Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

locke2c · October 2001

Juice,

If your wif... ah, I mean the unmentioned family member, managed to high center the Forester with one wheel off the ground it's very likely it would be stuck as well.

Even on a newer scoob with a rear LSD, if you float a front tire you're probably stuck. The viscous center differential can't hold enough torque to move the vehicle when one driveshaft is seeing infinite slip.

-Colin

ateixeira · October 2001

She... I mean whoever did that couldn't, because it has much more ground clearance. Her 626 is less than 5" off the ground in some places.

Maybe we should get a VDC just to cover all types of conditions. ;-)

-juice

kens · October 2001

I thought piston slap was limited to the 2.5L DOHC Phase I engines (MY97-99 on the OB, MY98 on the Forester and RS) using the shortened (aka. skirtless) piston skirts.

Ken

armac13 · October 2001

that was my understanding too.

Ross

hondafriek · October 2001

I had that problem with Continental tires, turned that two of them had flat spots, apparently it is a known fault of Continental tires, my dealer advised against them so I replaced the two damaged ones with Michilins.

I sold the car they were on shortly after so I have no knowledge of how the two remaining continentals have held up, I hope this info is of some help in addressing your problem, ask your tire installer to check for flat spots on the tires, if they have, balancing will not cure the problem they have to be replaced.

Cheers Pat.

nematode · October 2001

Anyone know of a shop (non-dealer) that works on Subarus near St. Louis? The dealers here are scaring me.

dukephoto · October 2001

I brought the VDC with 1800 miles(not bad for 2 1/2 weeks) in to Sharret Subaru in Hagerstown Md to change the oil over to Mobil 1.
While there I asked the guy who serviced the car if he had heard about the brake shim fix for brake squeals. I also mentioned the reprogramming of the ECM for the cold start problem some of us have. He had heard of neither of them, and didn't know about any shims or ECM problems. He asked where I had heard about them- "On the Internet??"
He said he had seen no service bulletins on either one.
Maybe I'll print a few posts from the board and bring them in for him when I switch over to Redline for the tranny. Or get him to subscribe to the board.

pattim3 · October 2001

Have your dealer call us. He is right about a bulletin not being issued yet on the shims. It's still in the works. But the shims should be available to him.

Since the shims are to eliminate an "annoyance" and are not for a safety defect or for a mechanical breakdown concern (service program), I doubt that there will be any type of notification program (recall).

Just let your dealer know that you want them and they should be taken care of at no cost.

Remember, this is for a specific noise concern, not a brake problem, so make sure your dealer has the opportunity to diagnose the situation before you ask for the shims. Safety first!

Thanks!

Patti

mikenk · October 2001

Patti,
I have the brake squeek on my 2001 VDC. It really doesn't annoy me much, but it is loud. Someone commented that the shims will or might actually shorten the brake life. Can you enlighten me as to what the shims really do?

anybody,
I have had to add a small amount of coolant a couple of times over 6000 miles to keep the level between low and high. Is this normal? I don't do that on my other cars, but the Subie plenum seems to be pretty small; it only takes a cup or so to move the level from low to high.

Thanks,
Mike

ateixeira · October 2001

I've never had to add any, but I did a flush of the system at 30k miles.

Do you notice any leaks? Any wet spots under the engine in the AM?

-juice

paisan · October 2001

Do these shims work on '97 legacies as well? or is this a VDC thing only?

-mike

miksmi · October 2001

Re: miksmi Oct 9, 2001 12:09pm

Ken, you are correct; thanks for catching that. That's what I get for rushing. Apologies for the misinformation.

To repeat Ken: Piston slap was limited to the 2.5L DOHC Phase I engines (MY97-99 on the OB, MY98 on the Forester and RS) using the shortened (aka. skirtless) piston skirts.

..Mike

paisan · October 2001

Anyone out there know what is involved in the head gasket replacement on a flat 6 engine? It looks like im gonna be getting another XT6, but a 5-speed w/110K and a blown headgasket. I just want to know what kind of cash outlay I'll need to do to it to get it going. Then I'll have twins.

Probably make the 5-speed into my auto-Xer, maybe even a trailer queen, and the AT as a daily driver.

