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Comments
Bob
http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&page=1&reviewid=542
- I voted and I can't get up!!!-
Mike: "I wish Subaru would bring over turbocharged Legacys like the GT-B and B4."
Salesman: "In 2003, Subaru will introduce a turbocharged 2.5l Forester."
Mike: "For the North American market?"
Salesman: "Yes. That's subject to change [like all rumors] but that's my current information."
Mike: "Are you sure? I know Subaru has a 2.0l turbocharged motor, like that for the WRX, but I'm not familiar with rumors of a 2.5l turbocharged motor."
Salesman: "That's what I've been told. The Baja will get it next. Later, it will be introduced in other models."
Mike: [closes mouth, brushes dirt off chin]
Woah. Strange.
Graham, you still need to weigh in.
Cheers,
..Mike
..Mike
Bob
Bob
-mike
But I've also heard (read?) somewhere about 2.5T for Forester. I think I read somewhere that 2.0T will be considered too whimpy for the US SUV market... or something of sort.
I've noticed on the subaru.ru site that they have 2.0T and normally-aspirated 2.0L for Foresters. I guess non-turbo 2.0 can be a bit whimpy for a Forester.
Questions for juice:
1) although official Brazilian tour website does not require any vaccinations, tour company gently suggested to get some, because we'll visit Manaus (jungle area). Do you think it's really necessary?
2) Is it true that border guards won't let me in the country until I can show them that I've mastered ssome samba moves? I'm working on my samba right now...
tx
--kate the traveler
-mike
Yes, despite most Americans' concept that Australia is somewhere betwen the West Coast and Hawaii, we are actually about 13-15 hours ahead of you. It's a pity that no-one in the USA can apparently figure out the night and day thing (sorry but one weird phone call too many transferred from the office to my home, have made me jaded. Is there a polite way to explain time zone differences to someone who calls, expecting you to be in the office at 3:00am. It amazes me the number of bizarre conversations you can have with people along the lines of "I will get him to call you in five hours!" Oh, but I will have gone home then!". " No, I can't put you through to him because he is home in bed, asleep!" Sorry, grump concluded!)
Just to be really confusing, I think you folk start seasons on the Solstices and Equinoxes but we start them on the first of the month before them. Hence we start Spring on 1 September, Summer on 1 December and so on. Given that it is now decidedly springlike with today topping 24 C (about 75F) I am feeling quite jolly.
Mind you, Melbourne is famously changeable (sort of SF without so many fogs). The local jokes are "Don't like the weather, wait ten minutes..." and "Only city in the world where you go out each day wearing a swimsuit and an overcoat, carrying snowshoes and an umbrella". It makes for interest, particularly as it is a skyscraper city with fabulous views to the West where most of the weather rolls in.
As to the 2.5l Turbo, I can't find the articles now but Subaru here have been repeatedly quoted as having the 2.5l Turbo in 2003.
Given the turbo Forester was a massive seller here (ask the police or ambulance service about them - they love them) the absence of the turbo from the line-up is seen as a problem for Subaru. hence it has been a question on every reviewer's list. I have even seen what model designation it is supposed to have (possibly XT). I will keep my eyes open next time. Sorry but I presumed that it would automatically surface in the USA. Mind you, it took the USA a long time to get WRX models.
Interesting to note that the Australian Motoring press has been fairly luke-warm on the new Forester seeing it as an advance but not a huge leap forward. More evolution than revolution, I guess.
Cheers
Graham
Also, as to your following quote, the same can be said here, as far as the motoring press is concerned. Everybody likes it, but it is seen as a evolution of the past model, and nothing more.
Bob
<< Interesting to note that the Australian Motoring press has been fairly luke-warm on the new Forester seeing it as an advance but not a huge leap forward. More evolution than revolution, I guess. >>
..Mike
..Mike
BTW, here's their take on the new Baja.
Bob
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/7_01_sub.htm
..Mike
If Subaru can indeed get a 2.5T out soon, it'll dominate, flaws and all.
Very interesting to see even Aussie turbos should get more displacement. Color me surprised. I swore the 2.0l with 217hp would make it here.
911 lotto was wierd. I find it hard to believe it wasn't rigged, but that's OK. Did they show video of the numbers being picked?
Bob: aren't they calling it the TSX? Interestingly, it rated 3 stars, where the old Accord got 4, and the Outback H4 and H6 also got 4 stars.
Kate: some people get malaria pills, but honestly they are almost as bad as the real thing. Talk to your doctor, but I'd just use bug spray with deet.
Manaus is nice but will feel very rustic. Wear comfy clothes and especially shoes. And ask if there are piranhas before diving in any water!
-juice
The sales guy said demand was strong, but the wait list for Odysseys is longer. While we were there, and Ody customer walked in complaining about a bad tranny (still an issue with those I guess). The salesman acted surprised and said "Really, that's strange".
Any how, check it out closely, and drove it, and overall I felt...
Pro:
* comfy front seats
* lots of storage
* great cargo room and flat surface
* torquey engine + smooth tranny shifts
* very nice ride
* commanding view
Con:
* assembly quality was very poor
* felt big, not at all sporty
* 3rd row had no knee room
* 2nd row seats are too low
* tranny a little hesitant to shift down
* massive markup on accessories
The showroom model had a loose cover in the cargo area, the one over the jack. I thought it may be just that one, but on the one we drove had fallen off, and rattled when we put it back. Very poor design. Guess what the sales guy said? Yep, "Really, that's strange".
