Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

kevin111 · August 2002

I know a get a little bit of a jerking sensation from the car if I keep it in 1st, and a little bit of this in 2nd, if that is what you mean.

dfgriggs · August 2002

No, its not a jerking sensation from slow speeds in low gears - it's like the engine loses power for a split second or so - it happens in other gears too - and when I notice it I look down at the tac and I'm right around 2750 rpm.

kevin111 · August 2002

Could be a variety of things. I suspect others on this board are much more familiar with this problem than I am. Could be gas, could be a sensor. Could be a bunch of different things. I assume you have tried different premium gases at different stations? That RPM is close to where the turbo starts to work. I wonder if there is something with the connection there? I do not get stumbling in my car! It is actually quite smooth!

nonracer1x · August 2002

we just bought a FORESTER 2.5XS yesterday and have a few questions (which I had not prepared for despite my best efforts):
1. extended warranty protection: I usually pass on this for other purchases but hope to own the subi far past the 3 year/30K miles warranty. No way to predict the future, but does anyone have any insight whether $875 might be worth it for a 6yr/60K (=three more years/30K miles)coverage? the finance person (lot of profit on this I've heard) mentioned the moving parts, electrical and microcircuits that might mess up. Is subi any more durable than honda/vw which i've owned in the past?
2. the dealer also offered a $345 vinyl/upholstery/exterior application package with five-year followup protection (just phone the dealer and they would take care of any significant problem- hard-to-clean grape juice was example) [http://www.expressprotection.com/care.htm] which won't help with dings from rocks but might help keep the sierra gold/beige interior cleaner. What do you think? they said scotch-guard wouldn't cut it and wore off easily.
3. I asked for a tube of gold touch-up paint (see message 193-96) but the subie sales manager said it wasn't available (!?) I'm going to check with parts on Monday, but anyone know cost/availability? maybe I'll wait until/if I need it.
4. I can stow my (one) bike in the cargo space easily. any reason i should put it on a rack above or behind the car instead? thanks.

mtownson · August 2002

I have a 1999 Forester L and have been happy with it overall but I too have suffered from rear wheel bearing failure as mentioned in earlier posts. The left rear went out around 30,000 miles and was replaced under warrAnty. The right rear is now failing at 40,000 miles. The dealer estimated $450 to replace the bearing and seals. I complained that wheel bearings should last at least 100,000 miles and with two failures this early on and with the problem appearing to be common as discussed on this board the repairs should be handled by Subaru. After discussions with SOA they agreed to cover 1/2 the cost (so the repair will cost me $225 which is what an independent shop quoted without assistance from SOA).
The point of my question is has anyone else had success getting SOA to cover the entire cost of bearing replacement after the warranty has ended? Obviously this is an unusually high failure rate which SOA is aware of.
I was considering trading up to a new 2003 in the near future but this issue has somewhat soured my taste for Subaru, not so much for the design/installation flaw with the bearings as much as SOA's unwillingness to fully admit the problem and cover the fix. Thanks.

ateixeira · August 2002

If you are a do-it-yourself type, consider the single point ground (SPG) mod that's common on i-Club.com. That's exactly the type of thing it fixes, and it's cheap and easy to do.

I'm getting an extended warranty for our Legacy, but a 7/100. 6/60 isn't much more than is standard. Our 626 was rated reliable by every source available but we still ended up spending $2500 in the 6th and 7th year for repairs.

It's funny that bearings are brought up because our 626 had a bearing failure at about 70k, and we paid upwards of $900 to fix it. Mazda offered no help, saying it was wear and tear and well beyond warranty anyway. $225 is only a fraction of that, and FWIW the 2003 went to a new design shared with the new Impreza which is supposed to be more durable.

I'd pass on #2. Scotch guard the inside yourself with a can for $4. The factory does undercoating already, where it's needed.

Touch-up paint costs about $5 or so, maybe more at retail.

