Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

jregen7243 · May 2002

Juice, I'll check out tomorrow morning whether or not the crush washer is there (I'm sure you're right). But it was such a nightmare getting there and getting home again, I can't even begin to tell you. The traffic going to that place during the week is a nightmare. It's easier for me just to change it myself and do it right then bring it back.

Jon

subearu · June 2002

rotating the tires yesterday, I found myself confused on where to use my hydraulic jack on our Outback. I managed with the scissors jack and my 2 ton jack stands this time, but next time I want to do it right.

Suggestions?

-Brian

terry4848 · June 2002

I have a new Forester S with 1200 miles on it. A few questions: When I start the car the whole car shakes, is this common? I had an oil change at the thousand mile check and just rechecked my oil today and it registers way above the full mark. Could the mechanic have put too much oil in? It was done at the Subaru dealership. Also the mirror on the passenger side makes oncoming traffic look out of whack whereas the drivers side mirror looks normal. And everytime I get out of the car I get shocked, is that because of the seats having wires in them because they are heated seats? It's very annoying, any suggestions?

wmiller4 · June 2002

Good question! I have been wondering that myself. Wasn't there an old post somewhere on this board that mentioned Griot's Garage had some kind of "pad" that fits into the hydraulic jack saddle? The "pad" enables you to use your car's jack points. Anyone remember?

paisan · June 2002

I use the sub-frame/ frame rails rather than the body points for jacking.

-mike

kens · June 2002

Terry,

The shaking at start up is normal. The Forester uses a large displacement 4-cylinder engine. Although it's got perfect first order balance, it'll still shake at start up.

I usually check my oil when the engine is cold and when I'm parked on a flat surface. A lot of factors can throw off the reading. Have you ruled all of the items out? Also, Subaru dipsticks can be tricky to read sometimes. You want to check both sides to make sure there is a nice flat bar going across the stick.

The static shock is a function of the tires. The best way to avoid, as I learned from Colin, is to grab the A-pillar before you step out.

Ken

subearu · June 2002

My hydraulic jack has something like a 2" flat cup like surface as it's jack point. I guess I just found it difficult to find a spot that would fit. I thought you could use the crossbars or differential, but did not try that.

-Brian

leo2633 · June 2002

I agree with Ken about the dipstick being tricky to read. It took me a while to get used to the dipstick on my '01 Forester. I found that the best way to get an accurate reading is to pull it out when the engine is cold after sitting all night, wipe it completely dry, then reinsert and remove. You should get an accurate reading at that point. If the oil is freshly changed, it's harder to see, because it's nearly clear, and the dipstick is a dark color. In that case, I find it helpful to move the stick until the light catches it just right, and you can see the oil level. I hope this helps.

Len

lilbluewgn02 · June 2002

I posted this on the i-club, but wanted your opinions here (more insightful!). I have the usual clacking noise on cold start in the morning on the WRX...does anyone recall whether it was the cam-belt tensioner or timing-belt tensioner that was being replaced for that noise? Are there any TSBs for the noise?

ateixeira · June 2002

Brian: I use a peice of pressure treated wood, 2"x4", cut a few feet long. This distributes the weight evently. I set it at the factory jacking points (sort of under the doors), pushed up against the lower lip of the sheet metal, which holds it in place. It doesn't slip off the jack because the jack sort of "bites" into the wood.

That works to get both tires on one side off the ground, which is all I ever need since I rorate F<->R.

To change the oil I just drive up rhino ramps. I've lifted both rear tires by using the rear diffy as a jacking point.

Terry: you may have a bad engine mount. While it's not common I think Autoweek had one fail in their WRX. The big boxer does have a lot of rotating mass, though.

-juice

paisan · June 2002

Anyone know how to take off the rotors? I think i may swap over the rotors from my XT6 AT to my MT before I get rid of the AT.

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Check Miata.net, the garage has instructions for brake upgrades. Even i-Club may have some.

Expect stubborn bolts.

-juice

subearu · June 2002

I started to try that, but wasn't very confident in that - it started to bend the plastic too much for my liking. Guess I'll look again next time.

