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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • graylsgrayls Member Posts: 7
    I believe the topic in this town hall is "Tundra vs. Silverado 1500", which was created because a tundra owner couldn't tolerate beneficial info being passed from one GM owner to the next without adding his anti-GM comments....

    bumped by toyota?....you have to sell trucks to be a big 3 contender.......
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    started reading this thread. It's being discussed the how, why, and almost impossible to believe the Tundra has attained this status qualifying above all other Toyota makes and models. I believe Toyota corporate would be interested, but probably not advertise this fact:


    http://www.800lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html


    Oh what a feeling!!

  • mpalombompalombo Member Posts: 186
    Tundra Sales for 2000 = 100,445

    Found at http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/toyota_motor/business/toyota-us-sales-2000-by-model.htm


    Silverado Sales for 2000 = 642,119 (does not include 188,907 GMC Sierras)

    http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/general_motors/gmsales2.htm


    Now wouldn't simple math tell you that if both companies had the EXACT same level of quality then you would have roughly 6.5 times more complaints on Silverados alone?


    I could not find a site where I could find a total number of complaints for each vehicle but I did come across this while looking....


    "Herb of Littleton NH writes (4/13/02):

    I changed the oil in my Toyota Tundra after driving 4000 miles since a garage had changed it. The filter gasket from the old filter stuck to the engine block, causing an insufficient seal, allowing the oil to drain out. Twenty miles down the road, the engine skipped and I noticed zero oil pressure on the guage. I immediately stopped, but the motor was already toast.

    My question is, how can Toyota make an aluminum engine without warning lights and buzzers for loss of oil? This is supposed to be Motor Trend's truck of the year and it doesn't warn you of low oil. Even my friend's old Ford Ranger does that."


    That was found at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_tundra.html


    -Mark

  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
    GMC lemon websites:


    1. http://www.gmpistonslap.cjb.net/


    2. http://drive.to/agmlemon


    3. http://www.gmclemon.com/


    4. http://community.ourfriendsonline.com/gmclemontree


    5. http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44039/page024.html


    6. http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/GM-What.htm


    Tundra lemon websites:


    1. http://www.800lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html


    Please note this website was not created by lemon Tundra owners. It is part of California lawyers Kimmel and Silverman's online advertisement campaign to attract customers.


    Draw your own conclusions, gentlemen...

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/t/toyota_toc.htm


    Do a search on the page for Tundra. You will see some pretty interesting items worthy of current owners complaining.

  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
    had maybe 4 or 5 complaints against the Tundra! Hardly in the same league as all those GMC lemon sites with THOUSANDS of complaints...
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Tundra vibrations - register your vibration here!! Over 35 so far!


    From: erkme73

    Emailid:

    Category: Products

    ComplaintResolution: Complaint

    CompanyName:

    TopicName: Tundra vibrations

    CompanyAddress:

    CompanyCity:

    CompanyState:

    CompanyZipcode:

    Country:

    CompanyDivision:

    CompanyDepartment:

    Date: 10/20/00

    Time: 6:50:29 PM


    Comments

    I have collected a database of Tundra owners who have chronic unsolved vibrations. If you have a shaking Tundra, please go to:


    www.dilo.com/tundraform.htm


    Fill in all the fields, and I'll be happy to share my database with you.


    In the meantime, check out this topic:


    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000614.html


    It's an excellent site on the Tundra...

  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
    Since you enjoy readers' stories so much, don't miss hundreds of ones like these from GMC lemon owners:


    I have a 2000 sierra 4x4, 4.8 engine with 3.73, short bed. I traded in a 1989 f-150 short bed 5.0 4x4 with 100,000 miles on it. Needless to say, the ford did not vibrate, the engine did not run rough, The transmission, didn't make noises, the ride was positive not jumpy. If I wanted a truck to do all these things, I would have disconnected a sparkplug wire, blew out the shocks, and loosen a few lug nuts and i would have saved $24,000. I wish I had my 11 year old ford back.