Does your bike get dirty? I have a hitch and a bike rack mounted on that, and that leaves the roof for a cargo carrier I have (for max capacity).

-juice

ateixeira · August 2002

If you have an Outback, I think those actually take two filter elements. My Forester takes one.

-juice

subearu · August 2002

Our '00 Outack took 2 filters in the in-cabin filter. It's been a month or so since I replaced 'em, but I don't remember there being a lot of room (or extra room for that matter) for non-filtered air to get through. The whole thing seemed pretty 'air'-tight. ;-)

-Brian

jwevan01 · August 2002

I've got a 1999 Forester S, bought used with 35K, records check indicate that I am the second owner. When we saw it on the lot, it had a bad passenger side rear wheel bearing, dealership (non-subaru) had it fixed. We came back and drove it, negotiated, bought it and an extended warranty. Bearing went out 2 months later, took it to the shop that the dealer sent it to, they replaced it. Replacement went out 2 days later, back to the shop, was told that it was very difficult to get the seals in place properly and the mechanic had accidentally gotten the seal slightly pinched under the bearing. 3rd replacement went about 20,000 miles. Only reason we went back to the shop was because they did the original work and had some responsibility for it.

Switched to dealer, had the 4th bearing put in about a month ago using extended warranty and now it is making an all too familiar noise. Taking it back in under dealer parts warranty on Wednesday. This will make 5 bearings in 1 year and 25,000 miles. Obviously, I am concerned and will restate my concerns to the dealer. From what I read here and in other forums, it appears that there is an issue with wheel bearings in the earlier Forester model Subaru vehicles.

Is it just a problem with inferior parts, or is there a deeper design problem?

Thanks,

Joel Evans

ateixeira · August 2002

It is an issue with the installation of the bearing, more than anything. They changed the new ones to a design that is more fault-tolerant, the "fault" being improper installation.

That shop may not be in business for too long, given the shoddy work. I bet they overtorqued the bearings during the replacement.

Since you have that warranty, let the dealer do it and ask them to double-check on the installation tips from SoA. Done right, they will last. Mine are all original after 47k miles, and I have towed and been off road at the beach and in the Pine Barrens. Not to mention I have Plus sized wheels and tires, which puts extra stress on the bearings.

Installed properly, they will not fail.

-juice

jmulholl · August 2002

I have a 2000 legacy wagon with 45,000mi. I called a couple of shops about a spark plug change, and all (using the same software, I presume) said I needed platinum plugs. I'm pretty sure that the OEM was non-platnium. I'm fine going with the platinum ($12 premium)but wanted to make sure that they would be ok in my car.
Also, should the fuel filter be changed at 45,000mi? Thanks.
Joe

blane · August 2002

jmulholl:

You ought to look in your glove compartment where you will probably find your Owner's Manual. It will explain (and provide manufacturer's part numbers for) exactly what type(s) of spark plugs Subaru recommends for your specific model and year vehicle. Just check the Table Of Contents or Index.

subaru_team · August 2002

Hi! I can't really advise you on this, other than to suggest you bring it into the dealer and have them check it out.

Sorry!

Patti

subaru_team · August 2002

Please ask the Rep. at Subaru to review the case with me? I'd like to review all of the factors involved.

I'm sorry you are having a problem and I'm sure we can do something to make you happier.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team · August 2002

Sorry for the problems you are having. If the bearings are installed improperly, the housing can be damaged. If the housing is not replaced, all future bearings would be subject to failure. You may want to have this checked out and go back to the place that did the work originally.

The dealer should be able to help you and explain it in more technical detail than I'm able to.

Patti

sophies_dad · August 2002

I have a '00 Forester (^&k miles) that has had at least 3 wheel bearing failures - I would have to look at the service records to come up with an accurate count and I think it is in the process of failing again

It is always the right rear bearing that fails. The 1st failure was covered under warranty, the 2nd failed very quickly and was replaced under warranty again. The 3rd failure was also covered under warranty, but now the deal is that the replacement part warranty I was offered is unacceptable - the dealer wants to give me 10 or 12k miles coverage.

I say that is unacceptable as it is clearly a defect in the design of the vehicle, the part or the installation process.

I also have had continuous problems with my check engine light. It first came on at <1k miles. It has been replaced under warranty and under recall. Every time I have the problem I get a different explanation -- tighten the gas cap being the least expensive.

Three days ago I had the car in for service - this time the check engine light is said to be caused by a bad catalytic converter - they ordered the part and expect me to pay for it.

The previous time the light went on it was the emissions canister - or something like that that cost about $80 plus labor to replace. Long story short - I didn't pay and they replaced it as a goodwill gesture.

I also have had to have the tires replaced several times due to excessive wear. Seems the alignment had problems - although I paid to have a 4 wheel alignment done when I replaced the tires the first time.

My car was built in July of 99 (so is it really a 2000?) and so the alignment specs for the 2000 version were wrong for my car. The dealer did a free alignment when the most recent tires went on. We will see....

I had hoped to get 130k miles out of this vehicle but I am not sure if I'll make 80k.

Does any one have any ideas to share?

subaru_team · August 2002

I'm sorry for your problems also. I really can't comment without a lot of information, but somethings jump out at me. Please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3. I'm sure we will try to help you.

Regarding the parts warranty - it is 12 months/unlimited miles no matter what the dealer says if it is our part. The Rep. can review that with the dealership.

Please give us a call.

Thanks!

Patti

ththomp · August 2002

I have a 1998 Forester S I purchased used with 43,000 miles. I've been driving it for two years now without any problems and really have liked my Forester. Unfortunately like so many other Forester owners, I now have experienced right rear wheel bearing failure. This happened when my Forester had 52,500 miles on it. I was also told that my crank seal is bad and leaking on my timing belt and would also need to get this fixed and replace the timing belt (around $500). I went ahead and had the dealership fix the right wheel bearing but was told this was not covered under any warranty -extended or not so I had to plunk down over $300 for this. I researched this problem on the web and low and behold between what is on Edmunds site and Cars.com - there are lots and lots of frustrated/irate Forester owners who have been stuck with recurring and often costly wheel bearing repairs.

My question is this - how can one reasonably feel safe that this problem won't keep recurring as it seems to for so many? I simply can't afford these type of repairs and have lost a great deal of confidence in driving my beloved Forester. It appears that installation is an issue but also the wrong type of bearings specified/installed in the first place. I'm very disappointed in the way Subaru is dealing with this problem - forcing the customers to go to extreme lengths to plead their case when they know this is a problem that is not the customer's fault in the least. I traded my Ford Explorer in for this Forester because of the problems associated with tires and safety. I had always heard Subaru stood behind their products but I'm doubting this given their approach at solving the wheel bearing problems(at least Ford owned up to their problems and reimbursed owners for a new set of tires.)

I'm seeking advice on whether to trade the Forester in at this point and cut my losses or take my chances that these problems won't keep recurring and have several more years of happily driving my Forester.

kens · August 2002

Just one different data point -- I own a 98 Forester S with 74K miles and my bearings are still fine.

Ken

jfl · August 2002

My trusty 2000 Legacy / Outback Service Manual (and Owner's manual, too) do not specify platinum plugs.

However, at 30k miles the dealer said I didn't need a plug change until 60k because I have platinum plugs. (A dealer bypassing a chance to pad the bill?!)

The engine is the same as 2001 which I believe has platinum plugs. When I finally change the plugs, I'll let you know what's OE.

BTW - Owner's manual recommends fuel filter changes every 30k, with the usual disclaimers.

Jim

sten2 · August 2002

To clarify my post above: I have a Legacy L wagon, 2000. The place where air is flowing through without being filtered is the area just behind the access panel and resistor (where the wire harness is connected.) It is the area below the upper filter and in-between the lower filter and the access panel.

Does anyone have any plastic pieces on the sides of this area to stop airflow?

The area is about 3" long and 4 1/4" high, or about 13 sq inches. The filters are about 50 sq. inches together. So about 21% of the air duct's area is unfiltered. And of course the air would rather flow through an unobstructed path.

Sten

kens · August 2002

Jim, Joe:

I believe some shops out there have misinformation. All Subarus with the 2.5L SOHC Phase II engine use regular spark-plugs (non Platinum) that require 30K change intervals. The 2000+ Legacys all come with this engine.

Platinum plugs were used in the previous 2.5L DOHC Phase I engine because the layout of this model made it difficult to remove the plugs. The 60K change interval associated with platinum plugs helped to reduce the amount of maintenance labor.

You can use platinum plugs in your SOHC engine without any problems. In fact, many performance-oriented Impreza 2.5RS owners with the Phase II engine have found a marginal increase in engine performance by making the switch.

Ken

jfl · August 2002

Ken - Finally, I hear an answer that makes sense. Seeing the cost difference between copper and platinum-tipped, I can do two or three changes w/ copper plugs for one platinum change. I'll stick w/copper.

Some time ago I told the story of my VW GTI. Factory specified Bosch silver plugs. Paid a fortune for 4 plugs and when I changed then, the OE was plain ol' Champions. 8~O

Jim

oclvframe · August 2002

First about the plugs:
I believe that starting in '01, with the advent of the new H-6 engines, the platinum plugs were OEM on the H-6s since they will be incredibly hard to replace (very little space between the fender well and the heads.

Now about the cabin air filters:
I have 01 Bean. When I first replaced the filters (which come stock on this model) I was very annoyed to find one of the filters' media was pulled aside where it had 'snagged' as it was being installed. I was even more annoyed when I saw that there was a huge gap behind the smaller (or lower) of the two filters. This is a horrendous design based on what these filters are supposed to accomplish. First of all, if 90% filtration is what they are trying to accomplish, then both the filter media and the filters should be sealed all the way around (no way for air to bypass). Unfortunately, due to poor design, there is lots of bypass around both the filter housing on the lower side and between the filter media and its housing. Done correctly, the filters would slide into a custom rack that has foam or rubber gasketing all around it and the filter media would be glued all the way around to the frame it sits in. As it is designed, the filtration is better than nothing, but as compared to what it should be, it is pathetic and not worth the premium they charge for these filters.

Sorry but I had to vent (again....I vented just after replacing the filters the first time!)

-r

tomd17 · August 2002

I have a 2001 Forester question. Is there a special method for removing spark plug boots and spark plugs?

kens · August 2002

tomd17,

Your question should probably go under the Maintenance and Repair topic, but check this link out:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?s=527c2ed90533a76bcc44b178d5301a6c&threadid=166

Ken

originalbitman · August 2002

Thanks Ken. Superb link!

bit

driver007 · August 2002

I purchased a 2000 Forester L new. After 5 months it started having hesitation/idling problems when the vehicle would slow down during a stop. While idling at a light the engine runs rough and causes the car to vibrate. While trying to accelerate from a stop, the car will not move (the engine seems to be stalling),or if it starts to move, it hesitates and then accelerates very slowly. This has almost caused me to be rear ended several times. I took the car to the dealer. They insisted there was no problem because the check-engine light did not come on. After 2 months of this problem and several trips to the dealer, the check-engine light came on. The dealer decided to replace the oxygen a/f sensor. This seemed to take of the hesitation, but the car never has had the same power that it orginally had. Let me state that the hesitation problem was intermittent but there was no pattern as to when the problem would occur.
This week the check engine light came on again. The car is hesitating/stalling. The dealer insists that it is a fuel problem. The dealer called Subaru tech support who said to replace the oxygen a/f sensor again. This is my third a/f sensor and the car is still not right. Who do I contact at Subaru to get this problem resolved. As stated earlier, this problem has almost caused me to be in several accidents. I am quite frustrated that the dealer has such a indifferent attitude about my safety. They almost seem like they do not want to take care of the issue because the vehicle is still under factory warranty. Please help.

ateixeira · August 2002

In these repeated failure cases with the bearings, it must be the housing Patti mentioned. I'd bring that up with the dealer to make sure that also gets replaced, then.