-mike

ateixeira · October 2001

Well, there are two head gaskets because of the H layout. If the gasket is the only problem, and the heads themselves are OK, you won't spend too much.

I'm hardly an expert on the subject, but I did help a buddy do a valve job on his Acura once, and removing those heads was a simple job (of course it's much easier since the heads stick up in the engine bay).

Tougher access will create more work for you.

-juice

bluesubie · October 2001

Call up Flemington. I'm sure they could probably give you a guesstimate of your costs.

Dennis

FrankMc · October 2001

It is noisy for 2-3 miles and then quiets down. So unless I have a wierd one, it is possible on 2.2 L engines as well. *Hey maybe it will break and then I will finally have my excuse to get a new one!*

Frank

paisan · October 2001

I'm not planning on doing them myself. I'll bring em to a mechanic, but the more complex it is, the more $ it'll cost me. Anyone want to buy the MX6, I *HAVE* to sell it now to free up parking spots...

-mike

ateixeira · October 2001

Sorry, I also already have a spare car. ;-)

And if I bought another used car, I think I'd get an SVX.

-juice

kens · October 2001

Perhaps a more accurate way to describe the Phase I DOHC piston slap is that it has been linked to the skirtless piston design. I guess it is possible, for some manufacturing tolerance issues, that piston slap occurs in other engine models as well.

Ken

leeduncan · October 2001

I think the machine you are thinking of is the Hunter GSP9700. Link below.

http://www.gsp9700.com/

HTH

Greg in IN

ateixeira · October 2001

That's the one. Thanks for the link! :-)

-juice

subaru_team · October 2001

FYI - the shims are only for 2001 MY Legacy vehicles that have a squeal in the morning when backing up for the first application.

I have not heard any complaints that the shims caused a shorter brake life, based on the vehicles we tested them out on.

There is already a shim on the pad, this is just a different designed shim that does not cause the harmonic noise.

Patti

perezc1 · October 2001

Here's the relevant update on my 1999 Forester: Message 3024 for details.

After pulling the plugs, the dealer decided to replace both cylinder heads. After a few days, the car was still car was consuming / burning oil at high rate - those still no sign of a leak - just missing oil. The dealer last week replaced the engine block! So far, so good on the oil problem. (they also replaced the clutch assembly and flywheel and installed a new radio - which suffered from a Big Gulp/ cup holder mishap.) The car is now back and we said goodbye to the cushy free rental.

Only difference is now the car seems to get worse gas mileage (19 mpg vs. 25 mpg before the engine work, and it doesn't seems as peppy). I've heard that this is fairly common and that the car will "rebound" though the mechanic thinks it's our imagination.

kens · October 2001

Chances are that the dealer had to unplug your battery while working on the engine. By doing this, your ECU was reset and the engine is running rich until it learns your driving habits. Watch your milage over 2-3 tanks of gas -- it should improve.

BTW, how much oil were you burning before the repair?

Ken

juliewen · October 2001

I did not have a "learning-curve" for the ECU related to gas mileage when my 2000 Forester was new. I would hope it is tuned up properly after such a large job, but would assume it must have been. I would think that this "learning" of your driving habits would be a subtle thing.
How are the emissions now? I also wonder what your oil consumption was at it's worst. I am having oil consumption problems as well. Maybe you have seen some of my posts recently on this for forum.
It sounds odd that the engine block (rings) wasn't ruled out as a source of the problem before the valves were replaced. It is possible that both were at fault but unlikely.
Do you know the results of the compression test of the engine now? They should be within 14-15 lbs. of each other. Some rebuilds are better than others. Was the work done at your local dealership or by Subaru. In other words; if the engine was rebuilt at the factory and then put back in th car at the dealership, I would feel better about tolerances. But it doesn't sound like this is the case.

I have a 2000 Forester with 31k miles on it and I am dealing with a 1 quart per 2000 mile consumption issue now and it looks like I am getting some results from SOA. I am glad to see that they did try to fix your car. Hopefully it will be fine and you will get the gas-mileage back up were it should be.
Scott

dukephoto · October 2001

Patti,

Please read my post on the VDC board (it is not really a maintenance or repair issue and belongs on that board) but is something that needs to be brought to your attention.

thanks-------- DUKEPHOTO

ateixeira · October 2001

Chris: glad to hear the dealer went all out like that. Sweet.