        Richard Leach


    I own a 1999 Silverado 5.3l engine. I have notice since the engine has 5000 miles that the engine knocks. I am a mechanical engineer and have owned 350's previously and have never heard such a noise. The noise sounds like low end noise and after reading your posted article I am convinced that I hear the main bearings knock for 5-10 seconds daily. and I cringe For 2001, the main bearing tolerances of these engines have been tightened for quieter, cold-engine startup. What the hell are these guys doing I pay 25k for a vehicle and now they are changing the tolerance of the bearings. Isn't it common sense that using a tighter tolerance will enhance a components life. What if anything are they saying about the 1999 5300 engines? Is general motors doing anything? Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks

    Brian


    For your reading pleasure, here are the links:

    http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/other_reader1.htm

    http://agmlemon.freeservers.com/other_reader2.htm


    It even comes with pictures!

    image

  • mpalombompalombo Member Posts: 186
    Like I said...SIMPLE MATH....maybe too much for you to comprehend..... 6 to 1... There are 6 times as many Silverados on the road so if they have the EXACT same number of defects per 1000 units sold then the Tundra is the EXACT same quality as the Silverado so maybe you might want to reconsider what you say about the Silverados quality.

    -Mark
  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
    The Ford F series sells more trucks and they still don't generate as many lemon sites, problem threads and poor quality/reliability ratings. How can that be explained?

    Toyota has sold 25 million Corollas, and they're practically bullet-proof. By your rationale, they should be generating more complaints than the GMCs.

    SIMPLE MATH: Problem percentages are independent of the number of trucks sold...maybe too much for you to comprehend.
  • jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
    You are 100% correct. It seems like the same folks are just trying to stir up the pot against Silverados.

    It amazes me how many times we re-hash the same [non-permissible content removed] over and over again. It would be nice to see some comparisons OTHER than lemon sites and counting the amount of TSB's.

    Can we stick to the trucks themselves? Lets talk about horsepower, towing capacity, comfort, etc...

    Just my .02 cents...
  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
  • jaguar0027jaguar0027 Member Posts: 387
  • h0udinih0udini Member Posts: 118
    The Tundra is rated to tow slightly less than the Silverado 4.8, though the Tundra is more powerful. Is the Tundra rated to tow less simply because of its shorter wheel-base?

    I guess either way, it's a compromise. The shorter wheel base isn't ideal for towing, but it is for city driving, which most people are doing 99% of the time anyway.
  • lariat1lariat1 Member Posts: 461
    Most of the time manufactures base the tow rating on the strength of the axles and the bearings that are used on them. The engine size matters a little but normally with a smaller engine weaker axles are used.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    Does anyone else think the interior on the new Tundra is butt ugly? It's plastic from head to toe on the inside. If Toyota wants to sell 200k a year, they better start calling Avis.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    So what does the Chevy Colorado and GMC Sierra's interior made of? Suede?

    The production limit for the new Tundra is at 200K and Toyota will sell every single one of them. If Avis wants it on their fleet then they better be willing to pay over MSRP for it.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    The Silverado looks like it's made of gold when compared to the new Tundra. Toyota's giving $5,000 rebates on the old Tundra to sell 120k a year.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Apparently your gold doesn't look like my gold.

    BTW, we are talking about the new Tundra here right?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    So what does the Chevy Colorado and GMC Sierra's interior made of? Suede?

    Purple velour and rich Corinthian leather (made from real Corinthians!) :P
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    Yes, the new Tundra. The old Tundra has a far better interior then the new Tundra.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Have you been inside the new tunrda yet?

    If not then you probably don't know what the interior looks like. You can't comment on the quality of an interior till you touch it because pictures alone are not enough. Also some interior color schemes look better then others so you need to see other interior colors.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    Nobody is going to by that CrewMax cab version. I'll bet it sells even worse than the Dodge Megacab.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    I'll see it in person at the auto show next Thursday.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Well would you rather have this

    http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/39120/limit/recent

    or this

    http://autos.yahoo.com/chevrolet_tahoe_ltz_4wd-slideshow/?i=izp_dashboard#img

    Now you can see why the "plasticy" remark cane out. All that gray plastic.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Looks like an expanse of dull plastic has been replaced with an expanse of dubious looking plood. Same difference to me.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    Those radio buttons stick out like a sore thumb. Looks more like a spaceship than a pickup truck.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    I don't care for that shifter on the floor. When I'm at work I throw tools & gloves on the center floor where Toyota's shifter is located. I think work trucks are more verstile with an empty space up front rather then a center counsel. This time the Chevy looks more like a Lexus than the Toyota does.
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    Yea i do 2
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I can agree with the shifter thing yes, for people who use the trucks for work. Maybe Toyota is banking on a lot of these rigs not being used for heavy work.

    I agree on those big gawky dashboard controls too.

