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Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    which is different from our all-new Amero-Accord, reportedly will be coming Stateside next year as the Acura TS sedan; the sedan counterpart for the RSX.


    Bob


    http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&page=1&reviewid=542

  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    they still don't know how to run elections here!

    - I voted and I can't get up!!!-
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    This is too weird. I test drove a 2003 Baja (see: miksmi "Subaru Baja" Sep 12, 2002 2:00pm). Transcript:

    Mike: "I wish Subaru would bring over turbocharged Legacys like the GT-B and B4."

    Salesman: "In 2003, Subaru will introduce a turbocharged 2.5l Forester."

    Mike: "For the North American market?"

    Salesman: "Yes. That's subject to change [like all rumors] but that's my current information."

    Mike: "Are you sure? I know Subaru has a 2.0l turbocharged motor, like that for the WRX, but I'm not familiar with rumors of a 2.5l turbocharged motor."

    Salesman: "That's what I've been told. The Baja will get it next. Later, it will be introduced in other models."

    Mike: [closes mouth, brushes dirt off chin]

    Woah. Strange.

    Graham, you still need to weigh in.

    Cheers,

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Good to see (read!) Mike Wordsmith back in action... :)

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    probably sound asleep as we are writing these posts. Something about being in Australia...

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Winter nights down under! :)

    -mike
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    Paisan, they have spring coming up, Down Under.

    But I've also heard (read?) somewhere about 2.5T for Forester. I think I read somewhere that 2.0T will be considered too whimpy for the US SUV market... or something of sort.

    I've noticed on the subaru.ru site that they have 2.0T and normally-aspirated 2.0L for Foresters. I guess non-turbo 2.0 can be a bit whimpy for a Forester.
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    well, it looks more and more like I will be going to South America this Oct. Brazilian visa's in the passport (they require this for the US citizens)!

    Questions for juice:
    1) although official Brazilian tour website does not require any vaccinations, tour company gently suggested to get some, because we'll visit Manaus (jungle area). Do you think it's really necessary?

    2) Is it true that border guards won't let me in the country until I can show them that I've mastered ssome samba moves? I'm working on my samba right now...

    tx
    --kate the traveler
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    in Australia now? (going to spring)

    -mike
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Yes, despite most Americans' concept that Australia is somewhere betwen the West Coast and Hawaii, we are actually about 13-15 hours ahead of you. It's a pity that no-one in the USA can apparently figure out the night and day thing (sorry but one weird phone call too many transferred from the office to my home, have made me jaded. Is there a polite way to explain time zone differences to someone who calls, expecting you to be in the office at 3:00am. It amazes me the number of bizarre conversations you can have with people along the lines of "I will get him to call you in five hours!" Oh, but I will have gone home then!". " No, I can't put you through to him because he is home in bed, asleep!" Sorry, grump concluded!)

    Just to be really confusing, I think you folk start seasons on the Solstices and Equinoxes but we start them on the first of the month before them. Hence we start Spring on 1 September, Summer on 1 December and so on. Given that it is now decidedly springlike with today topping 24 C (about 75F) I am feeling quite jolly.

    Mind you, Melbourne is famously changeable (sort of SF without so many fogs). The local jokes are "Don't like the weather, wait ten minutes..." and "Only city in the world where you go out each day wearing a swimsuit and an overcoat, carrying snowshoes and an umbrella". It makes for interest, particularly as it is a skyscraper city with fabulous views to the West where most of the weather rolls in.

    As to the 2.5l Turbo, I can't find the articles now but Subaru here have been repeatedly quoted as having the 2.5l Turbo in 2003.

    Given the turbo Forester was a massive seller here (ask the police or ambulance service about them - they love them) the absence of the turbo from the line-up is seen as a problem for Subaru. hence it has been a question on every reviewer's list. I have even seen what model designation it is supposed to have (possibly XT). I will keep my eyes open next time. Sorry but I presumed that it would automatically surface in the USA. Mind you, it took the USA a long time to get WRX models.

    Interesting to note that the Australian Motoring press has been fairly luke-warm on the new Forester seeing it as an advance but not a huge leap forward. More evolution than revolution, I guess.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What was the price difference between the out-going Forester turbo and the non-turbo Forester? Is it (roughly) the same as that of the Impreza WRX, and non-turbo Imprezas?

    Also, as to your following quote, the same can be said here, as far as the motoring press is concerned. Everybody likes it, but it is seen as a evolution of the past model, and nothing more.

    Bob

    << Interesting to note that the Australian Motoring press has been fairly luke-warm on the new Forester seeing it as an advance but not a huge leap forward. More evolution than revolution, I guess. >>
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Thanks, Graham. Here it is in "print" from Web Wombat ("the original Australian serach engine") Subaru launches 2nd generation Forester:
    For 2003, the Forester no longer has only 2.0-litre variants to choose from, but at the same token the charging Forester GT model, with a re-tuned turbocharged engine, sourced from the Impreza WRX, is no longer an option. Rumour has it that Subaru will release a 2.5-litre turbo GT model in 2004.
    Cheers,

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Like the Oz report on the Forester, I too wish the US-spec model had the self-leveling rear suspension...


    BTW, here's their take on the new Baja.


    Bob


    http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/7_01_sub.htm

  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246

    ..Mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Think of it this way, would you pick a Baja or a Sport Trac? Given you wanted a light duty crew cab you could use day-to-day. Baja ain't perfect but there are no great choices out there in the compacts. The Dakota is too long and guzzles gas. The Nissan is just not very good. The Tacoma is pricey for its size.

    If Subaru can indeed get a 2.5T out soon, it'll dominate, flaws and all.

    Very interesting to see even Aussie turbos should get more displacement. Color me surprised. I swore the 2.0l with 217hp would make it here.

    911 lotto was wierd. I find it hard to believe it wasn't rigged, but that's OK. Did they show video of the numbers being picked?

    Bob: aren't they calling it the TSX? Interestingly, it rated 3 stars, where the old Accord got 4, and the Outback H4 and H6 also got 4 stars.

    Kate: some people get malaria pills, but honestly they are almost as bad as the real thing. Talk to your doctor, but I'd just use bug spray with deet.

    Manaus is nice but will feel very rustic. Wear comfy clothes and especially shoes. And ask if there are piranhas before diving in any water!

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Took yesterday off to take my toddler to school, and had about 2 hours to kill, so I drove a Pilot at Ourisman Honda.

    The sales guy said demand was strong, but the wait list for Odysseys is longer. While we were there, and Ody customer walked in complaining about a bad tranny (still an issue with those I guess). The salesman acted surprised and said "Really, that's strange".

    Any how, check it out closely, and drove it, and overall I felt...

    Pro:
    * comfy front seats
    * lots of storage
    * great cargo room and flat surface
    * torquey engine + smooth tranny shifts
    * very nice ride
    * commanding view

    Con:
    * assembly quality was very poor
    * felt big, not at all sporty
    * 3rd row had no knee room
    * 2nd row seats are too low
    * tranny a little hesitant to shift down
    * massive markup on accessories

    The showroom model had a loose cover in the cargo area, the one over the jack. I thought it may be just that one, but on the one we drove had fallen off, and rattled when we put it back. Very poor design. Guess what the sales guy said? Yep, "Really, that's strange".

    The windshield wiper on the passenger side of one of them went beyond the window onto the A-pillar. The other was fine, so it must have been mis-assembled.

    The latches inside were hard and closed with loud clanks, anything but smooth. They new '03 Accord next to it had ultra-smooth latches, so it was uncharacteristic of Honda.

    It drove very nicely and gives people what they really want, so I'm sure it'll sell well. Not my type of ride, nor my wife's. I kind of prefer the Odyssey. In fact it's like driving an Odyssey while sitting on two phone books.

    I forget the exact prices, but cross bars were something like $700, and these goofy chrome bumper accents were $900. $120 for pin stripes, and something like $120 for lousy wheel locks! Those things cost 20 bucks! Prices were in the $35k range for the EX-Leather accessorized.

    No moonroof, either. Only the MDX gets it. You can get a DVD or Navi, but not both. 2 month wait, he said, 4 month wait for Ody.

    I'd wait the extra 2 months.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the quality. The ones I've seen seem fined, in that respect. I agree with you about the options, and the pricing of them.

