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> Anybody driven a new 05 V6 yet? I'm a Honda convert waiting for something American to convince me to trade in my Si. My biggest fear is that the new Mustang , with all it's great looks , will still handle "big".
Yeah, last week. It doesn't handle anything like a Honda -- you may or may not like it. Just cruising along it feels big; really long hood, and it's wide. But the faster you go the smaller it feels. I think this is mostly due to RWD and the 52/48 weight distribution. It just goes where you point it, with moderate body roll and moderate understeer. I don't know how well it would Autocross, but on the street it's a blast. The steering is probably no where near as good as a BMW, but it you're used to FWD you will probably like it.
I was concerned about the tall skinny tires, but they seems to work well, and the machined wheels with spinners look fantastic. The V6 has B.F. Goodrich Traction TAs. I put a set of these on my Accord, and they are really good tires, much better than the Michelin rim protectors that came from the factory. See the reviews on tirerack.com.
I'm hooked on RWD. I can't get excited about spending a lot of money on a BMW or any other RWD car currently on the market (except maybe the Chrysler 300), so I will be trading in my '03 Accord early next spring.
The engine: The V6 auto seems fast enough, but I'm waiting for a stick. The engine makes a fair amount of exhaust noise and LOT of induction noise at full throttle, but it quiets down on the highway. Lots of torque, but not much horsepower, so it feels strong pulling away from a stoplight, but passing on the freeway might not be that good. I didn't have a chance to try it.
I would have to agree that the aftermarket should have something available soon.
In looking at the grille (non-GT), you could probably cut out the grille and mount some fog lamps-I would go with something a bit smaller in diameter than what Ford put on the GT.
Would have been nice if Ford would have used the same rear bumper cover on the V6 that is on the GT, looks so much nicer with the dual exhaust.
Not a practical car, but WOW! what a nice ride!
Was told Ford will only build 1500 of them this year and another 1500 next year.
I read where Ford was doing things to save money, yet they make two different front and rear bumper covers for the same car, as well as 2 different grilles, different seating material and designs.
This can't help cut costs and inventories of said items.
Overall, I love the look of this car. Great drool factor. So my criticisms, while seemingly long, are all fairly picky, minor items. Here goes:
- rear quarter windows need some trim: chrome outline, louvers, something.
- rear quarter-panel ahead of the rear wheels needs something, a false scoop or whatever.
- so does the hood.
- interiors on both cars I saw were black. one had the interior decor, one didn't. Both were awfully cave-like, especially the regular one. This car needs some contrast inside. Some color would help too.
But man, do I love this car. Wish I had a spare $35K Cdn in my pocket...
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The only way I would want it to have any scoops would be if they were actually functional. ie: the Shaker hood scoop on the 03 - 04 Mach 1 Mustangs. Or if the side scoops directed cooling air to the brakes.
Otherwise, leave the fake stuff to the import crowd.
As for the door windows going up and down automatically-heard this is for a better seal, and to aid in closing pressures. A guy I know has had to replace weather stripping twice on his '04due to too much pressure when closing the doors with the windows up.
Now I wait to see the ragtop version in spring to decide.
1. If the GT is meant as a homage to the '60s Mustang, that car had considerable chrome, add-on adornment, and color. The '05 lacks this.
2. There should be more to differentiate the GT from the secretary's base model.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Has anyone priced out the "dealer accessory" polished 5-spoke wheels?
I checked on insurance for a new GT, not bad! Was expecting much higher. Now to decide if I want to part with my '93 LX 5.0 chrome yellow feature car convertible w/40k miles!
Otherwise, it's more proper to compare a GTO to an '04 Cobra. And the GTO does not "put a whoopin" on the Mustang at that level. In fact, it's quite even I believe.
What is a new GTO coming in at, price-wise? Around 30k or so?
The styling is Grand-Am boring, but the performance is certainly there...
Ford really pegged this one. I test drove a 99 V-6 before buying my GT. That test drive lasted half a city block before I pulled a U-turn and returned to the dealership. That car felt sluggish and heavy. This car may weigh just as much, but it "feels" as light as my Honda Accord. Had the previous gen car felt this nimble I probably would not have bought the GT. It's a blast to drive. Let me put it this way, backing this car out of it's parking space was all the driving I needed to alert me that the experience was going to be a good one.
The interior feels much more spacious than my GT. I favor wrap around dashes, so I'm not going ga ga over the layout, but my son and everyone at dinner tonight kept commenting on how cool it looked. Eh, it's OK
The only complaint I can muster is that hanging your elbow out the window is not an option, the sill is too high.
Oh, one other thing. It's much easier to wash, uh...dry, than my 99. Without all the fake scoopery and spoilerage I can run my California Water blade over it much quicker with large sweeping strokes. Waxing should be much easier but I'm not gonna wax a rental to find out.
The rear side windows give better visibility into my blind spots than do those on my GT. I disagree on the need for chrome trim around those. I prefer the clean look
I was surprised at how much space and access is available underhood. You can stick your arm virtualy anywhere around the engine. Shade tree mechanics will rejoice. Also noticed what appears to be a ready made porthole for a "ram air" duct right underneath the air filter enclosure. Perhaps the GT makes use of it or maybe Ford put it there for the aftermarket. For whatever reason it is a pass through that leads to the area under the front bumper.
Would I buy one? Sure, for my wife. As quick as it is, it's still no match in the go department Vs my 99 GT, and it does not make music when you throttle it up. So, when I return this rental if they offer it to me "used", I may very well purchase it. (I rented from a local Ford dealership, not a rental agency like Hertz). I won't buy one "new" though. I gots to test drive a GT first.
Here's a question for anyone out there. Has anyone been able to buy ANY 05 Mustang for MSRP in Southern Cal. If so PLEASE direct me to that dealership. All the new ones I've seen are marked up two to five thousand dollars.
Thanks all.
I have driven the '04 GTO and it isn't bad in the performance department... not bad at all, but nowhere near as good overall compared to the 05 Mustang (the goat is a tad quicker, but much more sloppy compared to the Mustang) However the GTO's biggest downfall is the styling. Simply stated, the styling just plain sucks. Being a big fan of the real GTO's (and an ex owner of one), I think it is an embarrasment to the badge.
One can believe whatever conspiracy theories about Ford throwing in some "ringers" for the press, but history will prove which car will be the classic.
I will be test driving the '05 GTO to obtain a more apples to apples comparison ('05 vs. '05) but between the '04 GTO and '05 Mustang, dollar per dollar the 2005 Mustang GT is the far better car. period.
Here is what I have found for 2005 MSRP Base Pricing for each model:
2005 Chrysler 300-Series 4dr Sdn 300C
MSRP
Base $32,870.00
2005 Ford Mustang 2dr Cpe GT Premium
MSRP
Base $25,705.00
2005 Pontiac GTO 2dr Cpe
MSRP
Base $32,295.00
Anyone else having problems deciding between these vehicles?
I've driven both cars and disagree with your analysis. The outward styling of the GTO needs improvement while the interior of the Mustang I feel is lacking. The GTO will be low sales volume and Mustang high sales volume. You can run with the herd or stand out alone. It's up to the person who makes the purchase and not the ones here who debate.
The good thing is that BOTH give reason to rejoice with fresh drag strip rivalry and occasionally a stop light encounter. I'm for anybody purchasing a V8 RWD performance car of any make. Let's hope the aftermarket keeps up with affordable performance enhancement products.
Disagreement is fine, but my analysis stands.
I mean afterall, considering that I AM amongst the ranks of one who has made the purchase, I will gladly debate the matter.
The GTO does not turn as tight as the new Mustang. I took them both through the exact same track and the GTO wasn't bad, but compared to the new Mustang,... well there is no comparison.
The GTO has the edge in suspension over rougher road and in speed, but I'll gladly spend the extra $ that I saved buying the Mustang and put it into performance parts.
The GTO may perform akin to a muscle car, but it's styling, both in and out is just too darn cheesy in my opinion. The interior would be fine if not for the red or blue backed gauges and if they made the radio smaller than the size of a toaster. The new Mustangs' interior is OK, but not great. I don't really care for the aluminum look that you get in the upgrade package. The mycolor thing is nice, but the only reason I got the interior upgrade package was so that I could get the side airbags.
It's obvious we disagree on which is the finer, next generation muscle car and that is OK. I am just really dissapointed in Pontiac for doing what they did to the GTO. While I loved my '69 GTO, I don't have any feelings but disdain for the new GTO.
Regards
Since I am ALSO among the ranks who has purchased one of these vehicles my opinion is still as valid as yours. Everyone has certain criteria when evaluating. Doesn't make one view right and another wrong.
My original post was on pricing and I'm standing by it. Yes you can get a base Mustang GT for $25,705 MSRP but with options and destination the MSRP price of a 05 Mustang GT can approach $30k. Sorry if you disagree.
"The 05 Mustang GT MSRP with a few options easily reaches $30K after destination charges"
You are loading the Mustang GT (the PREMIUM as well) with ALL....I repeat ALL the options, and it barely reaches $30k. I didn't include the shaker 1000 because it's affect on the performance on the car is nonexistent (adds a little weight with the sub, so it is actually detrimental). I didn't include the auto because most muscle car people prefer the stick, as I do.
So I don't dissagree with those numbers you listed above, but you changed the point of contention from your original, "The 05 Mustang GT MSRP with a few options easily reaches $30K after destination charges", to, hey...I can get the 05 Mustang to $30kif I put every single option under the sky on it.
I didn't know that I would have to itemize them like I did in post 1365. A few is what I listed. It doesn't matter if it has 2 options available. The word "few" still fits the meaning of my statement.
It all boils down to can you get a 05 Mustang to the $30k mark with a "few" options. The answer is YES.
Justify it all you want, but above (post 1365), you listed all but ONE option (the automatic). You are trying to say that is a "few" options.... jeesh,...give me a break.
Not to mention options from dealers, like mine, connected to Roush or Saleen. I'm not even getting close to mentioning ALL the options available for the 05 Mustang when a person comes into a dealership and asks "What options can I get?"
The Hosts will be pleased with all of the red flags I deleted.
BTW - Mustangs already come with keyless entry as a standard feature.
I enjoyed our debate.
which is not a few. Few is any amount that does not represent a significant percentage of the total and certainly cannot exceed 50% of said total. Although there are twelve options listed for a base GT, and ten for the Premium GT, two are no-charge such as CA emmisions and the spoiler delete option. Two others are exclusionary. In other words, you cannot get a Shaker 1000 AND a Shaker 500 in the same car. In reality you only have 9 options for the Base GT and 8 for the Premium. According to post 1365 coolhandluke has used up 78% of available options for the Base GT and 88% for the Premium GT. Additionaly, since the original post refered to a GT and not a Salleen or Roush variant (Salleens are not GT's anyway) I therefore deem the position taken by 05mustanggt to have the greater merit and award him or her victory in this debate.
As far as dealer installed options are concerned, those don't count. Anyone who gets anything "dealer installed" has rocks in there head. Get your rims, lowering kits, body kits, window tint, etc ANYPLACE other than the dealer. If you're lucky you'll only pay twice as much at the dealer, but more likely three, four, five, or more times as much. (former car salesman talking)
Besides, dealer installed options are not "Ford" parts and cannot be included as "official" options and since they were only mentioned at the tail end of the debate, they are deemed not materiel' to the original points of contention.
With that I rule that you can't award squat !
Again the Host will be pleased.
Has it occurred to you luke that there is a REASON you can apparently get better than $6k off the MSRP on an '04 GTO? I've heard of equally impressive savings on '04 Mustang GT's. What's your point?
One can either drive a 'limited edition' GTO or be one of the herd driving a Mustang? There is only one reason the GTO is a 'limited edition': IT ISN'T SELLING! You can spin that all you want but to refer to a slow seller with huge discounts as a 'limited edition' is laughable.
And there is another good reason why so few GTOs are seen on the road: they're invisible. The eye just glides over them as just another cavalier/grand am/jelly bean. Live with it.
The late F-body (Camaro/Firebird, RIP) was an undisputed better performer than that Mustang. Those cars were monsters, and I love 'em for what they were. But GM stopped making them because nobody was buying them. The Mustang outsold them roughly 2-to-1.
This is not to denigrate GM's musclecars, but rather to point out that sheer performance is NOT the only selling point in this class...things like style, every-day driveability, etc. are just as important to the majority of the buying public.
Ford has always understood that with the Mustang, usually making it a great compromise of attributes, while GM keeps thinking that gut-wrenching performance alone will make buyers forgive other automotive sins...
The GTO has a nice interior, but the exterior styling is too Grand-Am in execution...esp. since the other muscle cars (Mustang, 300C) have returned to a more sharp and blocky idiom; the GTO appears behind the times. I can't wait to see the next GTO however, which will be designed here in the USA...I bet it will be a knockout.
The GTO lost in about every if not all performance catagories when it went up against the Cobra in a Car and Driver compairison. Car and Driver tested the 05 and found it to be quicker 0-60 and through the 1/4 mile than the GTO. But yeah the Mustang must have been a ringer and the GTO wasn't broken in, I missed a shift etc...
The new GTO will have 400hp and will probably sticker well into 40k plus range when optioned out. At that price you can buy a vette so they will have to discount them again. Then maybe the GTO will be worth a look.
This is a nice piece from the Ford guys. That's going some for me to say it since I've never been a Ford fan.
Understand that I own an RX8, which I dearly love.
The most obvious advantages my RX8 has over her Mustang is handling, better interior materials, ride, comfort. I also spent just north of $30K for my RX8 all loaded up, including NAV.
For $27K that this Mustang cost (she didn't have the upgraded stereo, but the one that came with it is no slouch), no machined aluminum wheels. But she did get the "dress-up" interior package (whatever Ford calls the metal trim along the width of the dash) and leather interior. It's a mighty fine machine.
I love the sound from the V8. It'll stomp all over my RX8 off the line, the 1/4 and probably top speed (although she wouldn't let me test that last part).
Shifter and clutch are heavier than in my RX8, but all works with a refined feel. Steering is also much better in my RX8, but again, the "Stang's" steering felt nicely weighted and accurate. In general, all the "driving" feel of the car feels heavy in comparison, but still better than something along the lines of a 350Z.
Build quality of the 'Stang is much better than the Z, too (no surprise there).
I don't know how much more you could put on this car over how the one I drove was optioned up to get it to MSRP of $30K but the one I drove didn't want for much more unless you wanted a sunroof ('vert will take care of that) or NAV.
If Ford can keep up with obvious big demand, they've got themselves a winner....particularly at the price point.
Check out this Motor Trend article
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0402_mustang/index3- .html
and the link to the same magazines test on the 04 GTO http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0312_gto/index.html
There is actually an article with complete track stats in the Nov 04 Motor Trend.
Mustang GT 0 to 60 5.1 secs, 1/4 mile 13.6 secs at 99.9 mph
04 Pontiasc GTO 0-60 mph 5.3 sec , 1/4 mile 13.62 @ 104.78
04 Mustang Mach 1 had better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than the 04 GTO.
I love this quote from Car & Driver:
"Which means that the only other pony-car poseur on the market—the costlier, slow-selling 350-horse Pontiac GTO—will be humbled at the drag strip by your lowly little Ford coupe. Be polite about it. Act surprised. But don't apologize."
But that *is* a great quote. :-)
I think the next-gen GTO, with more appropriate styling and the LS2 engine will be the one to get...GM has even said the current one is but a placeholder until they can design one here in the USA. If it comes off as it should, and Chrysler brings out a new Charger, I think we can then talk of the second coming of the musclecar era...
"Here's a question for anyone out there. Has anyone been able to buy ANY 05 Mustang for MSRP in Southern Cal. If so PLEASE direct me to that dealership. All the new ones I've seen are marked up two to five thousand dollars."
I bought one a few weeks ago at $50 UNDER MSRP - at Drew Ford in the San Diego area (I guess it's actually considered La Mesa). I got a price quote from them by going through Edmunds. Feel free to email me at tayllor@mail.com if you want more information.
They don't like the 500 (underpowered, a bad Xerox of the Passat, etc) and in the most recent issue (Car of the Year) didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the Mustang and looked long and hard to find things not to like about the Freestyle. Not enough Ford add revenue???
The say at Car and Driver is "if you read Motor Trend, you end up MT."