    I like the new GM trucks...clean quality design. And although I have heard it claimed not to be retro, I see a big resemblance to the 70s and 80s trucks in the grille and light profiles....and as old trucks always have a following, that's not a bad thing.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I'll take the Tundra. Can't stand wheel column shifter and those fake wood.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    I'll give Toyota credit. It's a solid truck, and it's about time. The new Tundra's Beefed up capabilities make it a real player in the full size truck segment.

    I think the Titan is in big trouble. Nissan won't be making trucks very long if Toyota stays committed to the full size market.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Then get the work truck interior-no wood. Looks more manly like the Tundra's. Look under interior photos. No nonsense, no console. Sorry no console shifter.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/photogallery/
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    There were some comments earlier about making excess vehicles and Toyota being able to sell every '07 Tundra, etc. When people make these statements I want to know if they consider the generous incentives Toyota offers at the DEALER level on trucks and SUVs. Last time I checked, manufacturers that have strong demand for vehicles dont discount them by thousands of dollars. Toyota dealers are offering THOUSANDS of dollars of cash on the hood of Tundras, 4runners, Highlanders, Siennas, etc. in my area and I suspect this is true nationwide. To me, this is not differnt from GM relying on red tag sales to drive volume. It seems to be that Toyota is picking up where GM left off in terms of gaining share at any cost.

    As for the Tundra, its a compelling entry in the market but comments have already surfaced about the cheapness of the interior and its clear that it did not leapfrog the Silverado (or 3 year old F150) in interior design or quality. Toyota may have a tough time selling 200k pickups because they only sold 126k of the old one with heavy incentives. Assuming the new truck wont be discounted it will be hard to generate an additional 75k sales even if the new truck is far superior to the old. IN reality, its no so much that its superior, its just much bigger and more powerful. Instead of trying to stake out new territory like the Ridgeline (which flopped0 Toyota decided to attempt to out detroit the Big 3 by going big. Interesting strategy from a company praised as being enviromentally conscious.

    I would also like to get the opinion of the GM detractors on hybrids. GM is fully committed to hybrids while Toyota remains the only foreign company to appear serious about hybrids. Honda is dumping the Accord hybrid and will offer only two models in the future. Nissan only has one and will sell it in 8 states. Hardly a hug commitment to saving fuel if you ask me. Since people generally believe that domestic automakers are committed to guzzling foreign oil while the Japanese love the earth I think the level of commitment to fuel saving technology is interesting.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Currently the 2006 Tundra has $4000 in customer rebates and $500 dealer incentives. Seems reasonable to me and similar to GM.

    The Seqouia is the same but has $2000 dealer incentive. Bit high.

    Trucks are having a hard time due to gas prices and competition from the crossovers. No news there. It effects all makers. Until capacity is brought in line we will see continued price reduction. Toyota may be in trouble with a whole new plant of Tundras. They may not be able to use all the capacity and if so will have to do something like lower price/rebates which they can easily afford to do. Remember they started the planning for the plant and truck well before gas prices spiked a year ago. they are not all knowing.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Wow, you got my interest with that post. Lessee...

    1. Hybrids: Honda is going diesel, which is why they are de-emphasizing hybrids. And yes, they went "performance" instead of "frugality" with the Accord hybrid, which is why it didn't sell well. A miscalculation on their part, but the fact remains that they have the highest average fleet fuel economy of any of the majors, even WITH gas pigs like the Ridgeline.

    On the flip side, I commend GM for their commitment to hybrids, but the actual DELIVERY remains scant at this point. I can't wait to see how much gas the GMT900 hybrids can save vs their gas-only counterparts, but the Vue doesn't save very much (maybe 10% real-world, vs the 4-cylinder gas) and their first effort, the Silverado, was really more of a mobile generator than an actual gas-saving technology.

    2. Tundra's interior is purely a matter for speculation at this point, isn't it? Much the way the interior of the new Malibu is? We have seen pictures and come to conclusions, but except for the lucky few that could get to the Detroit show, no-one has seen or touched it yet. As for sales, Toyota hopes to RAMP UP to 200K sales a year, but is not expecting that right away. They are hoping for a 20% increase over the old model, or about 150K per year, in the first or second years. (CY2007 won't quite be a full year, as full availability won't happen until March).
    You are correct that Toyota's strategy with the new Tundra is interesting for this company: it is the first time they have consciously made the decision to forego fuel economy in favor of size and power - all their market research showed that buyers in this segment have less regard for economy than they do for power and size. Officials of the company have stated as much in interviews.

