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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    There was a crack below the cap and coolant would stream/shot out. As a temporary fix, I put Plastix Bonder on it and it held, but there was a smaller leak elsewhere.

    I replaced the radiator, thermostat/gasket and lower hose yesterday. After driving awhile the gauge would fluctate, then start to climb. Then if I turned a hard corner it would drop then rise again. The thermostat I purchased from Advance was the one for my Forester, but it looked different from the one I took out.

    I wonder can I run the car without a thermostat.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    edited February 2010
    But without pressure, you probably wouldn't have lost much coolant thru those two spots. That is why my trick can be a lifesaver when you get caught out on the road with a leak. It will even work on a cracked hose. I keep duct tape in the car. If you can find a source of water to add, the lack of pressure will keep a taped hose going for many miles.

    Your comment about change on a hard corner sounds like there may be a air gap or steam bubble forming somewhere, and it shifts around. The temp sensor responds rapidly to being submersed, then in hot air. Best case - you haven't completely bled the system of air. Worst case is that you damaged a HG and keep forming a new bubble that moves around when you corner.

    With OBD-II, I doubt that you could get away with running without a thermostat for too long. The temp sender is one of the things monitored for optimization, and the system would be fighting to control emissions with a cold engine. Eventually, you might cook the cat.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    What is HG?

    How do I get rid of the air bubble?

    The car reaches operating temperature after three minutes, then starts to climb in temperature 11 minutes later. I wonder if my attempt to patch the old radiator from the inside (using foil tape in the upper radiator section) left some pieces in the system that is causing flow issues.
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Certainly sounds like an air blockage somewhere.

    Not sure that it is going to be too helpful in a modern flat four, but the trick used to involve removing top and bottom radiator hoses and thermostat, wedging the garden hose in at the hot return side and back-flushing to try and remove any gunk wedged in the engine. The foil tape does not sound a good idea.

    On some engines there is a coolant bleed valve to remove air set high on the engine, often on the hot water feed or return to the interior heater. The interior heater is usually the highest point in the coolant loop so that it the probable concentration point for any air . If there is no bleed valve, you can try disconnecting the hose there and seeing whether you can force air out.

    It's a tedious job and you may be better served taking it to a radiator shop and getting them to flush and refill.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    Well people. Taking it to a professional is my best bet. I am over my head here. I did my best. Thanks for your help and support.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I came up with one more idea.

    If I can get the nose of the car at a steep enough angle and let it run. The air bubble should work it way to the top of the radiator and maybe in to the overflow tank. Or shut the engine down and let the coolant flow back to the lowest point throughout the engine leaving the air in the radiator where I can fill after a couple of hours.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    That's a good call. I refill my coolant system on the Subaru(s) by parking the car with front wheels on ramps, then, with the cap off, top it off, then rapidly and repeatedly squeeze the upper radiator hose to force fluid movement. I will typically get another pint or two of fluid into the system with this method. I then start the car and let it run with the cap off for about five minutes (system warm) so the thermostat opens and fluid can flow with the water pump. Sometimes, I will even get a little more air out at that point.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I'm sorry, Phil. HG is short for head gasket. If the engine really ran seriously low on coolant with the leak, the sharp rise cylinder head temperatures could have caused a head gasket failure.

    I checked the cooling system section of the shop manual, but don't see any mention of an air bleeder. Wes & Graham gave good advise on flushing and filling. If this doesn't help, then you need professional assistance.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    The older subarus had air bleeders. My son's 94 Legacy has a plastic phillips head screw at the upper left (passenger) side of the radiator. Our newer subarus don't have one. I would gladly have paid the additional 25 cents that it might have cost to include it.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    It is a flow issue.

    Right now the car is in my driveway on ramps to drain the radiator. The engine is at 207'F, the radiator inlet is 107'F and the bottom is 60'F. I am pulling the new thermostat out and putting the old one in. But I am going to try and see if the water pump is moving.

    Though, I should have heard some belt squeal if it was not turning.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    edited February 2010
    I still had the problem after the incline plane idea. It is a flow problem(bottom of radiator is cool and I can touch the top).

    I took of the bottom hose and thermostat, hand cranked the camshaft sprocket and saw that the blades in the water pump turned.

    Next I will see if I can flush water through the radiator with the bottom hose off.

    I can actuate the new thermostat with my fingers. Can't with the old one, but then the problem was a leaky radiator. I will put the new thermostat back in. Or put everything back together without it and see if it overheats to eliminate the thermostat.

    The following is from the shop manual:

    Trouble Corrective action
    Over-heating
    a. Insufficient engine coolant - Replenish engine coolant, inspect for leakage, and
    repair.
    b. Loose timing belt - Repair or replace timing belt tensioner.
    c. Oil on drive belt - Replace.
    d. Malfunction of thermostat - Replace.
    e. Malfunction of water pump - Replace.
    f. Clogged engine coolant passage - Clean.
    g. Improper ignition timing - Inspect and repair ignition control system.
    On-Board Diagnostics II System
    h. Clogged or leaking radiator - Clean or repair, or replace.
    i. Improper engine oil in engine coolant - Replace engine coolant.
    j. Air/fuel mixture ratio too lean - Inspect and repair fuel injection system.
    On-Board Diagnostics II System
    k. Excessive back pressure in exhaust system - Clean or replace.
    l. Insufficient clearance between piston and cylinder - Adjust or replace.
    m. Slipping clutch - Repair or replace.
    n. Dragging brake - Adjust.
    o. Improper transmission oil - Replace.
    p. Defective thermostat - