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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado

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Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The bigger question is how are some stores doing it for free..forever?

    Oil filter type and oil change procedure..that would have been me.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    My guess is that when they say "free", they mean labor is free. Then they charge a premium for parts (oil and filter). I have seen this many times in the past. And/or...They want you in there as much as possible to get you to spend money on other services which you may or may not need or could get done elsewhere for less money. Any way you look at it, their goal is to make money, not to give anything away.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Nope.. free as in come in drop off the keys and walk out paying nothing....ever.

    There is method to the seeming madness but it takes a person with a different level of thinking ( and confidence to assume some risk ) to make it work.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    In the long run, they know they will make enough money off of you to cover all of the costs of the free oil changes, plus some. Dealers are a business, and a good chunk of their profits come from their service department. They are not in business to give stuff away or lose money, or they wouldn't be in business very long, now would they? Believe me, they figure in the cost of these free oil changes into their operating costs and set their prices accordingly. I suppose if you are a "savvy" customer, you could take advantage of this and only bring your car to the dealer for the oil changes and somewhere else for the service, but they know most people don't do that and prefer to minimize their trips to the service shops. "Why not get that routine maintenance done while your at it anyway". More power to them I say.
  • myobmyob Member Posts: 53
    I just got a Tacoma, but in 2 years our other car will be ready for replacement and I considered giving the Tacoma to my wife to drive and buying a reg cab truck for work. I have times when I need more bed space and just need a bigger truck.

    I did a little looking on the website where you can buy and price cars (and where I got the Tacoma) and a moderately equipped 2wd 5.7L Tundra set up with what I'd need/want (wider tires, stiffer suspension, alloys, chrome grill, etc) was a LOT more than a Silverado. It drove out for $29,000 with tax. That is a LOT for a pretty basic pickup. The Silverado's roughly comparable truck was $22,000.

    If things don't change I know which I'd choose, especially if they put the 6 speed auto in the Silverado. I'm not particularly brand loyal.

    The pricing seems to be closer on extended cab versions.
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    I'm not going to respond with personal attacks like you have done previously e.g. "That's your version of spin, and not very intelligent at that (but don't worry, we don't expect that from you)." I guess you haven't learned already that it is not proper online etiquette or allowed on Edmunds.

    Hey buddy, you started it with your accusation that " I knew you were going to try to spin" the issue of the relative diffculty of basic maintenance items like oil changes. It has since been discussed that the Tundra owner must remove skid plates just to get to the filter. So, how is that speculation??? And, you further asserted that my past negative experiences regarding lousy workmanship were with Chevy dealers. So who, exactly, started this flame war?

    It's not spin to point out the facts, no matter how unpleasant they are for you. With me you get what you give. I take no bs off anyone, most especially those whose demonstrated knowledge of things mechanical is zip. This especially includes you ggesq.

    BTW, the local Toyota dealer (Power Toyota, (562) 860-6561) here charges $32.88 + the Guvernator charges an add'l. 8.25% tax for a total of $35.59. Not too far from my original estimate of $40 which you pooh-poohed. Go ahead, spin THAT. Now, that's not terrible, but over the life of a vehicle it adds substantially to the cost of ownership. Not to mention the time involved and the high potential to get a lousy job.

    BTW, I even checked the price of the filter alone. The parts dept. said they are $7.00, but the guy I talked to seemed confused so no promises on that price. If they are actually $7, which isn't bad at all, whoever is paying $20-$23 is getting ripped. This of course won't benefit anyone who doesn't have the ability or motivation to do it themselves.

    I cannot recopmmend this (or any) Toyota dealer for service based on the lousy past experiences I've had, but knock yourself out. And good luck with that, let us know how it goes for you.

    And BTW, I don't care what Toyota says about oil change intervals. They are in the businees to sell cars, and the faster you wear yours out the faster they can sell you a new one. But for you, I'd recommend at least 10,000 mile intervals. 20,000 miles would be better.

    And another thing ggesq. I have provided more useful technical information to this discussion than anyone else I can think of. The differences between open, LS, and locking differentials; the usefulness of 4 and 6 bolt main bearing caps, etc. LOOK IT UP. I have 35+ years of experience messing with cars. Based on my personal experience with Toyota dealers, I would put my technical/mechanical knowledge up against most so-called Toyota "mechanics" any day.

