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Comments
Ken
The manufacturer has been working with the '04 Sienna and its 3rd row seat. They indicated that the third row would have to be permanently placed into the floor; the lift is apparently attached onto the seat. This was also the first time they discussed a solution for the Honda Odyssey. The Honda was still described as a tough installatin.
If the '04 Sienna doesn't work, we will consider the '03 Sienna. The floor is flat without a folding 3rd seat, and the lift fits (barely). I will likely be depressed over the "loss" of the '04, but I will enjoy the '03. The Lexus GX470 may have to be considered again.
I need to investigate a possible cargo van option on the '04. This is apparently what IMS uses for the ramp van conversion.
Thanks!
I haven't noticed anything else coming down the pike in the "luxury" department....
Steve, Host
As far as putting a wheelchair within, altho it had no real interest to me, they had one '04 Van on display with the equipment already installed.
Forget who made it, but the passenger seat slid right out on top of the electric scooter which was retrieved from the van rear. Maybe someone here remembers who the supplier was.
Also, they told me the '03 Production stopped in Nov, and the '04 was in startup mode at their new Indiana plant (I believe).
After test driving the Sienna and Odyssey back to back the previous night we went with the Sienna. The Sienna was simply quieter (considerably less wind and road noise), seats were more comfortable, dash looked better, and stereo system was much better. The back seat on the Ody is a plus, but we can live without it for several thousand dollars less. Sienna is smaller, which is a plus when considering driving and manuevering the vehicle. Considered the '04 Sienna as well, but could not justify paying $5000 more for the upgrades (back seat, motor, etc.)
We went with a LE Sienna with Symphony package, tow, power pass door, side air bags, and running boards. Dealer also agreed to split cost of rear bumper guard (about $37). Paid $23,000 ($2250 below invoice or $5797 below MSRP). Also got the dealer to buy down an interest financing rate with Toyota Motor Corp to 2.9% for 48 months.
After 3 hours of test drive and haggling we came to an agreement, did the paper work and were out the door in another 2 hours or so(I live in Chesapeake, VA). They did charge us $465 in advertising fees which was a regional charge??? We did call another dealer in Richmond and Va Beach (Va Beach dealer also had similar advertising fees) and they could only offer $1000 off invoice plus financing (or additional $1500 off). Bottom line, they couldn't match it or beat it.
x10guy, your friend that got one for $21,888 got a killer deal!...but I did get the financing I wanted too.
Bottom line, I got it for about $23,500 before taxes, title/registration, and processing fees with 2.9% for 48 months.
Very happy customer! Oh, by the way, we love our Sienna!
Could you please send me the Sienna vs. Odyssey spreadsheat.
Thanks
kceastland@hotmail.com
So if history serves any purpose -
Model yr 1 - close to MSRP, given that the H Ody is still in demand at close to MSRP.
yr 2 - between $1000 and $1500 over.
yr 3 - less than $1000 over
yr 4 - closer to invoice
yr 5 - clearance sale at $2000 to $2500 below invoice.
I guess my 99 have to last 5 more years - it should have 130,000 miles by then - putting in the more efficient Pontiac Vibe for typical everyday family moving.
$6000 less than MSRP is a very compelling reason to live with the 03 Sienna, as the 99 is serving me very well.
Road Noise - get Michelin's tires, softer and quieter. 90 mph an don't even notice, until those flashing red lights appear in the mirror.
I have never purchased an extended warranty. Is it necessary for this vehicle (see my previous post #1433). Is the extended warranty price typically negotiable. Thank you for your help.
Also, if you are determined to get one, read the fine print before you pay for it. Bumper to bumper is nice, but what are they warranteeing against? Is it only manufacturer's defects, or does it include wear and tear items (eg if your muffler got a hole, would it be included under the warranty, or would that be excluded as a wear item). If they are only covering manufacturing defects, then I think it is even more worthless.
