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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Only time will tell I guess. Regarding the T-100- good point. Toyota is NOW taking the full size truck market seriously as evidenced by the new Tundra.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Toyota generally does things at their own speed and often takes baby steps. If the view is 20-30 years out then what occurs in this particular year or next is not all that important as long as there is movement toward the final goal.

    From the Corona to the Camry as No 1 was at least 30 years.
    From the Toyota pickup to the Tacoma is nearing 25 years.
    From the T100 in 1993 to the Gen 4 Tundra in 2117 would only be 25 years.

    All in good time.
  • hpia4v2hpia4v2 Member Posts: 62
    Once GM/Ford gets rid their excess baggage in the form of medical/pension on those retired auto workers I can't imagine Toyota will have the upper hands anymore.

    Let's see...
    Ohh... all the works (Toyota/GM/Ford/Honda) are done by non-union workers in the continent of USA!

    Right now I am looking to get a real1/2 ton, I like Chevy Silverado for styling/price proven 4-speed tranmission and Toyota for the 6-speed + reclining rear seats. But the hold out for me on Silverado is the AFM 6.0L engine, not sure if it'll last 100000 miles without any problem on the valve lifters. At the end I just need to make sure the truck I am buying will fit my needs, I can careless who makes it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The AFM from SOTP reports and from Edmunds review last week seems to offer little or nothing in real world fuel economy. A figure I've heard is about 5% improvement at best. Edmunds seems to find that it's Long Term Silvy is very poor overal though.

    I believe that Honda's findings on the Accord Hybrid and Odyssey are also modest at best in terms of fuel economy.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    It amuses me to no end how people talk about the interiors of these trucks. It's irrelavent whether you want the stodgy interior of the Chevy or the more progressive interior of the Tundra (though, I'm not a fan of silver plastic).

    If your buying a vehicle in this category, your looking for capability and it boils down to powertrain. When it comes to powertrain, the Chevy is a distant second place. With a 6.0 liter engine that has a 4 second lag (Edmunds) to make its maximum horse power which still falls significantly short of the Toyota 5.7 liter, it really is no contest. On top of that the Chevy has a 4 speed transmission with dead spots in the power band (Edmunds). The 6 speed tranny on the Tundra will pull that monster to 60 mph in 6.3 seconds. This 0-60 time speaks directly to how it will handle a load under tow as opposed to the "sleepy" (Edmunds)powertrain in the Chevy.

    Chevy rushed its truck to market to take MTOTY. It brought a knife to a gunfight, and it's apparent they were outgunned. The tranny is critical when delivering the power of the engine to the wheels. How could GM even consider bringing a 4 speed to market when they knew Toyota had a 6 speed coming? Once again the domestics are asleep at the wheel thinking "Don't worry, the japanese can't compete with us in this segment. They are wrong, very wrong.

    Real truckers are always curious about the biggest, baddest truck out there. Even if they are loyal to domestics, most of them will be curious to drive the Tundra. The new Tundra is to big for my needs and probably to big for many current Tundra owners, but it will appeal to the legions of half ton domestic owners that feel/need to own a monster. Toyota is probably banking that current Tundra owners will find either the smaller Tacoma or the huge 07 tundra will meet their needs. We'll see.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    toyta gonna be #1, toyota gonna sell 200k units,
    Its gonna stand on its head a spit nickels and
    out perform everybody else !

    What a laugh ! Its taken years to barely break
    the 100k mark. But the new excuse is they are gonna
    sell 200k this year............

    Heck it took them a few years to offer a FACTORY
    installed trailer hitch !
    Someday they MIGHT offer a factory snowplow prep
    pk. like the big 3 do !

    PLEASE spare me on toyota wiz-bang 99 speed automatic
    transmission and the failure of other mfrs. not offering
    them yet (except Cadillac and Ford)! Put down the koolaid and take a trip
    over to the 07 camry problem thread(s) and read about
    the new transmission and its MANY complaints and issues!

    I need some of that koolaid ! :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Well balanced post.

    But what is true now is that in what the Tundra does offer it kicks the butt of the other 4...significantly. Yes the detroiters will sell more 2nd ( or 3rd ) rate trucks with more options but it's not a sprint to number 1 it's a marathon to making the most profit.

    In that race the other 3 have been lapped - twice. This Tundra when it begins to hit it's stride will just make the gap bigger btw T and GM/F/DC. Heck they might be 3 laps back.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Me thinks that the jury is still out on the tundra
    "kicking butt" on the big 3. I still haven't done
    a specs compare on payload, towing weights, etc....

    Time will tell if the new trans. is or will be as
    problematic as the camry unit. (Yes I KNOW that one
    is Front wd vs. the trucks rwd)..............
    Most likely the same design principal ?