Remember, you gotta break here in again. Mileage will be about 2mpg worse until you do. Keep it under 4k rpm, you have a brand new engine.

-juice

locke2c · October 2001

quote:
Do you know the results of the compression test of the engine now? They should be within 14-15 lbs. of each other. Some rebuilds are better than others. Was the work done at your local dealership or by Subaru. In other words; if the engine was rebuilt at the factory and then put back in th car at the dealership, I would feel better about tolerances. But it doesn't sound like this is the case.

I too would opine that most dealers cannot put together the shortblock as well as is done in Gunma. Some are exceptionally talented, and I can't imagine any dealer that wouldn't have at least one mechanic very competent in such matters... but again, I have enormous respect for the Japanese machinists on the assembly line.

Regarding the original post about mileage and pep, surely you're going easy on the engine and allowing it to break in? And I don't mean just following the letter of the manual and not the intent-- when they say keep it under 4k, they don't mean it's OK to go wide-open throttle from idle to 4,000 and then back off... high load should be avoided too. (WOT, towing, severe mountain roads, high speed)

-Colin

ateixeira · October 2001

Did the gear oil swap on our 626 yesterday. The tranny service light is off for now, fingers are crossed.

That thing took more than 3 quarts. I had to go back and buy more. The Miata only held a little under 2. Then again, the 626 houses the front diffy, while the Miata has a seperate, rear diffy.

-juice

hciaffa · October 2001

What can we Forester owners do that suffer from this terrible brake squeal. My wives Forester has done this since it was purchased in 99 and continues to do it. Squeals terrible in the morning or after sitting and cooling down. Been to the dealer many times but they have no fix or can't help. Any suggestions. Can the the Forester owners take advantage of this Brake Shim as well. HELP!

evilizard · October 2001

Well you can always take matters into your own hands and get some of that brake pad goop. It is kind of like toothpaste, you goop up the back of your brake pad to reduce squeeling. If the squeel is caused by the harmonics vibration in the pad/shim system you need to change the frequency by changing shape or mass.

Of course you could always try a 3rd party brake pad with a different content.

nygreg · October 2001

Went to a Toyota/Subaru dealer at lunch to pick up some filters. While there I asked about the torque spec for the wheels and oil plug for my Sienna. "Oh, just make it snug. We don't use torque wrenches" was the reply. When I pushed, they said they weren' sure. I asked them if they were concerned about warping the rotors. "That won't happen" was the reply. So I asked to check with a mechanic and finally I got "around 80 ft/lbs" for the wheels, nothing for the oil plug. Granted, this was the parts counter I was talking to, but, I think I will keep my cars away from them.

Greg

kens · October 2001

Well, I knew it was just a matter of time. I had my original clutch replaced at 23K miles back in July '99 and for about two years and 40K miles it was running fine. Starting about two months ago, I began noticing that 1st gear engagements have been getting increasingly rougher. The clutch chatters not only on the well-known cold morning starts but even after my Forester has warmed up -- it's most noticeable when I'm rolling ever so slightly and try and go into 1st.

So, my question is should I stay stock or go aftermarket when the inevitable end comes? I'm a little wary of the stock clutch given my experience so I'm leaning towards something like a Clutchmasters Stage 1. I don't need a heavy-duty racing clutch nor do I want a heavy clutch pedal feel -- just something that will last a little longer. Any suggestions?

Ken

locke2c · October 2001

ACT street. Uses a stock (Exedy) clutch disc and an uprated but not ridiculously strong pressure plate.

My chatter has been much better ever since the end of last winter, but if it comes back in force when it gets cold I will finally install my Clutchnet 6 puck clutch... got it from B-Spec USA around March but the stock has been behaving so well I've not bothered. I sure don't make enough power to necessitate it!

