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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans

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Comments

  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Or, take the 80's Walkman he has and plug it into the aux input port.

    I meant those to be seperate points. There may be significant improvements to the DCX vans that are worth waiting for. THe prices for competitors should drop as well as outgoing models.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I did plug a 2006 "Jensen" Cassette player into the aux input port and it worked. However, it was cumbersome and the Jensen does NOT have the high quality of DC factory cassette players.
    I noticed that the 2007 Odyssey has the following optional accessories: cassette player, an MP3 adaptor, or a genuine I-pod connection accessory. Honda seems to be smarter with accessories than Toyota.
    My wife likes the overhead console with compass, outside temperature and trip computer which alienates her against the Odyssey EX.
    Considering all nice features, the DC minivans provide the greatest number of features we want in a minivan even though they don't get the "Most Recommended" for purchase award from CR, MT, or Edmunds. The fact that a DC minivan can be purchased with options we want for thousands $$$$$$ less than the Odyssey may trump my feeling that the Odyssey is "THE BEST MINIVAN". ;)
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    Maybe you should purchase a 12V-DC to 120V AC converter, and plug your home stereo tape deck into it in your minivan and then connect it to the aux input. Don't know how a stereo system tape deck would take the bouncing around, and the tape deck is likely to be a bit bulky. Good thing minivans have a lot of space available, and most ride fairly smoothly! It might also not react well to the wide ranging temperatures that can occur in a minivan sitting in the heat or in the cold.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The BEST way to have quality music from cassettes is to dump the Sienna and get either a new 2007 Odyssey EX and get the optional cassette player or a new DaimlerChrysler minivan where a quality cassette player is standard equipment. :shades:
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Dude, it's a cassette. How much quality do you expect to get? The tape loses sound quality every time you play it. You also used a Jensen portable cassette player. Maybe a better quality one would sound better. Is the inconvienece worth losing $5-7k on your 2006 Sienna?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    IPOD IPOD IPOD IPOD IPOD IPOD!!!!
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    You could by a lot of CD's to replace your tapes for the money you will lose by dumping the Sienna now, even if you don't want to go the ipod route.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    You could by a lot of CD's to replace your tapes for the money you will lose by dumping the Sienna now, even if you don't want to go the ipod route.

    No doubt. I was surprised at how cheap a lot of "old" CD's were. I was flipping through CD's awhile back and some were under $5. I've moved all my collection to mp3 as well. Well, I paid a kid to do it for me. Didn't take him long to rip 6gig of music for me.
  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,244
    Any computer nerd worth his weight in floppy discs should be able to copy hans cassettes onto C. D. :shades:
    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Well, to be fair to hansienna, from what I understand he wants a cassette player because he has a collection of books on tape (BTW - I've never listened to a book on tape, but usually when I read a book I don't really have any desire to reread it for several years. Is it different with books on tape? :confuse:)

    So, from that standpoint, it might be a bit more difficult to simply 'replace' his cassette collection with CD's.

    And ripping music and stuff from CD's to mp3 certainly can be pretty quick (I can typically rip a 60 minute album to mp3's in about 5 minutes). But converting analog sources (stuff on cassettes or vinyl albums) CAN'T be done (AFAIK) any faster than normal playback speed. And somehow I doubt hansienna wants to go through the hassle of playing ALL those tapes, at normal playback speed, into a computer for conversion to mp3s.

    I went through this awhile ago with my collection of cassettes and vinyl; it was a royal PITA to play back the albums, one track at a time (to get the individual .wav files). But at least now I'm able to listen to stuff I haven't listened to in YEARS in my car.....
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Sadly, there are very few CD's with the same artist, or artists, and same content that are on my cassettes that I have purchased during the 35 years between 1970 and 2005. :cry:
    I had a dual cassette deck and recorded the original onto a duplicate to listen to at work on the walkman...and kept the original in excellent condition to listen to on my quality stereo system at home. :shades:
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    STOP STOP STOP Hans!!!!!! You're dating yourself!!! Go out and buy yourself an Ipod (the real thing, not a cheap knockoff) and join the modern world! No more talk of cassettes and walkmans!!! If you talk of 8 tracks, I'll hunt you down!!! Please I BEG YOU!!!!! You'll have all your songs at your finger tip, family photos, videos etc... Then make sure your next vehicle has the audiojack to plug your tunes into!! 70% of all 2007 vehicles should have this jack. I think GM was one of the first, but my company is building them for Ford and DCX.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Sadly, there are very few CD's with the same artist, or artists, and same content that are on my cassettes that I have purchased during the 35 years between 1970 and 2005.

