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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • forester4alforester4al Member Posts: 3
    My 2001 Forester developed an intermittent problem ~3 months ago where the car would feel like it was losing power and about to stall out while trying to drive at a constant speed (45-65 MPH). Upon acceleration, this stuttering would stop but would start again when again trying to maintain a constant speed. I put on the cruise control when this was happening and the problem persisted, so I know it's not my leg inadvertently shaking the gas pedal.
    The problem would almost always go away after stopping the car for a while (usually overnight) but has returned every few weeks. I switched to premium gas from a different station, still does it. I took the car to the dealer and they couldn't reproduce the problem. The Check engine light has never come on, so they didn't know where to start. They checked for loose wires/hoses and ended up changing the Champion spark plugs which they said were "fouled out". Two days later, the problem returned.
    Any theories on what might be causing this? I'm taking it back in and I'd love to hear if this problem has happened to anyone else. It seems to be happening more frequently in the last 2-3 weeks.

    -Al
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Colin: Thanks for the pics -- very cool to see that stuff. I am totally amazed the engine ran at all with the cam out of phase by 180°. No way an inline engine would have been able to do this. Makes me wonder about the firing sequence and how the valves are timed in the boxer-4. Perhaps you have stumbled across something interesting. I bet a Subaru engineer could explain it to us.

    Al: I have heard about this problem on Foresters, here and on other forums. You are not the only one. Definitely call the Subaru 1-800 number and have them start a case. In other vehicles, I have seen this type of intermittant behavior caused by a bad ECU or a bad fuel pump. If it happens after a certain amount of driving (timewise) I would suspect the fuel pump. They do get warm after operating for a while.

    Craig
  • outback165outback165 Member Posts: 108
    Question:

    When I look in the owners manual for the 15K service, it is essentially an oil change and rotate and balance the wheels and tires. There are some "inspections" (ie steering, brake lines, etc) but as far as work to actually be done, that is all that is listed. My dealer wants to perform a $300 15,000 miles service. They tried to get me when I scheduled the appointment, and they just showed me one of my spark plugs and air filter and asked me whether I knew about Subaru's 15,000 mile service. Not that I knew what I was looking at, but the spark plug looked a helluva lot cleaner after 15K miles than my MG did after 3K!!!!!! Also, the air filter looked a little dusty. I confirmed in the owners manual that the plugs and air cleaner element on the H4 don't need to be changed until 30K. Does anyone have thoughts on this? (Obviously they don't just want to do a $25 oil change, but since the car was coming in for warranty work anyway...) Anyhow, they are leaving the plugs and using the air hose on the filter.

    Thanks all for your input.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dealers always try to push a little extra service on you, or a little sooner than scheduled. It's a profit center for them, but not really necessary.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    My dealer had 'their' recommended 15k service at $149 (!!!), which included what you mentioned above. At least they weren't pushy about it, I just told them to give me their standard oil/filter thing ($24), which includes a 20 point inspection. Sure all 'their' recommended service stuff is ok, but all that is necessary is what's in their normal oil/filter/20pt inspection.

    They also market it as 'Wisconsin Recommended Maintenance Schedule'.

    Profit with a capital P. As Juice said, not necessary, but can be done if you'd like them to.

    -Brian
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Glad you are more or less sorted out, you probably have found the coolant sensor by now, I have not checked the location on my car but are they not usually located in the rad.

    I agree with Craig it is amazing that the motor ran at all, I commend you on a very informative pictorial.

    cheers Pat.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Well I just changed the Titan over to Mobil one, I have just been champing at the bit to make the change to synthetic.

    Colin, BTW. any ideas on what caused the head gasket to blow? I presume you checked the head for warpage and burn pitting at the site of the blow.