    'nuff said.

    1offroader
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    Well said 1offroader. I like your posts, and not just because I am a GM guy. I haven't had a chance to read all 1700+ posts on this thread, but from what I have read scanning through it, you and pmusce (sp?) are not giving the tundra guys much of a prayer. Seems they are really reaching for anything they can get their hands on and are sounding foolish most of the time. I won't mention any names, but they know who they are.
    Oh, and although there has been alot of "spinning" on here, it seems to be mostly coming from the tundra guys trying to strengthen their cases.

    Mike
    2007 VortecMax owner.
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Excellent post, belias. And one that is potentially useful to the Tundra owner, thank you.

    Indeed, the potential problem with the canister filter on the Tundra lies with access. If I have a chance in the future I willl take a peak under a hood and post add'l. info.

    There is another problem with canister filters of the type you described. When the paper insert is removed, some of the oil drips back into the canister along with the junk that the filter is supposed to retain. You don't want that going back into the engine but to some degree it is inevitable with that type filter. With tractors, it's not such a big deal - those things rarely turn more than 1500 rpm and they aren't driven hundreds of thousands of miles at interstate speeds. A little extra gunk in the crank case, eh, no big deal. There are tractors out there 50+ years old and running fine.

    With spin on filters, all the gunk is retained inside the steel canister and thrown away, just like God and nature intended.

    Now, with some canister type filters that I have worked on, the steel canister has a long bolt going through it. The bolt is threaded on the end and holds the whole shebang on the engine. Remove the bolt and the whole thing comes off. The paper insert is removed and replaced, then the whole thing is put back on. In essence, the steel canister is re-used each time unlike the screw-on type. With this type of canister, the gunk can be cleaned out and doesn't go back into the engine. But, it is messier to some degree.

    And yes, there is a neoprene o-ring around the top that needs to be replaced every once in a while but like you said, no big deal. It probably costs a buck or two.
    With the screw-on filter you get a new gasket each time because it is part of the filter.

    1offroader
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Any of you GM guys remember the filter in the canister
    set up GM used up untill 1967 ? I wonder if yotas deal
    is the same?

    Imagine the trouble that would follow if a oil change
    guy messed up the threads or whatever on that deal?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Can you get a 6.0L/6.2L in RC in the Chevy? :surprise:

    Just curious, as you said roughly similarly equipped.

    That would be similarly equipped. A 5.3 would be a little too "rough" to make a comparison, no?

    DrFill
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    "IF" the truck came with a skid plate, it would take one extra step in removing the plate. If that's a big deal, then so be it :confuse:

    Wow- I didn't mean for you to take this forum so seriously. You've taken a defensive stance and approach. Lighten up.

    As far as your local Toyota dealer charging what they do- ummm ok. Mine charges lower. So what? Some folks like doing their own work and take pride in that, which I can appreciate. Others don't.

    This conversation is actually off topic, (your 35 years of blah blah blah and oil changes) maybe we should get back to the comparison?
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    Yeah, I agree with some of the potential problems that the canister system may not address. It is unfortunate that we don't know enough about how this systems really works on the Tundra. Even the claim of $23 for the filter seems exceptionally weird. I would have to look back in the forum to see who first posted this number as I don't think it has been verified (though I believe that it was mentioned maybe because there was a shortage and someone that had stock was taking advantage of the situation).
    In any case, what we really need is, as you said, someone to actually look under the truck and find out what the real deal is and whether in fact the skid plate needs to be removed (if the skid plate option was taken).
    Again, spin ons have their pros and cons as well, but more importantly most people actually expect to see that, so, all things being equal, it is still the preferred method.
    As for the price of oil changes, I don't think that this varies much from dealer to dealer and is of little consequence to people that change their own oil anyway. I do when it is cheaper for me to do and when I have the time, but there are situations where it may be faster/cheaper to do it at a dealership (i.e. if I'm in the area and there is a special, etc.)
    I will say though that there are dealers that will do it pro bono as part of the deal for any vehicle purchased for the warranty period (up to 3 years usually, though BMW does this standard on theirs for the first 4 years). What people forget to mention is that the catch is in the intervals. According to dealership maintenance guides 7500 to 15000 mile intervals are the norm. That means that a 3/36K warranty with "free" oil changes amounts to between 2 to 4 oil changes. That, for most people will actually amount to between $50 and $150 worth of "free" services. That is easily offset by the benefit of having you come into their shop to demonstrate their service and to promote more opportunites for doing other services at the same time. Also, I'm pretty sure that it adds to the actual price of the vehicle in terms of what they will deal. Lastly, I'm sure that only half the people out there ever take advantage of it. People may forget that it is an offered service, or move out of the vicinity, or may have bought it there because the dealer that is more convenient didn't have the vehicle they wanted or the price they wanted to pay... in other words, there are lots of variables to why a good number of people wouldn't do it.
  • dreasdaddreasdad Member Posts: 276
    Every body that owned a vehcile was mailed a letter and everybody that had done service at our dealership that had the Tundra and the Highlander was also mailed a letter concering this fix.

    After all Toyota pays the dealer on warranty claims

    they forgot to tell you probably since you did not own one

    but booth recalls where widely reported in the press
  • khousekhouse Member Posts: 8
    I have to tell you man that Denali is one good looking truck, probably just a little bit out of my price range. Thinking of a new Chevy or maybe GMC Crewcab. I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's"

    It also depends on how much of an overdrive the various trucks have.

    Anybody got any idea of the top gear ratios for the Tundras and the GM's?
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    OK, here is some definitive info. First off, you do have to be under the vehicle to change the oil, but the process actually isn't as difficult as previously thought. The jury is still out on whether or not the skid plate actually has to be removed, but so far a couple of people have said so.
    The oil can be drained straight through a plug within the cannister that points straight down (so no dripping if done properly) and not at an angle.
    Two o-rings are provided with the filter and prices at dealerships look to be about $4.50 each. The part # is 04152-38020 for the 5.7l engine.
    I have a pdf document that explains the whole system, but can't post it from here until I get home later today. That gives a pretty good idea of how the system works and how to do the oil change.
    It isn't as straight forward as a regular spin on, but it doesn't look as difficult as initially though either. It seems like the skid plate is the biggest problem if that is ordered. However, looking at other trucking forums it seems like almost all truck owners with some kind of skid-plate or undercarriage protection need to remove them for that or other maintenance and inspections. Some owners have claimed to have "improvised" solutions such as snipping out holes, etc but also complain about the ability to reach and the angle of departure of oil dripping out and still getting onto the skid plate.
    It is a pain in almost any vehicle (having a skid plate) for doing virtually anything under the vehicle (though it can also save you a lot of problems when off-roading or on gravel/dirt roads).
    Again, I'll post the pdf a little later today when I can, but thought that the info showed the change wasn't that difficult. Removing the skid plate seems to be more of a problem, though not unique to Toyota.
    Also, it seems like many passenger cars have been moving back to the cartridge system. That is a little weird to me, as this is something that is basically most used on farming/heavy duty type machinery. In any case, many of Toyota's passenger cars and I think virtually all of BMW's new vehicles incorporate this system.
    Again, not sure if the benefits out-weigh the complexity of the system, but it seems like it isn't nearly as bad as it was first made out to be. I just wish that it could have been accessed from the top (though I suppose I still need to be under the vehicle to drain the oil anyway).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    With the 6 speed the higher gearing is higher than the others. The Tundra has in effect two overdrive gears. That's where you'll save money in fuel even with the bigger engine.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's"

    Okay, I looked up the overdrive gear ratio for the Tundras and the GM 4-speed.

    The Tundra 5-spd (smaller V8) has a 0.716 overdrive and a 4.1 rear end. So, the combined final drive would be 2.96:1.

    The Tundra 6-spd (larger V8) has a 0.588 overdrive and a 4.3 rear end. So, the combined final drive would be 2.53:1.

    From what I can tell (it's hard to find data), the GM 4-spd has a 0.70 overdrive. So, with a 3.73 rear end, the combined final drive would be 2.66:1. With a 3.42 rear end, the combined final drive would be 2.39:1.

    So, in effect, the Tundra with the small V8 WOULD be turning more rpms at highway speed while the Tundra with the 5.7 would be turning rpms somewhere between a GM with the 3.42 and the 3.73 (assuming similar tire sizes of course).
  • khousekhouse Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the info, I just wanted to know the differences. I don't need to tow a lot, so I'm thinking the mid range gears might be better.
  • beliasbelias Member Posts: 316
    I'm not sure how to make an attachment... Host, is there an easy way to attach a pdf document that shows info on changing oil for the 2007 Tundra? Can you help?
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    Well, well, well...hmmm, where do I begin?

    Just got home from the Mpls Auto show where I spent 4 hours (My feet are killing me btw) walking around. Most of my time was spent at the truck displays. Let me start by saying that I own a brand new 2007 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 Crewcab with the VortecMax 6.0 (hence my username). I can honestly say that after looking at all of the "competition" very thoroughly, especially the Tundra, I now know that I absolutely, 110%, without a shadow of a doubt made the right choice. I pretty much knew this already since I began my research 6 months ago and I have been a GM guy my whole life. But I wanted to compare all of the trucks I researched all in one venue. Keep in mind that this post is all my opinion and is based on my wants and needs as a truck owner. I realize that everyone has their own tastes as well as their own specific needs when it comes to a pick-up truck. With that said let me go into some detail, I will focus on the Tundra in this thread since it is a comparison between the GMs and the Tundra.
    The Tundra was far less impressive than I expected. The outside actually does look better in person than in pictures, but it is still ugly. The interior was worse in person than in pictures. Terrible layout of the large, ugly, cheap looking controls. The whole interior seemed really cheap. The seats were not nearly as comfortable as my GMC's Ultra-soft leather seats are. I would say it's like comparing a Cadillac to a Vega. When I was looking at the Tundra chassis they had on an angled display and checking out the frame, there was a Toyota "Product Specialist" aka Sales guy, bragging the frame up to an unsuspecting customer. When he was done with him, he asked me if I had any questions. I said "Yeah, I would like to challenge your comments on the frame" and then I proceeded to ask him why he thought the Tundra frame was better. His reasons were ridiculous, buy I tried to remain diplomatic and courteous. We were having a very good discussion/debate and then another fella (A Ford fan) joined us and also proceeded to question the Tundra's frame. This guy was not as nice as I was being however. He was being very blunt, but not rude. Finally, after about 10 mins, the Tundra salesman actually got frustrated and said "see ya" and turned around and walked away. Basically, we brought him to his knees and he knew he was beat. Unbelievable, I was shocked. As for my opinion on the frame? Aside from it not being a fully boxed frame all the way back, I noticed that the crossmembers were formed from flat sheet metal and bolted in, as opposed to tubular members on the GMs that are welded all the way through the boxed frame (both sides). I also noticed that every single Tundra they had had a bed mat in it, so I looked underneath to see what they were hiding. First, why are their exposed bolt heads? (Fords still have these too), GM has not had these for 10 years. Second, and more importantly, they actually stick up higher than the ribs in the bed floor. Doesn't this raise a flag in your mind? Cargo, whether it be cardboard boxes, shovels, anything really, will catch on these boltheads and rip boxes open and/or damage cargo (ie: furniture). Sure, a bed mat or drop-in bedliner will take care of this, but what about people who do not want a bed mat or liner, or (like me) prefer a spray-in liner? I was impressed with their cutaway model of their engine however. The engine was the only thing I was impressed with though. Overall "fit-n-finish" was nowhere near the quality of the GMs. I think I was smiling all the way home, knowing I was driving the better truck.
    No offense to all of you Toyota loyalists now, remember, I said this was my opinion. I just wanted to share it.

    Mike
  • toykickstoykicks Member Posts: 95
    Just saw the Government crash tests. Tundra scored lower with 4 stars and GMs twins, fords f150 and dodges Ram scored 5 stars. I wouldnt have a field day on this yet since the old gen f150 got a score of 4-5 stars and look how it turned out in Highway crash tests :P it also scored better then the old gen tundra in Government tests.

    Lets see how the tundra does in High way crash tests if it fails Screw the tundra :mad: .

    toyota started making special orders of duallys in march dont know what the payload on those hefrs are anybody know more info?
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    Yawn! :surprise:

    Like you would say you made a mistake?

    Since you obviously didn't want a Tundra, and didn't take the time to see it/drive it before buying the Chevy, your appraisal after the fact means less than nothing.

    They're both top-notch trucks, but you are eager, more like defensive, to run down the Tundra. Who are you trying to convince?

    I didn't know research & lip service were synonymous? Now I know. ;)

    DrFill
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    The salesfolk and toyyoyo fans on this thread sure
    are hatin' on any negative posts on that "wonder truck"!
    That 4 star rating (along with the premium price difference)
    is sure gonna sway quite a few buyers to other brands !

    Thats gonna be a hard one to explain to a possible
    customer how a truck with NO side air bags got a BETTER
    crash rating than one that does................

    I suppose the salesforce could babblegaff them past this
    little failure of this wonder truck with promotion of
    extra charge floormats, mudflaps, rust n' dust, choke n'
    croak, SET fees and other toyyoyo goodies........... :P
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    DrFill,

    Why the attack? I stated several times in my post that this was MY OPINION!!! Am I not entitled to my opinion and the right to state it on here? It may mean nothing to you, and that's fine, but don't speak for everyone on here. Sounds to me like YOU are the one being defensive, not me. I was just giving my assessment based on my OPINIONS!!! You like the Tundra better? Fine, go buy one...or two...or 10, I really couldn't care less. Geez, you (most anyway) Toyota fans on here sure are touchy. Why?
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    They are hatin' on you because you are a ACTUAL OWNER
    of a truck ! And even more so because its NOT a toyyoyo
    brand. :cry:
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    They are hatin' on you because you are a ACTUAL OWNER
    of a truck ! And even more so because its NOT a toyyoyo
    brand.


    That is pathetic. :sick:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Thats gonna be a hard one to explain to a possible
    customer how a truck with NO side air bags got a BETTER
    crash rating than one that does................


    That's because you don't know how the tests are done nor how they are rated. Like your previous post I don't know if you've ever presented a coherent thought concerning these two. Yes you have a lot of insinuations and hate toward SET but your personal vendetta's are not everyone elses.

    Troll on...............there must be an 'I hate SET' forum somewhere.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    kdhspyder,

    You are as bad as DrFill, why are you Toyota people so defensive? Why do you attack anyone who is not a Toyota fan? You both sound like Salesmen who feel the need to defend your product and attack anyone who doesn' like it. Sorta like that guy at the Auto Show last night, he was the same way. Can't other people state their opinion without getting abused? Lighten up, Toyota's are not the almighty God that we all must worship. sheesh.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Videos, pics, and reports of the tindras POOR frontal crash
    performance are all OVER the net as well on several
    major network news programs..............

    I am sure most toyyoyo salesfolks as well as the cheerleaders placed their collective heads in the sand
    because the tindra DID NOT out score other full size
    trucks...........

    Now if the shoe was on the other foot and brand X had
    a worse crash test rating than the tindra I am SURE
    the toyyoyo fans would be burning up bandwidth proclaiming
    yotas triumph over the "lesser" truck brands !

    As far as toyyoyos SET fees........ What a RIP OFF !
    Not too consumer friendly eh? Plenty of posts from
    unsuspecting folks who got the suprise of their life
    over this charge once they stepped into the F&I office.

    KDH........Do YOU explain this charge or warn the customer
    in ADVANCE? Or do you let them blindly go to F&I unwarned?
    If so.......Why not?????????? :P
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As I've noted here a few times... I vote with my feet. Like you I live in SET's region but buy in other regions. If it's so bothersome just ignore it, I do.

    Frankly on this I don't disagree with you at all. I just ignore the way it's done by taking my business elsewhere.

    I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons why the Japanese plant manager recently reassigned from Tx to Japan was this issue, among others. The timing is just too close. Toyota likes having top scores in the safety ratings. Not to have it is something that will rankle a lot of influential people until it's fixed. My .02 worth.

    Btw the frontal results have nothing to do with the side and curtain airbags. In a frontal collision neither of these should even deploy.
  • dreasdaddreasdad Member Posts: 276
    can you post links to these pics of the double cab crash tests? All I can find is info on the regular cab front
    crash test.
  • brazosboogerbrazosbooger Member Posts: 9
    I do not understand much of what you guys are talking about, but I do know that I just pulled two silverados out of the mud with my new tundra. I live in oilfield country and was in the forest hunting for shed antlers. Record heat following record snowfalls are creating some interesting mud holes.

    First I have to admit Toyota's LSD VSC whatever traction control is as confusing as it gets - all from one button? - and good luck reading the manual on the subject.... I wonder who was on LSD???

    Anyhow I come around the corner and two oilfield hands stuck in a north face mud hole. Pulled one out, that was originally trying to pull out the other. He tried to get other and got stuck again. Eventually pulled them both out.

    That 5.7 screams with power. I wish eveyone could get a chance to experience such driving pleasure instead of playing "get unstuck from the mudhole" games. What is it about silverado drivers? They are always stuck and high centered, and still they love their Chevys as though they themselves are Chevys. Just good old boys with limited learning capacity? You Chevy guys are the best. Never change!

    I hope my dad does not read this.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    Ok, I could join the "bash" on Toyota for a 4 star crash test vs a 5 star. But I choose to take the high road and not be a hypocrite. Here is my opinion on crash test ratings;
    Do you really feel safer in a vehicle because it scored 5 stars instead of 4 in some goofy test where they crash a truck into an immoveable object? Personally, I consider ALOT of things when researching and buying a new truck, including safety features. But one I do not even enter into the equation is a crash test rating, unless the vehicle scored extremely miserably. Bottom line is today's vehicles...ALL of them, are much safer than they were even 10 yrs ago, let alone 20-30 yrs ago. Also, I do not plan on crashing into any bridge abutments any time soon. I base my buying decision on things that affect my drive every single time I get behind the wheel. Like comfort, amenities, power (for towing, not racing), and for appearance. IMO (in case you Toyota fans don't understand the acronym, it means "In My Opinion") The GM's equal (power) or far exceed (Everything else) the Tundra in ALL of those categories. So, you can count crash test stars and airbags til your face turns blue, but the GM is still the better truck... IMO (did I say it enough, or am I going to get lambasted again?)
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    NOWHERE in my last posts did I mention reg. cab, double
    cab, extended cab, yada cab in any of my posts of
    the tindra or other brands involved in the crash tests
    either in a blog, post, pic, or video in which the tindra
    only scored 4 stars IN FRONTAL crash tests.
    Sure funny the Brand X trucks scored 5 stars tho huh?????

    V-MAX.......Don't worry they will be doing the pile on
    soon enough! I think this 4 star business has them
    shocked about that new "wondertruck".......... :cry:

    BTW: I'm dying for the initial dealer buildup in my area
    to get done! I want a new 2500 x-cab ! :shades:
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    I'm sure they will come up with some excuse and remain convinced that the almighty Tundra is still the God of all trucks and can do no wrong. Kinda like the T-100 and the first Tundra...right? After all, they received the same Hype when they came out to take over the world too.

    I saw the new 2500 x-cab at the auto show yesterday. Awesome truck!! Huge though, but if you need an HD, it is an awesome truck. But it ain't no Tundra...(psst, between you and I, this is a GOOD thing) ;)
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    Wow- I didn't mean for you to take this forum so seriously. You've taken a defensive stance and approach. Lighten up.

    I accept your apology, ggesq. Just flame me again if you are ever itchin' for another whuppin'. I'd be happy to deliver one. Again.

    This conversation is actually off topic, (your 35 years of blah blah blah and oil changes) maybe we should get back to the comparison?

    BTW we are on topic. We are comparing the various aspects of the two trucks. This includes regular maintenance items such as oil changes. That is the purpose of this forum.

    On another topic:

    I just returned from a hunting trip. Fuel economy on my 4WD 6.0L Silverado was 18.2 mpg overall. Most of the 335 miles was flat highway, 70 mph, cruise control engaged, a/c on. About 10% was mountain fwy., same 70 mph but no cruise control (I was passing a lot of other vehicles). The Instant Economy mode hovered between 17-19 mpg most of the way. Not bad, not bad at all for a powerful full size pickup. And, considering it isn't even broken in yet - still has less than 1,000 miles on the odo.

    I noticed that the Active Fuel Management (AFM) system really works. On the Driver Info. System (DIS) you can see it toggle back and forth between V-8 mode and V-4 mode on flat highway. Whenever you give the throttle the TINIEST pressure it goes right into V-8 mode. Same for climbing a slight grade in cruise control - goes right into V-8 mode. And like the GM hype says, it really is totally seamless in its operation. If your foot is off the gas (i.e. cruise control) you cannot feel it happen at all, and if your foot is on the throttle your can JUST BARELY feel it if you are paying attention. Amazing.

    Another thing I noticed. The calculated fuel economy on the DIS was EXACTLY the same as my calculation based on my fillup. That's good to know - I can trust the DIS as far as the Instant Economy and overall mpg modes.

    1offroader
  • 1offroader1offroader Member Posts: 208
    brazos

    gimme 30 seconds and I'll get your Tundra so stuck that it'll take a John Deere to yank it out and a flatbed to haul it home.

    Gettin' stuck isn't the fault of the truck, it's the driver. I've gotten stuck more times than I care to admit -in my Toyotas. But NEVER was it the fault of the trucks.

    1offroader
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    Yea..i have to have a 2500 ! GM don't offer a snowplow
    prep pk. in a 1500 x-cab 1/2 ton model.... only reg cab.
    Plus I tow 12k lbs and up so ANY 1/2 ton won't get it!

    Sure miss my 1/2 tons tho. They ride better and get better
    mpgs........ The price between them and the 3/4 tons are
    about the same anyhoo..............
    The 6.0 is hard on gas......But no choice in the matter
    for my needs!
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    You've got a lot of nerve! :mad:

    Who started things by saying "The Tundra is better looking in person than in pictures, but it's still ugly."

    Do comments get any more juvenile than that?

    Admit it. You posted to run down the Tundra and justify your purchase.

    I've gone out of my way to say the Silverado and Tundra are both the leaders of the pack, but I would prefer the Tundra.

    You are the most defensive poster here, and you don't need any salesmen because you had no intention of giving the Tundra a fair chance to earn your business, since you said this was your first time seeing the truck in person.

    If you really did any research, you would've at least spent some time with the truck, than made a purchase decision.

    You can run down the Tundra all you want, but I'll run down your post when they reveal your deception.

    Your post will get some respect when you can be straight with the forum. When that will be is anyone's guess.

    That's my opinion. Now that I've said that, you cannot respond to it. I have immunity! :blush:

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    Who started things by saying "The Tundra is better looking in person than in pictures, but it's still ugly."

    Do comments get any more juvenile than that?


    So, it's "Juvenile" to express my OPINION that the Tundra is butt-spanking ugly?

    Admit it. You posted to run down the Tundra and justify your purchase.

    My post may have run down the Tundra, but again, I am expressing my opinion. You are free to agree or disagree. As for justifying my decision??? That is the stupidest thing I have heard yet. Why would I need to justify my decision to anyone, let alone a bunch of strangers on the internet??? Give me a break. And how am I the most defensive poster here? Give me an example please? Oh, and I don't need you to respect my post, I really could give a flying $#@% what you think of my posts. If you don't like them, leave them (and me) alone and move on or write your own. Please stop replying to my posts, I have no interest in talking to you any longer. Thank You.
  • brazosboogerbrazosbooger Member Posts: 9
    Wow offroader goes on a hunting trip and reports only paved miles, just what kind of hunting trip is that?

    I can one up you here - I could get your John Deere stuck in 29 seconds and you would have to get a rig up truck with a 425 cat to pull it out.

    Who are you kidding - "not the trucks fault?" There are numerous factors involved, but one definite variable is what truck you are driving.

    BTW my caprice classic handles rough dirt roads better than any truck ever will, but my tundra blows Silverados away.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Only way you can do that in a forum post is to load it somewhere on the web and link to it. We can't attach files here, unfortunately.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • concreteconcrete Member Posts: 2
    re: vmax2007 strange how we think alike. i visited the chicago auto show last month and came up with similar results. I own a concrete business and i went to the show for the sole purpose of researching new trucks. One tundra had a plow hooked up and since snowplowing is my winter business it cought my attention. Something was wrong. Very wrong. The boss plow attatched was in the down position and the undercarraige for the plow was less than four inches from the ground. I asked the smiling Toyota rep to raise the plow, and after a moment or two, he agreed. Now the undercarrage was less than an inch from the ground. Not good. Definately not good. A look inside and I found the same things you found, cheap, cluttered plastic. Certainly not a good first impression. My son and I started asking questions about the ability of the truck to plow snow, then we asked about the frame issue and the dash. Flustered, he said "if you came over to bash the truck, then just leave". I told him that was not my intention, and that I need to replace three of my trucks this year and I merely needed to research. His reply, "chevy sent you over here, did'nt they?". He then grumbled something, and walked away. I'm buying silverado's
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    Here's what I will admit to: lack of knowledge re: the GMT900. However, this forum is helping alot.

    After owning three different Chevy trucks and the horrid ownership experience associated with two of them, I've washed my hands clean from GM. From what I can see, Toyota has finally taken this segment seriously with the 07. Is it enough to dethrone the benchmark (and I use the term loosely) in the class? Probably not but the 07 Tundra's introduction is good for all as it will raise the level of competition between all these companies.

    Do me a favor, don't respond to me and I won't respond to you. I've wasted enough keystrokes on you. That would be the best you can do at this point.
  • pmuscepmusce Member Posts: 132
    "I've gone out of my way to say the Silverado and Tundra are both the leaders of the pack, but I would prefer the Tundra."

    DrFill, the above comment is your opinion as well. Sorry, the Tundra is nowhere near the leader of the pack. You have to be playing in the HD arena and provide a Diesel to even be considered the leader in the full size truck market. You, like all other Tundra lovers of course ignore this. When Toyota decides to pony up and deliver all the goods, then you can make your argument.
  • geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    I don't think your gonna find too many REAL plows that
    will work on the 07 tundra.
    From pics I have seen of the frame there seems to be no
    frame "horns" sticking out from the wheels forward.
    So where to hang the push bar?????

    Hopefully not on the front clip. One hit on a hard drift
    or other obstruction would bend the front clip like a
    beercan !

    Will have to check the Boss, Western, and Fisher site to
    see which rig will fit....Prob. a tiny 7 footer !!!

    I would hate to worry about plowing related driveline
    breakage while under warranty. Since yota doesn't offer
    a snow plow prep. pkg. I could see voided warranty issues
    (the same with other brands w/o plow prep.)

    Time will tell eh?

    If your a plowhead check out:
    http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums
    Lots of good info. and such over there !!!!!!!
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    The point is Tundra is the best Half-Ton.

    Silverado is best at HD/Diesel.

    Oops....wait a minute!

    2008 Super Duty! 24k towing. Curses! :mad:

    Ok....Chevy can be 2nd Best at 1/2 ton. 2nd Best at HD/Diesel.

    I guess when Chevy "ponies up", funny you should mention that, then you can make your argument. ;)

    DrFill
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Member Posts: 46
    DrFill,

    Go find a dictionary and look up the word "Hypocrite". You may find your mugshot next to the definition. You accuse me of making opinion related unsubstantiated claims about the GM? What about...
    The point is Tundra is the best Half-Ton. ???

    This is your OPINION!!! Which you have every right to state here, but don't bash me when I state mine.

    BTW...did I fall asleep for a year? Is it 2008 already??? Hmm, I am going to have go to my local Ford dealer tomorrow to check out the new 2008 SD's.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Wow, this site is becoming hot and oh so irrelevant. People talking about whuppin' other people, flamers, etc. etc. Sometimes I think I'm back in High School or at Ft Bragg waiting orders for Vietnam.

    Guys, we're comparing two half ton trucks. All this talk about fully boxed frames, snow plowing, construction site retrieval work, etc. while interesting is totally irrelevant. Half ton trucks aren't used for that. Half ton trucks are used for commuting, Home Depot runs, and maybe light delivery work for a retail store (what few are left after WalMart blew in) that hasn't already switched to compact trucks for deliveries as the auto parts stores have.

    So where does this leave us? Both are competent trucks with a few differences that might sway someone either way: interior and exterior styling, the opportunity to buy optional air bags and a sunrood, rear axle traction control devices, maybe the length of the option list and pricing.

    Ah, pricing. The Tundra is about 4K more than a Silverado. Maybe more if you buy through the cartel that is SET. If you are like most guys, you keep a truck until it wears out and so resale is not a consideration. If you are like most Americans you have a slighly negative savings rate. That is you spend more than you make. Moreover, if you are like most people these days you had better be saving for retirement because no one else s going to be looking out for you. That 4K you saved by buying the GMC could mean big bucks down the road if thrown into a bond fund like the Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund (don't laugh, bond funds yield 6%) for the next 15 years.
This discussion has been closed.