    But as far as someone who actually WORKS their truck
    the tundra is a also ran with NO plow prep. option.

    I DO love the posts here on the tundras interior esp.
    the comments on the big and EASY to use controls (with
    gloves on)and how innovative they are !

    FUNNY when the GMT-800 design came out in 99 with those
    big buttons that were also easy to use with gloves on
    the zealots mocked GM and its "playschool" designed
    controls right here at Edmunds !
    But now that toyota does it its wonderful, fresh,
    thoughtful did I mention innovative?..............
    Sheesh ! :sick:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Subject by subject...
    I've done the comparison and the only truck in the Tundra's class is the new GMT900's ... but it's next to impossible to get the top-spec'd vehicle. The standard 5.3L and the standard 6.0L are only a distant 2nd. The Silvy does haul well and looks nice inside but that's it.

    The F150 and Ram are very old and WAY behind in capabilities, although the F150 can tow well - as long as it's done very slowly and there is no need to accelerate.

    BTW on the Camry transmission issue, tempest in a teapot. The people with driving problems are very vocal as they should be but the number of actual complaints to the NHTSA is a massive...... 35.... out of 450,000 units sold. That's the extent of the problem.

    There is a snow plow package in the works. It will likely miss this winter but be available for next winter.

    The interior controls are a good point of discussion. I actually do like the Silverado's look better as being more upscale... but is it too nice to be a truck? Especially a work truck. I do think the buttons on the dash are way too small for a trucking environment. But this is styling and it's one place where someone will always be displeased.
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    toyta gonna be #1, toyota gonna sell 200k units,
    Its gonna stand on its head a spit nickels and
    out perform everybody else !


    Yep, they certainly will. 200k in the full size truck market is nothing considering the previous Tundra was selling 100k plus. The Titan will probably take the brunt of that blow. The rest will easily be carved out of the big 3. I can guarantee that Toyota will be a major player in the full size truck market. Toyota is renown throughout the world for making bullet proof trucks that can handle anything.

    What a laugh ! Its taken years to barely break
    the 100k mark. But the new excuse is they are gonna
    sell 200k this year............


    Denial is a good thing, it can prevent or at least postpone a nervous breakdown. Keep at it.



    PLEASE spare me on toyota wiz-bang 99 speed automatic
    transmission and the failure of other mfrs. not offering
    them yet (except Cadillac and Ford)! Put down the koolaid and take a trip


    More denial? Dismissing the the new Toyota 6 speed is akin to the big 3 dismissing the Camry in the early 80s.

    over to the 07 camry problem thread(s) and read about
    the new transmission and its MANY complaints and issues!


    I'm familiar with with Toyota's growing pains. The difference is that Toyota will recognize and correct these problems quickly where the big 3 typically just keep plodding along with their quality problems. Granted they have made big improvements, but they are painfully slow in coming. The new silvy is a big improvement over the previous generation, but even many rabid GM fans admit that last generation GM trucks were very sub par (see GMI) to be kind. It's funny that in the year that Toyota offers a true full size contender, GM finally gets their act together and offers a really good truck (despite powertrain deficiencies ie. 4 sec lag, 4 speed). If you want to give your business to a sub par company that only gives a quality product in the face of fierce competition instead of quality being part of their DNA like Toyota and Honda, be my guest.

    If anybody is drinking kool aid it is domestic fans that buy one poor quality vehicle after another because they think it's their patriotic duty.
  • alfa_xray2010alfa_xray2010 Member Posts: 3
    You're an idiot. The F-150 is too old? Way behind in capabilities? It just came out in 2004, horsepower #s aside, still meets or beats all other competitors' capabilities. Are you one of those people that thinks a truck needs to be brand new every year?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Personal insults flying everywhere... It's like an episode of Jerry Springer.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    c'mon don't hold back. Say what you really mean.

    I know that the F150 just came out in 2004 but..
    .. the powertrain is the weakest of all the 5 competitors at 300 hp;
    .. it is impossible to get Stability control on any F150 at any price;
    .. in addition to having the weakest engine it also has the heaviest frame so it's doubly slow;
    .. 4 spd tranny vs Tundra's 6 spd; it should have had the new Ford/GM 6 spd from jump street;
    .. all the airbags are not standard; this is a common shortcut Ford is taking across all product lines ( extra money ).

    However in balance..
    .. with it's very strong frame it is second behind the Tundra in towing capability;
    .. just don't try to accelerate very fast with a load;
    .. it can be ordered with a heavy duty payload package ( extra ) which gives it best-in-class hauling on 4 configurations - but at a price.
    .. it has been proven to be very reliable and durable.
    .. can Ford spend enough money to give the next Gen a competitive top-end drive train?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The interior controls are a good point of discussion. I actually do like the Silverado's look better as being more upscale... but is it too nice to be a truck? Especially a work truck.