Carl: check out i-Club.com and read about the SPG mod (single-point ground). It's someething even a novice can do and it tends to resolve problems like yours. Good luck.

-juice

dude · August 2002

Well I got my first breakage on my 98 GT Wagon. Sunroof stopped operating. I was opening it one day and heard some noise. Couldn't close it with the motor until I manualy did it. Now it's totally stuck. I took it to the dealer and I told them that the warranty does cover the motor and the switch but they said that there's nothing wrong with the motor but everything else needs replacement. THey said something to the point of $1800 for the whole thing which is ridiculous. Anyway, anybody else had this problem and what's my best solution on fixing it? THanks a bunch.

dry_fly · August 2002

Hi:

If I understand correctly the things people have said, I need the following for the 30K checkup:
replace spark plugs, bleed and replace brake fluid, check brakes, replace fuel filters, drain and replace antifreeze, replace air filter, and replace PCV (I have no idea what this is) thing.
Are there any more procedures I need to take into account.

TIA

Don

kens · August 2002

dude: What did the dealer say needed replacement? You might want to find a local mechanic that might be able to do it for less.

Don: The list you mention sounds about right but check your owner's manual -- that will give you a minimum list of things to check at 30K for your particular vehicle. Most dealers will often add on top of that for extra business. You should be able to negotiate what you want.

Ken

ateixeira · August 2002

dude: that pricing sounds absurd. I had a complete aftermarket moonroof installed from scratch for $895. Call 800-SUBARU3 and ask the rep for some help.

Don: change the wiper blades while you're at it, and lube the sway bar bushings (the rubber things that hold them in place). I'll assume you already did a tire rotation and an oil/filter change.

-juice

dude · August 2002

Just hung up from talking to subaru. They said that the only way for the dealer to find out what's wrong is to tear it apart which would be an hour or so -- which is out of my pocket. If the damage was caused by motor, they would replace the whole thing for free -deductible, if not, then I'm SOL

outback_97 · August 2002

89 GL was failing NOx emissions, badly. Here's why, if anyone is interested:

The EGR valve was good, but the hose to actuate it was clogged, so it was gerring no vacuum to open up and do it's job. After replacing the hose, NOx levels went from 4000 to less than 400.

What was the hose clogged with? A 1/4" ball bearing intentionally put there by someone. Weird. Presumably they hoped to increase power by doing this, or maybe they just wanted more smog in the air. Or, a dishonest mechanic put it there to get some repair business? I'm just glad we figured it out and now it passes w/ flying colors.

ateixeira · August 2002

Bizarre. I guess you bought it used? Shame on the seller if they knew about it.

dude: your call, then. You could go to an outside shop, but then you'd pay even if it was the motor. Maybe they'd agree to do an assessment for a pre-determined amount.

-juice

dude · August 2002

Yup, bought it used. Previous owner did have classic plan on it though. He bought the warranty for 2 grand and it was the only subaru warranty available.

I just talked to another subaru dealer they said that they'd diagnose it for no more than $75 bucks, so I'll probably do that.

locke2c · August 2002

I'm sure it was a "performance" thing, desiring to keep those nasty hot exhaust gasses out of the intake stream.

EGR when equipped wasn't even used at wide-open throttle, so I'm not sure what someone was thinking.

-Colin

jmulholl · August 2002

Thanks for the feedback. Here's what appened after my last post.
I took it to Kimmel, who said he would put in platinum plugs for $60. But after he had the car, he called to say that it would be $90, because the subaru motor I had was "more complicated" than the one his estimate was based on. I sighed and said to go ahead.

