Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

hsub · January 2003

paisan:

What might be the differences between the SP5000s and the Sport A2s..

I'd been looking into the Sport A2s, but many reviewers knock their performance in snow, especially in turns.

Thanks.

paisan · January 2003

Fortunately, Bat1161 was on the same trip I was with his outback, running the Sport A2s. He'll probably chime in here with his feelings on the Sport A2s on there.

My feeling is that the A2s will handle better than the SP5000s in snow and rain, and the SP5000s will be better in the dry. Both doing all-weather driving very well.

What kind of reviewers are these? Are they the average joe? For instance in turns, Zephyr was running full-snows in his 2.5RS and he was able to get it loose on the snow if he wasn't careful. We were doing lots of curves and hills, only on 1 or 2 times did it get a bit loose on the snow, and even then give it a tad of gas and you straightened right out.

Often times people think that all-seasons or snow tires will give them dry-perfromance in snow, which is not the case.

-mike

bsvoller · January 2003

I wrote a couple of reviews on the Forester board some time back (#8387 & 8362).

Had the tires on for several weeks now and I like them quite a bit. Best all-around tire for the money, but as usual, YMMV.

Hope this helps,

-brianV

otis123 · January 2003

We have a 2001 LLBean Outback with 36K (will reach the milestone some time on the way home today). :-(

We are not buying an extended warranty AND plan to keep the car a long time... In other words, the car is great!

Ralph

barriostkd · January 2003

I would highly recommend Subarus if you're in the market for a wagon. I have a '95 Outback Sport, which I got in Aug. of '94. It's almost 9 years old and currently has 166K miles on it, but it still runs great! I even have the original clutch on it! The thing never broke down or stalled on me since I got it. The only things I replace occasionally are the tires & brakes (at 90K miles & 140K miles for the brakes). I've driven it from NJ to Vermont so many times already and even took it to Quebec in Canada during winter. I absolutely love it. My brother in SF had a Legacy & my sister in Vancouver has a Legacy Outback, and they both think Subarus are great cars. I'm just waiting for the WRX STi to come out so I can get one.

cptplt · January 2003

am I dreaming or does the gasohol used in many states nowadays obviate the need for HEET? the pumps always say can contain up to 10% ethanol which would be a whole lot more alcohol in your tank than any likely number of bottles of HEET or ISO HEET you would ever use? I certainly haven't had any problems with frozen fuel lines by not using HEET since gasohol was more prevalent in the upper midwest.
Have they gotten rid of MBTE in the states which didn't use gasohol initially yet?

locke2c · January 2003

not much of the country as a whole is using ethanol.

it would be hard to, given it costs more to make than it's worth on the open market and can't survive without subsidy.

-Colin

nygreg · January 2003

that was me. I find the Sport A2s a great all around tire. I am happy with their straight line snow performance, but, I find they loose it a little too easy when turning in snow. Adding power and using the AWD pulls you out nicely though.

Greg

cploeg · January 2003

I bought a new Forester 2002 in March. It currently has less than 5,000 miles on it, but has been in to my local dealer more than 7 times!

The problem according to the dealer: I don't drive my car enough.

The problem according to me: I work from home and don't need a car often, but when I need it, I want it to work. This week I was unable to drive my car because I was in bed for a solid week with the flu, and when I needed it to drive to the doctor's office because I couldn't breath, it was dead. Again.

Either way, the battery is continually dead. After a recharge, I might be able to go without driving my car as much as 4-5 days at a time without a dead battery.

Although the dealer has gone out of his way to determine if there is something wrong with the car, his latest call tells me that he has given up. He said, "You've got to drive more. You're short-tripping your car and the battery isn't getting recharged and it continues to drain while it sits in the garage. Put a trickle charger on it."

When I get to drive this car, I love it. But I bought a new car for reliability. I really don't want to have to mess under the hood every time I need to drive my car. Does this qualify as a lemon? Can I get the SOA involved? Or are they also going to say "You need to drive your car more."

Any help would be appreciated,
Cheryl

beachfish · January 2003

Oh, that's a good one. I don't believe it and you shouldn't either. I've treated cars like that since I bought my house 23 years ago.

I bought a 2002 S on 9/1/01 and now have 7800 miles on it - I walk to work most days and when I drive it's only 6 blocks. I walk to the grocer, the drug store, restaurants and can even get to one movie house(and it's an old one with an organ that rises up through the floor in front of the screen.)

There is no reason a battery won't tolerate sitting for a week or two. What do people do when they park the car at the airport and leave town for a week or a month? Do they require a jump when they return? No. Nope. Once in a blue moon - maybe.

Tell them to fix it. Period. No excuses. If you know somebody with a big mouth like me take them with you to stare them down and laugh at them.

I'm 52 and have been through a bunch of cars and the only one that had that kind of a problem was a girlfriend's 1969 Chevy Nova with a bad starter. It would drain the battery every other night. Sometimes 2 out of 3. It just depended on how the starter was sitting when the car was parked. A full diagnostic over a period of two days turned up nothing. I told them to rebuild the starter and that fixed the problem (after they told me I was wasting my money.)

I'm not saying the starter is your problem - I'm not up to date on all of these computer-infested modern autos. But there is something draining that battery and it could be as simple as a bad battery or as complicated as I don't know what.

You bought a new car and they have to find out what's wrong and fix it.

Ask them how often they start all of the cars on their back lot. I bet it isn't every week.

I'm in Richmond, Virginia if you're around here.

John

nippononly · January 2003

if you have an aftermarket alarm or stereo, that is the electrician's first stop!

Could just be a bad battery, and that should be under warranty, so have them replace it and see if the problems persists.

They are right about one thing...if you are driving your car once a week or less, you may want to think about a trickle charger, and if not, each time you drive it, you should be sure to run it for 5-10 minutes at least, so that it can "recover" from the long period of inactivity and charge back up.

kens · January 2003

Cheryl,

Have you changed your battery yet? If not, I think you have a bad battery. Your vehicle should not be dead after sitting around for a few days. The OE battery is pretty weak so if you can't get it replaced under warranty, it is well worth going out and buying an aftermarket one.

Personally, I'd try and resolve issues with the dealer and SOA before going through something like the Lemon Law. If the dealer isn't helpful, give Subaru a call at 1-800-SUBARU3 and set up a case.

Ken

fibber2 · January 2003

Very good question. I will see if any of my chemist friends here at work can fill in anything.

My understanding is that methanol is made from wood pulp, ethanol from grains (corn, etc). I am not sure what the source is for propanol (or its isomers - isopropyl), but it's much higher cost indicates it must be made from something not as common as trees or corn.

Methyl (cheap gas dryer) got a bad rap as it damaged rubber seals and killed electric fuel pumps and injectors. IIRC, car makers addressed some of that by switching from rubbers to silicon and viton (?) seals. Isopropyl is considered to be pretty safe to use. I have never seen ethanol sold outside of a fuel mix. Maybe it doesn't scavenge water well on its own???

Ethanol (C2H5OH) functions like MTBE - as an oxygen/hydrogen source, although as you can see, there is not much oxygen per molecule. In the USA it is typically used in less than 10% concentration with no ill effect. I think Brazil uses a higher concentration "GASAHOL" and mfgrs had to battle severe corrosion problems. Now that MTBE is on the 'bogy' list, I wonder if ethanol will reappear across the country??

Steve

subearu · January 2003

All of the gas pumps in the SE Wisconsin area that is deemed part of the Chicago Metropolitan area have 'up to 10% ethanol added for cleaner fuel'. All gas grades as well.

-Brian

joybell · January 2003

I have to let my faithfull 1993 Loyale wagon go for scrap soon because of rust preforation. It was rustproofed at the dealer when bought new in November 1992. Other than the rust, it is mechanically A1. I will be getting a new Impreza in May (new model), and this time want to be able to keep the body intact as long as it is mechanically sound. I make less than 10,000kms a year so the body will always "go" first. What kind of rustproofing treatment can you recommend for my new Impreza? Is the steel used any better than that used in early Subarus. My Chaser rusted out before it wore out too. I am told that Subaru used to use recyled steel, like Datsun, and that's why they are prone to rust.

timo43 · January 2003

Hi-- have read through all the postings, and am very pleased that this excellent resource exist. Thank you to the owners and experts.
Just picked up our new 03 Forester (quite a switch from my old 85 Tercel!). One small thing that has me only slightly concerned: at about 27 kilometers the check engine light went on. I phoned the service manager, and he assured me this meant nothing... that it was not uncommon in a new car. He said if it did not go out within a week or so, to bring it in. It did indeed go out at about 70 kilometers. So, is he right? Should I ignore that the light went on?

nygreg · January 2003

You will likely get different views on the rust subject. We just discussed this and someone (?) mentioned a yearly oil treatment that they find very effective. My opinion is that today's cars are much less likely to rust due to better manufacturing (double sided galvanized steel, drainage, etc) and frequent washing and flushing of the undercarriage is sufficient. Of course, Lower NY doesn't always have the toughest winters.

Greg

kens · January 2003

Ethanol is the replacement oxygenate here in CA now that MTBE is out.

I second Greg's opinion about rust and today's cars, especially Subies. I believe they are far less prone to rusting compared to vehicles a decade ago. Rustproofing often is a way for the dealer to just fatten their profit margins. In addition, I've heard that the "rustproofing" is often a sparse coating of material that doesn't really protect the chassis anyway.

Anyone know when Subaru started getting into double-galvanized steel?