    Oh, they're probably easily downloadable. If you can dream it up, it's out there on the web.
  • aaron_taaron_t Member Posts: 301
    Hans, I am partially jesting you. If am not trying to offend you.

    Converting cassettes to mp3 would take a lot of time. From the playing back at normal listening speed to editing each song as one mp3 file. Finding some bored teenager to do it might be worth investigating. It is also worth checking the big music web sites for some of those old favorites, though. You would be surprised to find out what it available. It isn't just the top 40 for each music group. If you can find a fan club of the artist, they may also be willing to share their mp3's.

    You could also replace the OEM head unit with an aftermarket tape player instead of CD. It probably won't look as nice, but it will work and sound good. Heck, you could just wire it up as a secondary HU and plug the preamp outputs to the aux input of the OEM HU. Keep that HU in a storage compartment and plug it in only when listening to tapes.

    My main point is that there are several options that you should consider before you sell your <1yr old van and take a $5k depreciation hit. Everything has a cost to it, time, monitary, etc. We all made compromises when picking our vehicles. We picked and chose the things we could either accept or easily change vs. those that had be right from the OEM. Most of the (minor) complaints you've had with your Sienna can be remidied fairly inexpensively. That's why there is never one signle best vehicle for every customer. We all want different things or value things differently.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Not the only reason to trade off Sienna. ;)
    I just like the DC minivans best for passenger usage and the FORD F-150 best when I need a real truck...like hunting or fishing in Wyoming. :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    YES, I recall seeing many 8 track units in the early 70's but none of my vehicles ever had the 8 track player. I have to admit that my first quality stereo tape deck was a reel to reel as I was under the impression that reel to reel tape decks had higher quality sound than cassettes. :P

    Who builds the MP3 input jack for the Toyota Siennas?
  • dennisctcdennisctc Member Posts: 1,168
    Who builds the MP3 input jack for the Toyota Siennas?

    Not sure who does, or if Toyota offers it?? I know we (Tyco Electronics) builds them for Ford and DCX. The new Expedition has our's in the center stack next to power outlet. My iPod came with simple adaptor to mate the two.
  • hangaralf1hangaralf1 Member Posts: 107
    but I i think the audio issues are minor compared to the way the two vans drive.

    the ody is tight, positive and predictable. SOmething this big shouldn't handle sooo well. but it does

    the DCX van is probably the worst driving van i have ever driven. I tested everything, toyota, hyundai, honda, GM when shopping for this last car.

    I will give you this - i do get car sick. that's why i drive whereever i go. i don't get sick when i'm driving.
    unless i'm driving the DCX van. i have never seen this before. Honestly, the way the DCX van seats put you on a perch way high up in the van so that your head bangs into the top of window frame and then teeters you in the turns - i felt like Goofy in one of those Disney movies where he's driving some antique beater canted into some impossible angle going around the turns.

    what's with that leaf spring suspension anyway? This is the new millennium. It's a car not an Amish buggy.

    BTW - with regards to sports cars - doesn't Honda have a couple of Odysseys on the racing circuit?
  • fx35awdfx35awd Member Posts: 218
    Yes, you are correct on the couple of Odysseys on the racing circuit. I was thrill to see it. It was in the Car and Driver magazine several issues back from this current one. It was an awesome sight to see. It showed a picture of two tuned Odyssey Vans. Very nice. Wow!!
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    Let's see what $8,000 can buy used, shall we?

