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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
That's been my point all along. I didn't buy a Ody because it didn't meet my needs. Mine is a safe minivan, maybe not as safe as the Honda, but safe and it meets all my needs at a good price.
I am not putting down the Ody. If you saw one of those pictures I put up, you can see our other vehicles is a 2004 Honda Civic. But the Ody did not meet my needs. I wouldn't by a vehicle for safety alone if it doesn't.
I'm out of here for awhile.
Then it seems you have had nothing to dispute with me all along, as I have never claimed anything about your particular needs or choice, except that they were different than mine.
I'm glad you can at least clearly state your reasoning, it makes you seem a lot smarter than those who just cram "cheap cheap" down my throat at the mention of a Dodge vs. Honda.
I vote marine2 as Forumee of the month here.
Consider what $30k costs over 5 years. If one can pay cash for a vehicle, why? I can get a 5-yr loan @ 4.49%, and a 5yr CD @ 5%. My retirement account made 12% last year. putting that $30k into other investments would provide a better return, or less money paid out over 5 years. Payments @ 0% and earning a safe 5% in the bank yields $4k more after 5 years.
So, zero percent (or otherwise low) financing can save a person money even if he has the cash to pay for a vehicle. One must compare the total amount paid for the options, though. Not always is 0% the less costly choice vs. rebates.
So, So, $3500 saved in interest over 5 years plus the $1500 difference marine2 listed, plus the $500 warranty is $5500 less than the similar ody EX in his case.
Numbers are like surveys. Anyone can play with them to favor his own conclusions.
My wife drives an '05 Sportage bought about a month after its introduction last year. The Sportage is quiet and comfortable. Last week the sunroof was replaced under warranty due to a leak. Something like that gives me cause to take notice. Perhaps it is just an anomaly but it does make one wonder about the long run. The car does not squeak or rattle and is solid so we are hoping for the best.
Sounds great. Are all components covered bumper to bumper, or is this just a powertrain warranty?
Is there anyplace that lists the distance from the top of the seat to the floor. This dimension really makes a difference with seat comfort. Just a legroom dimension doesn't mean too much. I'm only 5'8" and in my Freestyle in the 2nd row I sit pretty much like I'm in a chair, but in my neighbor's Mazda MPV in the 2nd row my knees were up in the air and it was pretty uncomfortable.
These are just examples, but it would be nice to compare this height from vehicle to vehicle.
I've said this before: stats are great BUT you can't beat actually planting your own posterior in a car and giving it a trial fit.
If at all possible, I HIGHLY recommend going to a car show where you can go from model to model, repeatedly, and check these things in person.
I have my backlit LED dash set (also easy to do on the Ody) to get dimmer (like the radio Display on a Chrysler should do when the lights are on) when the lights are turned on. I drive a 96 Accord during the week and a 2006 Accord (backlit) on the weekends. I finally got used to it!
Happy motoring...I'm going to eat mexican in a little while, and I'm taking the NEW car. I always get a little jazzed about driving it since I take the old one in rush hour traffic everyday. Wierd? Yeah, probably.
I'm done rambling...for now. I promise.
Have a good day guys
thegrad
After I look at the warranty in details, if things look fishy, I can cancel within the first 30 days.
With that warranty, also comes free roadside service. In Arizona, if you want 100 mile towing through AAA, it runs close to $150.00 a year. Almost what it would cost to get an extended warranty over seven years. So it almost pays for it's self even if nothing goes wrong with your van.
You can find the basic details here:
http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Warranty/warr_Care.asp
I'd assume that like most warranties, wear and trim items are excluded...
I wouldn't say GM has quality, but quantity. It appears that Honda may have it the other way around as you see it.