    As to the size issue, you ought to take out a "traditional" truck-based SUV sometime, it will make you appreciate just how good the handling of the Pilot is. You're just too used to small, nimble Subies... ;)

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    juice,

    Nice write up and interesting point about the poor assmebly quality. Where is the Pilot manufactured?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The only SUV I've driven for an extended period was an older Rodeo we had for a week in Texas. Even did a road trip to South Padre Island. It was a friend's sister car and we had it for the whole week.

    It was smaller, but was definitely more fun to drive than the Pilot. Road noise was a bit high, but it was roomy and comfy. Gas mileage was so-so, and it was a little succeptible to cross winds. But it was also a much older, used model, and still had fewer rattles.

    Honda gave up on "fun to drive" entirely and made a plush cruiser for suburban moms, nothing wrong with that. Except the rattles.

    I think they make in US and Canada, I'm not sure which plant does Pilots and which does Odys.

    The new Accord was right next to it, so I checked that out, too, but didn't drive it. Interestingly, assembly quality seemed much better. Latches had a muffled click to close, much smoother. Everything seemed well thought out. Tighter panel gaps, fewer visible welds, etc.

    Thumbs down on the tiny tach, way way off to the left side. Hated it. The lit speedo was OK, kind of a cheap Lexus imitation.

    Honda sells far more Accords, and supply is almost infinite, so maybe they paid more attention to their volume model.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    since the suv market is pretty hot, they know they can turnout so-so items and still sell everyone they get instock.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Thumbs down on the tiny tach, way way off to the left side. Hated it. The lit speedo was OK, kind of a cheap Lexus imitation. >>

    Mercedes was the first to have a huge centered speedo flanked by a smaller tach. They've been set up that way for for years. Honda has too, only this year the speedo seems bigger still.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't like that at all. Gimme what Porsche does, what the old RX7s had, a BIG fat tach in the center, with a speedo off somewhere to the side! :-)

    At least Subaru makes them both big.

    Yeah, Honda's is exaggeratedly big, and it makes the tach look puny. Did their customer feedback tell them the speedo was hard to read?

    paisan: you may be onto something, it does seem like they rush the supply to meet strong demand for whatever they put out.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on the Honda and Mercedes don't bother me, as long as the tach is easy to read. For a *street* car it makes sense, but not for a *track* car.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I just wonder if they plan on marketing to more senior folks. Anyone read "Maturity Monthly" spot an ad? ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the age demographics of both Honda and Mercedes is probably higher than that of Subaru. I'm older, and it doesn't bother me. ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Should we type in ALL CAPS so you find it easier to read?

    Sorry, low blow. My bad. I'm geezing a bit myself.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    being a graphic designer, I can tell you for a fact, that ALL CAPS IN LARGE TEXT BLOCKS IS REALLY MUCH HARDER TOO READ! THE ASCENDERS (PARTS OF LOWER CASE LETTERS THAT EXTEND ABOVE THE "X" HEIGHT) AND DESENDERS (PARTS OF LOWER CASE LETTERS THAT EXTEND BELOW THE "BASELINE") IN CAPS AND LOWER CASE TYPE HELP GUIDE THE EYE, AND MAKE WORDS EASIER TO DIGEST AN COMPREHEND.

    BOB
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ascender, isn't that the new Isuzu?

    LOL, had to hit paisan's sore spot.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Nope is ASSender :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Where's that spell check? ;-)

    I thought Isuzu would get the V8 exclusively, but GM didn't even toss them that cookie.

    Fitzgerald in Rockville houses Subarus and Isuzus in the same room (further feeding the SIA conspiracy theory), but have not displayed Isuzus in the showroom for months. I wonder if they'll start again.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    "Ascender" is the vehicle; paisan's spelling is indicative of its future place in the sales rankings. ;-)

    Ed
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Ok, I got 3 kids and a 2000lb camper. All the gear needs to go in the car/truck since its a tent camper and not much room when folded. So I'm thinking about 4500lb+ towing capacity.
    (5 people + camper + safty margine = 4500ish???)

    What vehicle do I get? Subaru is out because of the towing and three in back is a bit tight. (sniff).

    No Paisan, I don't want a Trooper or Rodeo ;)

    Hmmm is the Ascender that bad?

    --jay
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I vote for a new Expedition if you're serious about the 4500lb towing. If your budget isn't that high, it could be done with a supercab fullsize truck (which ain't a whole lot cheaper).

    I bet a Honda Odyssey with a towing package could pull a < 2000lb trailer easy...