-Brian

jimmyp1 · June 2002

I noticed that during a pad change that either the fronts or rears were held on only by the wheel lug nuts (and I supposed partially by the calipers). When I took the wheels off, they were loose. When I took the pads out of the calipers, they were completely free. The other end requires the removal of the lugs themselves, I believe.

Jim

joe_sin · June 2002

Continued saga from post 5108. On the dealer's advice, I drove the car until it was empty and gassed up with "generic" fuel, making sure not to use Mobil or Amoco. After a few days without smell, the rotten egg odor has returned. The mileage continues to be poor; 21.9 mpg for 50/50 highway/city driving. Now the dealer wants me to try 2 or 3 more tanks of gas and wait until I have 10K or 15K miles on the car before the mileage gets good. When I brought in my notice for recall WWF89, they said the software was already up to date and that the O2 sensor didn't need replacement. There assertion was that the software must be correct, since their equipment wouldn't let them perform the update. This situation has gone beyond frustrating. I drove into the dealer with the car giving off toxic fumes, and they claimed they "can't duplicate the problem". A recent inquiry with the EPA pretty much buried the idea this could have something to do with the gas. All gas is pretty much the same before detergent and RFG additives, and those have the effect of reducing proportional sulphur content; not increasing it. Hydrogen Sulfide - the gas that makes the rotten egg smell - isn't tested for with emissions equipment, so trying to find it that way is pointless. If anyone has any advice, I'd be grateful. I'd be happiest to get the car fixed, but if it can't happen I'll have to pursue other options.

jimmyp1 · June 2002

pun intended, I guess. No real advice, other than I tend not to believe that the gas would have anything to do with it. I have seen you post before, but I probably haven't seen all your posts, have you contacted SoA and started a case #? I can only imagine your frustration, and Subaru seems very good about taking care of legitimately frustrated customers. Anybody have a # for this guy? 1-800-SUBARU1 or something like that?

Jim

joe_sin · June 2002

Oh yes. I well and truly have a case number. I've had the case number since the end of March, along with a long list of very polite and seemingly well intentioned folks at SoA who have been universally unable to fix the problem. I know the 800 very well by now.

hypov · June 2002

W"hen I brought in my notice for recall WWF89, they said the software was already up to date and that the O2 sensor didn't need replacement."

I don't think I would buy that. If it was indeed to date, then SoA's data base would have been updated. Otherwise, why would you be receiving the recall notice.

-Dave

subaru_team · June 2002

In some vehicles that have had an 02 sensor replaced, the update to the ECU does not need to be done (the computer will pick up the settings).

Thanks!

Patti

hypov · June 2002

Patti-
I'd thought that SoA's database would have picked up on the O2 sensor update. In Joe's case, it appears that it hasn't, that's why I questioned his dealer service response.

Cheers

-Dave

joe_sin · June 2002

Thanks Patti. Unfortunately, my O2 sensor hasn't been replaced and the software has never been updated. At least according to my (and SoA's) records. The O2 sensor wasn't even replaced during the warranty replacement of my catalytic converter several weeks ago. Everyone I've spoken to says that should have happened, but it apparently didn't.

jimmyp1 · June 2002

SoA needs to be told about the (apparent) o2 sensor oversight, under the current or a new case #. The current case appears to have gone stagnant.

Jim

subaru_team · June 2002

I double checked. Joe's vehicle is not affected by the WWF-89 Program. I'm not sure where the notification came from?? That is why the computer would show that it could not be updated.

Patti

joe_sin · June 2002

Well, I feel better knowing that it's not the dealer screwing up. I feel worse knowing that this won't be the solution to my rotten egg smell/poor mileage scenario (case #376316).

Patti: Thanks for weighing in on this. The Service Notice I received specified 2001-2002 Foresters, which covers my car. Why is my car not affected by the program?

subaru_team · June 2002

FWIW - your case is still being reviewed. The range of vehicles is based on VIN's. Any 2K2 Forester with the last eight higher than 2*705899 has the most updated programming. I'm sure your Rep. will do her best to resolve your concern. I did speak to her about your case and I agree with the course of action she is going to recommend. I'm sure we'll sort this out!