But I do agree that quality doesn't have a thing to do with content. I also don't agree that there is a huge gap between Honda/GM/DC/etc. There's a gap, but it's not huge. The Hondas/Toyota still have small quality niceties that seperate them, but I put little thought into reliability factors these days. Maybe if I was planning to keep the vehicle for 10 years, but 3-5 years is about it for me on anything. Ford is the only make I've had problems with in that short period, but I think I just have bad Ford karma, so I avoid them.
That explains a lot.....
I helped seperate quantity (number of features, which GM does well on for the $) and quality (reliablity of the vehicle; which seems to be lacking from them in the last ten years FWIW) for the readers here. If this were a Chevy forum, I may have treated it a little differently.
I would like to see Auto-headlamps on Honda's, don't get me wrong. I think, from say, EX cloth model Odys/Pilots/Accords/CR-Vs etc..on upwards, that feature should work its way in soon. I don't want auto-locks on ANY of my cars, ever. I hate that feature in the Lexus I ride in (girlfriend's mother's car)sometimes...It doesn't matter the make of cars, I just don't like that feature. If my next car has them, I'll have them disabled before I leave the lot.
Maybe when the 08 Accord bows next year it will bring that Auto-On feature to us. I'm just happy my Honda finally has DRLs, although some aren't.
I do not believe personal experience is "bashing". This is an area where contrary opinion should be supreme. I saw no "bashing" in your post.
My 2003 Olds Silhouette was loaded with power features. This was supposed to be a premium ride yet it would rattle like a 1960's GM product. In the 52,000 miles I dove the Silhouette it was mechanically sound and economical to operate but I am sworn off GM for years to come. My '06 Odyssey is light years ahead of that van.
Is the %4.49 really that after all the fees etc?? And the 5% is added to your taxes?? SO?? Paying cash makes it easy so you don't blow the money on something else. People love to buy with no payments for 12 months cause they have the money. Then when the 12 months is done it gone. I always pay cash for my cars. I'll tell ya what it sure makes it easy to negotiate!!
So, So, $3500 saved in interest over 5 years plus the $1500 difference marine2 listed, plus the $500 warranty is $5500 less than the similar ody EX in his case.
Oh so what interest rate are you compareing it to. 25K @4.49% is 2957.00 now with the 1.9% offered to me by Honda it would be 1226.00. Is DCX offering 0% now??
Numbers are like surveys. Anyone can play with them to favor his own conclusions.
Thats why you should just look at the price difference and take it at face value. Of course here everyone wants to make 2K look like 10K. If my wife worked for DCX I might feel the same way.
Is the %4.49 really that after all the fees etc?? And the 5% is added to your taxes?? SO?? Paying cash makes it easy so you don't blow the money on something else. People love to buy with no payments for 12 months cause they have the money. Then when the 12 months is done it gone. I always pay cash for my cars. I'll tell ya what it sure makes it easy to negotiate!!
At my CU, 4.49% is the current rate if I set up auto deductions from a savings or checking account. No fees. 15 minutes to sign papers and get a check to take to a dealer. I've done it several times in the past 7 years (at various competitive market rates). I tell the dealer I pay cash as well. Just as easy to negotiate as you. Yes, a CD (my 5% example) would be taxed, but I could have a better return than the safe CD.
Oh so what interest rate are you comparing it to.
$25K at 4.49% vs. 0%. That's $3549. Or, $25k is the $2957 difference you said. My point was that anyone who got 0% finance rate could have taken a rebate worth at least $3k and paid cash thus making the sales price difference between more than the %1500 you mentioned above. Yes, DCX is offering 0% on minivans or $3k rebate for Feb 2006. This is short of the Nov/Dec 2005 $4500 availible to anyone.
Thats why you should just look at the price difference and take it at face value.
I disagree. Every major purchase should be evaluated on how much it will cost in terms of current and future dollars. Minimize the borrowing costs and maximize the investment returns.
Of course here everyone wants to make 2K look like 10K. If my wife worked for DCX I might feel the same way.