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With 3 kids, a big issue is cabin width. It's tight to seat a 3rd person in our Legacy with 2 seats in place, for instance. It may be our child seats are sort of big. Some booster seats are much smaller than ours.

    So you may need 3 rows, or at least a wide-body. Among sport/cutes, the Sante Fe, Vue, Liberty, and Escape have wider-than-Subaru exteriors, but check out interior measurements to see if that translates inside. They can probably tow that load as well.

    Or get trailer brakes and smaller booster seats.

    -juice
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    thanks for the input guys... outside the Expedition, all the others are borderline on the towing. I wish I could wait for a bigger subaru... maybe a 03 4runner?

    --jay
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pilots probably need the tranny and PS cooler that the Ody needs, and just the fact that those are required tell you something about its limits. Maybe a Highlander V6?

    My tip - go to the local auto show, whenever that is, and sample everything imagineable. See what fits, then go drive those that meet your needs. I'm often caught by surprise, maybe you will be, too.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is my next favorite tow vehicle or if you can afford a TLC or Sequoia.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is the '03 Expedition. It's not perfect, but I think it's one of best overall packages around. It offers a superb interior layout (with split-folding 3rd row seats), good ride, very good handling, and excellent towing is a "given."

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Saw a Lark VI last night. It was grey.

    =)
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Though metallic. Stude called it "Silver Mist" but it has a definite brownish cast, a shade lighter than a Tampa Bay Buccaneers football helmet.

    Do you know what year it was? Describe briefly: dual headlights or quads? Round taillights or oval?

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ed: check out this week's Autoweek poll, they ask if designs are truly new or just re-hashes of old ideas. You should right them and tell them how the GM XUV copies Studebaker.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well a lot of you know Doug the guy with the Montero. Well the kid broke a tierod end up in MA 4-wheelin this weekend, and did a ghetto fix on it that yielded his toe-in way off, so he was wearing out his tires and almost spun a few times. So he called me up to come tow him home. I loaded up the trooper and went and rented a flatbed from uhaul. Drove up to Kingston and loaded on the monty. 6600lbs+ behind the Trooper made it home. We needed to stop to check the TP of the trailer 1/2 way home and realized they were horribly low. @ 60mph we got 10.5mpg which is pretty respectable considering the load. Also the upgraded tires and OME springs (2" lift in the rear) helped along with the Rancho 9000 adjustable shocks that I had cranked to "super hard" it was a long night but we recovered the big montero.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Wow, you really came to the aid of a friend in need! :-)

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You mean "Tree Killah" Doug? That big monster truck?

    For towing big loads, check the payload of whatever you are buying. The RAV4, for instance, only has a 760 lb payload. It can tow 1500 lbs, but with a 150 tongue weight, you only have 610 lbs left of payload. So you can't fit 3 "paisan sized" (*) adults, for instance.

    So look for something with 1000 lbs or more of payload, as well.

    -juice

    * - inside joke
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep I was way over the payload I think. about 1600+lbs worth. Yep it was doug with his monster montero.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heard of FP yet? The sales guy at Ourisman said it's Honda's TRD, basically.

    They launched their own supposedly in-house "Factory Performance" unit, with a full line of accessories, suspensions, body kits, etc. Right now they sell mostly to Civic owners.

    I saw a fully decked out Civic Si coupe with everything in the catalog: suspension, body kit, interior kit, shift knob, 17" wheels, low profile tires, pedals, etc.

    Sticker shock, though - $23 grand for a Civic!

    Still, they see a pot of gold and already offer more than SPT does. STi can't arrive any sooner, I swear.

    -juice
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/80s/funstuff/paper/paper.html
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Last night, Deb and decided to visit the Frederick Fair, as we missed the Howard County Fair this year (we were at the beach).

    This was the first time for us at the Frederick Fair, and as it turned out, they were having a huge Tractor Pull. All I can say is wow! That's pretty wild! Talk about strange rigs! Some of these things were as loud as a full-blown dragster.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if this event wasn't televised for the SPEED Channel. It was huge in terms of tractors. Everything from custom-built monster pickups to highly modified John Deeres, and everything in between.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks, but once again, the Forester gets the short end of the stick. They even have the GL, the Brat, the PLEO! Argh!

    -juice
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