    1997 Odyssey, 119K $7999
    1995 Odyssey, 124K $7295
    1998 Town & Country, 102K $6995
    1999 Grand Voyager, 84K $6595
    2000 Grand Voyager, 72K $5898
    1999 Grand Caravan, 87K $5198
    2002 Windstar, 51K $7195
    2001 Windstar, 76K $5475
    2001 Venture, 88K $7488
    2000 Venture, 95K $7028

    Just a sampling from the local Auto Trader.

    Interesting, in that sub-$8,000 price range, how much newer of a van I can get for the money than a used Odyssey. They are newer, they have fewer miles, and they are all V6 powered. There aren't hardly even any 99-up Odysseys for under $10,000 let alone $8,000

    But I'll be honest. I would not touch a Windstar or Venture at any price because of powertrain reliability. Then again with horror stories of Toyota engine sludge, Honda automatics failing, and Chrysler automatics limping along in 2nd gear, there aren't ANY minivans that are 100% reliable. The Chryslers are more forgiving, I guess. At least they CAN limp home.

    If the $5198 Caravan is still there when we get to the dealer with checkbook in my wife's hand, it's coming home with us after a rigouous test drive and getting it up on a lift to check for trans leaks. The 2000 Grand Voyager and 2000 Venture are on the same lot. Venture is a Warner Brothers edition with DVD player and OnStar. Too bad it's in a Venture, because my wife really wants OnStar. If only GM had offered the bulletproof Buick 3.8L engine as an option in those vans. They dropped it after the 1996 model year back when they were still dustbuster-looking Lumina APV's.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    After another classifieds search in the newspaper a few minutes ago, I did find one 1999 Odyssey in my area at a Mitsubishi dealer for $5995, but it has 139,000 miles on it. Can't be financed with those miles, otherwise I'd jump on it.

    Or not.

    It's green...trying to avoid green...wife doesn't like green...I don't like green...our house is beige with maroon trim so green doesn't go except at Christmas time...
  • 97xpresso97xpresso Member Posts: 249
    Go for the $5898 Grand Voyager! 15,000 less miles, it's a 2000, so the trans was factory filled with ATF+4. For only $700 more, that's what I would do.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    I do want that van. The only thing that keeps me from buying it over the Dodge is that it has a bench in the 2nd row instead of buckets. Much easier to leave the 2 child seats in the buckets and have the other 3 kids walk between the buckets to get to the back. But I guess I could always grab a pair of buckets from a junkyard 2000 model, and sell the bench on CL.

    Oil cap underside, oil dipstick, and trans dipstick are cleaner on the Dodge, too. But both have freshly changed oil and pink trans fluid so I guess it's OK.

    Other small item to note is the Dodge has the Infinity sound with the CD/cassette deck. But those sell on eBay for $100-$150 and the speakers in the Chrysler sounded fine to me, no scratching or popping. I just need to find a way to wire in an input for my iPod Shuffle. Maybe I'm just stuck using one of my old CD player-to-cassette adapters for awhile. I hope they still work.

    The Venture is gone, thank goodness, I was afraid my wife would insist on the OnStar if it was available at the same car lot even for $1100 or $1800 more. I won't buy a 3.4L van just to get that, she'll have to wait until we replace the Lumina in a year or two and then I'll look for a Superior Blue 3.8L Impala LS or LT for her.

    My wife is mildly interested in the high mileage Odyssey, but it is green. Even if the dealer can finance it with that many miles (I doubt it, they don't offer in-house notes), I think a lower mileage van may be a better deal for the family. And that Chrysler is the lowest save for that 2002 Windstar, which is priced below Edmunds TMV Trade value, so I'm leery of it for that reason only.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    We're expecting our third child and made the decision about a month ago to get a minivan. I want something very safe so looked at Insurance Institute for Highway Safety Data first so see what Minivans would be the safest on the road. I ruled out Kia and Hyundai because no long term reliability data exists(and a bias against them as my wife's college car was a Hyundai Scoupe and it was piece of @%@#.) Anyway what was left was Honda, Toyota, and Dodge.

    I really thought going into this we'd buy a Dodge as hands down you can buy a loaded new van for about $4,000 or $5,000 less then the Honda and Toyotas. Here are the reasons we didn't. #1. The second row stow and go seating is the most uncomfortable car seat I think I've ever sat in. The first day we looked at them, my back was bugging me and man there was a world of difference between the Honda and the Dodges back seats. The Dodge second seat is extremely short and hard. #2 the ergonomics of the Honda driving controls are better and quality seemed better. My wife commented that some of the controls on the Dodge felt like they could fall off. #3 No Stability Control. A must have option in my opinion. We ran the Dodge at 70 on the interstate and swerved from lane to lane and there was so much body sway, I thought it would flip if we jerked the wheel any faster. The Honda was much more stable when doing the same thing. #4 Curtain side air bags are only available on the high dollar versions of the Dodge where as it's available on all levels of the Honda. These airbags are the only thing that make the Dodges half way safe in a side collision.

    In defense of the Dodge the current version is pretty dated and due for a restyle in the next year or two. The Dodge's 3.8 engine was strong and the transmission was fairly good for being an old 4 speed. I liked the Honda's exterior styling best, but I think the Dodge's still looks really good for as old as it is. It's certainly better looking then the Toyotas. Hopefully Dodge will catch up with the next version in styling and substance.

    We bought a Honda EX at the end of the day. I'd sure like to buy domestic(I grew up with Dodges and have driven GM's my entire adult life), but they just don't have anything in the pipe that compare with the Honda in my humble opinion. :confuse:
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    Stability control has nothing to do with "body sway". It is an electronic nanny for people who can't control a vehicle in a skid.

    The new DCX vans will be on the road by this time next year.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "We ran the Dodge at 70 on the interstate and swerved from lane to lane and there was so much body sway, I thought it would flip if we jerked the wheel any faster."

    I highly suspect that you drove a model without the "Touring Suspension" option. Said option includes (among other upgrades) front and rear anti-sway bars. Both of our DGCs have the upgraded suspension and the difference between them and the various rental Caravans I've had while traveling has been like night and day.

    Looked at from another perspective, when optioned with the Touring Suspension, the DC minivans have been considered by the car rags to be the best handling vans out there, bar none. I second that as I've driven our neighbors Odyssey any number of times. We live in an area of rolling foot-hills covered with winding roads, in that environment the Ody cannot even hope to keep up with our Caravans.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    Looked at from another perspective, when optioned with the Touring Suspension, the DC minivans have been considered by the car rags to be the best handling vans out there, bar none. I second that as I've driven our neighbors Odyssey any number of times. We live in an area of rolling foot-hills covered with winding roads, in that environment the Ody cannot even hope to keep up with our Caravans.

    Which rags? I'm curious to know what else they said about the DC vs. Ody and whether you believed that, too.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "Stability control has nothing to do with "body sway". It is an electronic nanny for people who can't control a vehicle in a skid."

    Which happens to be the vast majority of drivers. Everyone is an expert until they get into a major crash, of course.

    I wonder if DC will be using this as part of their advertising for minivans until they get stability control? The Viper doesn't have stability control, either, so maybe there is some corporate philosophy that would bolster shipo's remarks in regard to their uber handling models.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Which rags?"

    I don't remember off hand, the last time I read up on these was a couple of years back when we bought our second van. That said, I really appreciate a good handling vehicle (my last three cars were German made, the last two of which were BMWs, and the last one had the Sport Suspension), and it only took a quick test drive on some challenging roads to discern the best handling minivan each time we bought.

    I understand that Honda has since redesigned the Odyssey (2005 I think) and that I have yet to drive one of these newer models; however, I've yet to hear anything that suggests that their handling is any better than the previous version. That said, if ride compliance and isolation from road noise and road imperfections are more important to any given individual, then the Honda seems to have the edge in that department. Given the choice between handling and road feel versus ride compliance and noise isolation, I'll pick the former every time. Personal preference.

    I'm curious to know what else they said about the DC vs. Ody and whether you believed that, too.

