra for the automatic is a big plus in my book) & not a whole lot else.

    In my case, handling & possibly audio upgrades -- a German sports package & the upgraded audio & I'm done. Oh, wait, I will pay for leather & a fold-down rear seat (to fit my bicycle). The I Lexi don't even offer a fold-down seat -- that was what eliminated them completely from my consideration, even before I learnt how they handled. Oh, and then the Asian upgraded audio typically comes in a package with tons of s(tuff) I don't want & costs an arm & a leg.

    So, you got what you want. Great. Some of us can get a BMW for not much more, or possibly less.

    Different strokes. . .

    Bear in mind that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Asian car fan. I've driven a lot of miles in my 240-Z (223K), my Miatas (67K), my used 510 (106K) & our current '04 Pathfinder (38K). My second-choice car today is the G coupe, though I'm not sure I can get my bike through that little triangular hole.

    I want what I want. Asians don't offer it this year. The Germans do.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    You know, you COULD just get the normal one without the sport package and... add aftermarket 18"ers for a lot less money.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Okay, this discussion is going nowhere...

    Actually, when I went to the BMW dealership all I want is a test drive. Since I don't want the sales to know that I was only there for a joy ride I actually sat down with him and tell him want I want on the car.

    I gave him several "must have" criteria:

    18" wheels
    comfort access
    real leather
    paddle shifter
    no navi

    By taking my request he went on his BMW web to search a car for me and came up with the following configuration:

    Sports package + Premium package + Auto tranny + Comfort access + Metallic paint.

    Overall comes up to around $46K including destination. I asked him do I need the premium package in order to get leather and he said no. But since that package is so popular they do not order leather without it. He said it could hurt the resale value if one doesn't have premium package. Make sense. He did tell me that I could custom build one if I really don't want the premium package but he doesn't see the point. Personally I agree with him, although I don't care much about bluetooth and heated seats but I like the digital compass and homelink garage opener.

    I would also foregone the sports package if I can get the 18" wheel and paddle shifter separately but I couldn't. Good for you that you can live with manual with leatherette but I like automatic with REAL leather. I never said the BMW does not worth $46K, all I was trying to say is, FOR ME AND MY PREFERENCE the 335i is definitely not the best buy. Also, the IDEAL 335i FOR ME costs $10K more than MY IDEAL IS350 (which happens to be the one I am driving now). However, if one is willing to give one for me for Christmas I'd be more than glad to take it :P .
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Paddle shifter only comes with sports package and I don't like aftermarket rims on my car...
  • joe131joe131 Member Posts: 998
    How about a Mazdaspeed 6 for around $23,000 with leather, navi, and a 6-speed stick? under 14 seconds in the 1/4 mile, 149 top speed, 0-60 in 5.3 seconds and it out slaloms the BMW 330i. Beats a 350Z in the quarter.
    Oh yeah, and its all wheel drive.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    What were you trying to achieve with that comment?

    Trying to find out if kdshapiro has more questions. If he does I'd be more than glad to answer them.

    a fold-down rear seat (to fit my bicycle)

    You can eliminate the new G35 sedan as well, just found out that they don't offer fold-down seat too.

    I don't know if it's my previous posts not clear enough or what, I've never ever bashed the 335i. As matter of fact I said it in my test drive observation that if money isn't a factor I will choose it over IS350. Sadly, money is a factor for me and in today's ELLPS market, it is definitely not the best buy (again, for me).

    BTW, is there anybody out there don't like comfort access and think it shouldn't be standard equipment on the 3-series?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    The G35 sedan has never been on my list, given its rear reclining seats, for the 0.05% of the mileage I put on my car with someone in the back seat. For those who have just joined, the reclining feature eliminates the possibility of a fold-down option (or better yet, standard feature).

    This is why the only G car I've been considering is the coupe, and it's marginal. I really want to be able to carry large things, primary of which is my bicycle. This is also why I'm considering both the 328 sedan and the 328 sports wagon.