    How many average owners are going to own the Silverado, for a work truck ???? The majority of the people that have work trucks buy diesel HD 3/4 & 1 ton's. ;) The half ton owners buy trucks because they can haul house hold furnishings, tow a boat or trailer once in a while. In many cases they want the 4x4 capability for inclement weather and sometimes hunt and fish making a truck the practical vehical for throwing a carcass in the back or fishing poles and tackle boxes in the bed. A 1/2 ton truck is simply a mans automobiles that his spouse likes enough to drive or see's practical use for one.

    These of course are my opinions based on family, friends, co-workers, and self experience of owning a truck. My wife for example want's me to buy a brand new black 07' GMC Sierra Denali. I told her I want to wait for the 2-mode hybrid since it will achieve the desired fuel economy I'd want. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    That's a good alternate view and one that everyone involved will be watching.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Keep drinking that toyota koolaid...............

    Less than a full size (aka height) bed, bottom of the heap
    in towing capacity, NO snow plow prep. pkg.(yet GM and Ford
    DO offer it in a 1/2 ton.
    No wonder its called the 7/8 full size pickup !
    Someday yota will catch up!
    Wish Edmunds would update their truck specs. on the 07 yota
    so it could be compared to the others.

    toyota mAY later than sooner innovate rather than imitate.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    geo9,

    You forget it has the optional 5.7 381 hp V8 that is the best thing since sliced bread even though it get's 13 mpg ;)

    God, I can't wait for the Sierra Denali coming out this March to put the Tundra in it's place and it will leave no stone un turned. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Have you been under a rock for the last 6 months?

    The new Tundra hitting next Monday is the Beast of the Market. It's bigger, wider, longer and more powerful than any other 1/2 ton in existence. I can't believe that you have missed all this. Hellooo.

    The baby 5.4L 300 hp Ford is the smallest and the weakest of all the big engines in the segment. It's only about 2/3rds of the Tundra's power. I'm shocked that you've missed everything. Did you know that there was an Auto Show in Detroit this year.

    OK I'm poking fun but seriously the F150 is actually the weakest and slowest of all the 5 trucks in the market now. The new Tundra shown at this years Detroit Auto show is the biggest truck on the market. Stupid big.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You crack me up with this stuff... keep it coming! It's hysterical (assuming you know about the new for 07 Tundra). If not, you should learn about it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Careful Rock... the Tundra and the Titan smoked the MT TOTY in fuel economy in Edmunds test. Not to mention acceleration and stopping ( and likely towing since the MT TOTY has that secret 4 second hiccup which GM conveniently didn't tell buyers about ).

    The Denali better be good. The Silvy lasted in 1st place for 3 weeks. There is also a couple of other dark secrets that no one has mentioned about the 2007 Silvy. The 6.0L doesn't really tow 10,500# as the specs say it should. Well it does, but you can't buy one. It's a little dark secret that you can buy a 6.0L but it's only as capable as the 5.3L!!! The 5.3L is the smallest and least capable of all the 1/2 ton engines....it's neck and neck with the 5.4L in the F150 for last in the segment.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    more powerful than any other 1/2 ton in existence.

    Careful kd, I don't think your fuzzy math is adding up. The Sierra Denali, is SAE certified at 400 hp. and 417 lbs. Tq. which whips the pants off your 381 hp & 401 tq Tundra ;) :P :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    kd,

    Do you have any evidence that supports your claims ????

    http://www.gmc.com/sierra900/1500/specsDimension.jsp

    If the Silverado can't pull 10500 then certainly the Tundra can't ?

    Dr.Fill, you told us all the Silverado, doesn't have the "work truck" capability's of the new Tundra. I've read on various sites that say the Silverado has the highest payload of any half-ton truck which I would think would be critical to a work truck wouldn't it ????? :blush:

    My god, some of y'all are rough. I had to go out and make sure y'alls claims were factual. My research and conclusion is y'all are giving me more Potato's than Meat to phrase it in nicer words. ;)

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Rockylee,
    The Denali will be a small volume very top-end model to the GMC line..when it comes out. The 6.2L will likely be very competitive with the 5.7L Tundra but only in one configuration Denali vs Crew Max Ltd at 'beaucoup bucks'. That assumes that GM doesn't put some secret closed loop power damper into the programing either.

    For the rest of the truck market the Tundra 5.7L can be bought in a Reg Cab, Double Cab, Crew Max, 2WD or 4WD, Ltd or SR5 standard version for Joe-everyday-truck-buyer.

    Regarding the phantom 10,500# towing capacity of the 6.0L it goes to the GM 'Build and Price' feature on the website as compared to the specs/capacities on the same website.