I said my price delta was $6500 when I got my minivan. It's been as high as $8k cash sales price for me since the time of my purchase for a DGC SXT vs. Hod Ody EX. I never claimed $10k, although I know others have whose wives do not work @ DCX. I also get FordMoCo employee pricing, and supplier price on Audi/VW, GM and Nissan/Infinity. Supplier price is typically very close to Invoice, so I do not consider any discount from a well negotiated price. I still bought a Lexus once because I thought it was what I wanted most for the money I paid (little discounts at the time for that model).
We all need to evaluate what we need/want vs. how much it cost. We all have different variables that will determine cash sale price. Local market, negotiating skills, special groups or clubs, etc.
I'm still trying to figure out these large price deltas.
According to Edmunds, the TMV for an '06 Ody EX (including destination) is $27.2k. This is would generally be a good deal although getting an EX for less should be doable.
According to Edmunds, the INVOICE price for the DGC SXT, stripped with NO OPTIONS is about $25.5k (including destination). Currently, there are $3k in rebates/incentives available. So, the best price I would reasonably believe for a DGC SXT would be $22.5k (again, for one with ZERO options. How many are really available like this?).
So assuming the Ody EX at TMV vs. the DGC SXT at invoice minus rebates, I see a maximum price delta of $4.7k.
Even if you are seriously dipping into the holdback, I can't see a price delta even APPROACHING $6.5k let alone $8k.
That is way off. I got my DGC, SXT with all standard equipment, plus power windows, power sliding doors, power rear hatch, overhead computer, adjustable pedals, power driver's seat, three way A/C, heated outside mirrors, power rear vents, remore entry with alarm, 3.8 engine, radio remote controls on the steering wheel and got it all for under $25,000. with Zero percent financing.
Its funny how people always post their winners but not their losers. I have contributed max into my 401 for the last 5 years. In 2002 I put in 11K and my 401K balance was 1K more than the start of the year. So results may vary! Market timing is for gamblers. Ok so your gonna put that in as a part of the price of the car RIGHT? Next thing I'll be hearing about puts and calls. I coulda and I did(well of course you did how would I know)!!
The forth is in John Hancock and it pays a straight 41/2% for the five years it's in there, no matter what the market does. That is why I didn't list it. The CGM's have been in there for years. I got into Focus when it started.
Take it up with Edmunds. I've found them to be remarkably accurate with both MSRP and invoices. I don't always agree with their TMV values but I didn't list those on the DGC SXT.
A couple of points: the prices I indicated were for '06 models. Isn't yours an '05?
Second: do you know if perhaps there were any rebates/incentives in place when you bought your SXT? I mentioned in my post that WITH THE CURRENT $3k REBATES, that the invoice on an '06 SXT w/ no options was $22.5.
Third: if you got your SXT for around $25k, how is it you talk about the HUGE price deltas (8-10k) compared to the Ody? The Ody EX has a TMV of $27.2k. This would be a bit more than a $2k price delta.
Why does it matter the Ex has all that but the pedals and how many people need that? 26K is the price people are paying right now. So how much would it cost to buy the Dodge with sideair with rollover sensors,and EBD?? It's not really a fair question but it's what I really wanted. Answer not even for 500K!! So now do you see how loaded your question is??
How much does Vehicle Stability Control cost as an option on the Dodge?
I won't ask these kinds of questions if you won't, since we both know the basic answer.
Your point is made, sir.
For you, that may be a valid comparison. For anyone else, it is only valid if the same Honda had no additional features not found the model you bought.
Comparing apples to oranges like this is misleading for price comparisons, even if it was relevant to your personal decision. It would be no more fair for someone to proclaim a $30,000 savings on their Yugo compared to a BMW, just because their main criteria was a particular shade of blue paint not found on any other model.
Not trying to pile on but....
It is generally recognized that the Ody EX has a number of features which the DGC SXT doesn't have (and can't get at any price). So your question was loaded.
