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Comments
Remember when it comes to that misfire code, that valve or whatever only has to screw up once in a blue moon during a 100 miles before that computer picks up the change in rpm drop then throws that stupid code. I hope that to be the case, then you could very well get away with changing the oil brand and oil filter over a little time. Don't forget the old Marvel Mystery oil. Hold off on that thought though until you see what Lucas does. I have pulled Marvel out a few times in the past before doing a tear down. It has bailed me out as well when I least expected it. Sure beats a tear down any day.
Will try to review your message history. You have one of the fun codes to resolve.
Now, looking at your compression readings.... there may be your misfire answer. 1-220, 2-235, 3-195, 4-220. I have re-arranged, assuming firing order 1-3-2-4. Everyone else, pay attention here. One of the things I hate about OBD II! Old days, I would have no problems with this engine, but OBD II does and so does Uncle Sam. Here is why. Re-arrange to 1-200, 3-195, 2-235, 4-220. Here is most likely the cause for misfire code on this engine: look closely at the readings. You will see two lower reading cylinders followed by two higher readings. Those two higher reading cylinders will produce more power than the two lower reading cylinders which will eventually be picked up by the computer as a misfire code on 1 and/or 3 because those are the lower compression/lesser power output cylinders. Add any other small variable on an occasional basis from poor re machining work from valve job, you are screwed with a code.
There goes the sticking valve hope.....your previous posts shot that thought down somewhat. Okay.... patience is cheaper than replacing the car. Time and observance may pay off in the long run still. It has served well in the past on high mileage units around here. So let's use that tool. Wes, seems to know it well also. I see you have dealt with cats, O2's and antifreeze. What about oil loss. Is any burning? The higher mileage Subs here, 240K seem to leak it out the back end from the oil gallery cover, and 'O" rings. I still replace crank shaft seals and clutches while back there also. Even with synthetic oil, they are very tight on next to no oil usage. I hope the same for yours
If Lucas improves things, oil loss is next to nil, I would consider a synthetic oil with no additives and hopefully that will take of any strange variables out there adding to the unbalanced compression readings and reduce that misfire code problem.
Intake Manifold gaskets....little late to mention it, but were the surfaces flat and square checked by a machinist. Takes very little to cause an air leak and a misfire code there as well. But that would not be an occasional thing. Keep that thought under your hat.
Time to let this stuff churn in the old brain for a while and read some more of your posts later.
Now for the transmission. This particular car I know little about, but in general it is not a very good idea to shift any transmission while it is under a full load. Even in an auto, I back off the load before I force a downshift on an auto. Yes, I know it has clutches inside it. But those do not work like most people think they do! They work completely opposite of a manual setup. Bottom line is you are forcing parts to change position while under a load and that can get nasty at times especially if you decide to put it in "R" for Race as the old joke goes then wondering why it blew all apart.
Again, for safety sake, that person needs to be in the back seat!
I am hoping for an answer to the question about the transmission itself: what sort of damage could have occurred?
I did find both A/C charging valves were bad, (an engineer friend found these with less than a 5 minute glance under the hood). One of these is located right near the air intake for the cabin. This was after the heater box was replaced and I was still having problems. Several people/mechanics have suggested that there is a coolant leak (none from Subaru, however). So, you are dead on. No one has mentioned the evap core. I'll have to look into that as well. Unfortunately, I have no way to check for heater core leak, as it is inside the heater box and relatively inaccessible.
Then, there is the other "known" Subaru problem of some oil on a gasket that can last for 15 months+.
So, yes, I've definitely been breathing the refrigerant, and it is not nice stuff to be breathing. I've also been breathing the oil blend that was on this gasket which also causes a window film. And then again, there could be other items that I am breathing and these in combination do who knows what to me.
I'm just hoping that I don't end up with the multiple chemical sensitivity problems that you have and that once Subaru agrees to replace my Forester with another that I will be home free with no permanent damage. At this point, I can't be sure of that however.
Sorry to hear of your health issues as well. I have some friends who have similar problems, some of which are very debilitating.
Thanks for your comments.
That is why I don't think it is a typical problem and am surprised Subaru won't just do the right thing and swap this car out for another like vehicle. I suppose the lawyers are worried about admitting anything is wrong.