Ken

nine51 · January 2003

A couple of sugestions:
1 - make sure your gas cap is tight. It has a wratchet type closure and you should make it click a couple of times when you close it.

2 - don't short cycle the engine, i.e. don't start it cold, back out of the garage and shut it off. It runs rich and can foul the O2 sensor. Happened on my 96 OBS a couple of times and cleared up after a few miles.

I've read that you can re-set the light by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. I've never tried it FWIW.

kens · January 2003

As long as the light isn't flashing, it's something minor. The most common culprit is a loose gas cap.

The light should go out on it's own after a few ignition cycles. Just tell the dealer the light was on the next time you're in for service and they can read the error code using special tools.

If it doesn't go out on, follow the dealer's advice and set up and appointment. Again, as long as it's not flashing, it's probably a minor item.

Ken

fibber2 · January 2003

After I posted this morning, I suddenly had a good laugh about why they sell methanol and isopropanol and not ethanol dry gas...

Picture the scenario: Man walks into auto parts store and buys ethanol gas treatment. Pours half into tank, then drinks the remaining 6 ounces. Now with a blood alcohol level approaching 0.20, he crashes the car!!! Maybe it is not such a good idea....

Steve

lfdal · January 2003

Re: cploeg's battery problem. Its a battery, not rocket science. Let's see - battery dead after not being used a week. Well, if the battery's not holding charge, maybe there's a defective electrical device draining it slowly over time. All the dealer has to do is put a meter that measures current in series with the battery, then he can measure the current draw and find out if its within limits. I have to believe Subaru has a spec for this. Some current draw is valid, as there's a so much electronic stuff in car now that stays powered all the time. But still, Subaru should have a number for that. If the current is too high he might have a problem finding it, but that should be his problem, not yours.
If he says he's done that, either the alternator is defective and won't charge the battery properly, the belt is too loose or the battery needs to be replaced at Subaru's expense.
A good point raised by someone else was whether or not there was any aftermarket equipment installed in the car. This is a favorite "blame game" item.

I used to leave my Merc Sable parked in the driveway for 2 months plus in the winter when I was travelling and never had a problem
Nor should you.
Just another 2 cents

fibber2 · January 2003

Pat (Hondafriek) who lives in the 'great white north' (Canada) told us about it.

Steve

kens · January 2003

Steve,

Actually that's not too far off -- I've heard urban legends that people sometimes drink Listerene for it's ethanol content.

Ken

ken_from_nj · January 2003

didn't kitty dukakis do something like that

leo2633 · January 2003

now THERE's a name from the past!!!

Len

idahodoug · January 2003

Tomorrow, I'll be arriving home after a month long vacation. My '97 Legacy has been sitting in a freezing N. Idaho garage (about 100 miles from the Canadian border) this entire time. If it does not start as normal after all that time I'll be surprised. We've been vacationing like this for 10 years and in all that time I've never had a car not start after sitting in a winter garage. The 10 year old LandCruiser sitting next to it will also fire on the first crank.

It's true that a vehicle only used for a short trip will not get a chance to recharge the energy expended to crank the car up, but if you park a properly charged battery it should not be a problem to start after a measly week. I'd contact SOA and ask for a battery replacement under warranty. Some area auto parts stores also offer free battery checking which tell you if it is properly holding the charge.

IdahoDoug

hsub · January 2003

Thanks to everyone for the your experience with the Dunlops. Given our desire not to hassle with doing a summer/winter change and realizing that there is some compromise with all-seasons, we'll go with the Sport A2s.

Around Rochester NY the lowest price for these in 225/60R16 seems to be at Dunn Tire at around $120 incl balancing.

Thanks again.

paisan · January 2003

Bat and I just drove through there last Friday!!!

-mike

joybell · January 2003

Yes,Pat (Hondafriek) did mention oil treatment and I checked around this weekend. I found two local garages that do this, using two different oils. One of them is vaseline based and very "runny", the other I don't remember. Then I was talking to a neighbour who told me to be very carefull about which product to use. He told me a "disaster story" about a rust proofing oil that desolved the seals between the steel body parts of a car! I just want to make sure that I use the "right oil"! Also, is it worth it to have the dealer rust proof with their own product if I am going to use the oil? Will their rustproofing prevent the oil from reaching the nooks and crannys? I guess I wasn't clear in my first quest for information!

lucien2 · January 2003

timo43 · January 2003

Thanks for your help / reassurance. Just a note (should have said this before). The sales person gave a pretty good going over and did mention that the gas cap had to be well secured (and also not to overfill the tank), so that was certain not to have been the reason (heard him click it about seven clicks-- and also double checked when the light went on). Anyway, it (the light) did go off, so that is good, and will just hope it was something to do with the car having been sitting in the lot or moisture or something minor. Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns. PS, so far really think this is a Wonderful vehicle.

fibber2 · January 2003

TireRack lists them for about $80 each, but by the time you add in shipping and mounting at one of their select local dealers, you are probably over $110. At this point it is probably a wash.

Steve

bat1161 · January 2003

Just to put in my .02, as Paisan pointed out I did the 1300+ trip with him through all kinds of weather this past weekend. I have about 6000 miles on them and I have to say they handled nicely. I had no problems in any of the snow, and was able to keep up with Paisan with no problems (except for the 130-140 run:-)-no way I will try that in my OB).

Mark

kens · January 2003

So, are the SP5000 worth the extra $$ as an all-season tire for daily driving?

Ken
(Shopping for tires for his Forester)

bat1161 · January 2003

Just a quick note-after this weekends trip I would recommend getting the Subaru Winter Wiper Blades, at least for the front. I had the regular blades (only 1 month old) and they stunk in the heavy, wet snow. They would ice up continuously.

Next Subie must have the All Weather Package. I wonder how hard it is to add the heated side view mirrors?

Mark

bluesubie · January 2003

Mark, we put Bosch refills into our cars and they're great. No problems in the snow, including our drive back from Pittsburgh in the snow last Sunday night. I'll probably switch to those on the WRX when it's time.

-Dennis

hsub · January 2003

In my size, 225/60R16, TireRack currently lists them at $92 - and as you say that's without mounting, balancing, valves & shipping - not to speak of hassle. So going to a retailer seems to make sense.

My feeling is that selling prices for these tires probably have risen since Consumer Reports gave them a good writeup a few months ago.

paisan · January 2003

If you do a lot of cornering in dry, go with the 5000s, the A2s though are excellent tires as well and a bit cheaper.

-mike

hsub · January 2003

We're pretty tame drivers.

And with our 6 month winters up here, I thought we needed the extra snow/ice traction.

hondafriek · January 2003

Stay away from whatever crap the dealer offers as rustproofing, the only thing good about dealer rustproofing is the big fat profit he makes on it.

If you have your car done with either Krown rustproofing or Rust check rustproofing you will have no problems with rotted rubber seals, I have been having my cars done for over twenty years with one or the other of these products and never had a problem.

I hope this address,s any queries that you had.

Cheers Pat.

ecnivc · January 2003

I have a 98 Forester with 70,000 miles. After spending thousands to get my short block replaced (out of warranty)I am wondering to how many people this has happened? The car is well maintained and I am a little hot under the collar after this experience. Subaru paid for half the cost of the new block. Any feedback would be appreciated.

psg · January 2003

have them mounted at Costco. The money saved will easily pay for the cost of the yearly membership. I bought the Aquatread 3s I mounted on our '95 Legacy L from TireRack. The locals couldn't even come close on the price. As far as shipping, the tires came via UPS. The UPS driver delivered them while we were at work and carried them around to the back of the house, placing them inside my screened in porch. I did have to put them in the back of the Soobie and carry them over to Costco. Costco mounted, balanced, provided valve stems, and free lifetime rotation for $40.00. I will never buy tires any other way again.

Good luck!

Phil

zman3 · January 2003

Why was it replaced?

paisan · January 2003

Yup excellent choice for you guys. I put A2s on my dad's Sonata, they were the best ones that fit it.

-mike

kens · January 2003

I'm curious too since I own a 98 Forester myself. What was the reason for needing a shortblock replacement? That's some pretty major surgery. Did you try and work with SOA to see if they could help somehow? While you were clearly out of warranty, that's a major repair that typically doesn't happen.

Ken

cptplt · January 2003

just remember that any aftermarket rustproofing , incl dealer installed, if it involves any holes being drilled, esp into sealed box sections, will almost certainly void your factory rust warranty. Rust proofing really shouldn't be necessary these days with galvanized steel, what every car owner needs to do though is make sure any paint chips are touched up right away. Cars rusting from inside out are almost unheard of these days, its always starts when the paint has been chipped etc or around some opening to the exterior.

Betty Dukakis - reminds me of a joke I heard when I was in hospital during the '88 election. What do they call those little packets of alcohol wipes in Boston?
A Betty Dukakis after dinner mint!

gened1 · January 2003

Being that you live in Rochester did you check out Nokian tires? They seem to have a good rep especially the all season and snow handling part. The closest they are available to me (Syracuse) is Rochester and eventually I may have to take the trip.

cptplt · January 2003

etires.com sell them (NOT etire.com)
I have had NRWs this season, quite nice but ice traction seems less than true wintertires

nygreg · January 2003

I buy my tires at tirerack and have them mounted at Costco. Costco charges ~$10 per tire. With that you get new stems, free lifetime rotation and balancing and free fixes for flats. My set of A2s were installed on my OB that way. I will soon be using the same route for my Sienna. They even use a torque wrench!

Greg

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