    Cheers Pat.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    actually I haven't found it yet pat-- worked all day today and the best leads I got from the iClub were that it's near the front of the block and behind the p/s pump or alternator.

    bad news is I'd swear that's plugged in... bugger me. so I sent off a few emails asking for quotes on a new coolant temp sensor. (if I saw one I'd know for sure where it's at! lol)

    oh and this car is worse than starting my the camaro when cold, it's impossible to keep from stalling a few times right off. i'd rather fix it than get the knack for cold starting EFI manually. ;-)

    -Colin
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Pat,

    yep, the head and block seemed true with my equipment (engineer's ruler-- nothing fancy hehe) and the #4 chamber looked just like #2 so nothing odd there. plugs looked good, typical EFI plugs you know bone white but not melted and no spotting.

    could be that the head wasn't torqued properly from last year's fun. I didn't have the FSM torque values, I only had a haynes manual which was talking about a 97-98 SOHC 2.2L, which honestly is a near identical casting and the block is the same... but still I don't recall the torquing procedure to be quite the same in the haynes. it did have the hokey-pokey stuff but it just seems a little different as I recall.

    other idea-- bad gas resulted in detonation. I had a hesistation problem for a while in late summer until I reset the ECU and it was after a trip when my wife borrowed the car and fueled it who knows where and with who knows what grade of fuel. this car has definitely favored premium ever since the cam swap.

    third possibility, that was just a weak spot in the gasket due to manufacturing.

    whatever the case, I never saw any coolant leak at all until the day it was niagra falls and I'd lost 2 quarts on the drive home.

    -Colin
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    I don't recall exactly what mine cost but I'm pretty sure it was under $100, because until the 30k service I had never paid more than that. I'll take a look at my records when I get home.

    BTW, the 30k service cost me $241, so your dealer is, pardon the phrase, gouging you. Do yourself a favor and find another service facility.

    -wdb
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    wdb: $241? Mine ran something like $360, and that was the cheapest I found in the area (4-5 dealers). Aren't we both in PA? Am I getting stuck with the Philly area gouge?

    Ed
  • royallenroyallen Member Posts: 227
    Colin: My Haynes manual for the 2.2L locates the coolant temp sensor "in the coolant pipe under the right side intake manifold". I needed a mirror to find mine, somewhat behind the intake manifold - about half the size of a spark plug with a single wire connecting on the end.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I spent some time looking over the engine bay last night imagining what a nightmare job an in-situ head removal would be. My respect for the brave grows stronger!

    Colin, directly beneath the alternator are two senders attached to the block. The one by the EJ25 cast mark is round and bigger - look to me like an oil pressure transducer. But further forward behind the timing marker flag is one that looks more like a thermocouple. Again, just a guess.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin: let the parts counter guy help out. They usually have diagrams of what the part looks like. So then you'd know what to look for.

    Man, I'll say it again - I miss Darlene. This is exactly the type of thing that she would look up and fax to me before I could even say "thanks".

    You guys know about all the mods I've done, but there were many more that we looked at and did not do, because with the part diagram I could tell it would not fit.

    -juice
  • bg18947bg18947 Member Posts: 184
    Does anyone know if the EBC brake pads offered at tirerack.com are any better than OEM pads? I'm talking about: stopping power; wear and tear; and potential rotor damage. Just curious to see if it is a worthy upgrade.

    Thanks!
  • outback165outback165 Member Posts: 108
    Thanks all for the responses. I definitely am going to find another service facility, however, in South Florida, they are very few and very far between! I passed on the service and just had them do the oil change. The car was in for a warranty item -- which they didn't resolve!!! -- otherwise I would have just let Firestone do the oil change when I drop the car off today for the rotate/balance/alignment. *grumble*! I might just have to move north - for the Pine Barrens drives and access to more dealers!!!!

    Thanks again all!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think we have 7 dealers in the DC area, something like that.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well they are racing pads. Depending on which ones you get (Red Stuff, Black Stuff or Green Stuff) will determine how good they are. I think the Red and Black ones only are effective over a certain temp. At normal driving temps they aren't effective because they are too cold. Green Stuff is good from the get-go, but will likely wear your rotors quicker than OEM ones since they are still racing pads made to withstand higher operating temps.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Found it! Thanks to someone on the iClub whose description was like royallen's only more specific. The car runs much better at cold start now-- it actually brings the revs up. ;-)

    The bad news... saw spots leading to my stall on the way into work this morning and walked back to my car for a look. coolant is pooling on the right side (passenger's side) of the block under the intake manifold and running off the front of the block. I don't know where it's coming from, but an obvious guess is the coolant pipe that runs along the top of the block. The radiator return line that connects to it is not at all wet, besides that it would be unlikely to leak there and run all the way to pool on the block.

    sigh...

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The saga continues...

    Could it have been left there from before? Probably not.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Colin: hopefully its something simple. What a frustrating experience.