Patti

joe_sin · June 2002

I'm very grateful for your taking the time and effort to look into all of this. The explanation about the VIN # makes more sense that the way it was explained to me at the dealership.

Seeing the original problems resolved would be truly outstanding. I look forward to hearing from the Rep.

Joe

babaoriley · June 2002

I'm going to purge/change the brake fluid in my 2000 OBW and wonder if anyone with shop manuals knows if there is a preferred order to bleed the wheel cylinders?

TIA,
Brett

paisan · June 2002

Start at the one furthest from the cylinder (should be the right rear, then the left rear, then right front then left front)

-mike

jfl · June 2002

I don't know about Subaru, but I recall farthest to nearest as the procedure I used in the past.

Hope you have a reliable helper and don't let the reservoir run dry.8~)

brekke · June 2002

would '02 OBSes (or any 2.5L Imprezas) be affected by that WWF-89? I haven't received anything in the mail.

jfl · June 2002

Brake fluid change - CORRECTION

Subaru bleeding sequence
1 front right
2 rear left
3 front left
4 right rear
Apparently, this has to do with the two fluid reservoirs.

From the 2000 Legacy/Outback service manual.

subaru_team · June 2002

I do not believe so, but I don't have my paperwork here in front of me (I'm working from home this morning). If you have a MySubaru account it will show on there if you're vehicle is affected. Or, you can call 1-800-Subaru3, or your dealer to double check. Otherwise, I'll post tomorrow. If my memory serves me correctly, it is not affected.

Thanks!

Patti

lilbluewgn02 · June 2002

Any TSBs on the clacking noise in WRXs when starting?. I heard that either timing belt tensioners or cam-belt tensioners are being replaced. LMK when you get the chance

bluesubie · June 2002

I'll be taking the wife's OB in for a 60K service soon. The service advisor said that they do a "drain". Since they only do a drain, I'll likely get a tranny fluid exchange at our local tire shop.

Just curious if anyone has had an exchange at the dealer.

-Dennis

fibber2 · June 2002

Can anyone elaborate on how this is done and the possible downsides? I understand that they insert their 'solvent' thru the cooler lines (going to the radiator), they flush it, replacing it with fresh fluid.

How do they insure complete removal of the solvent? What is the long term effect on paper clutchs, seals and other 'soft' parts?

I seem to notice that mostly independent shops offer this service, while car dealers tend to do just 'drain & fill'. What is Subaru's & others official stance on doing this? Any warranty issues?

Steve

bluesubie · June 2002

Those are some very good points.
I've never heard of a solvent, but that's possible. I'll call up the local shop and ask.

They're a chain in NJ that I go to for tires and have been completely satisfied with the prices, work, customer service, etc.

The machines cost about $5,000 so that could be why dealers don't use them. I found a few machines by doing a search on Google (transmission fluid exchange in the search box).

-Dennis

babaoriley · June 2002

Thanks to JFL (and all who responded).
I used to bleed furthest to closest to master cyl., but I've never had a car w/ ABS or 4-channel brakes. I've veeery careful about keeping the fluid level full, thanks to previous experience. When I think of all I did wrong to my first car, a '67 VW, it says a lot that it never let me down.

JFL, did you purchase the manuals from subaruparts.com? Do they help; full description, breakdowns, etc.?

Again, thanks to ALL who responded.

-Brett

paisan · June 2002

The places the "flush" the fluid out use your new fluid and push the old stuff out with the new fluid. There isn't any "solvent" to my knowledge.

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Yeah, I haven't heard of any solvents for the tranny either.

-juice

jfl · June 2002

I only got volumes 1 General Overview, 7 Body & Interior, and the wiring diagrams. I purchased it locally with a 20% off discount coupon. After CA tax, it would still have been cheaper thru a website!