    3. Rebates: Toyota is currently offering cash rebates on models that are old, and in the case of the Tundra was never fully competitive even when it was new. HL is a 5-year-old model now, due to be replaced in about 4 months. Tundra is six years old, can you believe it? This is not a change in practice at Toyota - they have always done this at the end of the model cycle to clear out the old vehicles and make way for the new ones. The only deviation has been in the size of the rebates, and only in the case of the Tundra. $4000 is a very high rebate for Toyota. Once the Tundra turnover occurs, I am sure we will see similar rebate increases appear on the Sequoia, also a 5-year-old and also due for replacement late this year.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Those radio buttons stick out like a sore thumb. Looks more like a spaceship than a pickup truck."

    Those are the HVAC controls. And they are large so they can be operated with gloves on. Just like the large HVAC controls in the Silverado.

    The biggest difference is that in the Tundra, the controls are a contrasting color (silver against a dark dash) vs. monotone in the Silverado.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I don't care for that shifter on the floor. When I'm at work I throw tools & gloves on the center floor where Toyota's shifter is located. I think work trucks are more verstile with an empty space up front rather then a center counsel. This time the Chevy looks more like a Lexus than the Toyota does."

    Hmmmm, the Chevy LTZ has a center console. The Tundra Limited has a center console.

    The Chevy Silverado work trunk has an open floor and column shifter.....aaaaand, the Tundra SR5 has.....an open floor and column shifter.
  • crimsono2crimsono2 Member Posts: 31
    Dang Rorr, you beat me to it:)

    From another site's write up on the San Antonion plant producing the tundra.

    The Toyota Truck

    31 model configurations
    3 trim levels: DX, SR5, Limited
    3 bed lengths, in: 66.7, 78.7, 97.6
    3 cab configurations: Reg, Double, CrewMax
    2 drivetrain options: 4x2, 4x4
    3 engine options: 4.0L V-6, 4.7L V-8, 5.7L V-8
    2 transmissions: 5-speed automatic; 6-speed automatic
    3 wheelbases, in: 126.8, 145.7, 164.6
    4 interior finishes: Sand Beige, Graphite, Black, Red Rock
    2 dash choices: Stick shift center console, or Column shift worksite dash
    11 exterior colors: Super White, Silver Sky Metallic, Slate Metallic, Black, Radiant Red, Salsa Red Pearl, Desert Sand Mica, Pyrite Mica, Timberland Mica, Blue Streak, Metallic, Nautical Blue Metallic
  • muskyfevermuskyfever Member Posts: 20
    I think the new Tundra is WAY better looking than the ancient looking Chevy. The Interior is FAR better looking in the Tundra than the fake\cheap looking plastic wood in the Chevy. What was Chevy thinking?

    The new Tundra will easily be the Truck of the Year next year. 381Hp and 401ft pounds of torque for the Toyota?

    Toyota destroys the competition in everything it builds. I'd also take a Nissan before the Chevy. Way better looking and tows just as much.

    My Choice for trucks would go like this.

    1. Toyota Tundra
    2. Nissan Titan
    3. Ford F-150
    4. Dodge Ram
    5. Chevy\GM

    At least the Ford and Dodge look decent. The Chevy looks like it could be from 1995 much less 2007. Truck of the year my butt. The interior of the Chevy is a complete joke with all that fake wood. It looks pathetic.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    There were some comments earlier about making excess vehicles and Toyota being able to sell every '07 Tundra, etc. When people make these statements I want to know if they consider the generous incentives Toyota offers at the DEALER level on trucks and SUVs. Last time I checked, manufacturers that have strong demand for vehicles dont discount them by thousands of dollars. Toyota dealers are offering THOUSANDS of dollars of cash on the hood of Tundras, 4runners, Highlanders, Siennas, etc. in my area and I suspect this is true nationwide. To me, this is not differnt from GM relying on red tag sales to drive volume. It seems to be that Toyota is picking up where GM left off in terms of gaining share at any cost.

    Looking at Toyota's operating income, they have incentives and other costs under control. Comparing Toyota to the domestics in this regard is a joke. Domestic incentives outpace Toyota's 3-to-1!

    Dealer cash is just step one in the incentive ladder. The domestics are stuck at Defcon 4!

    Toyota doesn't need to give away vehicles like the domestics do. So don't even bring it up. ;)

    You seem interested in bashing the current Tundra, even though it SURPASSES sales expectations? If the truck was really a problem, it wouldn't sell, regardless of the deal, or it would show just how weak the domestics are here. You can't have it both ways.