    But that's just me.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,504
    Rear-wheel drive is important to me, for reasons that you may or may not care or know about.

    The WRX is supposed to blow everything else in the world out, so long as you don't mind the noise & other "issues." Sounds like the Mazdaspeed 6 may be in the same category. My #3 son & his wife have a standard Mazda 6 & really enjoy it.

    Bring me an Asian RWD car with a manual transmission and room to put my bicycle in the back. There -- I think I've refined my problem statement.

    Tell me the answer.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I wasn't being pejorative. It seems your preference for one option, the paddle shifters, which is important to you, not to me bumped the price up $10K. That's ridiculous on BMWs part I agree, but to me it's not a reason to get the 350 over the 335. Now because you like the 350 better and it comes with everything you want in the base model, it *is* a reason to get the 350 over the 335. But I believe most people wind up with one or more buyers wind up with pricey options on their 350. Just like I believe one or more 335 buyers will be very happy with the base model. And vice-versa.

    Most people would not base their final buying decision on paddle shifters, IMO.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Not just the paddle shifter, the 18" wheel is a must as well. I wonder how much does it cost to get the 18" wheel alone since the sports package is only $1,600.

    I agree with you. Yes, my reason to choose IS350 over 335i is because it comes with everything I want in the base model and I like its interior much more. Not because it has paddle shifter and 335i doesn't. I also think that to base the final decision on paddle shifters is ridiculous as well, however, once I got it, it's hard to go back.

    Also, let's keep in mind that the difference is around $10K. Even if I foregone the paddle shifter and 18" wheel the difference is still well over $8K. $1,600 for the sports package, I actually think that's a bargain. I wish I can get the sports package on a IS350 for that kind of price.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    As always, we will have to wait and see. The CTS-V will be coming out after both of those. So it's all about preferences.
  • jensbjensb Member Posts: 3
    I like manual transmissions and I've realized I'm not going to be happy if I get an automatic. Apparently, I have the impossible dream for a car: manual transmission entry luxury sedan (e.g. four doors), xm radio, seat that flips down, real wheel drive. Doesn't seem like it should be that hard, but it is!

    I found out that I can convert BMW from Sirius to XM with an adaptor and I can order a seat that flips down so I thought I was getting close. But none of the dealerships around me have manuals to test drive. I did test one 3 series manual coupe in another state and found that my elbow hit the arm rest every time I shifted. It drove me crazy. Now my dealership is telling me that the arm rest is different if I order a sports package without the premium--e.g. that the sports package alone will solve the problem. Anyone know if there is any truth to that or if I'm being fed a line? It's really hard to buy a car if you can't test drive it.

    I keep getting such conflicting information. I was also recently told by my local Lexus dealership that I could order a 2007 Lexus IS manual with XM--but that's not what XM says (or what the Lexus webpages show).

    Any thoughts appreciated. (And, as far as recommendations, I've ruled out Acura and Saab--just not happy with the way they handle. Thanks, though.)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Paddle shifter only comes with sports package and I don't like aftermarket rims on my car...

    Time to learn stickhift if you are so hung up on shifting manually with those paddle shifters. The difference in the 3 series is exactly the same as in the CTS - Automatic is a nice ride, but stickshift is like you lit a firecracker in its pants. Paddle shifters are at best a half-baked compromise.

    Very much a jekyl/hyde type of experience for both.(and me - Oh I want Mr. Hyde. ;) ) Never ever buying an automatic again.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Sorry, plekto, not a huge fan of manual tranny. I know how to drive one and it's fun to drive it once a while. However, as for my daily driver? No thanks, I'll stick with auto. Also, I am not and never would planning on track my car so for me I don't have the need to get one.

    I think I could foregone the paddle shifter and sports suspension if I can get the 18" wheel as a stand alone option. However, I am interesting to find out how much would that be since the whole sports package only cost $1,600.