As for detail, volume 1 had the brake bleeding sequence (surprise) but had no detail on changing pads. 8~(

Volume 7 does not show any outside mirrors at all!

Hope this helps,
Jim

fibber2 · June 2002

OK, now you have me questioning my memory. I will have to check and report. I thought I remember the quick oil place poster showing a before and after of valve body parts cleaned by their solvent, but maybe I was simply 'drunk and disorderly' that day....

Steve

fibber2 · June 2002

Thanks for checking on the mirror. I guess Greg and I will just have to go at Lyn's mirror blind... GREG - BRING YOUR BIGGEST HAMMER!!!!

Steve

royallen · June 2002

Having done a couple of transmission fluid analysis on a Caravan, my conclusion that drain and fill about half the system volume at interval "X" is equal to complete flush and new fluid at interval "3X" based on average fluid contaminants. Since the cost of drain and fill is less than 1/3 flush (very inexpensive if you do-it-yourself) it is my choice.

locke2c · June 2002

what you guys may have been thinking of is the uncommon, but not unheard of, practice of using ATF in the *engine* temporarily to un-stick hyraulic lifters.

I've never tried it and never will. But I just wanted to throw that out there in case that's what was being thought of-- I've never heard of using anything but ATF in an automatic tranny.

-Colin

stevek · June 2002

Friend of mine ownes a tranny shop and he has one of those flush machines. According to him on an older car, 100K+ miles, you beter leave the fluid alone than flush it, unless there are problems. On other cars it is a good idea but they can damage the tranny depending on how it is flushed. Many shops set the flush PSI high to get it done quickly and that can damage the tranny.

fibber2 · June 2002

Colin,
Yes, the 'hydraulic lifter cure' of the '70's was basically ATF.

I need to stop by the quick change place ("Be Wise") and recheck that poster. I may have my wires crossed....

Steve

subearu · June 2002

moved here from these discussions.... subearu "Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II" Jun 7, 2002 11:01am and subearu "Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II" Jun 7, 2002 11:10am

I also had the alignment checked, since it really never tracked straight since we got 'er. It would track straight if the wheel was held, but letting go would cause it to ever, ever so slightly drift to the left, even on right crowned roads. Rotating the tires helped a bit, air pressures were fine, but I finally gave in to get it checked. Talk about OCD - they noticed the slight off-ness it had and did a couple half turns on all 3 adjustments (tow, camber, thrust). Mind you, the tires have not shown any additional wear during this time either, hence my slacking on getting it checked.

We'll see how well it tracks this weekend; going to the Dells (3 hour drive).

-Brian

bat1161 · June 2002

Quick question(s) for you folks. I am bringing my 00 OB in for its 30K service at the end of the month. I have already switched to Mobil 1 for the oil; would it be beneficial to switch the Manual Transmission fluid for a synthetic as well when they replace it? What would be the benefits, and which one would you recommend?

One other thing about the service-someone a while back was discussing the cost. My dealer, Flemington Subaru, charges $400 for the 30K service(this includes the use of a loaner for the day). I feel it is worth it since I have not done much work on cars before, and don't feel like experimenting on my Subie.

Thanks,
Mark

ateixeira · June 2002

I have Mobil 1 75w90 gear oil in my Miata. The only noticeable difference is on cold shifts - it's easier. I've had no grinding or any other problems.

Though Redline makes different oils, and I've heard for Subies you are better off using a different one for the gearbox vs. the rear differential. Perhaps someone more familiar can elaborate.

-juice

subearu · June 2002

subearu Jun 7, 2002 11:15am

Seems what I thought was OCD was really Obviously Confused Disorder. Our sube now tracks straight if you hold the wheel at least 2 degrees off center. As soon as you let go, it pulls left, even on right crowned roads. The very slight pull before yielded no additional wear on my tires (eyeball & penny measured), but I'm sure this recent alignment would wear the left sides quickly. ARGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

I think it's time to take her to Liberty Subaru, in Libertyville, IL. I believe YellowbikeDon had previously mentioned they were excellent for service.

-Brian

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