    -Brian
  • goldenrovergoldenrover Member Posts: 2
    I can't believe that a better solution does not exist to boost horsepower/performance for the 2.5L forester engine. I bet the engine is "tuned down" for the US market and could be adjusted by modifying the electronics. Any ideas?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In today's car world the manufacturers pretty much tune them as high as possible to squeeze out all the hp they can. For instance the S2000 when tuned by the performance arm of Honda can only get 15hp more than stock.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can tweak it some. Here are rough prices and claimed power gains (my estimates) from a few mods:

    $40 K&N Filter, 3hp
    $150 complete intake kit, 5hp
    $180 UR Underdrive Pulley, 5hp
    $400 various cat-back exhausts, 5-15hp
    $200? high-flow catalytic converter, 5hp
    $400 headers, 5-10hp

    Beyond that, you get into cams and forced induction, which gets very involved and pricey.

    You can probably combine a couple of these to get another 10-15 horsepower out of it, but beyond that it's not very cost effective.

    I've ridden in two turbocharged 2.5l cars (Imprezas), and they are brilliantly fast. It's amazing what they can do for $3-5 grand. Basically you get what you pay for. Those two cars would pin you in your seat, easily quicker than a stock WRX.

    -juice
  • petyagpetyag Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I'm new to this board.

    I own 4 subarus all of which run Bosch platinum plugs.

    I recently had ONE service manager tell me that the Platinum plugs in the 1996 2.2 liter Subaru have to go, because the 2.2 liter enginge was "not designed" for platinum plugs.

    I told him I have these in all my cars, they all run fine, that I've been working o ncars for 40 years, and so long as it was the correct temperature range plug, and fit in the car, it did not matter whether the plug was made out of platinum or irridium, or steel.

    Anybody ever hear of this from any other dealer? I contacted subaru with the question and am awaiting their response - if any.

    Personally I think this is one service manager's [non-permissible content removed]. but am open to researching even though his comments make no sense to me.

    PS. enging runs fine, no missess, revs up, good mileage, what brought this to bear is a "check engine" light and bad sensor in the car which I am replacing.

    please give me your input

    thanks
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    We have the same problem in the Troopers. But these are on ODBII Direct fire cars, it seems that they have higher or lower resistance and this causes the ODBII computer to go haywire when there is not the proper resistance or something, and they get a CEL come on. Unless it was the other whacky plugs doing it splitfire or something like that. I'll have to check it out and get back to you.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    believe it, goldenrover. all those things juice mentioned will largely only help high RPM as well.

    you're incorrect about the state of tune. the EJ25 SOHC is tuned for lots of midrange and part-throttle torque. foreign markets that get this engine get it just exactly as we do.

    if there were something very easy and inexpensive to do to boost power, subaru would be doing it to the production engines.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    a lot of those options juice mentioned may decrease your power in the low-mid RPM ranges where you will spend most of your driving.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Unfortunately, tuning a naturally aspirated engine for more power is tricky. Like Mike mentioned, gains at one part of the powerband often results in losses in another.

    Our EJ25 engines have been tuned/designed with N. American customer tastes in mind. The engines produce good low and mid range torque.

    The most cost-effective way (not necessarily the cheapest way in absolute $$s) is to turbocharge the engine. You probably get the most bang for the buck there.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    think I fixed this new coolant leak over lunch. lesson learned: do not trust your diagnostic skills when you're not a morning person and you're already late to work. ;-)

    I didn't fiddle with the upper radiator hose this morning because it was really hot, but obviously that's the best cause for a leak like I described.

    at lunch I popped the hood and gave the cool hose a wiggle-- yep, loose. checked the hose clamp... loose. fished around in my glovebox for this mini-screwdriver my mother-in-law put in my xmas stock a few years back and tightened it right up. I doubted I'd ever use this silly little thing but it works, bless her.

    more good news-- our execs announced today at the company xmas lunch that they're giving us another 1/2 day off for a good year, so I'm outta here at noon tomorrow. I'm gonna wash my car, she deserves it.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That little tool was already worth the price.

    I get a half day tomorrow, too, plus Monday and Tuesday off for the next two weeks! Oh, and next Friday is my Compressed Work Schedule day off. Do I ever work? :-)

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have to work tomorrow and this monday and the next monday! Oh well I'm looking forward to July 4th week though. :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    By that time I'll be nervous waiting for the baby to arrive! :-)

    Did I mention I get 3 days of paternity leave?



