Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Volume is all on the side of Toyota.
But as I noted above the pricing is GM's marketing dilema. The vehicle is less than 9 month's old and already they must offer incentives to get buyers into them. The volume that they must maintain at the plant level is overbearing and then the Tundra comes out with a bigger more capable vehicle with more features and a lower price!!!
It's like they've been blindsided.
You got a good deal no doubt and I'm certain you will enjoy your ride. But just consider this tiny niggling detail.
You got a great deal on yours this month at $5000+ off sticker. The early buyers last year who jumped on the early T900's are feeling a little PO'd because they didn't wait and their vehicles now are only 6 months older than yours but their value is deteriorating like an ice castle in a desert.
What if GM still is having difficulties to fill the plants in the not to distant future - like June - and they cave into Ford and Dodge giveaways with $5000 rebates in addition to the $4000 dealer discount. Now your deal looks kinda punky to those Johnny-come-latelys. Given GM's ( and Ford and Chrysler ) recent past history this is a very likely scenario. So now your Sierra at ~$37K is really only worth $34K because that's what any Johnny-come-lately can get it for brand new. Tough position to be in.
We'll see about your speculation on GM's sales of these new trucks.
And since when ia a good deal a negative? I got just as much truck (more IMO) than the Tundra for LESS money.
yet you say the Toyota's are lower priced? HUH?
BTW, I got all of those safety features you bragged about Tundra having in that price. Other than DVD and NAV, there isn't one feature the Tundra offers that mine doesn't have. Plus, mine has a Rear Locker...oh wait, I stand corrected, mine will only do 15-point-something in the 1/4 mile....shucks.
First off, they are not called "Heritage", they are called "Classics". And do you actually think after researching this for over 6 months that I don't know the difference? Gimme a break!!! It was a NEW BODY STYLE!!!!
I don't need to convince anybody on this forum of anything because I've asked more than once if any of you even drive a full size truck and I get no response. That is why you don't see the value of a strong frame in a truck.
You don't bring out a new transmission a go from 0 to 1,000,000 in one year, which is what GM would have to do to equip all GTM900's (Pickups, SUV's, Avalanche ect). Not even Toyota can ramp up that quickly.
FYI, I've been driving a full size truck since 1990. And it's nice to see a post on here from someone with some common sense. Thanks.
You just illustrated your ignorance dude. Nice one!!!
You don't bring out a new transmission a go from 0 to 1,000,000 in one year, which is what GM would have to do to equip all GTM900's (Pickups, SUV's, Avalanche ect). Not even Toyota can ramp up that quickly.
Well said, my point I tried to make several times. Maybe....just MAYBE it will sink in this time?
a 4x4 DC limited weighs in 5800+ pounds a sierra 4x4 6.0 ext cab weighs 5400+ the tundra weighs in 330-400+ pounds more then the 6.0 ext cab sierra and still out accelerates. Tundra carries one heavy [non-permissible content removed] frame.
Which BTW is weaker and inferior to the Fully Boxed GM frame. But so what, the Toy is 0.7 quicker in the 1/4 mile and we all use that feature daily, right?
Is the ONLY criteria for frame strength whether the frame is boxed or not?
I suppose material thickness has no bearing? Grade of steel? Ratio of height to width of the C-section vs. height/width of the boxed section? Number/size of cross members? Type of welds? Strength in which direction? Torsion? Bending? WHAT?
Your ONLY claim is that the GM has a fully boxed section (btw, the Toyota frame is also fully boxed in some sections, an open C-section in others). Yet, based STRICTLY on that criteria you claim the GM has a 'stronger' frame?
Kinda simplistic, don't you think? As a mechanical engineer, you SHOULD know better......
The toyota crew implied I was a liar or trippin'
on GM koolaid because they couldn't find the blurb!
Yet again I figured such replies because of GMs
favorable outcome !
difference in most models...........