    As best as I can recall, the Ody and the DC minivans were pretty neck and neck in the reviews I've read and also in my personal experience. That said the following is a list of a few subjective opinions:

    - I like the seats in the Gen3 and early (pre-Stow & Go) Gen4 vans the best. The Ody is a close second here and the later Gen4 vans are a distant third.
    - The ergonomics of the DC minivans seem to be more logical to me, that said, it could well be that I'm just more used to them.
    - The Honda power doors seem to be nicer than the ones on our Gen4 DGC ES.
    - The Honda seems to have a little more power in the upper RPM ranges than either of our 3.8 liter vans, that said, the DC vans have much more usable low RPM torque making urban driving easier.
    - I hate automatic transmissions and as good as both units shift, I still don't like them. That said, the Honda shifts smoother, unfortunately that smoothness seems to come at the expense of some frailty when compared to the much maligned DC minivan transmission (of the three Odysseys in our neighborhood, they have needed a combined four replacement transmissions while the three DGCs which are of a similar age and mileage, have only needed a single transmission (our 1998), and that one went at 109,000 miles).
    - The Honda and Gen4 DC vans have better brakes than the Gen3 DC vans by a significant margin.
    - I'm not a fan of garbage collecting (especially if you have a family) hide-a-seat systems and as such I much prefer the fold-n-tumble rear and middle seat system of the early Gen4 DC minivans. That said, the stowable Honda seats are FAR more comfortable than the rear stow-n-go seats of the late Gen4 vans. The Gen3 vans have the most comfortable rear seats of the group but, yikes, that bench is both heavy and awkward.

    If I think of others I'll post them later.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I wonder if DC will be using this as part of their advertising for minivans until they get stability control? The Viper doesn't have stability control, either, so maybe there is some corporate philosophy that would bolster shipo's remarks in regard to their uber handling models."

    Handling at the limit (or near depending upon the system) has nothing to do with stability control systems. Said systems should only engage when the driver exceeds the limits of the vehicle and is in trouble. Both of my last two cars have had very competent suspensions and DSC, and short of driving on glare ice or deep snow, I had to try very hard to cause the DSC system to engage.

    The fact is that no electronic nanny is a good replacement for a competent suspension.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The fact is that electronic nanny is a good replacement for a competent suspension.

    When you have both, as in the Odyssey, you have a handling winner, and the added security of emergency stability control/foul weather stability.

    A quote from Car and Driver agrees that the Odyssey is a GREAT handler among minivans

    The Odyssey&#146;s chassis is similarly well developed, delivering a comfortable ride over all surfaces while still providing precise handling that is unusually responsive for a van. From the driver&#146;s seat, the Odyssey is the best van on the market.

    This practical and emotional goodness is combined with a nicely finished and well-laid-out cabin, full of useful nooks and crannies. And in keeping with its people-carrying mission, the Odyssey is equipped with a full range of safety features including curtain airbags for all three seats that deploy in incipient rollovers and stability control to reduce the chance that a roll will ever occur.



    From Car and Driver's "5 Best Trucks" - which the Odyssey was awarded again this year (06) as Best Minivan
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I come down on the side of Honda for handling and Chrysler for handy nooks and crannies.

    My Ody is pre-stability control but I won't buy a new car taht doesn't have it in the future.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    My bad. I meant to write (and have since edited) the following:

    The fact is that no electronic nanny is a good replacement for a competent suspension.

    "A quote from Car and Driver agrees that the Odyssey is a GREAT handler among minivans."

    I never said it was bad, I simply stated that in the curvy environment that we have here in southern New Hampshire, the Odyssey plays second fiddle to the Gen3 and Gen4 DC minivans when it comes to handling. There is no doubt in my mind that the Honda has a smoother and quieter ride, and on balance is probably the best compromise between isolation and precision, however, unless Honda has dramatically upgraded the suspension of the latest version, it isn't the best handling minivan out there.

    My neighbor who has a 2002 Ody is always stunned when he drives our 1998 DGC (which he has done several times this year while his Ody was in the shop for a new tranny) simply because it is so much easier to navigate the three very curvy miles between our houses and the local highway.