    Here's the specifics.
    The 4WD EC Std bed version with the 6.0L has a standard towing capacity of 8600#. ( see specifications/capacities/trailering )
    Just below this there is the option to go up to 10000#+ if the vehicle has the 'Max Trailering Package'.
    Fair enough:
    .. Now go to the 'Build and Price' feature for a 2007 Silvy EC Std bed 4WD 2LT.
    .. Go through all the steps and try to find a 6.0L engine anywhere as an option. It's not there. You can't build one and I presume order one.
    .. But you can get the 6.0L if you know enough to order the Z71 Off Road Package.
    .. But there is no option to order the 'Max Trailering Package' which the specs above state must be added in order to get the 10000#+ Towing. there is the normal HD Trailering package but that only give you an 8600# capacity.

    So if you can somehow find the 6.0L to order it you can't get the best version of it only the standard version, which is pretty weak actually since it's only slightly more capable than the 5.3L. Thenyou have to deal with the 4 sec closed loop power-inhibitor program that Edmunds discovered.

    The Tundra BTW comes Standard ( at no extra cost ) with 10000#+ Towing Capacity on all 5.7L engines. It was published yesterday. The Tundra now has it's foot on the Silvy's neck.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Dr.Fill, you told us all the Silverado, doesn't have the "work truck" capability's of the new Tundra. I've read on various sites that say the Silverado has the highest payload of any half-ton truck which I would think would be critical to a work truck wouldn't it ?????

    Actually the Ford does ... but you have to add the HD Payload Package in order to get it. With this package the F150 is far above any of the other 4- but only on 4 configurations.

    But if you are talking about standard hauling capacities...here are the figures for the 10 most common congifurations:
    ............Tundra .. Silvy .. F150 .. RAM
    2WD
    RC Std Bed - 1765 .. 1952 .. 1820 .. 1810 - Silvy
    RC LBed... - 2080 .. 1812 .. 2000 .. 1640 - Tundra

    EC Std Bed - 1755 .. 2160 .. 1890 .. 1570 - Silvy
    EC LBed... - 1655 .. 1687 .. N/A .. 1380 - Tundra/Silvy

    CC Sht Bed - 1680 .. 2039 .. 1780 .. 2438 - RAM

    4WD
    RC Std Bed - 1700 .. 1713 .. 1720 .. 1320 - 3 way tie
    RC LBed... - 2000 .. 1850 .. 1670 .. 1310 - Tundra

    EC Std Bed - 1655 .. 2013 .. 1740 .. 1330 - Silvy
    EC LBed... - 1555 .. 1574 .. N/A .. 1220 - Tundra/Silvy

    CC Sht Bed - 1590 .. 2010 .. 1630 .. 1980 - Silvy/Ram
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Less than a full size (aka height) bed..."

    Bed depth:

    Dodge Ram - 20.2"
    Chevy Silverado - 21.0"
    Toyota Tundra - 22.2"
    Ford F150 - 22.3"

    Draw your own conclusions.

    "...bottom of the heap in towing capacity..."

    Dodge Ram - 2900 lbs. std. / 8750 with tow package
    Ford F150 - maxed out at 9500 lbs. for ext. and crewcab models. Maxed out at 11000 lbs. for reg. cab.
    Chevy Silverado - Maxed out at 10500 for ext/crewcab 4x4 models.
    Toyota Tundra - maxed out at 10,800 lbs. for regular cab 4x2. Maxed at 10,600 for Dcab and 10,400 for Crewmax.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    Sounds to me like there might be some anti-Toyota Koolaid making the rounds.....
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Funny the towing cap. from Edmunds:
    All 1/2 ton reg. cab small v-8, auto 4wd specs.
    Silverado 8900 lbs.
    Ram 8800 "
    toyota 8200 "
    Ford 6800! "

    Funny.....toyota lists NO factory trailer hitch aval....
    according to Edmunds
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Someday yota will catch up!

    Your obviously trolling for attention here. There is no one that doesn't know that the Silvy is now playing catch up with Toyota with their powertrain. You seriously can't have your head buried that far in the sand.

    Toyota may later than sooner innovate rather than imitate.

    You mean the way Honda did with the Ridgeline. Yep, you strike me as a person that appreciates innovation.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You are looking at 2006 specs.. c'mon son get up to date.

    Go to Toyota's website and see the 2007 specs. It'll scare the daylights out of you.... ;). All your preconceived notions are shattered.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Those figures ARE from Edmunds spec. lists for 07s !
    Easy to compare all 4 trucks from a "neutral" site.
    So no koolaid !