And yes I know toyota has side bags and trailer platform std.................
tundra base std.cab sb. 4x4 4.7 $26,480
silv. base std.cab sb. 4x4 4.8 $20,960
t x-cab sb. 4x4 4.7 &29,900
sil. x-cab sb. 4x4 4.8 $29,060
but then figure in toyotas FAMOUS SET fee.....
You know the GM is gonna be thousands off sticker
where the tundra is gonna be pushing MSRP.......
But if one is the truck YOU LIKE its no matter
to anyone but YOU !!!!!!!!!!
As for frame strength well thats not the only thing you have to worry about in a accident. The body also needs to be well built to do well in a accident. Judging by the old gen tundra which are very safe. They didnt have a fully boxed frame and did best in High way offset crash tests when they came out. The higher tow rated f150 silverado and dodge ram got worst ratings. But that was 7 years ago. Both the Silverado/sierras & F150s cab collapsed at a 40mph+ offset crash test. ever since then the big 3 improved alot. Kinda makes you think why they didnt decide to improve on this after so many years of building trucks but yeah that was 7 years ago
time will tell. I'm guessing both of the gm twins and tundra will do very well.
out GM frame.
There are more close up pics of this vehicle
It seems RUST ate the frame away !
I looked at the picture at the chevy site- Chevy's air bags do
not protect your hip and and torsoe like Toyota side seat airbags do, please be careful and don't get T-boned.
Not much you can do about it if you saw some one coming with that 4sec delay!!!!
I will stand by this because until 2004 they never existed and until last Sept GM never had one. Suddenly they are the panacea??
If they were so good and everyone knew how good they were for so long why didn't they put them in the last generation or back in 1980? or back in 1960?
What suddenly changed last year that GM engineers suddenly woke up after 50 years and all this experience and said 'Eureka...fully boxed frames are the solution'
More likely this is what happened. Marketing came to Engineering and said 'Ford is making fun of us because they have a f-b-f and we don't. Put one in the T900's.'
You still have not given me one single measurable benefit to an f-b-f. None. Not one. Zero.
As you've seen on Ts there is a strategy present when Toyota sees that GM/F/DC all price their Regular Cabs in the low $20K range and they set the Tundra at $26K. [ The Reg Cab is not the main interest so we are setting the price artificially high. you might want to look at a GM/F/DC ]
But the DC vs EC pricing has the Tundra $2000 to $5000 lower than the detroiters' [ This is our main interest so this is where our pricing will be well below the others - with more features ]
Unfortunately you live in SET and that's a different world. You're not locked into it though. I live there too and have never bought a vehicle from them.
You know the GM is gonna be thousands off sticker
where the tundra is gonna be pushing MSRP.......
ooooo I'm sure GM is ecstatic about this. 'This is just great Toyota jumps into this market in the center sets their pricing below ours with more features and now we, GM, the biggest vehicle maker in the world snd soon to be the biggest truck seller in the US, now have to undercut them just to win sales. How is this fair? They make $2000 to $5000 more on every single truck they sell than we do. Where's the loyalty?'
Even if you added in the price for side bags and
trailer pkg...............
Then you step into reality and get a OTD price
and we are talking THOUSANDS cheaper !
But for me its a non issue.........
The truck I need toyota don't make !
And none of the "someday" posts.........toyota tried
and failed with the t-100 flop. The 1st try with
the tundra didn't go over well...........
(7/8 size bed, no factory trailer hitch, low payload
and tow ratings etc...)
And I assume the comments on other truck sites were
true about toyota holding back the 07 tundra till
after the new 07 GMT 900 1/2s came out so that
toyota could "tweek" the numbers so the tundra could
be "top dog" among 1/2 tons!
I can only wait and see the sales figures at the end
of the year.
I suppose IF they sell more than 125k units.........
The sales figures over at aicautosite.com on the
titan and ridgeline are slipping badly.
I can see those 2 discontinued soon............
Then for sure, if they'd done this with the what-the-heck-were-they-thinkin T100 and pseudo-truck pre '07 Tundra, then they'd know how to build a truck by now.
