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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
I guess it's a good thing they sold so many more vans after they did it.
I would be interested in seeing sales for the last couple years for DCX (pre-stowngo, post stowngo).
Find me a apple!
Sorry you had to go back 5 years to an old Motor Trend.
No the motor trend was from 2005. Is that 5 years ago?? I also included a Edmunds longterm.
DCX vans may not be perfect, but the much touted Ody isn't any better.
I expect the reliability to be very close.
Thank god all I need do is look at the exclusive "Ody problems 2005+" for an even longer laundry list of problems.
Yep I'm sure all that info is in line with reality.
Go look up other dirt yourself if you want to be nasty. It's obvious I don't need to help you.
I didn't want to put up the info I did. But by making gereral statement about how my van was doing(By saying we all have these issues over and over again it convinces people that it's true), I was forced to look for examples!
So ALL the people having issues with, for example wind noise is probably just a vast DCX conspiracy to make Honda look bad I bet!! Non of it is true!!! Same with exhaust boom etc.. and the rest of the 333 problem posts in the "2005+ Ody problems" thread since mid January!!!
Sir, I believe you think you can be disagreeable, but when someone puts up information you don't like you call them nasty! As for conspiracy theorys I don't deal in them. It's really for those who can't stand reality. I know all cars have issues but useing just internet forums is very SIMPLE!!!
Funny you should ask.
It took some digging over at autonews.com, but I was able to determine actual vehicle sales for DCX vans (which included some leftover Voyagers up until around '04). Total sales (not production, SALES) of DCX vans (Voyager, T&C, Caravan/grand Caravan) are as follows:
2000 455,468
2001 430,043
2002 408,681
2003 374,494
2004 386,664
2005 407,530
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA29331023.PDF
http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA411216.PDF
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/daimlerchrysler/dc-business-figures/chry- - sler-group-sales-prod-01.htm#Car%20&%20Truck%20Sales%202000-2001
So, it appears as though sales were up by about 20k units from '04 to '05 (and helped to reverse a fairly nasty trend).
I've no idea how many years one would spread the $400 million development cost over since a fair amount of that R&D would apply not just to the current vans but also to the next gen '08 DCX vans when they come out.
edit: hmmmm, it didn't like that long autointell.com address.
No, not at all.
socalawd is NOT saying that NO ONE is having problems. But you seem to be insinuating that ALL Odys have these problems. Such is not the case.
I wouldn't be surprised if there have been 333 posts in that thread since mid-January. After all, it is a Problems AND SOLUTIONS thread. Also, many folks feel the need to post (vent?) on multiple occasions for the same problem. This is not unique to the Odyssey; one can see this same thing in virtually any 'Problems/Solutions' thread. Part of the problem MAY be folks buying a Honda thinking it's going to be absolutely perfect. It's not. I do think however that many of the 'problems' reported in that thread are blown WAY out of proportion. Just IMO.
You seem to think that socalawd is lying when he states he hasn't experienced those problems. Actually, my wife and I haven't experienced any of those problems with our Odyssey either; although I'll admit that after reading about supposed windshield imperfections, I took a long HARD look at our windshield. After about 3 minutes of close inspection, yep, I found a tiny little something in the windshield (if examined at the right angle in the right light). But, since it went unnoticed for nearly a year, I don't think I need to go into the P&S thread and whine about it. And I wouldn't be surprised to find similar little imperfections in virtually ANY windshield if examined close enough.
We DID have a problem with a noisy slider not long after we got our van (making a fairly pronouced grinding noise with door operation) but the problem was excessive dirt buildup in the door channels. We live down a mile long dirt road which was being traversed at least 4 times a day. The dealer cleaned and lubed the track and recommended an occasional washing. Problem hasn't returned since.
All in all, we've been very pleased with our van's quality and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of OTHER Ody owners feel the same.
At the same time socalawd, because of his problems insinuates that all DCX owners have problems. Its good to point out both trees have rotting apples.
All in all, we've been very pleased with our van's quality and I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of OTHER Ody owners feel the same. Same for the 400,000+ yearly buyers of DCX vans. If that wasn't the case, after 20 years of manufacturing very poor quality minivans, they'd be selling far fewer!
If this was true in general, then how do you explain all of the sales for cars like the Cavalier and Malibu (prev. gen)?
Earlier in this same post I said the reliability is probably a wash! Maybe you got me confused with someone else??
Easy...I had a 1983 Cavalier, 2.0 TBI engine, 5 spd manual tranny. I put 180,000 VERY trouble free miles on this car. I gave it oil changes every 3000 miles, spark plug wires twice, brakes twice, belts and other regular maintainance. The ONLY thing that went bad on it was the starter motor which I replaced myself, during George HW Bush's swearing into office in January 1998!!! I remember because it was freezing outside and I'd run out, loosen a bolt, run back inside to warm up, then back out again..it took HOURS
Regardless of what so many self appointed experts say and write, Detroit builds fine basic transportation. If people went strictly by CR or Edmund's, we'd all be driving Japanese mindlessly. GM still sells plenty of Cavaliers and Malibus...think how many small car options are available in the US...Kia, Suzuki, Hyundai, Mazda, not to mention the biggies!!
Keep in mind, CR reports, well, consumer reports. So obviously, not everyone out there was as lucky as you. In fact, the late model Malibu was the worst sedan on their list for reliability.
How far did you have to go back to find that post! I didn't like the Caravan very much(too many nagging issues), I made a poor choice buying it! It did not suit my needs and didn't have the features I wanted. Plus I found it uncomfortable and too small(SWB). The DCX van is a good vehicle and a great price! I just wanted something else!
That carries as much credibility with me as the newpaper name "Pravda" (the Truth) in Russia.
backy, "The Forums Test Drive Team" #176, 29 Mar 2006 4:17 pm
Well, I guess that's fair, since it doesn't have to (it's not a communist propaganda paper). A lot of people DO feel differently about it than you do, bud. Not bashing ya, just trying to explain my (and a lot of others' views) on the subject. None of us are going to say that we are "more right", just that we each take different views on the subject.
I'm heading to the gulf, so I'll check ya later!
Really lets look at the cars Edmunds had rated high in the last few years!
Here's 2005 results! Small cars 1. Mazda3(owned by Ford)2. Ford focus, Family sedans 1. Volkswagon Passat Luxury sedan 1.Lexus 2. MB S Class Sporty cars 1. Audi A4 2. BMW 3 series(don't you own one of those?? Guess CR made the decision for ya) Large sedans 1. Toyota Avalon 2. Buick Park Ave. Roadsters 1. Porshce Boxster 2 Toyota MR2 Wagons 1. Passat 2. Audi Allroad. All the small Utes, Fuel efficent cars are mostly Japanese make due more to what the big 3 were putting out. Seems like allot of german cars on this list! My vote is for german bias!
Just out of curiousity, what published media/sources/etc. DO have credibility with you?
This guy likes price better than anything else! Look at some of his other reviews! It's just more of the same stuff, this guy owns 2 low priced cars!
Don't speak for me and don't guess for me please. I purchased my 325ci for it's fun to drive nature, having had VW GTi VR6 (FWD) previously. Even now, my baby is rated "average" by CR. I looked for almost a year prior to buying it. Was close to buying the Acura CL but it was boring to look at and only came with auto at the time.
If you look at CR's April issue....German cars aren't rated much better then the domestics i.e..the red dot/black dot section.
The biggest factor in buying a car is my personal likes/dislikes/needs...me first, not what CR raves about, or some "expert" at Car & Driver/MT/Edmunds. I get almost every auto rag delivered to my home and can read others at our office or the Visteon library.
Great. So, which of these publications have credibility to you? Or, do they ONLY have credibility when you agree with them?
Exactly!!
Probably a reason for that! Hopefully it will get better. As far as when I buy my next car,I'm concerned as long as it dosen't have many whole black circles on the engine/tranny and I like the car I'm fine with it. The differeance between the best and worst cars are really getting blured! I was talking about rateings not reliability!!
You are always telling me I have recalls and problems unfounded I must add! I can surely guess what I wish about you!! Wierd that you would buy a car and put almost to a word what CR says about it! Maybe those mags are onto something!!
Automotive News, Automotive Design..basically engineering oriented mags with more facts than personal opinion. I'll use CR for 0-60 times or other measureable data, not "engine sounds coarse" or "head rests block vision" (but only in a DCX van)
Could you repeat yourself, I'm not gonna try to read your mind, to figure out what you meant to say!!
My BMW hasn't been perfect, needing control arms at 30k miles (probably due to crappy MI roads) but I am so glad I didn't buy my other choices.
Overall MPG DGC SXT 17mpg. Honda Odyssey with VCM 19mpg.
WHY? Honda Odyssey Owners: MPG-Real World Numbers??????
All the testers on the same course give Ody better MPG. MT,CR,Etc,ETC. Find me one thats better!
Here's some posts from the Ody Real world numbers.
I have a very new 2006 Odyssey which I took on an 800 mile round trip (Interstate at speed limit +2) with about 400 miles on it. The 400 mile one way trip required 13.9 gallons (28.8 mpg) and 15.6 gallons for the return trip (25.6 mpg) for an average of 27.1 mpg.
Four tanks of gas, first was with some head wind and got 23.2 MPG, second with a lot of gusty head wind and some city driving got 19.4, coming home to Yuma with some tail wind got 27.3 MPG, and on home with some tail wind and driving around home area got 26.0.
I wonder if anyone has disabled the VCM and how it affected MPG.
I found this link from Popular Mechanics. It had over 130 2001 Caravan owners rate thier van and tell about the first year experience. Average mileage was about 4900. Over 12.5% said thier dislike was the gas mileage. Seem like a common complaint. Boy do you love forums to tell you everything! Let's see you don't believe me, I post in the forums then you shouldn't believe in forums. :surprise:
link title
BTW 42% had some sort of problem. Where are these people?? why don't they post on the forum page???42% of 400K is quite alot.
Of the people with problem 11% noises and rattles 9% power door problem and 5% brake squeal. Sound familiar??
Yep Nothing!!
Hmmm just wonder why "real world mpg" is so different (note correct spelling please) from this controlled CR test loop?
Let's see you don't believe me, I post in the forums then you shouldn't believe in forums.
Do you really want me to post other "real world" numbers? I don't think so.
But hey! if it makes you feel better to selectively choose a few positive MPG posts or go back and search Popular Mechanics for 2001 Dodge Caravan complaints - more power to you!
BTW 42% had some sort of problem. Where are these people?? why don't they post on the forum page???42% of 400K is quite alot.
Of the people with problem 11% noises and rattles 9% power door problem and 5% brake squeal. Sound familiar??
It appears you're switching on me again and obviously talking about the Odyssey here!! That's why it sounds so familiar to you...power door issues, exhaust booming, brake squeal.
At least Dodge owners don't spent $30k to have those same issues.
Did you even look at the data some people spent way over 30K on the 2001 caravan! It would help if somebody put thier buying price in for the DCX vans!!
Thats 1989(Note correct year)!! You get so much wrong and yet you try and correct my speeeling! :P
You may have noticed that a number of posts have been removed from this discussion during the past few days. That's because they were off-topic, disrespecful, and/or disruptive. Note that, when this happens, the number of active participants dwindles, which severely limits the possibility of a quality discussion. Please tone it down. Thanks.
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Edmunds paid $ 29,970 for their 1999 Odyssey EX. Edmunds sold it for $ 22,000. Isn't the actual depreciation $ 7,970? :confuse:
So which is it? Do you prefer numbers from tests with controlled conditions and comparable results? Or, do you prefer real world anecdotes with widely varying conditions and driving habits? Or, worst of all, do you just pick whichever suits you at the time?
Heck, my Odyssey seems like it goes 0-60 in 6 seconds! Surely, the obvious conclusion is that there must be something wrong with those numbers at Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Motor Week, EPA, etc, etc.
It doesn't matter what I prefer, since I don't own one. I'm very happy with my van getting EPA numbers or even better on the highway. I'm just noting the extreme differences for Ody mileage. Seems many consumers aren't happy with their own numbers, and they vary widely from the "experts". Enough so that even Edmund's created a thread to address this issue.
Heck, my Odyssey seems like it goes 0-60 in 6 seconds! I raced a Corvette Z06 on Sunday and beat it from a stoplight, so I guess my 0-60 mph time is about 3.7 seconds!
Own what? I was asking in general. It does matter if you have a tendency to simply dismiss numbers that don't support your beliefs, regardless of the source.
"I raced a Corvette Z06 on Sunday and beat it from a stoplight, so I guess my 0-60 mph time is about 3.7 seconds! "
My point, exactly.
Thanks.
I haven't read either of these - was there anything published in either of these fact-oriented publications which would lead one to consider a DCX van to be better than an Ody? If so, I'd be curious to know what it was?
Yes 51 entries in 11+ months people seem to be really bothered by this issue, some are getting pretty good results! Now as far as forums being created theres the DCX transmission problems forums with over a 1000 entries. Maybe you are onto something!
I raced a Corvette Z06 on Sunday and beat it from a stoplight, so I guess my 0-60 mph time is about 3.7 seconds!
Well looks like the most believable thing you've ever written. :P