Can't complain about ours, it's been great. New car smell has subsided and my wife is thrilled overall.
Funny thing is my 1998 model has a far worse smell than the 2009, in fact I used to call it "new car stench".
I am driving a 2000 (hence user name) Forester. As of this post it has 296,856 miles on it. Over the last two fill ups I am getting 25+ mpg. At time the engine runs smooth as glass. Other times it has a slight miss. I reset the codes today (P0301 & 0420).
The Forester leaks a drop or two sitting overnight. When I am underneath the car, I see some sepage. I thought about steam cleaning the engine to locate it. But am waiting to hear the pros & cons. I have lost a little less that a quart after 4K miles of driving.
Speaking of driving, I average 84.6 miles a day. With 64 miles of that on the highway. I am basically a highway drive (62 mph) with a heavy use of my cruise control (even at 35-40 mph).
I wouldn't even think twice/worry about that unless it increases noticeably.
Your driving style & habits are made for getting the kind of high mileage/long life you have IMO.
4k miles/quart doesn't even validate the cost of steam cleaning!
Potential wet wires, coils, etc. may come with the cleaning.
You, like my older brother, drive the heck out of these things. He brings his all the way from St.Louis area to Baton Rouge area for me to pull service on a pm basis. He is currently dropping 5K a month on an 03. It is overdue for for second timing belt change and a lot of major pm.
Sounds simple.....not. Class one coming. I have been watching for years since the first timing belt units came out trying to beat the auto industry at their game in making older cars self destruct if you forget to maintain something. I think you have already learned that ordeal. One past time is shopping for parts at a junk yard or deciding more recently what new car to buy, Lots of forensic info out there. I look at odometers of so many knowing the average person only does gas and maybe oil. 100K is nothing. 150k is still a piece of junk off the showroom floor. Subaru's though have always caught my attention. 170K to 200K and in the yard they go. They can be very hard to determine why they are even in the yard. I think most people just say, "its time for a new one." Wrong. There is a lot of life left in these things, if you do not mind paying the penalty at the pump. So the battle continues with OEM looking for ways to junk them out quicker while I look for ways to keep them longer.
Class lesson two: This was a hard learned one!!!! Experience has taught me the best way to handle a timing belt unit is crank, cam and belt at first belt change. 2nd belt change is fun. Everything that has to do with that belt hits the trash. Belt, seals, idlers, tensioners and water pump. Any one of these as I think you have noticed fails, and you have bought at least a valve job for a headache. No leaks aloud in that area! Use a good quality belt. In fact it never pays to use cheap parts
At that point, you might as well service the rest of the cooling system with new hoses and thermostat. You are in there spend a little more time for reliabilty.
Oh, you may have already noticed, wheel bearings are pretty dry at this point. If you burn one of them up, you also have to replace the housing assembly. Working on a way right now not to have to pull those bearings out after 200K. Will be testing it out next half shaft change. Use only synthetic grease in those bearings.
You definitely have discovered one of the best kept secrets in auto repair. Use that cruise control and limit jack rabbit starts. Keep top speed down. 60-65 makes that engine last even longer especially with a 5 speed manual. I am starting to see a few 6 speeds coming out on the market now. The lower you keep that engine rpm, the longer it lasts. Run it like a diesel keeping under 2000 rpms and 300K miles is easy to achieve! Exactly why auto makers do not want to put in six speeds. I have found 1.5 to 1.6 liter with a 5 speed tranny or better to give the best overall mpg using as much coasting I can get away with. That puts quit a punch into mpg towards the thought of a hybrid.
Another good secrete is a dealer who will work with you on inside info. Since my units are higher mileage than the dealer I deal with, deals with, I pass service info back to him for his customers. One bit of such info is most likely part of your oil leak. When I bought a new crank gallery cover, which is a failure item on the original plastic ones. I wanted a new "O" ring for the other oil gallery cover. he told me, never had one fail. I told him that "O" is not worth my time to go back after if it does. He told me it is $5. I told him no problem, I want one. A week later, while waiting for parts to come in, I told him it was a good call. After cleaning the back of the engine, both that "O" ring and that gallery cover had small leaks. The rear main seal was dry as a bone. Always change that seal when you are back there! reason is, with a mineral based oil, seals dry out then they begin to cut a ridge in the shaft making a worse leakage problem when you do repair a leak. Yup, they make those redi-sleeves, but they do not last long. Take your vin to a dealer and check the rear of the engine to see if you have those covers back there. If so, I will lay big odds those are your leaks! Every one I have seen so far has done it! Oh, I had to find and use a hand held impact driver to remove the screws.
As for cleaning, I use a warm engine with a bit of engine cleaner, brush and hose off with a garden hose. Try to avoid electronics. This has worked okay with the 94, 97 and a little bit has been done to the 03. proceed with caution on your 00 since I have not done much cleaning on the 03 here. I hesitate on steam cleaning for two reasons. Steam rises, sometimes into electrical parts you wish you never saw the price tag on. Hence why I say a warm, but not hot engine. Second, most steam cleaners operate at too high of a pressure causing impact damage to sensitive parts.
The 97 is a Brighton wagon weighing at a truck scale at 3000lbs. It has been pulling according to my brother about 28 mpg usual to a rare best 32 mpg. I suspect the Forester to pushing better than 3500lbs. So you are doing well given the mileage and weight, but if you are like me, you are looking for a way to draw out another mpg out of it.
One thought about the miss. Looking at a few junk car units in the past, I found a high voltage crack on the back side of the coil facing towards the intake manifold on a couple of 100+K units. Might pay to pull off the coil and look for flash markings and any small cracks in the case. Be nice to nail that misfire problem with that thought. Those parts are pricey, so try to get one from O'Reilly's with a lifetime warranty. Keep the receipt in a file.
Class over....chuckle. Nice to have a student. Am curious if you have had any trouble with half shaft play on the inboard CV joints fitting on the output shaft coming out of the transaxle. If so, what was the remedy? We are slowly testing the current solution to see how it holds up.
You are right about replacing parts. Some item when they fail take other things with them and it can be costly. I need to replace boots and the like over the next year before they fail. I am on my second clutch/transmission (original could not go into reverse or stay in 5th - 180,000 mi.
I had a inner CV boot fail on the roadside. Went to put in a half shaft by taking out the pinch bolt for the ball joint. It broke right off. A dealer suggested that method. But the one that I normally work with said that was the wrong path. They detach the strut and do a wheel alignment afterwards. I had to get a junk knuckle. And I have not noticed any play.
What is "crank gallery cover"?
I am not going to steam clean. It is to problematic. Also, I am happy with the mpg. It is better than some new vehicles get off the lot.
If I had a second vehicle, I could spend more time on repair and doing PM's on the Forester.
I keep my cars until they are beyond my ability to repair or our family out grows them.
I had a1985 Chrysler Laser the had 196,000 miles before it threw a rod and was getting 24+ mpg. I overhauled that engine at 176,000. I also had a 1992 Nissan Sentra. I donated it to charity before I bought the Forester. It had 229,000 miles and no engine work getting 30+ mpg.
Sorry, I thought this would be a good place to ask a question about Subaru transmissions. I'll try one of the Tribeca forums.
Good mechanics never assume anything when it comes to cars, but we can nail something many a time talking shop with another one.
Yup, another way for the dealer to make money. Do an unnecessary wheel alignment. Then again, these Yankee cars are a real pain to break either end of the ball joint loose. I think it is called rust! Even me dropping the lower control arm with the entire knuckle assembly and carefully beating that ball joint out proved to not be easy. Once that was separated, I used a 20 ton press to try to press the stud out of the lower control arm. That was not a lady like day for me. Even the 20 ton press had a bad time with that thing.
Touch those bolts at the top of the strut and you are right. Alignment time. Does not matter though if it needs one.
Shame to hear about the Chrysler. One of the reason I left American cars. Do a repair and it still comes apart. Some of them are really Mitshibishi. That 92 Nissan I would have drove until it blew up! No telling how far it would have gone. Every mile it went was free! Charity tends to junk those high mileage cars out for $200 because they can not get much for them. They worth more than that riding down the road for us! Just like the 86 Toyota Tercel and 89 Mazda 323. Sure beats car notes! 35+ mpg is nice also.
Do keep oil leakage clean up to a degree. Otherwise if you have an engine compartment fire, that oil will make it harder to put out and easier for it to catch in the first place.
Curiosity, does the a/c still work. The 03 died over a year ago.
"Experience has taught me the best way to handle a timing belt unit is crank, cam and belt at first belt change. 2nd belt change is fun. Everything that has to do with that belt hits the trash. Belt, seals, idlers, tensioners and water pump. Any one of these as I think you have noticed fails, and you have bought at least a valve job for a headache. No leaks aloud in that area! Use a good quality belt. In fact it never pays to use cheap parts."
I'm fairly experienced w/ auto repair/maint. issues but I'm not following what you are saying you do at the first timing belt change. "crank, cam, and belt..."? What exactly are you replacing here: the crank? the cam? It's not clear to me what you're trying to say and it's very puzzling because all the rest makes perfect sense.
I always change belt, seals, idlers, tensioners & WP on every TB change... what am I not understanding about your description of the first TB change?
The Laser had problems just before the warranty ran out. Some day you will have to let me tell you the story. And it is long.
The Sentra I was driving while I fixed the Laser and would alternate driving either one. When the Laser died, I needed a utility vehicle. Also, I got tired of having my daughter crawl out of the back of a two door. Plus, paying insurance on three cars (my 2 and my wife's 1). The charity I donated to was a church that gave the car to a parishioners. They drove it for awhile, then I heard something happen to it MVA.
Is my ignition coil the square block on top of the intake manifold and with the spark wires coming out of it? Thanks
A few months ago the car got side swiped on the passenger side. Both doors had to be replaced and the whole side repainted.
Today, as I was going around with the touch-up paint to cover the rock chips. I noticed on the repaired right rear door that there wasn't any clear plastic protector. After touching up about 5 paint chips I called the dealer.
They said no parts list for the clear plastic protector. They were going to check further.
My question is: Do other 2008 Tribeca's have a clear plastic rock protector on the right rear door?
I would agree with your methodology on a total city car. Then again, what works to prevent down time is what it is all about. Not to mention, different makes like to cause different headaches at times. Glad to see someone else agreeing that cutting corners on these cars is asking for big trouble.
If the lever had only made it to the reverse sector, there probably a rapid slow down to a halt. But, in order to move the gear shift lever, you must also hold in the "shift release" button. And this may also require depressing the brake pedal. IIRC, trying to move the gear shift lever from D to R required pressing the brake pedal (Gov't requirement IIRC).
In the "old days" some people tried moving the shift lever from drive to park while moving along. This usually required a transmission rebuilt. Whereas just moving from drive to reverse when driving along usually meant a rapid slowdown to a stop.
Since I usually drove manual shift cars didn't worry about the above. JMH thoughts.
Glad to have that link in case I have to change a tranny on this end.
Sounds about right on warranty. I laugh when they talk 100K warranty now a days. That means look out after that!
My brother has done the same with donating cars. It always amazes me how some people can not keep a car and destroy one pretty quickly after getting one. I carefully picked the one the 87 Mitz went to. Still in servcie to this day.
Louisiana allows us to turn in tags and drop insurance on a vehicle for a while. But if it is a repair ordeal, I usually go ahead and pay for 3 cars during the repair. After the repair is finished, then I drop the backup back to storage. The old 87 Mitz had a lot of storage time on it. It was time to give it away, before it rotted away in storage.
MNSteve
That sounds right to me. Thanks.
I do my own maintenance, I swear noone is as careful as I would be on my cars.
I took my brand new Sienna to the dealer for a minor flaw in the sun visor, and they replaced it. Along with a bunch of greasy finger prints all over the interior! ARGH! Overall it looked worse, not better.
I swear it's like they just don't care at all.
To their credit, they offered to replace the rear bumper - which means painting it with a high metal-flake silver quartz paint. Its a nice offer, and actually the best they can do, so its appreciated - but I've lost my faith in them and will never go back again for sales, service or parts. The way the rear bumper wraps around to the wheel wells, I know that I would detect a repaint from 20 yards away and it wouldn't hold up. I'll just keep these first battle scars as a daily reminder to never again go to the dealer for any reason. (this was NOT Fitzmall, but a Subaru dealer on my commute from Solomons to Annapolis, fyi) This once beautiful 12 week old car now looks worse from the rear than my son's 94 Legacy.
Someone keyed my van right on the driver's door and it's hideous, plus I see it every single time I get in it, so it's awful.