There is no substitute for building a truck frame that isn't fully boxed. "Composite" or whatever, that's an easy way to get around it, as GM did with the pre '07 GMT900.
And as some have mentioned before, the average consumer of both of these trucks will not be towing in excess of 10k pounds, that is what the HD's do comfortably. Honda says the Ridgeline is good for 5k, will it do it comfortably tho?
And to be clear, I'm not here to bang the Toyota up. It's a very well executed design that is worthy of mention. But it is not best in class as many mags, journalist, and other pubs have conceded to. To claim that the Silverado and Sierra is not at the top of the heap is really showing that some us shouldn't participate here at all.
I like that Toyota wasn't shy about putting 381hp in the Tundra right off of the bat. The 6-speed shifts quite well for a truck, altho when loaded, it hunts unmercifully. Exterior appearance is a like it or love it, same as the Rams. But the interior disappoints, particularly the hard plastics and uneven panel gaps that used to be a Toyota no-no just a short time ago, even in the big trucks.
But I must say, 6.2 secs to 60 is no easy feat for any pickup, and the Toyota shines very well in that regard. But the 6.2 Sierra is faster still and has way better ride and body control.
These both are very deserving pickups. In the end of it all, it just comes down to what the buyer believes in. Some like the legendary Toyota quality(or lackthereof, you can't become that big and not let quality slip) and some wouldn't be caught dead in anything other than a Bowtie, the truck that has held it's own for 7 decades....
Even if you added in the price for side bags and
trailer pkg...............
Sorry that's not correct unless you're looking at the WT vs the SR5.
The correct comparo is the 1LT vs the SR5 trims and it looks like this:
DC/EC Std bed, 4WD, 4.7L / 4.8L, SR5 / 1LT
Tundra Base Pr w/Frt : $29,900
Silverado Bae w/ Frt : $29,160
But to the Silverado you have to add the following
Tailgate Pckg : $95
Safety Pckg ..: $715
Stabilitrak ..: $425
Towing Pckg ..: $675
Total Adds ...: $1910
Even the small V8's end up more expensive ( meaning needing rebates ) to be competitive. It's obvious that this is where Toyota wants to pick a fight. 60-70% of the production is going to be right in these configurations. V8 Double Cabs in 2WD and 4WD.
This is getting silly because each new viewer suddenly pops up with the same statement but no one not one single person can show one measurable advantage of the f-b-f. Dodge has it and the Ram has almost the worst payload capability of all 6 in the pack. Only the Titan - also with an f-b-f has less capability. The f-b-f didn't help either one there.
To claim that the Silverado and Sierra is not at the top of the heap is really showing that some us shouldn't participate here at all.
Well Pop Mech thinks the GM is not tops ( 2nd ), the Titan is tops.
Trailer Boats thinks the GM is not tops ( 2nd ), the Tundra is tops.
Edmunds thinks the GM is not tops ( 2nd ), the Tundra is tops.
C&D does think the GM is tops but somehow the Tundra leads in most measurable performance categories.
It's simply a horse race. And as you and most here have said it's at least 4 good choices for the market.
Here is the link: http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/features/
Go to the Engine/Chassis tab and see for yourself.
As far as pricing goes, the Tundras in my area (ATL) have been equal to or above the others with similar equipment. I can only say for the DoubleCab as there are no CrewMax trucks in Atlanta yet. On another note, the two that I have seen on lots were loaded with options and sold before they hit the asphalt.
Speaking of boxed frames, is anyone old enough to recall back in the pre-war (a lot of people were busy doing other things once the war started) '60s welding plate onto the frame rails of '32 Fords to stiffen them?
Are you saying the HD Silvys and 1/2 tons have the exact same frames? Than why don't they have the same payloads/towing capacities?
Hemi
Another intelligent post. I guess this website has no clue either, as it chose the Tundra as the superior truck. PM as well. Why not just indict whoever disagrees with you as sub-human, and be done with it?
Comparing these two can come down to priorities, at least we seem to agree that they are the top 2.