    Best Regards.
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "My Ody is pre-stability control but I won't buy a new car taht doesn't have it in the future."

    Hmmm, I'm trying to figure out why. We get lots of snow here in New Hampshire and even when I had to drive our 1998 DGC with one leg (I broke my right leg meaning that I couldn't drive my 530i 5-Speed) during a winter where we got 114" of snow I never found the need for a stability system to bail me out. Having had cars both with and without, I would never make that a criteria upon which I would decide between one car and another.

    With the above in mind, I suspect that within a year or two, virtually all cars will have some form of a stability system (they are a couple of decades old after all, so it's about time) so the argument will become moot very soon.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With the above in mind, I suspect that within a year or two, virtually all cars will have some form of a stability system (they are a couple of decades old after all, so it's about time) so the argument will become moot very soon.

    It will be federally mandated by 2009, IIRC.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    You've got it backwards comparing to the '05+ Odys. It's a more firm ride, slightly more road noise, but far better handling. The slight width increase, lower cg, and more suspension firmness changed a lot. And the steering is top-notch for road-feel. The Ody is the first minivan I cared to own, because like you, we drive a lot of very twisty/hilly roads. My Mother has had nothing but DC minivans, the current a Touring model and it's not in the same ballpark in terms of drivability. The Ody is a sports car, the Caravan is comfortable and soft, comparably speaking.

    Stability control CAN improve normal driving. Look at most slalom tests and cars with stability will outperform those without. But either way, it's really for those situations you don't plan for. Maybe my experience as a racer makes me a better driver than most, but I can admit that you can't beat electronics at ALWAYS being on their game. Even the best drivers can be caught off-guard.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    To me snow isn't nearly the issue that ice is.

    I readily admit that I've driven you don't want to know how many years without stability control, but then I drove without air bags and even some old pre-seat belt cars with hard dashes. I am now of the school that I'll take every safety item they can come up with if the vehicle is competitively priced. So bring on the stability control! Bring on 6 air bags!

    I can't directly compare current models unless I go out and test just for that purpose. When the Ody had a glass problem at a particularly inopportune moment I rented a T&C for the weekend. (Never have glass break on a Friday night!) Drove it two hours from the flats of South Jersey to teh twisty hills in the north and back. It was fine, but I liked the Ody better. Close call in many areas.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • socalawdsocalawd Member Posts: 542
    I never said it was bad, I simply stated that in the curvy environment that we have here in southern New Hampshire, the Odyssey plays second fiddle to the Gen3 and Gen4 DC minivans when it comes to handling. There is no doubt in my mind that the Honda has a smoother and quieter ride, and on balance is probably the best compromise between isolation and precision, however, unless Honda has dramatically upgraded the suspension of the latest version, it isn't the best handling minivan out there.

    I owned a 2001 Caravan for 4+ years the 2005 Ody I have handles way better. Way less body roll and better road feel ;) . In the Caravan the engine/tranny are noisier. But the honda has a bit more tire noise on curtain types of roads. The stability control will almost never come on only in very extreme cases so it has little to do with day to day driving. I do like the fact it's there if a problem occurs. Studies have seen a large reduction in crashes/deaths. The results are based on small groups but it looks very promising. :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You've got it backwards comparing to the '05+ Odys. It's a more firm ride, slightly more road noise, but far better handling. The slight width increase, lower cg, and more suspension firmness changed a lot. And the steering is top-notch for road-feel. The Ody is the first minivan I cared to own, because like you, we drive a lot of very twisty/hilly roads. My Mother has had nothing but DC minivans, the current a Touring model and it's not in the same ballpark in terms of drivability. The Ody is a sports car, the Caravan is comfortable and soft, comparably speaking.

