Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

hammerhead · November 2007

I thought (I could be wrong) that the 90's manuals were a constant 50/50 front/rear split... to my mind that's an advantage of the MT over the automatics. After driving it for 6 years, I've become accustomed to the feel.

Cheers!
Paul

phil2000 · November 2007

After 1.5 hours of work, I have the timing belt starring me in the face. In the morning when there is more light I will take some pictures and post them.

The marks are the belt are shifted to the right by one tooth from the marks on the sprockets. I am going to check it again when there is more light. I will mark the belt then align the marks according to the service manual. Then run the engine.

ateixeira · November 2007

My Forester was fun in those conditions.

Basically in a turn while on the throttle, you could get the rear end to break loose. But when it did, power shifts to the front axle and it pulls you out of the skid.

It was amazingly controllable, and repeatable. Just stay in the throttle, smoothly.

If you get REAL good at it, you can then slide the tail out in the other direction, and catch that skid, too.

Disclaimer: this was done in an empty parking lot. Make sure it's really empty!

eesti76 · November 2007

I too have a 2000 outback whose retractable cargo cover will no longer retract, and was told by the dealer that all i could do was buy a new one, seems ridiculous. Any ideas for a fix?????!!!!!!

samiam_68 · November 2007

Might be too difficult to fix. It's a wound spring that probably either snapped or got weak due to age. New ones are a little over $200.

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partlistbymod.php?model=Outback&subcat=Cargo- +Curtain%2C+Rear+Privacy&year=2000

xwesx · November 2007

my Forester is a SOHC if that makes a difference

Oh, sorry about that. If that is the case, then is it really an interference design? The 2.2L DOHC was non-interference while the 2.5L DOHC was interference. SOHC means the valves cannot possibly interfere with each other. It would surprise me if they made the engine with the piston interfering with the valves a possibility. The 2.5L DOHC's pistons did not interfere with the valves, though the valves (intake and exhaust) would interfere with each other. In fact, the pistons actually had divots in them that matched the angle of the valves. I played around with them when I had the engine out of the car the second time (the one photographed on my web page), and even with the intake or exhaust valves fully open, the pistons did not experience any added resistance.

Anyway, you posted that you had it opened up and it looks like the timing might be off a tooth, so continue to let us know how it goes.

phil2000 · November 2007

Well, it appears that the belt was shifted over one tooth on all alignment points. Though I did feel the left cam sprocket was of by one tooth.

Put everything back together which took a little work. Everytime I put the idler in or the tensioner, the belt would jump it marks. Then I got smart I would put a c-clamp on both cam sprocket and a spring clamp on the crank sprocket just to hold it in place. Once everything was back and no extra parts, I started it up. It ran as before. It seems different but still misses during idle. Next is the compression test and while I am at it replace the plugs, I think they were due anyway.

paisan · November 2007

I thought (I could be wrong) that the 90's manuals were a constant 50/50 front/rear split... to my mind that's an advantage of the MT over the automatics. After driving it for 6 years, I've become accustomed to the feel.

In normal driving conditions with no slippage you have 50/50 torque split, however it works similar to a limited slip diffy, in that if there is an axle set spinning faster (front or rear) than the other one, it takes power away from that axle and puts it toward the other axle, until it gets to a 50/50 split. This is done via a viscous coupling internal to the transmission. On the ATs its an 80/20 split and uses clutches/electronic sensors in the transmission to move power toward the rear if one axle is slipping more than the other.

Each system has advantages and disadvantages. MT advantage is that it has more power to the rear than the ATs initially so it is less likely to loose grip. The AT has the advantage that it can shift 80% power to the rear if need be and is slightly quicker than the viscous MTs.

-mike

snowbrom21 · November 2007

Could it be? Could my Outback problems be over?

It seems that way. Apparently the most recent break down was due to a loose harness that the dealer did not install properly after replacing the ECU. The tightened up the connection and drove the car 200 miles with no issues. I picked it up yesterday and got a call today from Subaru of America. They are going to upgrade the car's warranty to the Gold Standard package with 100,000 mile - 6 year warranty.

Hopefully the warranty won't be needed but its good to see that they are willing to stand by their car.

xwesx · November 2007

Hey, that is great! I truly hope you have no more issues with the car, as there is no worse way to lose confidence in a vehicle than to be stranded on the side of the road over and over again.

There were 220,000 miles on my 1996 Outback and it broke down exactly one time, at 199,000 miles. The problem was my fault though (forgot to torque down a bolt when performing maintenance 7500 miles earlier) and no harm came of the stranding, so once I had fixed the error and put the car in working order, my family remained confident that the car would get us there and back. Confidence in me, however, may have waned. I am not sure how my wife keeps enough faith in me to let me do anything after 8 years of witnessing my recurring follies!

ateixeira · November 2007

Good news, hope that's all it was. So simple!

phil2000 · November 2007

Yes, a slight modification to the problem. The idle is bad but smoother.

If I replace the spark plugs, how do I adjust the timing?
On my previous car, I would turn the distributor ever so slightly.

My mileage is still sitting around 25mpg with the problem.

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2007

Good info, thank you. I'll try to remember about keeping some power on during a skid
(where's a driving course when you need one? ;-) )

The sales rep (then me) did a demo where left side of outback was on asphalt, right side on gravel, and floored it. Car took off in straight line w/ no weaving. When he slammed on brakes, all wheels on the road, the car simply slowed down without wheels chattering __or__ ABS sounding like it was trying to pound itself thru the firewall.

I wonder how good those Bridgestone 92A's really are (Tire Rack ratings weren't very good), and if I should ditch them for something "better" a few months later...

phil2000 · December 2007

I tried doing donuts with my 2000 Forester a few years ago. The AWD just would not let me. Also, during some bad weather I had to come to a sudden stop before I plowed into a vehicle ahead of me. It stopped with room to spare and no skidding.

hypov · December 2007

Take is certainly good news, and SoA extending the warranty to 100k/6Yrs is icing on the cake.

Wishing you happy motorings from here on

-Dave

ebony5 · December 2007

The Emergency Brake Light has come on even though the brake is not engaged. This seems to have happened when the weather is cold. Though the light is on I do not think the brake is engaged though I am not sure. A couple of times it was on then it went off. My questions are- What could be causing this to happen? Is it damaging my vehicle? What can be done to rectify the situation and how much could it cost? Finally if it is only a malfunctioning light; can I just disregard it all together and keep on driving? I was on the New Jersey Turnpike today with it on and it did not seem affect the vehicle. Any insights are appreciated.

samiam_68 · December 2007

Your brake fluid is probably low. Check and top off if necessary.

paisan · December 2007

Your brake fluid is probably low. Check and top off if necessary

Your brake fluid is low, but you SHOULD NOT TOP OFF. It generally means that your pads are low (and thus more fluid is being pushed into the calipers) and you should have your brake pads replaced, and at the very least checked. We specialize in brakes at my shop, racing and otherwise, and 99% of the time, when we see the brake light on it's time for pads.

-mike

xwesx · December 2007

The timing is fully computer-controlled using the crank, cam, and knock sensors. There is no adjusting it, as far as I know.

ebony5 · December 2007

Thanks. What is a ballpark cost estimate to replace the brake pads? My car has always been serviced at a Subaru dealership service department, Would there be substantial savings if I go elsewhere?

ebony5 · December 2007

My car has about 94k on it and I last had the brake pads replaced at 66 and 68k in 2004. Would this be considered the normal wear cycle?

paisan · December 2007

That's actually very good wear. Generally subarus go for pads every 30-40k miles on the WRX and Legacy GTs Slightly more than that for the non-turbo cars.

A dealer will charge probably $500-600 for pads all around.
An indy shop will probably charge $350-400 for pads all around.
If you buy the parts yourself it will likely cost around $75 if you do it yourself.

Also you may want to get new front rotors as most subies need them around 90k in the front.

-mike

xwesx · December 2007

Holding tongue.... Significant amounts of stop-&-go driving can wear pads out pretty quick.

If you were up for an hour of fun, you could easily replace the pads yourself. You might also have your tires rotated and the pad levels checked to find out if they really need it. If they do not, where did your fluid go?

phil2000 · December 2007

Well Folks,

I took compression readings and here are the numbers. For cylinders 1-4: 165, 190+, 120(did not hold), and 210. It seems the number 3 has a bad valve and I do not know what to make of number 1. Any thoughts on the readings?

It me two hours at 38 degrees F with winds at 30 mph to take the readings in put in new plugs. So much fun this time of year doing the work in my driveway. But with that said, I look forward to taking the head off and getting the valve replaced. And then it will run like it did from the factory {smile}.

xwesx · December 2007

I feel for you. I spent nearly 8 hours in my driveway (on the February pack ice, with a nice bone-chilling wind) when I had to fix the crank pulley. Happily, the dollar cost was only $36.01!

2 and 4 are on the same side, as are 1 and 3. If there is a problem with the compression on 1, it should be addressed while the head is off. The compression on my car netted anywhere from (I think it was) 156 to 205 PSI, but I could not tell you which was which at this point. I never did another compression test after replacing the head gaskets.

paisan · December 2007

Holding tongue.... Significant amounts of stop-&-go driving can wear pads out pretty quick.

Yes some folks on here like you

take 100k to burn up pads, or like me who go through em in 10-12k miles

I think we fall outside the bell curve though.

-mike

xwesx · December 2007

Yeah, I think so too, which I why I defaulted to agreeing with you on this one!

phil2000 · December 2007

Since the problem is with 1 and 3, it looks a lot easier to repair. All I have to do is remove the curbside/passenger-side head assembly. That side of the engine is quite roomy.

Now, I am toying with the idea of trying to find a U-Pull-It yard and getting a head assembly there. That way I can pop the bad one off and put the replacement in without waiting for a shop to rework it. I might not have to do anything with it. What do you guys think?

Oh, by the way, I'm not much for cold weather even though I live in the northeast. But you are in Alaska, I take my hat off to you.

ateixeira · December 2007

Maybe it's the gasket, and not the valves, since that would affect both cylinders.

Hope so, that would certainly be cheaper to fix.

phil2000 · December 2007

A head gasket would would make my day cost wise. And that side of the engine would be easy.

But it would be some coincidence that the gasket went at the sametime as the pulley.

xwesx · December 2007

You could certainly save some time with that proposition, Phil, but it is also a bit riskier because you do not know that head's history. You would definitely need to make sure the surface was true so as to lessen the possibility of head gasket issues.

I almost feel like you should take a wait-and-see approach, based on what you find when you get that head off there. If time is a critical factor here (you need the car to get you to work, etc), you could always hunt around and find a place with a used head before you tear the car down again, then purchase it later if you determine that to be the best course of action.

phil2000 · December 2007

Wes,
I don't know if you saw the compression readings I took. Cylinders 1-4 respectively: 165, 190+, 120(did not hold), and 210. I was told that it might be a head gasket. But that would mean the gasket failed just before or during the repair of the timing belt pulley failure.

The only way to know is to pull the head then put a new one in. Or, I would either have to have a used one on hand or have the bad one reworked if it is a valve. I could take a chance with the U-Pull-it until the bad one is repaired. If the U-Pull-it is good I won't have to repair the bad one. If the U-Pull is not true I would most likely be in the same place I am in now. A. J. says it might be a head gasket since cylinder one read 165 with a little bit of bleed off and cylinder three read 120 and did not hold pressure at all. Two and four were well over 190. My options: One; I have to find out how much U-Pull wants for the part. Two; do I want to spend two hours in a salvage yard in 30+ degree weather removing the part.

As before, I welcome any comments/suggestions and thank everyone for their input.

Sincerely - Phil

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2007

Any suggestions how I might be able to get the Outback '08 2.5 XT's torque curve a little broader to help decrease turbo lag and make the auto trans version a little more responsive around town?

I'd consider the H6 variant but apparently it has even less low end torque than the Turbo does!

Or do we have to wait until the Outback redesign in '10 to see an improvement like that seen in the '08 Impreza WRX ?

samiam_68 · December 2007

Keep the transmission in Sports mode.

nmgridl · December 2007

The A\C on my '08 Legacy SE is weak. At 90 degrees, it can not completely cool the car. It seems like the A\C is too frequently cycling off.

I took the car back to the dealer and they agreed that the A\C was weak. They said they drove another '08 and the A\C behaved the same. They said the '07 was better, and surmised the '08 has a revised A\C system to maximize MPG. Of course this was months ago, but I wondered if the time that has past it had become "a known problem".

Maybe related, I have a soft whistle that has me puzzled. I only get the sound from 35 MPH to 70 MPH. The sound reminds me of what an turbo or A\C compressor would give off. I wonder if the heating system is doing something based on the load on the engine.

samiam_68 · December 2007

Do you have automatic climate control or a manual system? If manual, put the air mode to recirculated for maximum cooling. If automatic, the system should do it for you.

Having said that, Subaru A/C is well known to be junky. A lot of people find it inadequate. My Forester barely copes with 90+ degree weather. So did my older Legacy, although it was a bit better. Too much cycling on and off.

Also, to make sure the dealer is not blowing smoke about all 08's having weak A/C, I would suggest test driving another 08, just like yours, yourself. But, you will have to wait until summer.

fendertweed · December 2007

I'm in NoVA and probably just about to pull the trigger on an 08 Outback of one sort or another, BUT ... one "must" for me in a car is a decent A/C system, especially with the crappy humid weather in Northern Va.

Any DC/MD/VA area folks or other southerners who can talk to the issue of how Subaru A/C performs in hot, humid weather?

Thanks,

Jon

paisan · December 2007

My AC works fine in my 05 LGT with black interior in NYC Hazy Hot and Humid days. Gets me ice cold that I actually have to turn it down in order to not freeze my hands.

-mike

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2007

There was an article posted at forcedperformance.net about 5 days ago that addresses an apparent ongoing problem with Subaru Turbos and oil starvation.

The problem is a small "Banjo Bolt" that contains a filter. This bolt is responsible for filtering the oil going to the Turbo.

big surprise.... :surprise:

paisan · December 2007

Yeah, and my guess is that this filter gets clogged from folks that don't change their oil filters/oil at 5k miles as suggested for the pre 08s.

-mike

samiam_68 · December 2007

There are two banjo bolts - one on each side of the engine, near the camshafts. They are used to provide oil flow to the AVCS system, not the turbo. There is a service bulletin by Subaru to remove the small filters inside the bolts because sometimes they break and clog the line, causing problems with AVCS, most common of which is rough idle. These filters are not needed and can be removed before they break. You can either do it yourself of have the dealer do it.
Reference service bulletin TSB 02-97-05 AVCS Union Screw Filter Removal. This applies only to 2004 Turbo Forester XT. Later models don't have these filters anymore.
Look on scoobymods for more info.

jeffmc · December 2007

Especially with the large glass area in the wagons, tinting the windows makes a big difference. Dark tint or light tint, it's all good... any tint helps tremendously.

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2007

forcedinduction was pretty specific in their 12-1-07 post, but yes, they did comment that removing the screens in the banjo bolts would help.

part of the doc text follows:

"Turns out that there is an oil filter screen built into the factory oil feed banjo bolt at the cylinder head, and Subaru wants it either serviced regularly or removed completely in order to avoid turbocharger oil starvation and failure. The Subaru Service Technicians (from dealerships) we interviewed on this subject reported recurring turbocharger failures even on completely stock 2.5 WRX, STi, Forrester and Baja vehicles due to this problem, prompting an Official Subaru Service Bulletin in October 2007.
................
This turbo screen is not to be confused with the screen that filters the oil for the AVCS valve which does not affect turbo oil supply since it is after the "tee" that splits off the oil supply line to the turbo."
forcedinduction.net

so should I get a subie with turbo, I'll keep that, as well as using synthetic oil, fully in mind.

paisan · December 2007

Yeah, I've seen blown turbos on subies, but 100% of them were due to either:

A) Poor maintenance (10k oil changes w/non-synthetic)

Poorly done upgrades (higher boost levels, ECU upgrades w/o proper supporting upgrades, etc)

On stockers taken care of properly I haven't seen any failures. If you drive it hard you should be doing 3k-4k oil changes anyway. If you drive it like a little old lady to church on sunday then 7k is probably ok, but who buys a turbo to drive like a little old lady?

-mike

ensino · December 2007

I have a 93 Subaru Legacy.It started to have problems with the idle while stopped at a light. The RPM's will fluxuate from 500 to 1500 rpms sometimes to the point of killing the engine.

The maddening thing about this, is that it is very sporadic. It happens usually when engine is hot.

Anyone have any suggestions? These are the things that I have tried:

Changed plugs and cables
Changed fuel filter (2x's)

Any suggestions would be great! Thanks

slegacy93 · December 2007

I have a 93 Legacy as well and had the same problem. I had my oxygen sensor replaced and that solved it. Are you also having trouble starting up the car at times?

Hope this helps.

ateixeira · December 2007

I can ease your concerns...

It's not so much the cooling capacity, which is actually fine, it's the temperature controls and especially the defrost.

People don't like that the auto climate control takes control away from them basically. Also, the temp sensor aren't always consistent.

kurtamaxxxguy · December 2007

One other forum I've visited had a lengthy topic regarding Subaru Hesitation due to, in 2005, their adopting the "throttle by wire" (electronic control of throttle) approach.

Is this fact or fiction? Is it more acute with Turbos? That's the last thing I need when driving in heavy traffic.

FYI, My Malibu Maxx also uses throttle by wire, and has no hesitation issues.

xwesx · December 2007

I have noticed that stomping the pedal extracts a slower response from the vehicle than easing into it. Easing into it, the thing will take off like a rocket. When passing, a quick punch about 1/2 - 3/4 down will elicit a fast response to shift down 2 gears, but stomping it to the floor causes a short delay before it performs the same action. I am not sure if it is caused by TBW, but I never experienced delays with my old '96 Subaru, even though it also performed better with more controlled movements of the pedal. Because of this, I expect it likely is related to TBW.

Intuitively, I doubt it would be any different for the turbo versions save for the added power punch when the turbo itself kicks in, making it feel like there is some extended lag even if there is not.

paisan · December 2007

No TBW issues or hesitation in my 05 LGT Wagon, even on the race track.

-mike

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