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"these concepts from the Ford Living Legends studio are 90 percent accurate to the production models"
link
http://motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_det03/index6.html
I don't know how accurate their data is, but it looks to me like it will be at least a supercharged two seater. Sorry family guys, looks like you need to get a minivan to put your baby seat in. I definitely like the change to the vette-type sports car from Ford.
You shouldn't, because it'd mean the death of the Mustang. The Mustang has never been a sports car. It has never been a 2 seater (Again, barring special low production models). It has always been about affordable performance.
A 2 seater supercharged GT just kisses all that goodbye. I find it *extremely* difficult to believe that Ford would be stupid enough to change the Mustangs focus so drastically after it has been so successful. Last numbers I saw put Mustang sales at 3 to 1 vs both F-Bodies put together. Making the GT in a SC'd 2 seater means they're pulling out of that market after dominating it for years. After being so successful that it forced the F-Body into extinction and GM to completely go back to the drawing board.
Will they make a 2 seater? Wouldn't surprise me, after all, they made one 3 years ago. But they wont make the GT or the V6 or even the regular Cobra a 2 seater.
Will they make a SC'd version? Almost certainly, after all, they're making one right now. But I *sincerely* doubt they'd be stupid enough to make the GT SC'd, as it's going to bump it's price into the 30K range, pricing itself right out of its market.
The whole point of a "pony car" is that it has (at least in theory) more utility than a pure sportscar (if at the expense of performance); this utility draws in a wider customer base.
Take away the rear seats, and you lose potential customers - if only through a substitution effect: all other sportcoupes have rear seats. Remember, most Mustang buyers do not buy the GTs, but rather the base model, which is more likely to be cross-shopped with other available coupes.
Besides, not having rear seats will boost insurance premiums that are already high, into the stratosphere. This will also hurt sales.
Finally recall the original early 1960s Mustang concept car (called the "Mustang II" interestingly): it was a two-seater. This configuration however was scrapped by production time. Same will likely happen now.
The roll hoop shown on the convertible was a feature of '67-'68 Shelby GT350/500s these cars were patterned on (as are the tailights). Isn't the Cobra, with it's Shelbyesque name the modern day equivalent of the Shelby Mustangs?
Look for base Mustangs and GTs to have no roll hoop, smaller tailights (lll?) and smaller wheels. And of course a back seat.
Ford went thru the two-seat/four-seat thing in the 60s and disappointed a lot of sports car freaks when they followed the original two-seat mid-engine concept with the Falcon-based four-seat production car. The groans could be heard from the driver's seat of every Austin-Healey and Triumph in the land.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
All Mustangs are going to have different taillights and smaller wheels. It's already been said by Ford that the taillights aren't production and I don't think ANY Mustang is coming out in the near future with 20 inch wheels.
But those groans were more than drowned out by the roar of praise from the huge numbers who bought the Mustang when it appeared (something like 400,000+ units sold first year). True, the Mustang was not a car that sports car fans would appreciate, but then again it was never meant to be that kind of car. Lee Iacocca took the sportscar concept and turned it into something that the burgeoning American middle class would want to buy. It really was a stroke of genius when you think about it.
I just wish Triumph had the Mustang's longevity...sigh...I love the Spitfires and TR-6s. Were a descendant still available (with non-Lucas electrics of course), I'd have reconsidered deciding on a Mustang.
http://home.mchsi.com/~nkloper/P0003369.JPG
I've loved Mustangs since growing up with the Fox bodies, and to finally be able to have one of my own really makes me happy...besides, I figure give Ford a few years on the new design to work out the major glitches before buying. Of course, maybe I shouldn't wait too long...if the geopolitical situation in the Middle East deteriorates further, before long we could be seeing a new "Mustang II" created to weather the new energy crisis. : (
Yours is a fine-looking machine. It always makes me happy to see Foxes that are really taken care of...there's too many running around that have been abused and driven into the ground by thoughtless owners....I hate that. Yours a 302 or a 6?
If I had one of those, I'd too hold on to it for a long while.
And while the 4.6 is a great engine, I must confess to "engine envy": the sound of the 5.0, both at idle and WOT is superior (at least to my ears) to the 4.6's. I esp. like how the 5.0 sounds when cruising slowly, say through a parking lot. Menacing, but in a controled way.
I say it'll happen. The next Cobra, though based on the Mustang won't have a back seat.
The FordGT will be too expensive to counter the Corvette.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
But it seems to me the biggest argument against the two seater is the Ford Thunderbird. They alreadly have a two seat high priced V-8 built on the LS platform, why would Ford need another?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Not really. I'm sure some people cross shop them but they still have totally different purposes. Someone that wants a Vette or a car like the Vette isn't really going to be swayed by the Cobra, and vice versa.
"Isn't Ford sick of all those sales going to GM?"
I'd imagine they're fairly happy with all the pony car sales that they're getting that GM isn't.
Sure, it'd be nice to have a Ford Vette fighter, but the Mustang isn't it, and removing the rear seat doesn't make it one. The only reason to make a Mustang without a rear seat is if you're going for an all out bare bones production race car, as in a Cobra R, and the Cobra R isn't a Vette fighter either. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense to remove the rear seat, it doesn't weigh that much, and it adds a LOT of utility, plus keeps insurance costs down.
I am also glad they brought the Mach 1 back, although I am not happy with the look of it just yet. The Magnums don't have enough backspacing and the car looks tall from the front. Mechanically, I'm very happy with it. This is the performance level I will be purchasing for my next Mustang, should it still be available.
I would also consider a Boss 302 version with a DOHC 5.0 liter motor and a similar visual treatment as the Mach 1. Mine will be a manual. I can hardly wait to see the 04 Mach 1 since my favorite Mustang of all time is the '70 Mach 1.
As far as a vette fighter goes, I must agree that the Mustang should not be it. The Mustang is now in a segment by it's self and judging by the number I see around so cal, it's selling very well. Updates are great and very necessary, but don't change the market segment.
-The production versions will be close to the GT concept cars and will be unveiled in April 03 the 40th anniversary of the 64-1/2 (Memo to Bill Ford:
my birthday is April 16th and I like red convertibles too).
-The roll hoop won't make it to production, the real cars will be 2+2s as Mustangs have always been.
-They'll start with these versions:
Base with 3.0 DOHC V6 based on the Lincoln LS unit but wo VVT, about 215 hp (more than my '86 EFI 5.0!)
GT with 4.6 V8 (24 valves)about 250-260 hp (my guess not their's, they didn't say).
Mach with 4.6 V8 (32 valves) about 300 hp.
There won't be a Cobra until the 06 year and it won't, they say get a 5.0 V8 but most likely a supercharged 4.6, I'd guess 390-400hp like the show car.
They didn't say about the possibility of a 2-seat Cobra.
J Mays acknowledged that he gets a lot of flack about the retro look but feels that the infusion of Mustang cues will keep the brand alive and strong.
I owned a 5.0 liter/5-speed for a longtime but a felt that it had two major flaws. First it didn't look like a Mustang (it sure sounded like one) and second, the crude platform resulted in a very hard ride, comparable to old British roadsters). The new design appears to fix both those problems and I can't wait to drive it.
I commend Automobile on a strong report.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Second, I haven't heard this mentioned but those of you who hate the current Stang's 4X4 look should be happy with the new model. One of the design goals was to put the wheels close to the wheel wells.
Also, I believe they are thinking the 302 Boss edition may not make it in 2004 or 2005, but instead Ford may make the Mach 1 for another year. That would make sense, the Mach 1 is still not here at our dealers yet. And the Mach 1 is a good thing, they could run that for a while. I don't think anyone would complain
There's talk of new Boss 302s, California Specials
and J Mays says he'd like to see another Bullitt.
If you think about it, there are a lot of possibilities. I'd like to see something with a GT-350 theme.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The whole Ford car lineup needs to be revitalized. It was a perfect chance for Ford to come out with the new Mustang, its best icon, and sprinkle its styling cues throughout its lineup and develop a Ford family look. Nothing JMays said pointed in that direction.
I sincerely doubt Ford would even consider a two-seat mass market Mustang (i.e., base or GT). I could see another R model or Cobra/SVT project with a rear-seat delete (the Cobra R racing models were like that), but the one really strong bit of wisdom that Ford's gotten from both the Thunderbird and the Mustang is that while all the world may _love_ a two-seater, all the world will BUY a four-seater. That's why the '58 Squarebird sold as many cars as the '56 and '57 two-seaters combined, and why the Mustang sold over a million units from introduction through the '66 model year while Chevy sold something in the vicinity of 25,000 Sting Rays in that period. That philosophy has made Ford scads of money over the years, and I can't see 'em disregarding it now.
Perhaps a delete option is the way to go with that.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Ford COULD do that with the Mustang, certainly, move the whole line into Corvette territory with a commensurate increase in price. It'd have to be a pricier product to support much lower volume, and I don't think that'd go over well at all with Mustang fans.
What I'd like to see for the Mustangs would be a return of the "stripper" performance models...someone on another board had the by-gone package codes for them I think. The current models have a lot of stuff I could do without (I really don't need power windows in a coupe) and I like the immediacy of a pure performance Mustang.
Re the "Grande" edition...have a link to a picture of one? This I *have* to see... : )
The appeal of the Mustang has always been similar in some ways (style and gimmicks on top of conventional, if not rustic, mechanicals)...BUT the key difference is that it's always appealed as a car for the masses, whereas part of the traditional Thunderbird 'personal car' schtick was that it was vaguely snobbish. (Mass-market exclusivity!)
For photos of a '69 Mustang Grande, check out this guy's:
http://rain.prohosting.com/tonygill/69mustang.html
The "plushstang" approach seems more than a little silly, but it should be noted that given Ford's "custom-build your car" option approach, you could get most any Mustang powertrain combination in a Grande, and there were at least a couple with 428CJ engines...
Still don't get those that are so against the retro aspect of the new Mustang. If you want a cutting edge modern technology type car, get a 350Z. If you make the Mustangs into 350Z type cars, then they are Mustangs in name only. I think J Mays is right on from what I have seen thus far.
- J
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I've heard various rumors that they are still making slight mods. Does anyone know if this is true?
In my opinion I would like to see more of the retro 68 look put into the design. I dont like how they shortened the front of the car and angled the hood down. The way they snubbed front end of the concept car reminds me of an old 80s Delorian. I would much rather see the front end longer and higher like it was in the old 68 stang. It makes it have that aggressive look which is a signature of the stang in my opinion.
There was a blue sketch of the 2005 mustang floating around that seemed to exemplify this and I am hoping that it is more like what the production version of the car will look like.
IMHO the show cars look much more fluid than the infamous blue sketch. The Mustang was of my shopping list when I saw that sketch but now it's at the top.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
The IRS issue is annoying. I know there are those who don't care if the rear end is vintage ox cart so long as the price tag is low and the horsepower high. I think that to have a live-axle Mustang after Ford has even given the Explorer and Expedition IRS feels cheap and crude. I wouldn't buy a live-axle new Mustang. I'm not looking to build a dragstrip car, and no matter what you do with spring placement, shock damping, and Watts linkages, the live axle has too much unsprung weight and too little articulation to give handling and ride that are competitive with other cars I'd be considering. If I wanted crude and cheerful, I'd get a restored vintage Mustang.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I understand the criticism of opting for a retro design. However, I think there is a difference between "retro" and "classic." A "retro" look is one which attempts to make something dated fashionable again. An example of this is avacado-green kitchen furniture. We all grew up with this furniture. A few years ago, it became cool again. Not surprisingly, it's not cool any more. The brief avacado-retro craze fadead as quickly as it began.
A classic look, on the other hand, is colonial furniture. It never goes out of style. It might not be to your liking (I don't especially care for it) but it's a timeless look that is always in fashion.
A classic look has to be done well. One of those $99.95 8-piece dining room sets made of pressboard and covered with tacky white paint is going to look bad, even though it is based on a timeless design. However, exactly the same design will look stunning if it is done in natural cherry or maple and sealed with clear laquer, not painted.
I think the new Mustang is classic, not retro. Retro would mean bringing back whitewalls and curb feelers. Classic means flowing lines and simple instrument clusters.
One might argue that a classic look does not appeal to younger buyers. However,I don't think this is the case. First, classic American style is very fashionable right now. It's all over movies and television shows made for children. Prediction: you will see A LOT of American muscle cars in the next "Fast and the Furious". One of the main characters will surely drive one- maybe even the protagonist. Then there's Vin Diesel's car in "XXX", the Trans-Am Firebird on the Mountain Dew commercial, etc.
Second, younger people have no objection to a classic look. Blue jeans are still popular, and while the little details, like labels and pocket styles, have changed, the basic look has not. The Gap's clothes haven't changed that much in 20 years, either. In fact, I recently bought essentially the same shirt that I had in high school- a white button-down long sleeve shirt with red pencil stripes. Plenty of kids like classic guitars, like Fender Strats, etc. While retro might turn off younger buyers- they don't remember the avacado-green furniture, so it won't make them feel all nostalgic- classic won't. They may even like it.
Sincerly
Very disapointed
most 20 year olds they can afford to buy and insure a new Mustang.
They're right, and so is Checkme.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93