Fully-boxed frames don't seem to help Ram or Titan much. The Ram can't move much, and the Titan's frame was picked on by C&D.
This frame discussion is getting tired. It would appear there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Toyota seems ready to bet their impressive name on this truck doing some very impressive things. I trust them.
Bottom line: The Toyota will make the 6.2 break a sweat, just to keep up, and it has enough style to keep me interested. So if I were buying, it would have the clear advantage. Not to take anything away from the GM. Seems like a fine truck. But it is significantly slower, fewer gears, no Mega Cab, no 6.0 in RC, and little style outside.
If I want a pleasant ride and a nice interior, I'd get a Camry. I want the best truck. I believe it's name is Tundra. The 4 tests I've seen haven't swayed that impression. Everyone who drives the Tundra gets impressed. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
Seems like Toyota made this truck to appeal to the HD truck crowd, not the personal-use crowd. Their acceptance will filter down, so I hear. Seems tough enough to me. I wouldn't expect the competition to throw too many stones at it.
Doubt GM or Ford will make a negative campaign against the Tundra's abilities, like Ford has done in the past.
DrFill
It's also on the GMC website in the same way.
But....
In the Chevy 'Build/Price' Module you cannot spec out a 6.0L VortexMax with the Max Trailering Package. It's not possible.
But you can spec and price it on the GMC 'Build/Price' module.
This leads me to believe that GM Marketing has chosen to make the Silverado the basic working man's truck with average capabilities, while the Sierra is the upscale version with all the top capabilities.
Well, DrFill, there are many other variables involved: HP, transmision, suspension, wheels/tires, oil and tranny coolers, wheelbase length, drive train (4X4 vs. RWD), etc.
Frame is a frame is a frame. Now this is educational!
Good job! I just needed it explained to me.
DrFill
Now THAT is a valid point still to be proven.
As to the other point of GM suddenly changing their 50 year old tradition and going to a f-b-f last Sept I ask again why didn't they do it back in 1980? Engineers surely knew back then that fully boxed would be stiffer. Why suddenly did they switch this year?
I don't think this was an engineering Eureka moment. First Ford started it in 2004 so Gm had to wait until the new T900's came out. Ford's been able to beat this drum now for 3 years and frankly I don't think GM wanted to get into a beauty contest with Ford ( the leader at that time ) over the merits of the two types of frames. So GM followed. Case closed. Except suddenly Ford goes into a tailspin and the F150's are shown to be 1990-era trucks with huge massive frames that are becoming lot anchors at dealerships.
But why did Ford go to the f-b-f? This is why...F150 IIHS crash test
Note how the frame collapsed at 40 mph. This was right at the time of the Explorer fiasco too. The IIHS laughed at the F150 and recommeded that no one buy one until Ford made them stronger. In the face of the Exlporer msss they couldn't afford to have the NO 1 Selling Vehicle in the US being a safety catastrophe too.
'Fix it and make it a tank. Then sell the hell out of it's strength.'
Then Toyota has to go throw water on all the festivities. "Look the Emperor has no clothes.'
'While the GMT-800 shared its frame with both the truck and SUV variants, engineers on the 900 set out to devise a unique frame for the pickups, one that is more robust and refined. The move wasn’t without some controversy and challenge, as the decision to devise a separate frame wasn’t approved until June 2004. There was an enormous amount of study of the investment needed, not to mention the fact that engineers were ordered to make the changes without adding any mass to the vehicle. The rear section of the truck frame—measuring 42 mm higher than the on the GMT-800—features a fully boxed construction, which improves torsional stiffness by 234% and vertical bending stiffness by 64%.'
And here are all the awards the Silverado had won so far:
2007 Car and Driver 5Best Trucks Award
Here’s just a little of what the March 2007 edition of Car and Driver had to say:
"Put it all together, and pickups don't get any better than the Silverado in 2007." "The small block V8, now in its second half-century of delivering usable power, provides a strong combination of performance, fuel economy, and refinement."