    At best the difference between my ideal IS350 and my ideal 335i is still around $9K.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The guy loves talking about what might be. After the CTS arrives and fails to live up to his insane hype, we'll hear about the 2011 model forever!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Seriously...I would NEVER EVER put a chip or mod the engine on a $40K car.

    This ain't no Honda Civic ya know...

    Uh, there's a chip already in EVERY car. Tuners are simply reflashing the ECU or using a Xede attached to the ECU. No difference.

    Dinan will offer chips as they do for all BMW products and the chips could easily boost power to 350 hp/400 tq.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    You know, you COULD just get the normal one without the sport package and... add aftermarket 18"ers for a lot less money.

    From Lexus site...


    Perforated leather-trimmed interior
    Power tilt-and-telescopic steering column
    Lexus Memory System to control power driver's and front passenger's seats (except lumbar), outside mirrors and steering wheel Standard on the bimmer
    Heated and ventilated front seats
    Aluminum sport pedals
    Aluminum doorsill scuff plates Standard on the bimmer ZSP
    Rain-sensing intermittent windshield wipers with mist cycle Standard on the bimmer
    Electrochromic (auto-dimming) outside mirrors with auto tilt-down in reverse standard on the bimmer
    Bi-xenon High-Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps Standard on the bimmer and a must have
    Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS) Standard on the bimmer and a must have
    Sport-tuned suspension
    18 x 8.0-in alloy wheels with 225/40YR18 tires front [4], 18 x 8.5-in alloy wheels with 255/40YR18 tires rear [4]Standard on the bimmer ZSP

    So the Sport Package is more than just 18 inch wheels. Extra features, xenon lights (sad that this is extra) and a different suspension.

    Oh and that's $3700. Yeah, so suddenly the IS350 is around 40k.

    Hmm, 335i with leather, ZSP, comfort access, tilt mirror, bi-xenon swivels, seat memory, intermittent wipers is 38k via European Delivery. Easy call for me. The Lexus is more expensive, less fun to drive, doesn't handle as well, has a really bad automatic and costs a boatload more to keep up.

    BTW, good luck getting an IS350 with a sport package. :P
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    gave him several "must have" criteria:

    18" wheels
    comfort access
    real leather
    paddle shifter
    no navi

    By taking my request he went on his BMW web to search a car for me and came up with the following configuration:

    Sports package + Premium package + Auto tranny + Comfort access + Metallic paint.

    Whoa, why do you need the premium package then? That's an extra 1k. you can get leather without it. I just did you car, a 335i sedan, with leather, metallic, auto, sport, comfort and it's $44,795.

    That's 5k more than the similar IS350 with sports package - which is impossible to order through Lexus.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I did test one 3 series manual coupe in another state and found that my elbow hit the arm rest every time I shifted.

    You must shift like my sister - she grabs the shifter with her thumb on top of the shifter and fingers along it's shaft as if she were holding a joystick. honestly, there should never be a reason for your elbow to hit the recessed, nearly flush armrest unless you're purposely pointing your elbow down during shifting.

    Took me forever to find a manual 330 in 2003 as most dealers only had 325is in manual. Finally got my hands on a ZHP and it was over. 2006 was easier as manuals were available for testing everywhere. Check bimmerfest and you might find someone near you who will let you test drive his car.

    There's no difference between armrests.

    I keep getting such conflicting information. I was also recently told by my local Lexus dealership that I could order a 2007 Lexus IS manual with XM--but that's not what XM says (or what the Lexus webpages show).

    Ask for exact details on an IS order. They don't let you actually order your car. Lexus builds cars and one MIGHT be made that fits your desires. At BMW you order your car and get access to build info online to watch its progress. My Mulroney stick actually has my name on it.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Blue,

    Dinan has no availability for the E90 yet for a reflashed chip.

    From what I could find, the power gain per $ is really not worth it for any of the Dinan performance add-ons.

    Regards,
    OW
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Dinan has no availability for the E90 yet for a reflashed chip.

    From what I could find, the power gain per $ is really not worth it for any of the Dinan performance add-ons.

    First, Dinan hasn't chipped a turbo BMW yet.

    Second, Dinan always offers chips for BMW cars.

    Third, even if Dinan only bumps HP/TQ 15/15 that's a nice jump. Other tuners are easily seeing 60/70 gains from first gen tuning.

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36987
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    blue, I know that you are a big fan of ED but that's just not an option for me.

    I guess to get the leather alone could be an option but the sales guy does have a point on not getting the premium package would hurt the resale value. Also, I would also like to have some goodies that the premium package has to offer such as homelink and digital compass. With the premium package the price comes to around $46K.

    Personally I really don't care much about IS' sports package. Like I said I am no where near as an enthusiast and the stock suspension works for me. I guess the bottom line is that I am really happy with the base IS350 + 18" wheel but would need many packages and options add on to the Bimmer in order to be satisfied.

    Oh well, that's just me though...

    PS. I agree that Xenon not being standard on the IS is crap. I think any car over $30K should have Xenon as standard feature. Even though it's not a deal breaker for me but I would very much like to have one. Good thing that Lexus now offers Xenon as stand alone option on the 07' not bundle to any packages. But that means we 06' owners were remain being screwed. :cry:
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I like manual transmissions and I've realized I'm not going to be happy if I get an automatic. Apparently, I have the impossible dream for a car: manual transmission entry luxury sedan (e.g. four doors), xm radio, seat that flips down, real wheel drive.

    Any thoughts appreciated.

    If you're willing to go AWD you could get an A4. It's a gorgeous car and handles almost as well as a bimmer. More luxurious as well.
  • saabhistorysaabhistory Member Posts: 7
    The Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan and the 9-5 appear to be the safest in their respected classes.

    These crash tests show how far Saab has come and also how much they are set apart from other manufacturers in unparalled safety.

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-crash-test-saab-9-3-sport-sedan-2004/-

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-9-3-sport-sedan-crash-test-2003/

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/iihs-9-5-crash-test-footage-2002/

    There is even footage of the Saab moose test that Saab continues to do even today.

    http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/22/saab-900-moose-test-footage-1997/

    Let me know what your thoughts are.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'd like to be frank...

    I think Saab doesn't belong in this board, PERIOD.

    Again, that's just me though.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Not sure why ED is not an option. Guess you can't take one day off work. You're that important. The president can take weeks off but you can't take a monday off work?

    guess to get the leather alone could be an option but the sales guy does have a point on not getting the premium package would hurt the resale value.

    It won't hurt anything. It's a BMW, not a Lexus. You will always find a buyer for a BMW - leatherette, manual, no sunroof. There's always someone who wants it.

    Also, I would also like to have some goodies that the premium package has to offer such as homelink and digital compass.

    There's the answer. you want $20 in parts and then complain those $20 in parts ran the cost of the car up $1200. You can't have it both ways. You can't moan about the price or the resale (yeah, spend $1200 extra to sell it for $600 more 3 years later) and then say you want really want the worthless options amongst the $1200 premium.

    Personally I really don't care much about IS' sports package. Like I said I am no where near as an enthusiast and the stock suspension works for me. I guess the bottom line is that I am really happy with the base IS350 + 18" wheel

    Why do you want 18s then? If you're not an enthusiast and you don't drive it hard, 16s or 17s would work better for you.

    Let's be clear about what you're buying. A stripped IS350. No memory seats. No auto wipers. No bi-xenons. Yeah 07s have bi-xenons for a bargain price of $800. A base IS350 is 37k.
  • saabhistorysaabhistory Member Posts: 7
    Why do you say this? This does not make any sense.

    The Saab brand is as much as a part of the automotive world as any other brand is.

    I am surprised to hear something like this. This is definitely a first.
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