-Colin

stevek · October 2001

after my 30K service, which included a brake fluid change I think the pedal is soft and goes down to far. The fluid is up to the marked level. According to the service advisor this is "normal". What can they "screw" up while changing the fluid, can air get in? or is it done by machine/reverse vacum?

hciaffa · October 2001

Like I mentioned nothing has worked so far. Dealer has tried everything and I even tried the brake anti-squeal goop by Bendix, nada. I even went to Pep Boys just to have them check it out and when asked what was the matter they even told me that many Foresters as well as other Subaru models have this problem and they won't atempt to fix them. They also stated that as of yet no third party manufacturer has made the brake repair kits for Foresters yet so they can't work on them.

kens · October 2001

Any reason why you recommend the ACT street clutch vs. the Clutchmasters? I've read about some i-clubbers having problems with installing too beefy a clutch -- I think it was the ACT set up.

So what did you do to make the chatter go away? A little slip-induced glazing perhaps? ;-)

Ken

wmiller4 · October 2001

There may still be some air in the brake lines.

Have it looked at.

mikezak · October 2001

Last week my Subaru Dealer in Waukasha, WI told me that SOA was to have the shims to correct the break squeal -- but they were late. They were to be at dealers by Sept, and here it is October. He did not have an explanation for the delay?

Patti, can you help?

bg18947 · October 2001

My wife wants me to try to improve the lighting on her 2000 GT Ltd. I'm debating whether I should get PIAA Xtreme 55W replacement bulbs or if I should mount their 35w 001 Solitaire's in the bumper. The lightbulb swap is easy, but I've got PIAA Platinum 55W bulbs in my Odyssey and didn't notice much of an improvement over stock bulbs (it's only slightly brighter and whiter). I also have PIAA 1000x on the Odyssey and they help a lot. I can't figure out where to route the cabling at the firewall in the Legacy if I am going with the accessory lamps.

Also, does anyone know where the light adjustment screws are for the current generation Legacy/Outback headlamps? Could't tell without dismantling the unit. Which volume of the service manuals covers the electrical wiring such as the headlamps. Is there a grommet in the firewall specifically for running your own accessories through?

Thanks!

pattim3 · October 2001

Mike - the dealer should be able to order the shims now. If not, call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 and our Rep. can straighten it out. Since the information was just released, it just may be a lag in getting it to the right person at the dealership.

Hugo - the squeel that this shim addresses is different than what I remember about your's. Also, this was something we were hearing about in the Legacy models with some frequency. I'll double check your case and see if anything can be done on Monday.

Thanks!

Patti

bluesubie · October 2001

BG - KenS took some pictures of stock vs. Hellas vs. Philips Vision Plus and the Vision Plus were slightly brighter.

Ken - Any idea what post your headlight comparison is? I would be interested in seeing it again because I'm considering upgrading my wife's OB lights as well.

Dennis

kens · October 2001

Here you go...

Vision Plus vs. Stock:

Vision Plus vs. Hella Premium:

<img src="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1013602&a=7966143&p=33242600">

bluesubie · October 2001

Thanks. Can you tell a difference in lighting distance on dark highways?

Dennis

kens · October 2001

Dennis,

Most definetly yes. I don't think the photos do the bulbs justice. The Vision Pluses are noticeably brighter and illuminate farther than regular H4s. The beam cut-off seem to be sharpter too. Those, in conjunction with my fogs, have been great for driving through the Sierras on moonless nights.

Ken

Karen_S · October 2001

The Edmunds.com Maintenance Guide is now available! Click on the link in Additional Resource box.

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

bluesubie · October 2001

in the fogs as well?

Oops, I think this should've been under Modifications. Oh well, at least we're not discussing Potato recipes. ;-)

Dennis

hypov · October 2001

don't forget that those are H4s in Ken's Forester.
Your wife's OB uses the same mediocre HB(?)s as in my '98 OB, and I don't think you would get the same result Ken got. Hence, the HID route which I took.

-Dave

bluesubie · October 2001

Owner's manual says HB5/9007. Is the wattage different?

Dennis

hypov · October 2001

nope, the wattage are the same 55/65
I bought a pair of "xenon gas charged" bulbs and they looked to be brighter but still can't compare with my mom's OBS. Them OEM H4 threw better light than the OB's OEM or the new bulbs I'd bought.
Drove my OB on the Palisade (night) a few weeks ago and I think I out ran the HB5 @ 50mph :-)

-Dave

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