JMO
I'm sure this post will generate a few angry responses from people who've bought extended warranties and either benefited from them or think they might, but the truth is that extended warranties are nothing but a money maker for the folks who sell them to you. They're just another profit center, like undercoating, fabric protection and everything else you don't need.
I used to be a sales rep (a long time ago) and profited handsomely from selling the damn warranties to little old ladies. I was torn: get a 30% commission on the "warranty," or have my boss glare at me. Needless to say, I eventually got fired.
Need more proof? I don't know if they still do it, but I remember, a few years ago, walking into a toy store--part of a huge chain--that PROMINENTLY offered extended warranties on over 10,000 items in the store. They don't do that unless they make a fortune. Odds are, you'll never use the warranties for the items they cover. I've known a bunch of people who've spent the money on these things and found out, unfortunately, that they didn't quite cover as much as they thought.
As an aside, let me also tell you this: trade-ins are a LOSING game for the buyer. You will NEVER do well in a trade-in. The beauty of this scam is that everybody I've ever talked to is always amazed at how much money a dealership gave them for their car. It's merely deducted from the amount they would've given you off the MSRP. In all fairness to dealers, they can't afford to lose money on trade-ins, but they're presented as a cash-positive thing for buyers. They're not. Trust me.
I can't tell you what to do, obviously, but I AM strongly advising you to forget the extended warranty. At $1,000, it's $1,000 pure profit, less the sales commission. I STRONGLY agree with newcar35.
Cheers.
I do most of my own work and probably saved $1000 to $2000 over the first 5 yrs. Oil, fluids, tune ups, brakes. Rotates are free.
There's also the deductible, sometime per item.
That's PRECISELY what one of my acquaintances had trouble with. He bought an extended warranty, and when something went terribly wrong, the car company wanted his maintenance records. He told them he did his own work. NOT GOOD ENOUGH! they roared, and refused to do the work covered under warranty. That was his reward for saving a gazillion dollars by doing his own maintenance. They want you to go to THEIR shops, have all of THEIR maintenance done (which means you have to argue every time that no, you don't need struts, plugs, belts, or the numerous other nonsense they try to get you to replace every time), pay through the nose, and get your precious maintenance records.
Oy, I better stop before I raise my blood pressure.
Cheers.
Sbelfield, thanks for your post. I can relate big time.
Anyone heard of CE's with VSC? One sales guy I have spoken to said they are a rarity and would have to be special ordered.
Jimmy
means
"SCAM"
If you want, you can wait until March 15 and check out the new '04 to compare. I'm sure you will get a killer deal then on '03, no worse than the deals we're getting now. You might have to drive some distance to find the model and options you want though with limited numbers of '03 left (given the area you are at of course).
I own a 1995 Windstar. This was the FIRST production year of Ford's ATTEMPT at a minivan. I bought it used from a family member in 1998 with 35000 miles on it. Against his better judgement, the initial owner bought an extended warranty. When I bought the vehicle, I transferred the warranty to my name for $40.
Since that time, take a look at what was done...
=January 1999 47000 Transmission Failure - New Transmission - Warranty - $50
=May 1999 52000 Transmission Failure - New Transmission - Warranty - No Charge
=May 1999 52000 Replace Head Gasket (Under Program) - Ford Program - No Charge
=May 1999 52025 Motor Failure - Replace Engine - Warranty - No Charge
=July 1999 53000 Check Engine Light - Replace Oxygen Sensors - Warranty - $50
=October 1999 56000 Transmission Failure - New Transmission - Warranty - No Charge
=January 2000 59600 New Blower Motor and other stuff - Extended Warranty about to expire - Some Warranty - $400
=February 2000 61000 New Front Brakes and Rotors - I Paid - $225
=April 2000 63000 New Inner Tie Rods - I Paid - $300
=March 2001 75000 Engine Failing - Replace Engine Warranty - No Charge
=April 2001 77600 New Outer Tie Rods - I Paid - $300
As you can see, most was warranty covered...