Rarely is there a breakdown even on a 200K plus unit.
What is it about new cars - how do they attract so many idiots? I have parked so far away with a curb in front and another to one side, to find, upon returning, some idiot parked touching side mirrors.
They keyed a Toyota van? I thought they saved that vandalism for Hummers in this area.
Dead give away to this system is the two hinges on the front of the base seat cushion.
Many thanks
Spark Plugs
Fuel Filter
Spark Plug Wires
Ignition Coil
I bet it's the coil. About $80 wholesale costa, and the 4 cylinders only need one.
Could be a power steering system problem, something in the transmission or the drive train. But I will start you off with, check your power steering fluid level. Make sure it is full and NOT over filled. If you have run it too low for too long, you may have damaged the sytem. I hear many a neglected power steering system going down the street at times making the beginning noises asking for assistance only to be ignored by the owner. After a while, the grinding starts.
Get back to me either way, so we can get to the bottom of this one. That sounbds like one noise you need to know the source of pretty quick.
When I went to back out of the parking Slot it sounded like I'd run over something.
I stopped and looked behind and under the Car but there was nothing.
I got back in and tried backing up again when the sound of something dragging started again.
I pulled forward and the dragging sound continued so I stopped again.
I looked all over but coudn't find anything hanging.
I got my Wife to pull forward slowly and stood beside the Car to see where the sound was coming from.
I figured out it was the Passenger side front Wheel.
I jacked the Car up and removed the Wheel.
When I looked down between the Dust Shield and Brake Rotor I noticed a small object wedged between the Two.
I gently pried the Dust Shield and it fell to the Ground, it was a small Pea Gravel.
After this incident I wonder why Subaru put the Shield so close to the Brake Rotor because I can see this causing damage to the Rotor if not taken care of immediately.
I'd say it's a fluke but if I'm off Road driving on Gravel or somewhere Muddy I could see this really causing problems.
Could someone explain why those Shield are there, if there's some way I could increase the spacing or if I could just remove them all together.
I know the Shields are there for a reason but if it's not a big deal or a safety issue, would it be OK to remove them so this never happens again.
I really don't feel like jacking my Car up and removing the Wheel every time I drive on Gravel or mud...
Maybe the shields are there to keep gravel away from the rotors lol. More likely they are to keep heat away from the brake lines.
Also, before I knew what was going on the sound was so disturbing I was afraid it was more serious like the CV Joints or something.
The noise freaked me out so bad at first I slammed on the Brakes and jumped out thinking I'd find a Kid pinned under the Bumper with his Bike.
The guy gathering shopping Carts looked at me like I was retarded, LOL!
I'd say they're there to protect the Lines from heat like you said.
I just wish they could have spaced them out a little more.
I have seen many a timing belt break upon starting a car up....because that is when the most strain hits them other than putting a heavy foot into the gas. If it is broken, this is an interference engine. The real fun will begin if you decide to repair it!
I agree, it is a scary sound. You are correct to inspect and determine if the sound is a problem or not. Which it was. Excellent parking lot diagnostic skills. Once you have heard this sound, you will know it on any car!
If you can, it is better to decrease the spacing without touching the rotor. Less space means less can get between the parts.
Usually when a manufacter puts something on a car, they have a very good reason other than Uncle Sam! So always find out before you really have a bad screw up.
... yeah, I've been well trained over the past 17+ yrs. (and before by others) by my friend who runs his indep. shop (Porsche/Audi/VW specialists but they do it all) ... cutting corners rarely works out in the long run.
My wife had the same thing happen, and the racket was so intense, I had the car towed to the dealer. I thought for sure it was a major drivetrain component!
Boy, was I embarrassed...
Cheers!
Paul
The more things change, as the old saying goes, the more they stay the same. I have gotten pretty tired over how some manufacters go out of they way to recreate the wheel. Guess in my older years, I just want to Keep It Simple Stupid, KISS.
Just hope it is not the beginning of ALZ! Have enough trouble now figuring where I laid that last wrench I had in my hand! LOL Time for another cold one, it will look better then.
How many times have we taken a stupid code reading to find it is not what the code said it was "so to speak?" I have found the extra info useful, but I still have to think out what is going on in the basics.
Miss those old 70's bugs, we ran the heck out of those when I was going up.