    No, I don't think I have it backwards at all. True, I didn't know that the new Ody was wider and lower and that will certainly improve things from the "driving a waterbed" feel of our neighbors' 2002 Ody, and that may even make it meet or exceed the handling of the Touring Suspension equipped Gen3 and Gen 4 vans (which are the same basic physical structure and suspension). Assuming that is in fact the case, well, good for Honda, they've finally bested a design that is now in its 12th (and final) year of production. ;-)

    That you Mom has a Touring model T&C in no way means that her van has the "Touring Suspension", it may, or it may not, it was an extra cost option. The way you can tell is to take a peek at the rear suspension, if it has a sway bar, then it is the Touring Suspension, if not, it ain't.

    Stability control CAN improve normal driving. Look at most slalom tests and cars with stability will outperform those without.

    Are you serious? Slalom tests are anything but real world.

    But either way, it's really for those situations you don't plan for. Maybe my experience as a racer makes me a better driver than most, but I can admit that you can't beat electronics at ALWAYS being on their game. Even the best drivers can be caught off-guard.

    I find that comment a little suspect as well. Every time I've been to a BMW event at one of our local tracks, EVERYBODY turns off their skid control systems so that they can improve the handling of their cars. That said, when driving in slippery conditions with either of my "i" model BMWs I made damn sure the DSC was engaged (no surprise there). The counterpoint to those two cars is the minivan, a benign sled like handling FWD vehicle, complete with inherent understeer. Go into a corner too fast on one of these things, Odyssey, Caravan, Sienna, it makes no difference, stability control is only going to be able to do so much.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I took a peek at the specs for the 2002 Ody versus the 2007 and found the following:

    1) no stats on ride height and ground clearance. :mad:
    2) the front track of the new car is .6" wider
    3) the rear track of the new car is .7" wider
    4) the tire size has been bumped up from a 225 section width tire to 235 mm

    I'm thinking that much (if not all) of the wider track of the new van can be attributed to the wider tires, and that any improvements in road feel and handling can also be attributed to the new/wider tire size.

    Question for those of you in the know: Is the new 2006 and later Odyssey a complete ground up redesign or just a heavy face lift like DC did to their minivan lineup back in 2002?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Odyssey was redesigned for 2005.

    You don't think that they made ANY changes to the suspension or steering from the 1999 Odyssey to the redesign in 2005? After driving two different 2000 models extensively, and driving my great aunt's 2005 quite often (did a 1400 mile trip last year in it, actually), I can tell you that the old Odyssey feels more numb than the new one. The new one is sharper and crisper; nearly identical to my Accord.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "I don't remember off hand, the last time I read up on these was a couple of years back when we bought our second van."

    If you find any for the current generation, please list them.
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "Handling at the limit (or near depending upon the system) has nothing to do with stability control systems. Said systems should only engage when the driver exceeds the limits of the vehicle and is in trouble. Both of my last two cars have had very competent suspensions and DSC, and short of driving on glare ice or deep snow, I had to try very hard to cause the DSC system to engage.

    The fact is that no electronic nanny is a good replacement for a competent suspension.     "

    No disagreement on these points. I happen to prefer vehicles with good emergency handling characteristics and also stability control. Given the inherent physics of top-heavy vehicles like SUVs and even minivans to some extent, I still have to wonder why this feature was omitted on the DC vans. Perhaps most of the soccer mom demographic are really professional drivers and don't like intrusive features that affect their driving ability at traction limits?
  • cpsdarrencpsdarren Member Posts: 265
    "Question for those of you in the know: Is the new 2006 and later Odyssey a complete ground up redesign or just a heavy face lift like DC did to their minivan lineup back in 2002? "

    I have no idea how extensive the redesign was. Having traded a 2001 Odyssey for a 2006 Odyssey, I can say that in my opinion the handling is not significantly improved. That's not all bad, since I thought the 2001 had very good handling for its class and size, as did some of the magazines I recall reading at the time (Consumer Reports, Motor Trend, Edmunds).

    The magazines I read before purchasing my 2006 said the same thing, though I didn't drive a DC van due to the lack of stability control, limited availability of side curtain airbags, lack of an 8th seat option, somewhat lower crash test scores and more difficult child seat installs due to seatbelts, seats and limited lower anchor and tether locations. While handling wasn't a top factor for me, I certainly would have ruled out any minivan I deemed to have unsafe handling characteristics (none did). Perhaps I'm not the expert at making such comparisons, but I didn't find night and day differences among any of the 4000+ pound minivans I drove, certainly none to remind me of a true sports car or even a somewhat competent sporty sedan.

    Of course, I have no idea which suspensions or chassis upgrades were included on the DC vans in the older reviews so that may account for my varying observations. Perhaps the special suspension you mention is a hard-to-find feature? In the newer reviews, it is usually the Grand Caravan SXT or T&C Limited that is tested in magazine comparisons (March 2005 Consumer Reports, May 2005 Motor Trend, August 2006 Motor Trend, Edmunds 2006).
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Of course, I have no idea which suspensions or chassis upgrades were included on the DC vans in the older reviews so that may account for my varying observations. Perhaps the special suspension you mention is a hard-to-find feature?"

    It didn't use to be when we ordered our first DGC in 1998 and again for our second in 2003. That said, I just checked both the Dodge and Chrysler web sites and the "Touring Suspension" is no longer an option. Checking further I was unable to find any reference to the suspension as standard equipment either, however, it seems that configuring a van with the 16" wheels and the Trailer Towing Package will get you all of the parts (among others) that used to be considered the upgraded suspension.

    Assuming this has been the case for a year or two, then it is highly unlikely that any recent reviews of DC minivans had the suspension that is on both of our vans. More's the pity as it really transforms the van from a waterbed on wheels to a very decent handler. Not that I would call either of our vans canyon carvers, but they are both way more tacked down any of the previous generation Odysseys that I've driven.

    Unless I'm missing something I will now officially conceed that the Odyssey is most likely the best handling minivan out there.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Unless I'm missing something I will now officially conceed that the Odyssey is most likely the best handling minivan out there.

    I don't think we were pulling for a "victory," but since you haven't driven a current Odyssey, I don't think you know how well they have become as a sporty handler vs. the old model (which rode more choppy and had more numb on-center steering). Too bad they don't offer the touring suspension option for a DGC "Sport", or even just have the Dodge as the sporty one, and the T&C the soft one.

    thegrad
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    No argument from me and I add that the Odyssey has THE most comfortable seating for ALL 7 (or 8 with the Plus One seat).
    However, some of us still live on a budget. Our choice must include the BEST overall minivan for a reasonable price.
    After owning a 2002 T&C LX, I have been spoiled by the quiet ride with separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger AND the complete overhead console with compass/outside temperature and accurate trip computer.
    The Odyssey has NO complete overhead console while the DC trip computer was watered down in 2003 so it is NOT as desireable as the one in my 2002 T&C.
    I stupidly got a 2006 Sienna LE and overlooked the lack of separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger. BIG mistake. The Sienna does NOT live up to expectations.
    Since the Odyssey does NOT have the complete overhead console, my next choice will be the GC SXT even though the interior is plain in appearance compared to the Ody EX.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Since the Odyssey does NOT have the complete overhead console, my next choice will be the GC SXT even though the interior is plain in appearance compared to the Ody EX.

    What comes in the overhead console that you can't get on the Odyssey? The Odyssey has temp in the odometer display, you can get a compass-rear view mirror as an accessory, and the overhead area of the Odyssey contains homelink garage door openers, an ambient light, map lights, a sunglass holder, and a conversation mirror built-in to the sunglass holder (ask me about it if you dont know what i mean about the mirror). Just letting you know all your options on the Honda.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I can NOT get the complete overhead console with compass/outside temperature AND Trip Computer in an Odyssey EX (cloth) that I can get in either a comparably priced Sienna LE or GC SXT.
    I did NOT get the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger in the Sienna LE. That was stupid since I want warm and my wife wants cold.
    Still, before I trade off the Sienna, my wife and I will VERY carefully compare the Odyssey EX (cloth) and GC SXT. Both have their advantages. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Trip computer isn't available, true, but you can get the compass as a dealer accessory, and the temp comes in the EX cloth model, it is just in the instrument cluster near the speedometer instead of overhead. No instant mileage computer is available, however.
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