The windshield wiper on the passenger side of one of them went beyond the window onto the A-pillar. The other was fine, so it must have been mis-assembled.
The latches inside were hard and closed with loud clanks, anything but smooth. They new '03 Accord next to it had ultra-smooth latches, so it was uncharacteristic of Honda.
It drove very nicely and gives people what they really want, so I'm sure it'll sell well. Not my type of ride, nor my wife's. I kind of prefer the Odyssey. In fact it's like driving an Odyssey while sitting on two phone books.
I forget the exact prices, but cross bars were something like $700, and these goofy chrome bumper accents were $900. $120 for pin stripes, and something like $120 for lousy wheel locks! Those things cost 20 bucks! Prices were in the $35k range for the EX-Leather accessorized.
No moonroof, either. Only the MDX gets it. You can get a DVD or Navi, but not both. 2 month wait, he said, 4 month wait for Ody.
I'd wait the extra 2 months.
-juice
As to the size issue, you ought to take out a "traditional" truck-based SUV sometime, it will make you appreciate just how good the handling of the Pilot is. You're just too used to small, nimble Subies...
Bob
Nice write up and interesting point about the poor assmebly quality. Where is the Pilot manufactured?
Ken
It was smaller, but was definitely more fun to drive than the Pilot. Road noise was a bit high, but it was roomy and comfy. Gas mileage was so-so, and it was a little succeptible to cross winds. But it was also a much older, used model, and still had fewer rattles.
Honda gave up on "fun to drive" entirely and made a plush cruiser for suburban moms, nothing wrong with that. Except the rattles.
I think they make in US and Canada, I'm not sure which plant does Pilots and which does Odys.
The new Accord was right next to it, so I checked that out, too, but didn't drive it. Interestingly, assembly quality seemed much better. Latches had a muffled click to close, much smoother. Everything seemed well thought out. Tighter panel gaps, fewer visible welds, etc.
Thumbs down on the tiny tach, way way off to the left side. Hated it. The lit speedo was OK, kind of a cheap Lexus imitation.
Honda sells far more Accords, and supply is almost infinite, so maybe they paid more attention to their volume model.
-juice
-mike
Mercedes was the first to have a huge centered speedo flanked by a smaller tach. They've been set up that way for for years. Honda has too, only this year the speedo seems bigger still.
Bob
At least Subaru makes them both big.
Yeah, Honda's is exaggeratedly big, and it makes the tach look puny. Did their customer feedback tell them the speedo was hard to read?
paisan: you may be onto something, it does seem like they rush the supply to meet strong demand for whatever they put out.
-juice
Bob
-juice
Bob
Sorry, low blow. My bad. I'm geezing a bit myself.
-juice
BOB
LOL, had to hit paisan's sore spot.
-juice
-mike
I thought Isuzu would get the V8 exclusively, but GM didn't even toss them that cookie.
Fitzgerald in Rockville houses Subarus and Isuzus in the same room (further feeding the SIA conspiracy theory), but have not displayed Isuzus in the showroom for months. I wonder if they'll start again.
-juice
Ed
(5 people + camper + safty margine = 4500ish???)
What vehicle do I get? Subaru is out because of the towing and three in back is a bit tight. (sniff).
No Paisan, I don't want a Trooper or Rodeo
Hmmm is the Ascender that bad?
--jay
I bet a Honda Odyssey with a towing package could pull a < 2000lb trailer easy...
-Colin
So you may need 3 rows, or at least a wide-body. Among sport/cutes, the Sante Fe, Vue, Liberty, and Escape have wider-than-Subaru exteriors, but check out interior measurements to see if that translates inside. They can probably tow that load as well.
Or get trailer brakes and smaller booster seats.
-juice
--jay
My tip - go to the local auto show, whenever that is, and sample everything imagineable. See what fits, then go drive those that meet your needs. I'm often caught by surprise, maybe you will be, too.
-juice
-mike
Bob
Do you know what year it was? Describe briefly: dual headlights or quads? Round taillights or oval?
Ed
-juice
-mike
-Dennis
For towing big loads, check the payload of whatever you are buying. The RAV4, for instance, only has a 760 lb payload. It can tow 1500 lbs, but with a 150 tongue weight, you only have 610 lbs left of payload. So you can't fit 3 "paisan sized" (*) adults, for instance.
So look for something with 1000 lbs or more of payload, as well.
-juice
* - inside joke
-mike
They launched their own supposedly in-house "Factory Performance" unit, with a full line of accessories, suspensions, body kits, etc. Right now they sell mostly to Civic owners.
I saw a fully decked out Civic Si coupe with everything in the catalog: suspension, body kit, interior kit, shift knob, 17" wheels, low profile tires, pedals, etc.
Sticker shock, though - $23 grand for a Civic!
Still, they see a pot of gold and already offer more than SPT does. STi can't arrive any sooner, I swear.
-juice
This was the first time for us at the Frederick Fair, and as it turned out, they were having a huge Tractor Pull. All I can say is wow! That's pretty wild! Talk about strange rigs! Some of these things were as loud as a full-blown dragster.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if this event wasn't televised for the SPEED Channel. It was huge in terms of tractors. Everything from custom-built monster pickups to highly modified John Deeres, and everything in between.
Bob
-juice