2007 North American Truck of the Year
Here's just a little of what the panel had to say:
"Chevrolet Silverado delivers significant leaps forward in interior design, craftsmanship and materials quality; ride and handling; NVH attenuation; and powertrain efficiency...In every Silverado I tested, I was knocked out by the classiness and high assembly quality of this truck’s interior." Lindsay Brooke
Automotive Engineering International "Chevrolet Silverado - The best full-size truck on the market..." Michelle Krebs
Freelance "Chevrolet Silverado has spared no effort in creating category standards for interior decor and exterior fit and finish. That this huge truck offers such a quality experience deserves high praise." Matthew Nauman
San Jose Mercury News
Kelley Blue Book"s kbb.com "2007 Best Redesigned Vehicle"
Here's just a little of what kbb.com had to say:
"The Silverado impresses immediately with clean, contemporary exterior styling and two equally smart-looking passenger cabin options" "Where the 2007 Silverado solidifies its case for Best Redesigned Vehicle, however, is on the road and the trail. Notably improved steering, braking, ride comfort, handling and power delivery combine in a vehicle that’s infinitely more satisfying in town and on the highway. Combined with the segment’s highest available (Crew Cab) towing capacity and...best available fuel economy, we think Chevy’s newest pickup is poised to make quite an impact in this era of tougher and more luxurious trucks."
2007 Truckin' Magazine's Truck of the Year
Here's just a little of what Truckin' had to say:
"We might be making a relative judgment here. But in our opinion, the Silverado stands at the top of the heap." "...Silverado offers the widest range of capabilities on the freshest platform that exhibits the best-looking design for reasonable prices."
Road & Travel Magazine's 2007 International Car of the Year Awards - Truck of the Year
Here's just a little of what Road & Travel had to say:
"...RTM editors made an obvious choice by announcing Chevrolet's full-size, next generation Silverado as winner. There's no confusing this pure pickup with anything of another genre. Looks alone — with hunky frame, broad chrome face and wideset, double layer headlamps plus pleasantly cushy interior — would be enough to set it above the pack." "When everything new is combined, what's the result? A well thought out, redesigned Silverado, with shoulders broad enough to accommodate its mile-wide smile. Now that's domination."
Road & Travel Magazine's 2007 International Car of the Year Awards - Pickup Truck of the Year - Most Athletic
Here's just a little of what Road & Travel had to say:
"...Silverado Z71... It’s the model designed for true wilderness driving with special suspension requirements."
2007 Detroit Free Press Truck of the Year
Here's just a little of what the Detroit Free Press had to say:
"General Motors has been promising the world for years. This year, it delivered." "Reasonably priced and offering useful and advanced technology, comfort, value and fuel economy..."
Popular Mechanics Automotive Excellence Awards - Workhorse
Here's just a little of what Popular Mechanics had to say:
"When you're behind the wheel of a real pickup like one of the GMs, it's easy to think that you can haul just about anything. Too bad one of these big boys won't fit in my garage." "...the Chevy Silverado (is) all new from (its) fully boxed frame up. The light-duty model offer a long menu of engine choices, including a 4.3-liter V6 and a 6.0-liter V8 with active fuel management for improved economy."
It is definitely stronger and I'm certain that a lot of engineering went into it. But note the highlighted text. it goes exactly to what I was proposing...'..that engineers were ordered to make the changes without adding mass to the vehicle..' Nicely done by GM engineers. Who ordered them and why the controversy?
It sounds like a normal Marketing/engineering/accounting clash.
M: We gotta have this f-b-f because the F150 has it and we'll look weak in comparison.
E: We can do anything but it's going to add weight, add cost, make fuel economy go down and reduce payloads.
A: You cannot add cost,
Management: You cannot reduce fuel economy ( CAFE ).
M: No Way, we can't go lower than the F150 in Fuel Economy.
Management to E: Solve the problem.
Nice accolades on the Silverado.
He replied: "We bought those new so you could do a comparison test here. Which one you want to drive first?"
Now that takes BRASS!!!