I know, I know... This was just ONE person's experience. Given what happend Ford's FIRST YEAR production model, do you think this ONE person would buy another FIRST YEAR production vehicle without an Extended Warranty? Not after having to make payments on a >25Large purchase! Not on your life!
Let me make one final comment... I do not think that there will be major issues with the Sienna and the FIRST PRODUCTION year engine/transmission. Even if there are, Toyota (and Honda for that matter) work with their customers much better than their American counterparts.
An extended warranty is nothing more than an insurance policy. With todays increasingly complex electronics, motors, transmission, et. al., one repair will likely pay for itself.
The great thing about this - you control the decision whether or not to buy it...
Enjoy Folks!
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
I just bought an '03 LE Symphony. From my research that was the only way to get VSC without moving up to the XLE package(and a couple thousand more $$). To get the VSC (code VD) you end up getting LE w/ Symphony Pckge (SP), Front side impact air bage (BE), Power Passenger Sliding Door (AJ), 50 state emission (FE), and tow prep (TO). There are usually some odds and ends thrown in (ours has the bumper protector). MSRP for this runs mid 28's. Most people seem to be getting this into the 22's or 23's after rebate. We decided that as long as we could get the VSC and side air bags on the '03, then factor in that the smaller size is a plus for us, and the lower cost, spending for the 04 just didn't make sense. Although I will admit, I am kind of getting '04 envy for things like the new seats. Oh well, I can just look at my checking account balance to ease the pain!!
Good luck on your decision,
Steve
I removed my back seats about 6 times since 1999.
Tumbled about 15 times max.
Any idea of the 04's Lease Residuals yet?
I called the local dealer and they will not give me any discounts for ordering the 2004 Sienna. In contrast, I got an offer for $2,000 off MSRP on a 2003 Odyssey.
In my opinion, I think they should have used a chrome grill on the Sienna like the one for the Avalon. Also, the dash display looks a little cheap. Again I think they should have made it look more sedan-like for the dash.
But the bottom line is pricing vs. features.
These are mini-vans, not exactly for showing off.
I think if you are into just the basics, then the Sienna is a winner- CE for about $23,500 compared to $24K Plus for the Odyssey LX, unless again you get a better discount for the Odyssey. If you got $2K off on the Odyssey LX, well then its $22K Plus, which would be a deal.
I'm getting tired of hearing people remind us that THIS IS JUST A MINIVAN! True yes, but stop trying to convince yourselves that the new 04 Sienna isn't worth getting excited, and for some, obsessed over. I would agree, if your personal ego is directly related to the length of your gear shifter, the Sienna probably isn't your thing. For some of us here, it's finally the vehicle we've been waiting for. And if it's JUST A MINIVAN, maybe you can spend your time elsewhere.
So leave my Minivan mentality alone.
Actually, I wanted a Sequoia, but they did not offer the Navigation system and my wife hates SUV.
After owning a Corolla, Camry, Avalon, and then a Lexus LS400, I was initially aiming for the Sienna. The 2003 model did not even offer Navigation system so I was excited that the 2004 model offered it. But finding out that you have to spend about $35-36K for a Sienna with Navigation system, I was disappointed. I was even more disappointed when these local dealers would not offer me any discounts. I guess each of us have certain expectations and standards for everything. I would pay $36K for a Sequoia, but not for a Sienna or any minivan.
My written expressions here are my opinions only so I don't mean to offend anyone.
I was just curious to know if anyone else feels the same about the pricing of the new Sienna. My opinion is that if you want just the strip down model, then the Sienna is a good deal. But then if you want certain things, like Navigation, but not certain things (like DVD RES, 17" Wheels, 10 Speakers) then you just may get frustrated that Toyota doesn't even offer a more basic van with Navigation instead of making you buy everything else just to get navigation.
Apparently, I enjoy reading comments from people like grimloc and bearpamplin. That's why I spend some time here.