    But still NO factory trailer hitch (acc. to Edmunds)

    Are they still making the "honda pantyline"?
    I have seen reports that it is gonna be discontinued
    because of poor sales. The complaints on that "wondercar"
    here at Edmunds and ridglineownersclub are quite funny !
    The water leak posts alone are quite amusing. What about the
    failing strut issus? Are the body wrinkle posts still closed ?
    I LOVE the long term test reviews here at Edmunds tho.
    Heck, They only had 3 struts FAIL at 1 time........
    Talk about heads in the sand! :P

    GM had that idea from the get-go with the Avalanche!
    But they screwed up !...No in bed "trunk" !
    honda the innovators !
    honda thought it was good enough to TRY and copy.......
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Those figures ARE from Edmunds spec. lists for 07s !
    Easy to compare all 4 trucks from a "neutral" site.
    So no koolaid !


    Son, the specs are clearly listed on Toyota's site. If they are different on Edmunds, Edmunds has made a mistake. Where do you think edmunds gets their numbers? Do you think they do independent testing or something? Get a clue.

    Are they still making the "honda pantyline"?
    I have seen reports that it is gonna be discontinued
    because of poor sales.


    Calling inanimate objects names is a sure sign of someone that doesn't have a case. Poor sales? Honda met sales projections last year. I'm not sure what your talking about. There is a V6 diesel coming in 09 for the Ridgeline.

    The complaints on that "wondercar"
    here at Edmunds and ridglineownersclub are quite funny !
    The water leak posts alone are quite amusing. It the
    body wrinkle still closed ?
    Talk about heads in the sand!


    More name calling. My, this truck must have you really irritated. The posts about the Avy's problems ar also very amusing here on Edmunds and elsewhere.

    GM had that idea from the get-go with the Avalanche!
    honda thought it was good enough to TRY and copy.......


    Bob Lutz, a GM VP and GM's auto ghuro said the Ridgeline had the best packaging of any vehicle he has ever seen. I'm assuming he's aware of the Avalanche. I'm also assuming he's infinitely more informed on the auto industry than you are.

    GM Vice President praises Honda Ridgeline

    At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit earlier this month, Bob Lutz, GM's vice chairman, brought a large contingent to inspect Ridgeline. He told Flint: It's the best ``packaging'' of any vehicle he has ever seen, meaning the best layout and use of space.

    Lutz praises competitors sparingly, especially those from abroad.


    There isn't a better multi purpose SUT on the market than the Ridgeline. Their are few that would disagree

    -Motor Trend truck of the year 2006
    -North American Truck of the year 2006
    -Detroit News truck of the year 2006
    -Consumer Reports top rated truck
    -JD Power & Associates 2005 APEAL award for the Honda Ridgeline
    -Autobytel 2006 Editors' Choice Award: Truck of the year 2006
    -Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) Best New Pickup 2006
    -On Wheels Incorporated: Ridgeline 2006 Urban Wheel Award for the Urban Truck of the Year
    -Ridgeline wins Strategic Vision's coveted "Most Delightful" compact pickup award.
    -best rollover resistance rating of any pickup tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
    -first-ever 4-door pickup to earn a 5-star safety rating for both front and side impact crash test performance from the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA).
    -Society of Plastic Engineers 2005 Grand Award (composite inbed trunk)
    -Car And Driver Rates Honda Ridgeline #1 Pickup.
    - AutoWeek Editors' Choice Award as the 'Most Significant' new vehicle in the show
    -Maxim Truck Of The Year 2006
    -Autoweb.com top ten tailgater
    -2007 Automobile Magazine All Star award Top 10 cars for 2007

    Now back to the full size truck that has the best powertrain on the market: The 07 Tundra
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Funny the towing cap. from Edmunds:
    All 1/2 ton reg. cab small v-8, auto 4wd specs.
    Silverado 8900 lbs.
    Ram 8800 "
    toyota 8200 "
    Ford 6800! "


    The only number I'll quibble with there is the one for the Silverado. The number you've indicated (8900 lbs.) is for the 5.3l V8 version rather than the "small v-8" 4.8l version. Since all of the other numbers you indicated are for the sub-5.0l versions (4.7l V8 for the Dodge Ram, 4.7l V8 for the Toyota Tundra and 4.6l V8 for the F150), it would probably be fairer to compare against the Silverado equipped with the 4.8l V8.

    According to Chevy's Silverado website, the Silverado equipped similarly to the others will tow 7900 lbs not 8900 lbs.

    "Funny.....toyota lists NO factory trailer hitch aval....
    according to Edmunds."


    Well, according to Toyota's website, their V8 tow package includes the following:

    "Heavy-duty tow hitch receiver
    7-pin connector
    Trailer brake controller prewire
    Supplemental transmission cooler
    TOW/HAUL mode
    Automatic-transmission temperature gauge
    4.100 rear axle ratio
    (on 4.7L models) or 4.300
    rear axle ratio (on 5.7L models)"

    I'd still like to see you backup your earlier assertion that the Tundra has "bottom of the heap towing capacity".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Thank you for your well-informed post. I think it would be wise not to feed the bear though. By making outlandish statements that don't hold water, he/she getting the attention that they want, and adding absolutely nothing beneficial to this thread except higher blood pressure. I've been sitting here watching this exchange, and whether you think people realize it or not, it is obvious that you are the level-headed side of the debate.

