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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado
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Comments
Some of the best jobs in the US auto industry are not the UAW factory jobs, but the design, engineering, and R&D jobs that are NON-UAW salaried workers. The fact is that Toyota does much of this work outside the country. There is a small tech center in Ann Arbor, MI, but no where near as big as even the DCX Tech Center in Auburn Hills, MI, much less Ford's campus in Dearborn, or GM's in Detroit and Warren, MI. My numbers include salaried and hourly jobs, non-union and union. The source for those numbers are the individual companies, Automotive News, and the AIAM.
The 70% number is as of 2005 (source = Automotive News).
The first transplant was built by Honda in Marysville, OH and started producing Accords in 1981. That's why I started from 1980.
YOU (not me) brought up that Toyota is such an American company. I'm just trying to show the point that the Big 3 are still (BY FAR) the most American companies, producing the most vehicles, employing the most people, and paying the most taxes in this country.
Yes, Toyota is building plants here. One of their plants got such a large tax break that EACH JOB costs the state $360,000 in tax incentives.
Both the Tundra and the Silverado are great products. My whole point here is that you CANNOT say the Tundra is "more American" than the GM trucks. More parts are coming from overseas. Yes, this is true. It's part of globalization. Ultimately, more $$ of a Tundra's sale go to Japan than $$ of GM truck. That's a fact.
I have facts to compare, as you can see. And the facts support my point.
Trailer hitch........aka Trailering Platform aka class 4
or whichever weight rated hitch PLATFORM that is installed. No vehicle mfr. gives you the actual
"hitch" aka ball and leveling bar assembly...........
Locker, Posi aka limited slip nowadays.
Limited slip is preferred because a true locker does
not allow for unequal wheel turning (like rounding a
corner) without axle hop or chatter.
The best true locker applications are mainly for drag racing.
No light truck (or car) mfrd.that I know of has a true locking rearend anymore.
Back in the dark ages mfrs. had their own trade names:
Safe-t-trac, Traction lock
Sorry to confuse you...........
Toyota Tundra with TOW PACKAGE (which is standard equipment on V8 models) includes the following:
"V8 Tow Package [2]
Heavy-duty tow hitch receiver, 7-pin connector, Trailer brake controller prewire, Supplemental transmission cooler, TOW/HAUL mode (not available with 4.7L V8), Automatic-transmission temperature gauge, 4.100 rear axle ratio (on 4.7L models) or 4.300 rear, axle ratio (on 5.7L models)"
http://www.toyota.com/tundra/models.html
I know you may soil your computer actually (gasp) LOOKING at the info on Toyota's website. But if Toyota says the V8 models include a hitch receiver, I don't know why you guys continue to foist the crap about not having a hitch.
"Locker, Posi aka limited slip nowadays.
Limited slip is preferred because a true locker does
not allow for unequal wheel turning (like rounding a
corner) without axle hop or chatter.
The best true locker applications are mainly for drag racing.
No light truck (or car) mfrd.that I know of has a true locking rearend anymore. "
Again, too funny. There is a BIG difference between a locker rear-end and a limited-slip. I'm sure that others will tell you this as well. Just how towing inclined ARE YOU if you don't know this?
BTW - The new GM's DO HAVE an automatic locker rear-end rather than a limited slip.
tundras 5.7 vs. 4.8 figures............
Lets do 4x4 reg. cab. short box with the 4.7 and 4.8 engines
tundra: 8200 lbs.
Silverado: 8900 lbs.
RORR:
I DO know how to tow and have a Chevy 2500 to do it with !
You see I ACTUALLY OWN a truck !!!!!!!!!!!
My camper, boat, or watercraft (I would refer to them as
"jetskis" but I must remember to be "literal" so NOT to
confuse anyone) need to be towed.
And yes I know what a true LOCKING REAR is.........
Even they are not installed in pass.cars or light trucks
anymore...........
Edmunds is wrong.
Edmunds is not the final source for information. There is an outside possibility their data is not completely up-to-date ( they are missing all the information on the 5.7L introduced last month )...Hellooo. Again have you been asleep for a year or two. You really didn't know about any of this?
The Toyota website is the source. It won't bite you or leave a scarlet letter on your forehead if you click on the Toyota site. It's amazing what you'll find on the competition's website, such as the fact that GM has taken away the top towing capacity from the Silvy and given it to the Sierra. It's made the Silvy very middle of the pack.
Also note the PRICES AND the Features that are STANDARD on
the Silverado and either the tundra
doesn't offer or must be purchased on a more expensive "package".....................
please explain this gibberish.
Here is what the Silverado is lacking in standard equipment
6 spd tranny
Max Trailering Package ( in the Sierra not the Silvy )
auto LSD
Side and Curtain airbags
Stability control / Trac control
Brake assist
Tailgate damper
When you add all this to bring the Silvy near the Tundra ( the Silvy still can't tow more than 9000# ) the pricing tops out around $35000 vs $33000 for the Tundra. The Sierra with similar equipment to the Tundra ends up around $37000 vs $33000 for the Tundra.
This is going to be a tough fight..rebates coming soon on the GM twins.
The new Tundra's with the biggest rearend in the field is just hitting the street, fields this week. Go drive one. You will be shocked.
If you need to tow more than what's shown in that chart then you need a diesel. For the present in the 1/2-ton segment the Tundra is the Boss in just about every performance category. The others are close ( Sierra ), in the middle ( Silvy /Titan ) or not in the same class ( F150 / Ram ).
The GM/Isuzu DuraMax diesel with the Allison tranny is Boss in the diesel category.
Yes. The Tundra 1/2ton truck doesn't tow as much as the competition's 1 ton versions. SURPRISE!!!!
"However, if you want to compare the "TUNDRA" with the "SILVERADO", "F-SERIES", "RAM", etc, you have to compare ALL models in the lineup. Otherwise, offer the disclaimer that you are comparing 1/2 ton models ONLY!!!"
Fair enough.
The new '07 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra compares very well with the new '07 1/2 GMC Sierra/Chevy Silverado. The new '07 1/2 ton Toyota Tundra is substantially better than the 1/2 ton offerings from Ford and Dodge.
Disclaimer: these claims only apply to 1/2 ton models. Expect similar claims when Toyota releases HD versions of the Tundra. If someone wants a 1 ton or diesel truck NOW, they can skip the Toyota dealer.
"If you want to compare gas engines, both Ford and GM offer gas engines with FAR MORE TORQUE than the Tundra, and can be had in a 3/4 ton 2wd standard cab, not just a Dually (ALSO, something Toyota doesn't offer)"
I thought we were comparing 1/2 ton versions? Are you claiming that only 3/4 ton and above are "real" trucks?
FYI - the 1/2 ton market in the this country is HUGE. The Toyota Tundra compares VERY favorably with other HALF TON trucks. Personally, I think it would behoove the domestic fans if they pressured their favorite makes to BUILD A BETTER HALF TON, rather than pointing out Toyota doesn't make a 3/4 or 1 ton.
What will be your defense when Toyota DOES begin offering 3/4 and 1 ton models? That they don't build something equivalent to a F450?
I think that the detroiters have intentionally let the 1/2 ton segment 'get stale' over the last 10 years because they had it all to themselves essentially. Hey if you want a 'real truck' get an HD diesel. These are also much more profitable for the 3 with a diesel markup of $5000 - $8000 over their top price for a 1/2-tonner.
This letting a segment 'get stale' situation sounds awfully familiar to the midsized and compact auto situation of the 80's and 90's. 'Well these segments aren't that profitable anyway so we'll just let the Asians have them.'
So do GM/F/D have the will, the incentive and the funds to fight over this 1/2 ton segment or will they retreat to the HD segment? GM has two winners with its T900's. Ford and Dodge need injections of Viagra ( cash ) and backbone to stay the course try to leap over the four above them.
GM has two engines ( 6.0L & 6.2L ) that approach or exceed the Tundra 5.7L. Howwever for now it seems that they are limiting the availability of both these engines in the new T900's. By doing this they are making the 5.3L the workhorse to fight the battle against the 5.7L Tundra engine.
In another forum here back in the Fall a poster who worked in GM's heavy duty plant noted that since 2001 GM has moved away from making the 6.0L engines toward more DuraMax diesels. GM might be able to drop an 8.0L into a few vehicles but that's not representative of what the average buyer could drop into any store and buy on a moments notice.
I don't see the point about the Tundra being one model vs three from the others. It only competes in the 1/2 ton segment ( now ). No one is saying that the new Tundra is comparable to the HD vehicles. I think that all that's being said is that the 1/2 ton segment now means a truck with a tow rating of 8000-11000# and a Payload rating of 1200-2000#. In this range the Tundra is the performance leader.
Now if Toyota has discovered a small vein of buyers that want a 1/2 ton truck that does more than the 'usual suspects', a group of buyers who were being forced into HD vehicles at a $5000-$8000 premium, then it may have success mining this small profitable subsegment.
If this subsegment has been forced into 3/4 ton HD diesels because the 'usual suspects' cutoff capability around 7500# of towing and 1500# of payload then the Tundra might be able to save some of these users $5000-$10000 by staying with a 'super 1/2 tonner'. Ditto the Sierra.
...where a lot of posts went, they went good-bye. As promised.
The subject here is Tundra vs Silverado. If you have other things to discuss, we have forums for those subjects. If you can't discuss the topic at hand in a civil manner, then please log out, take a deep breath, and calm down.
If the name calling persists, then we take stronger measures.
kcram - Pickups Host
Remember, the 5.7L isn't the only engine available in the Tundra. It too comes at a hefty premium over the base engines.
1 ton
That one is that 1 ton one now? Who is that factory trickin with that one now? Is them new tundra ones full size? If that one is 1 ton now, and them tundra ones is 1/2 ton, them ones sure seem small next to them big3 ones. Has any folks really seen them new tundra ones? Any pictures of them tundra ones up next to a big3 one? That 1 ton one sure don't look full size now. Can you get that flat bed on them tunda ones? That flat bed sure is lookin good for farm workin and such. We got a flat bed on that 52, and it works good for haulin. Good luck on this one now!
The 1985:
1)blown head gasket (22RE engine)
2)noisy valves (not an actual probem, just annoying as all get out)
When I sold it, it had 90K mi.
The 1992:
1)Head gaskets replaced (v-6, done under factory recall)
When the dealer did the work they buggered up a skid plate bolt and a pulley. This took 3 separate trips (and lots of time and nastygram letters to the dealer) to resolve.
2)Switch replaced on the transfer case to shift into 4WD. About $400 ($50 parts + $350 labor)
3)Transmission shift plate replaced ($250)
4)Steering tie rod replaced (factory recall)
5)Horrible screeching noise when the steering wheel is turned fully either way (not a major actual problem but very annoying).
6)Cooling fan completely broke off of the pulley. I was very lucky it didn't completely waste the radiator. This damage almost cost me an expensive hunting trip in addition to the repair cost.
Keep in mind this all occurred before the odo reached 75K mi.
Again, both of these vehicles were maintained impeccably and were never abused or even worked very hard.
The point I'm making is that some people seem to worship at the Toyota quality altar. Would I buy another Toyota? Heck yes! But I have a realistic view of what Toyota is capable of building. I also know enough about Toyota that I wouldn't buy a Tundra with an entirely new engine AND transmission. I'd wait a couple years. In my personal experience Toyota ranks 'fair to O.K.' in reliability, far from the 'excellent' that I seem to read a lot about. And, the dealer repair experience has been a decidedly a mixed bag.
Say what you want, but at least with the Silverado the basic engine design has been around the block a time or two. The 4-speed auto trans also seems to get criticized for not being a 5-speed or 6-speed. But guess what? It's a reliable proven design. I'll take a 4-speed that works any time over a 17-speed that doesn't. I'm old enough to remember the good old days when the only options were a Turbo Hydramatic 3-speed or a 2-speed Powerglide. That Turbo Hydro 400 won a lot of races! Somehow the Republic survived with 2-speeds and 3-speeds. A good 4-speed? I'm in clover!
I made up my mind that if a U.S. maker ever offered a truck with the features I wanted I would buy it. I WANT to buy American, but I also don't want to waste my money. Chevy finally offered it with the new Silverado. This is no guarantee of course. If the Silverado doesn't measure up I'll sell it and maybe go back to Toyota for another 20 years. Are you reading this Detroit????
tundras 5.7 vs. 4.8 figures............
This statement is false because you didn't do your homework, I did
Note that I stated 'Big V8's'
The values stated reflect the towing capacities of ( respectively )..
Tundra 5.7L
Silverado 6.0L standard towing
Sierra 6.0L Max Trailering package
Ford 5.4L
Dodge 5.7L HEMI
Titan 5.6L
...all the values are from each manufacturer's website or brochure.
You are WAY off base - again - and just got picked off.
So, if there are other concerns with this truck, we should work on that. I would be interested in seeing whether or not the ride quality is truly as good as the others, or whether it bounces around like older trucks...
They received 9 new Tundras yesterday. I looked at the 5 they had out front plus the one in the showroom. All models were V8 equipped (4 with the 4.7l, 2 with the 5.7l).
EVERY ONE HAD A RECEIVER HITCH.
In addition, I checked the window sticker. Every window sticker listed the "Tow Package" (including receiver hitch) as STANDARD EQUIPMENT. For the reading impaired, that means it is "factory equipped".
No, I didn't hitch up a bunch of tobaccy wagons to see how they hauled.....you might have to check out www.toothlesswonders.com to find out the answer to that question....
go to straight info
the tundra vs. the competition.
go to straight info
then tundra vs. the competition.
Plus--I don't care where it is built...the bottom line is if you buy a foreign product the end profit goes to Japan...
I have seen and driven all 5 competitors in this segment ... all with factory hitches. There is no comparison. The other four ( excluding the Sierra - not present ) ware far outclassed in every category.
Grow up.
Plus--I don't care where it is built...the bottom line is if you buy a foreign product the end profit goes to Japan...
Here's the problem. You didn't do enough investigation in your research usa... Yes the Silverado can tow up to 10200# but in 2007 on the T900 model you cant buy that vehicle!!!!!
You can only buy it as a Sierra!!!
The answer is tricky but I'll leave it to you to discover why the Silverado is limited to about 8500#. You're right on concerning the payloads.
good site.
Please post something intelligent or at least in 21st century English. People just don't talk like that, bud.
If you are just trolling -- find a better use of your time. Have a good day.
I didn't have time for a test drive; hopefully I'll get to do that next time. Everything on the vehicle felt pretty solid. The tail-gate assist was pretty good and I don't think I've seen a radiator as large as the one it has except on larger 1 ton trucks. The engine bay is very well laid out as well. It seems like the Tundra has finally grown up in a really big way!
also, take a look at the ad on the left. he hit the nail right on the head. hey framer, how's Franklin doing?
i found this which even has some references to 'edmunds'.
1 ton try #2
Oh..yeah..my mom comes by with her 2005 Nissan Titan Crew 4x4 to pick the chain saw and tools at the end each day. She doesn't want to get her $30K truck dirty with firewood.