I do like to hear more about how everyone really feels about the 2004 Sienna after knowing the prices, discounts or lack of, exterior looks and interior looks.
Use the following as a guide - not hard fact.
Total MSRP $35,315 Base MSRP $28,260
Low (12k/yr) Std (15k/yr)
24 month ------ 17,804
36 month 17,521 16,956
48 month 15,260 14,695
60 month 13,282 12,717
Colors:
056 - Natural White
071 - Arctic Frost Pearl (XLE only)
1D7 - Silver Shadow Pearl
1E3 - Phantom Gray Pearl
3Q3 - Salsa Red Pearl
4Q2 - Desert Sand Mica
6S7 - Aspen Green Pearl
8Q0 - Stratosphere Mica
8R5 - Blue Mirage Metallic
All of the colors except Arctic Frost & Blue Mirage are existing Toyota colors. Most are on the Camry and other models.
Steve
Problem with most base model Toyotas is you don't get much, let alone what you want and end up paying for what you don't want also.
Can I check one out now? or do I have to wait until the 15th?
OT
I think its great that Toyota makes lots of options and packages available. In particular, this 2004 Sienna offers alot of possibility with respect to packages.
A decently equipped LE with dual sliders and VSC/side curtains is about $27,000- a very fair sticker if you ask me. Sure if you want more, you will have to pay more, but loaded to the gills, with AWD, NAV, leather etc, and XLE Limited at 40K is still 5K less than a similarly equipped RX330, which is smaller.
It continues to amaze me that many, many families would choose the RX simply for its status, even when their needs are more closely matched by a minivan.
~alpha
Well, I say let them continue. If everyone wanted a minivan, the demand would be high and thus prices would be even higher. I'm happy to be in the minority and pay less for more!
'03 Sienna Symphony edition here and loving it!
Anyway, I went on Toyota website, and I saw that the AWD models are about $6-7K more than their 2WD counterparts. What gives? Do the AWD models come fully loaded with a bunch of options?
Thanks for the explanations.
The Tercel was terribly underpowered but what did we expect for the amount we paid for it - less even than the Corolla and we still got back $5000 when we traded it in for the Sienna.
The Sienna has been a great bus for the family, although I have always found the rear storage area to be too small - it looks like this was fixed in 2004. It is comfortable in every seat and easy to drive. We bought it for well under MSRP (over 2k less) in Hillside, NJ even though it was a new model. We picked one of the vans that was "on the lot" two days after Xmas and right before the new year - I had the choice between the one we got with cloth and no moonroof and a Maroon one with leather and a moonroof (oohs and ahhs) and picked the lower priced one, but have always felt that we got a great deal and have never regretted it. I am somewhat envious of my sister-in-law's 2001 Sienna with JBL speakers, moonroof, video screen and leather, but never thought it was worth the extra money that they paid, although the engine has always seemed a little stronger and the transmission smoother.
We are ready for the 2004 but I refuse to pay MSRP. I have no problem going to the 6+ dealers in central NJ and saying - this is what I am paying over invoice, and I will buy from the first dealer that gives me that deal minus the KBB value on the trade in. Eventually when the avid customers stop calling and they have a car on the lot they will give me a call - it has always happened that way, and it really works, at least where there is competition.
Anyways - my family spends a lot of time in the Sienna and therefore, it is not "just a minivan" -it is a place where my family spends a lot of time in, and should be comfortable, reliable and safe for that reason alone.
Have fun, both are outstanding vehicles and you can't go wrong with either one.
You said that a "decently equipped LE with dual sliders and VSC" is reasonably priced at $27K. From what I have seen, the 04 LE options packages only has 1 power sliding door.
I thought you had to upgrade to a XLE to get dual power sliders. I know the 03 had dual power sliders for LE, but I didn't see it on the 04 options. Can you point out where you saw the dual power slider option on the LE? Thanks.
Thanks for the info on the residuals-Is that pricing guide that you gave on base or with options mentioned.
thanks again!
Hether
OT