    I mean, c'mon, calling trucks names? It's comical at best, but managing to evaporate what credibility orignally existed before those statements.

    Thanks gearhead1,

    TheGrad
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    4 sec closed loop power-inhibitor program that Edmunds discovered.

    Can you explain to me what that is ???

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Now back to the full size truck that has the best powertrain on the market: The 07 Tundra

    I would think that would be the 6.2 V8 in the Denali.

    I often find it funny how some of you guys spin the thread to make lower models from GM compete against the top models from Toyota. I hope that makes y'all feel warm inside. ;)

    Kd, I'm not going to dispute your post. I don't have enough information to know how you can configure the new Silverado yet. I've also found that the Chevy website is kind of confusing when trying to configure the best truck for towing. I'll give another run at it in the near future to see how the 6.0 can obtain the 10500 tow rating.

    I know the new Silverado is a POS and the new Tundra is the greatest truck since slice bread when y'all do a comparo similar to the ones edmunds.com's staff has done.

    I do find it funny so many normally very biased anti-GM magazines, news papers, etc, picked the Silverado as their truck of the year and gave it good reviews. ;)

    I guess because the edmunds.com staff doing a apples to oranges comparo that was enough in y'alls minds to reinforce any doubt that Toyota, is the best at everything and GM's automobiles because of the 1980's are still crap.

    I know I'm going to the far extreme but that is essentially the make-up of some personality's on this forum based on past posts. geo9, isn't the only one that has put questionable stereotype labels with automobiles and I find it funny that he gets slammed by people that have done the same thing in the past with stereotypes. ;)

    I could go up and down the list and find dislikes with the Tundra, and explain why it's not the best pick-up. What would I accomplish ????

    Y'all are going to buy it not because you need the extra powertrain but because it wears the Toyota badge and thats enough reason to make the purchase even though you will pay more, get less of a warranty, and get less features and refinement.

    I will go out on a limb and say this fall we will likely see some powertrain adjustments from GM, to meet or exceed Toyota. I suppose then y'all would still find other faults with the Silverado, because no matter what GM, does it won't be good enough let alone be as good as the Tundra. This is very typical of not only the trucks we are talking about but GM vs. Toyota in general. I can't change y'alls perception and I'm not trying to change y'alls minds on what you should like. I just think the Silverado, finally deserves a little respect and not be trashed. I've said the new Tundra, is a very nice worthy full-size truck but it being the best is subject to the individuals. I have a feeling the majority of people that buy the Silverado, over the Tundra won't be disappointed about it's disadvantages which is some cases are advantages. :shades:

    Rocky
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Actually you can configure the Silverado for a 10500# towing capacity with the Max Trailering Package but only the 2006 Heritage model... the T800's.

    When they went to the new T900's this was dropped.

    I'm guessing, only a guess, that since the T900's are new and just launching since Sept that they haven't opened all the options up as yet. They may not be building many 6.0L Silvy's as yet for a couple of reasons..
    a) they are just ramping up production so the 5.3L gets all the production time;
    b) there is little demand for the 6.0L in a half ton pickup. As you originally noted if someone is going to do very heavy work then it's the DuraMax which is probably GM's best - and most profitable - drivetrain. GM may be discouraging buyers from ordering the 6.0L in favor of stepping up to the DuraMax 2500. Better truck / more profits.

    As an indication there are ZERO 6.0L V8's on our Chevy lot. The bulk are the 5.3L & 4.8L and the DuraMax diesels.

    Toyota is doing the same with the 4.0L V6's in the Tundra. It's much better to go to a V8 ( 4.7 or 5.7 ) than to order the V6. So they price it very high in relation to the V8's.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well perhaps this fall GM, will up the horsepower rating on the 6.0 to 385 so they can claim they have the highest output of the trucks ? I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years. The VortecMax engine (6.2) with 400+ hp will be here this fall. I don't know if that will be a Chevy Silverado SS model or not ? We will see..... :)

    Rocky
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    Thank you for your well-informed post. I think it would be wise not to feed the bear though.

    You are of course correct, but his pitches are so slow and right over the plate, it's hard to resist not knocking them out of the park.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I still would have doubts. The 10K trailer probably is more like 5K

    The fully loaded payload is probably brick painted cardboard boxes....grin :blush:

    The acceleration tests probably are done with a engine swap of GM's 6.0 V8 with Toyota emblems :D

    I couldn't resist..... :P

    Rocky
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    As they would gladly use Toyota engines in their cars, like they have done many times, past (Cavalier in Japan, Geo Prism), and present (Vibe GT).

    Pretty sure Toyota would give a raspberry to a domestic swap. Overhead valves and pushrods are like Beta tapes to 'Yota. :P

    DrFill
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years.

    Huh? Are we talking half-tons? Sivlerado had a 5.3L with 310hp right? Last I checked, the Dodge has had this beat for awhile now with a 5.7L 345 hp. Am I forgetting something?
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Member Posts: 408
    I would think that would be the 6.2 V8 in the Denali.

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali. Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM. Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys. That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    I often find it funny how some of you guys spin the thread to make lower models from GM compete against the top models from Toyota. I hope that makes y'all feel warm inside.

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra, but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.


    Y'all are going to buy it not because you need the extra powertrain but because it wears the Toyota badge and thats enough reason to make the purchase even though you will pay more, get less of a warranty, and get less features and refinement.

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and that they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Am I forgetting something?

    Yep !!!! I'm talking about the whole company and not just a specific segment.....but FYI that same dodge was met with a 345 hp. 6.0 GMC Sierra Denali. ;) Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp. but it's not as bad as Fords current line-up ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Now dodge is at the back of the pack when it comes to muscle presently. That goes for the whole car company of Chrysler corp.

    Guess you forget the Titan and F-150 then?

    ...Sierra Denali with 6.0L 345 hp...

    Was this offered in any other half-tons other than the $45k Caddy of pickups? Anything that might remotely be used for more work than lux? It is such a narrow model, I'd not heard of anything like it since the Sierra C3.
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "I think it's critical to their marketing to out power the competition like they have for years."

    rock- have you ever heard of the SVT F150 Lightning or Dodgre Ram R/T? Both trucks both come with more standard hp than the Silvy SS.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Dude, your kidding me ?????

    Okay, this is a future engine not even listed on the GMC web site for the Denali.

    I guess 1-month is way off into the future ??? :confuse:

    Even with the lessor Denali engine which is quite "lessor" to say the least, the Denali starts at over $40,000. At this price point you could get a 4x4 Tundra Crew Max 5.7, 6 speed, Limited. The Denali is a very small part of the truck market for GM.

    The Denali line accounted for 30% of GMC's sales and is projected to rise significantly according to a spokesmouth from GMC marketing team. ;)

    Just to stick to the point of this thread, we're talking about the Silverado not the luxury Denali. The Silvy is GM's most popular mass production half ton not some obscure luxury truck that hardly anybody buys.

    Okay fair enough. I'd like to see 2 like vehicals being compared instead of grabbing straws from Edmunds review which btw is the only car testing company that has the Tundra, ranked over the Silverado. I guess it wouldn't be a first time for them. FYI-GMC, isn't a luxury brand, thus the Denali isn't a luxury truck. The Escalade EXT is the luxury truck with the ultra comfy ride.

    That is why the 6.2 isn't seriously discussed in debates like this. Grasping at the 6.2 saying it beats the 5.7 is kind of well ....desperate. The more interesting question is will they move the 6.2 to the Silvy as an option and how much will it cost, and what are the likely reliability issues.

    The 6.2 will make it to the Silverado, probably as a SS. Rumor's I've read are saying 500+ hp. It could also be a option called the VortecMax for other Silvy models with 400 hp. Look to see it available this fall for 08'. ;) So far, so good for the 6.2. It's been in the Slade since last spring. Has the new 5.7 Tundra V8 been proven ????? What are it's reliability issues ???? :confuse:

    GM has vastly improved the Silvy from the last generation. Just looking at the exterior it seems to exude a better feeling of quality over the last generation, but the top silvy still can't compete with the top Tundra in the powertrain department. As for the interiors, I'll leave that discussion for all the women interior decorators that seem to frequent these truck discussions. The only warm feeling I get inside is when I'm right. I've been feeling quite warm lately.

    I will say it again their's more to a truck than just it's powertrain. the 5.3 is a proven high mileage, ultra reliable engine. If I was driving the 5.7 I'd be concerned with sludge issues and such since that is making news. ;)

    I don't doubt that GM will catch up to the current Tundra

    You can't be serious.....One (1) good apples to oranges review and now GM, has to play catch up ????? Ummmmmm you've lost all credibility from me.

    but more than likely Toyota will have something better in the works. I've heard from people supposedly in the know that the 5.7 can be tuned comfortably above 400hp and won't actually blow until approaching 500hp. We'll see what Toyota has in store. What's surprising is that toyota so comfortably trumped the recently released silvy (which is a pretty good truck) with their first true attempt at a full size truck.

    That Toyota, Kool-Aid must be tasting great. Again 1 good review using a Tundra Limited vs. a stripped down Silverado, by a biased edmunds Toyota, kool-aid drinking staff is the only trump card you need while several other credible sites picked the Silverado over the Tundra ? hmmmmmm...maybe that's because they test similar vehicals when conducting truck tests ????? No that wouldn't be it :D
    BTW-The last generation was their first attempt at a full-size truck and it's not GM's fault they fumbled the oppertunity. ;)

    Isn't the Toyota badge enough especially when I've owned a Toy truck for 15+ years and it still runs like new. I might add that one main point people talk about in these discussions is how brand loyal domestic truck buyers are and they won't give the new Tundra a chance simply because it's asian. Talk about buying a vehicle just because of the badge, domestic truck buyers are the epitome of that statement. Detroit is counting on a segment of the market called "import avoiders". These people are out there and won't buy a vehicle simply because it has a Toyota badge. There is alot of anti Honda/Toyota sentiment on the web, and I notice the same vitriolic comments aren't directed toward euro brands ie. BMW, Mercedez etc. I think it boils down for some reason to an anti asian bias or the "R" word. Some people are very reluctant to recognize the quality of asian products siting customers as sheep, press bias etc. Any reason other than the Japanese make a superior product.

    Most domestic truck buyers are patriotic, blue-collar, working middle class, americans. They don't want some foreign company and country to buy-off what their family died for. They feel the same about our products as the Japanese do about there's. How many Japanese people do you see go buy american or other country's products. They are nationalist. This is Japans, first real attempt to capture sales in a brand loyal crowd. They will sell everyone they make but it won't be easy sales and here in Truck country (Texas) I don't see many Japanese trucks on the road. They are very rare !!!! Some of my co-workers and friends were so disaapointed with trying out Toyota's last generation they said they still won't consider the new one. My buddy Cody, bought a 06' and he's so dissapointed with it after 4,000 miles he's ready to get rid of it. He's been asking me about the Denali and Escalade EXT already. I was like dude I tried to tell you. He says yeah, I should of listened. I asked him if he was going to get a 07' ???? He goes hell no !!!! I should of kept my Lariat Ford :D

    You also need to remember gearhead1, the Euro's don't come over to the U.S. and try to americanize themselves in our culture and I think many americans respect that. I know I do. ;)

    Con't below............
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    One point I'll grant you is that Toyota should step up their warranty if not to compete with GM, then to compete with Hyundai which is the greater threat to both Toyota and Honda. Hyundai has made great strides in quality over the last few years and is very focused on competing with Toyota. Toyota has grown, some say to fast which has elicted some quality issues which I believe will be quickly corrected simply because it's their way. It's what they do. If Toyota doesn't think that the words quality/reliability are their bread and butter then they deserve their fate. One thing I am fairly certain of is that they crossed their T's and dotted their i's with this new truck. They can't afford to have issues. This truck must make a impression and must say quality and reliability. Toyota is already introducing this truck with killer financing rates. They've come to play and play hard. They want as many of these trucks on the road as quickly as possible proving themselves. That factory is going to be churning out trucks like crazy to meet that 200K goal.

    Well with what 3 straight years of having quality issues their track record hasn't been great as of late. They've been accused of hiding recalls for 8 years giving a false perception of flawlessness. I personally am rooting against them. I will always root for the home team. Our government has done way to much to help foreign company's invest here while doing nothing for struggling domestic manufactoring that want to stay here and provide good jobs. I don't see the same helping hand offered by the Japanese government to our manufactor's with trade barriers and I don't see Japanese tax dollars subsidizing U.S. corporations seeking a foot in the Japanese culture do you ????? This just isn't in the automobile industry either. Regardless, the Tundra is a good truck and I respect it. However your justifications for making it the best is based on 1 review. I think I've done enough to dispute that so I will leave it alone

    Have a good one ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    2007 GMC Sierra Denali

    The King of 1/2-Ton Pick-ups :shades:

    http://www.sportruck.com/news/2007-GMC-Sierra-Denali/index.htm

    This should satisfy you........ ;)

    Rocky
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    you've lost all credibility from me. - to gearhead1

    Then why the massive response?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Ford Lighting is no longer made but was easily whipped by the 6-speed manual 400 hp. SSR. The fastest lighting I ever saw ran 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. That was very fast back in the day. I will also dig up the past also with the 91' GMC Syclone that would out run the current and famous R/T. To put it simpily the GMC Syclone is the fastest truck ever made 0-60 in 4.4-4.6 and Quarter mile in the high 12's and was actually faster than that when a rainy mist was present which cooled the Syclones intercooled turbocharger. :shades:

    I expect based on past readings a SS Silverado with 500-600 hp. will be out maybe this fall ???? It shout out run the Ram R/T ;)

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.