Second, it is also generally recognized that the most comparable van (not identical by any means but closest in feature content) to the DGC SXT is the Ody EX.
And price comparisons between these two vehicles DON'T show the huge price delta (approaching 10k) which is often quoted.
Everything on that list (with the exception of the power rear hatch) is standard on the Ody EX. As you know, one must step up to the Ody Touring to get a power-rear hatch.
But by no means does that mean that the 'natural' competitor to the DGC SXT is the Ody Touring since the number of items standard on the Touring which is either not available or which is an option on the Dodge is longer than your arm.
My case included $2k dealer cash at the time plus the OEM rebates and $1k extra for the employee price. I've said it before, if anyone wants a Ford/Gm/DCX vehicle talk to the dealers in Detroit. I see many examples of extra dealer cash on the table.
I said it before, no one is trying to talk you out of your DGC. But just because YOU have these needs or YOU use your van in the manner you've posted, doesn't automatically mean everyone does.
Which is why I have problems with posts stating that a 'comparable' Ody is $8k to $10k more than a DGC. Because for MOST PEOPLE a 'comparable' vehicle to the SXT is not an Ody Touring. And posts proclaiming that the DGC is more 'family friendly' just because sto'n'go is more useful for marine2.
Well it's for sure Honda doesn't give people enough options that cause that big price difference. If you want an auto tailgate and are willing to pay $7,000.00 more to get it, more power to you. I'll invest the money or use it for other things I want.
Stow and go isn't for everyone. People that don't haul anything big, wouldn't have any use for it. Then buying the Honda would be right up your alley.
I'm price conscious. I fix most things around my home,I'll buy furniture, lumber, haul air compressors and other things families usually need and deliver it myself and save the $30-$40.00 fee.
It all boils down on what you use it for. I consider the Dodge a lot more family friendly than the Honda. I can use it as a big stationwagon or as a truck. Which is one reason I gave up my truck to buy this van.
No you made the price difference by compareing apples to oranges. Who wants a power gate that bad maybe $50 bucks so I don't get my hands dirty :P
I'm price conscious. I fix most things around my home,I'll buy furniture, lumber, haul air compressors and other things families usually need and deliver it myself and save the $30-$40.00 fee.
So you can haul all that stuff and you can't take out a couple of seats?? Now it doesn't take that long and it's really not a great arguement. Also all the seats have to go down. Usually I douct this another overstated use of the stow and go compared to Ody's rear only stowable seat. $1300 for a 7/70 warranty doesn't sound price consious to me.
It all boils down on what you use it for. I consider the Dodge a lot more family friendly than the Honda. I can use it as a big stationwagon or as a truck. Which is one reason I gave up my truck to buy this van.
Same here with only a little more effort. But for most loads I wouldn't have to do a thing rear area has 12 more cu feet than the DCX van and with 6 seated thats what I need.
I don't suppose it's occurred to you that you get a lot more than an auto tailgate for that $7k? No, I suppose it hasn't...and I'm too tired to sit here and itemize all the features one gets on the Ody Touring (or the Ody EX for that matter) which are extra cost or simply unavailable at ANY price of the DGC.
I'm not trying to tell you that YOU should have spent an extra $7k to get that auto tailgate. I'm simply saying that trying to equate a $25k DGC SXT with a $32k Ody Touring based PURELY ON AN AUTO TAILGATE is ridiculous.
"Stow and go isn't for everyone. People that don't haul anything big, wouldn't have any use for it."
You make it sound as though IF one were to haul large items, sto'n'go is the ONLY way to go.
Question: did Dodge owners haul stuff around before sto'n'go was invented? I'm fairly sure they did. I'm fairly sure that they hauled furniture and lumber and air compressors and other things families usually need and they delivered these items themselves. I don't think the concept of hauling items in a minivan was invented with sto'n'go.
Sto'n'go does ONE THING: it makes it more CONVENIENT. Period. That's it; nothing else.