    -juice
  • 1subydown1togo1subydown1togo Member Posts: 348
    After tomorrow, NO MORE WORK TIL 2002!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Good old George W gave us feds the day off on Monday, which was cool. Now I have enough leave to take Friday off to finish my Christmas shopping! I'll be off until Jan 2, which is nice.

    I'd like to wash/vacuum my car tomorrow, but the weather will be in the 50s with wind. Not the best but I may brave it. Actually, I have to wash two cars -- my new Bean and the old wagon which my parents will be picking up. I'd wax too, but I am still waiting on a shipment from Klasse.

    Craig
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I am glad to hear that you are finally in good shape, when I raed your earlier post I thoughtwhat the hell next.

    The reason I asked about the burn spot in particular was my earliest cars when I lived in Ireland were mostly Austins, They had an engine that had the bad habit of blowing the gasket out between 3 and 4 cylinder, the burn track in the head and block was sometimes so bad that the head or block or both were scrap.

    In the days when money was really tight I used to pull the head slap on a gasket and then maybe get a couple more months of driving. I got so proficient that I could have the head off and on in about an hour.

    Anyway like I said i am glad that the saga is over for you.

    Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but I'm going to miss the soap opera, "The Young and the Gasketless". ;-)

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    BTW. what was the actual location of the coolant sensor? Hopefully the blown gasket was just a one time occasion.

    Cheers Pat.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I hope you took a photo after all that! :-)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I did, but you can't see it worth squat. I'll put a little arrow on the one pic that's in my imagestation album where the intake manifold is off, I could point out the area.

    -Colin
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    if anyone is interested... went ahead and tossed these on our regular webspace, didn't bother with imagestation.

    teardown pic from Saturday, arrow pointing at the temp sensor (184kb jpeg, 1280x960)
    the sensor is on the back of the coolant pipe that contains the thermostat. it is very well concealed with the intake manifold and other bits in place!

    pic of the loose connector, gonna kick my buddy's [non-permissible content removed] for this (184kb jpeg, 1280x960) this is a shot leaning over the passenger side fender, part of the intake plumbing already removed and a disconnected vacuum line can be seen as well. I'd remove much more to find the place it plugs in even though it's short length told me it couldn't be far.

    oh, and who is the fool doing all this stuff? here I am with my lovely (and patient) wife Lisa, april 2000 at my friend's wedding. I'm half-lit and 20 minutes from an unrehearsed speech in front of 200 or so. ;)
    image

    -Colin
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    How about Nitrus? tricky but will do the job
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yep but that isn't a long-term, drivable solution. It will give you a boost for a short time, kill your engine, and isn't what I consider a viable option for anything other than a light to light race or 1/4mile drag strip car.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Talk about a needle in a haystack, boy!

    This guy Kevin was running Nitrous in an Outback Sport, and the 1/4 mile times were pretty amazing for a 2.2l wagon. I'm not sure if he documented the installation, but you may want to search on i Club if you're truly interested.

    That really stresses all the engine internals, though, so any tiny failure could be catastrophic.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    A good guy. He has since taken the turbo and NOS out of the OBS. I think due to reliability issues. He's currently working with a FWD XT6 AT for 1/4 mile times.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Really? Wow. Auto is actually good for getting consistent 1/4 mile times. Like for bracket racing, where you dial in a certain time and try to get as close as possible without going quicker.

    -juice
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    Love the pic! Love the part about 20 min unrehearsed speech in front of 200.
    Too bad we couldn't get a tape of it.
    Ron
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    the wedding toast. One of the most uncomfortable moments of my life. Luckily I only had to do it once so far.

    Craig
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    All prices include parts and labor, no taxes.

    LOF: $30.57
    30K service: $227.92

    I remember when Carol first had her Jeep serviced locally. Every time she had gone to one of the Baltimore area dealers, even for one of the routine services, the bill had been around $200 if not more. She had an LOF-style service done by the local dealer here and the bill was more like $30! She looked at the bill, looked at the service manager, and said, "did you do everything?" The only thing they didn't do was to pad her bill with a bunch of frufru ;-)

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Colin, that is one [non-permissible content removed] of a spot to get at, could,nt Subaru with a little imagination have made it even worse.

    You can see how a part that probably does not cost a lot in the scheme of things turns into an astronomical repair bill because of some of the inaccessable places they choose to install stuff.

    Cheers Pat.
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