    If Toyota can maintain consistent sales for a 5 year old truck, what will the newest, strongest truck on the market do?

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    With Lutz, and now Piech of VW making a very public once over of the Tundra, the word for today is influence!

    Personally, I think it is a bad PR move for the leader of the company to publicly ogle another makers vehicle. Just buy a copy next month, then tear it apart secretly. :confuse:

    DrFill
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I drove all 5 last week. The two best are the Tundra and the Silverado. The others are lacking lets say primarily in performance.

    The Silverado is much more traditional and even upscale in the interior look. The Tundra as with a lot of the new Toyota designs from California ( Calty Design in Newport Beach ) is edgier. Toyota is taking more risks in it's designs.

    The interiors of the two vehicles are intentionally different. The Silverado has small well designed buttons that fit closely together such as you'd find in an upscale sedan. The Tundra has BIG buttons and knobs such as you'd find in an industrial setting. Both designs are intentional. Whether one or the other succeeds is up to the market. In fact both might succeed.

    Alternate viewpoint: This first big work truck from Toyota is designed to fit into a work environment. Being refined inside is not so critical as being capable at work. At a goal of 'only' 200K units it's more important to be solid and basic shooting for the center of the market. At some time down the road, say in 5-10 years when it's fully accepted, then a Lexus look can be added. Too much refinement now might make it appear too 'foo-foo'.

    Butt ugly
    Too Big
    Basic
    Scratched
    Dented
    Dirty

    Sounds like a truck to me.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I would also like to get the opinion of the GM detractors on hybrids. GM is fully committed to hybrids while Toyota remains the only foreign company to appear serious about hybrids. Honda is dumping the Accord hybrid and will offer only two models in the future. Nissan only has one and will sell it in 8 states. Hardly a hug commitment to saving fuel if you ask me. Since people generally believe that domestic automakers are committed to guzzling foreign oil while the Japanese love the earth I think the level of commitment to fuel saving technology is interesting.

    I am in no way a GM detractor. I am critical of bad decisions that result in bad policies or bad vehicles. I think GM has jumped right up behind Toyota in the hybrid vehicle race..... providing ... providing the new 2-mode vehicles do what they say they can and that the vehicles remain well made in 3-7 years.

    Ford is ailing and has very little money to do anything dramatic except survive for the next two years. R&D money for new technologies is scarce I believe.

    Chrysler/Dodge and unfortunately Jeep I see as being on a death watch. Money is scarcer yet and the parent company is going in the diesel direction.

    Honda is the only other real hybrid player and it's split between small hybrid vehicles and diesel midsized vehicles.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota and GM, with their established relationship, are coordinating their efforts in order to promote hybrids in NA.
  • iqbaldhillon2iqbaldhillon2 Member Posts: 116
    Good heres my top 5

    Toyota Tundra Motor Trends Truck of the year 2008
    Ford F150
    Dodge Ram 1500
    Chevy Silverado
    Nissan Titan
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Here's my top 11

    GMC Sierra Denali
    Cadillac Escalade EXT
    Chevy Silverado
    Toyota Tundra
    Hummer H2 SUT
    Chevy Avalanche
    Nissan Titan
    Lincoln Mark LT
    Ford F-150
    Dodge Ram 1500
    Honda Ridgeline

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    It was in a very popular song........

    This is Our Country, This is Our Truck ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGvVs5oSVRk

    :shades:

    Rocky
  • ahoronahoron Member Posts: 30
    That song sucks. Why do you need a crappy song to sell trucks? Toyota will be number one in the full size truck in a few years. They did it with the cars. The quality is the reason. Toyota will likely join the heavy duty segment in time and take it over as well. Only time will tell Just my opinion, don't get too upset please!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I won't get upset. The Silverado, won't have to worry too much after the hype wears off. Toyota, is limited to 200,000 units so they won't budge on sticker prices. I know one guy at work that has a 07' Tundra on order but is second guessing his decision once his friend rolled in the parking lot with a 07' GMC Sierra Z-71 LTZ. I was like Cody, I told you the new GM trucks are "that cool" ;) I'm trying to convince him to get a new Sierra Denali ;)

    Rocky
  • dagolferdagolfer Member Posts: 8
    You think Toyota will take over full size trucks in a few years? Do you remember the T-100?
This discussion has been closed.

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