But he called back an hour later saying that the spark plug wire had to be replaced ($125)because he couldn't get to the plugs without breaking the wires(the wire cap was frozen onto the plug).

This was too much and I told him to forget it. I took it to my regular mechanic (felt bad for not going to him in the first place). He had no trouble replacing the plugs, and charged me $65. He also replaced the fuel filter for $45, which seemed very reasonable.
My Kimmel experience fits with dealings I've had with other chain tire and brake shops. They tease you with cheap deals, but then manage to add on extra charges. This is not to say that "you always get what you pay for," because my experience with dealer service shops is almost uniformly terrible.
Joe

outback_97 · August 2002

89 GL was bought used from a dealer, a trade in that wasn't detailed or prepped. It's been a great little car for around town. Interesting note on emissions tests (at least as they're done in Salt Lake City): If it's all time AWD, they can't dyno it and don't check for NOx. This is how the car was tested (incorrectly) last year, and it passed. This year, it was tested in FWD (it's selectable in this car) and was dyno'd and failed. Probably the EGR disabling was a misguided attempt at coaxing tire shredding raw power out of the mighty 1.8l. Didn't work.

Dealer experiences: mostly bad. If you show mine exactly what needs to be done, ok. When it comes to diagnosis, forget it. Couldn't diagnose a flat tire. Why do I tolerate it? Service contract hasn't expired yet, and unless I want to pay for stuff that's covered, I must rely on them. 30k / 60k / etc. service: overpriced at dealer, in my opinion. Another dealer quoted me $58 (part only!) for the little hose going to the EGR, from the solenoid, that was blocked on the aforementioned GL. Laughed so hard I dropped the phone. They also wanted $80 to "diagnose" it. No air moving thru a hose = pretty obvious problem. Subaru makes good cars, but has some poor dealers, in my opinion.

jfl · August 2002

Thanks for the update. May I ask what year your Legacy is and were the OE plugs platinum?

BTW I saw on your profile you're shopping for a FIAT? In a past life I had a '71 124 Spider modified to the European version with dual IDF Weber carbs. A really fun car.

Jim

ateixeira · August 2002

dude: sounds fair, keep us posted?

Joe: how'd you drive it with a broken spark plug wire? Firing on 3 cylinders?

-juice

locke2c · August 2002

juice,

I'd inferred that he didn't drive on 3 cylinders because the servicer was actually lying and there was nothing wrong with the car. They were shamelessly attempting to bilk him out of money.

-Colin

ateixeira · August 2002

Tsk, tsk. JD Power still puts Subaru dealers below average, though as they say YMMV. We have about 7 in this area so we're lucky to have choices.

-juice

stevek · August 2002

That maybe a bit high, the filter cost about $20 and you can do it in less than 5 minutes, don't even has to bend over it is right on top of the strutt tower on the driver's side. The only tool you need is a screwdriver.
On the other hand the plugs were cheap since pulling those wires is a b...tch and you need some special tools (swiwel and long attachements) to reach it.

ateixeira · August 2002

paisan · August 2002

$20 for the part and $25 to install it isn't that bad. I mean when labor is $50-$75/hr that's about right.

-mike

ateixeira · August 2002

It's just 3 bolts if you want to DIY. You can see the two at the top, then there's one more that secures the filter in place. Use a clamp to pinch the fuel lines so they don't leak, and remove the gas cap to de-pressurize the fuel system.

-juice

kens · August 2002

Joe,

Sounds like your dealer was up to something. I thought it was fishy that they couldn't correctly identify your engine to begin with. Glad you had your plugs replaced for a good deal.

Ken

lucien2 · August 2002

My keyless entry fob for the GT is a POS. The Outback responds from much longer distances than the GT does. So I wonder if I can get a new one somehow. Anyone know about this? Like what if your original got crushed or stolen?

(um, WebX blows today BTW.)

Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles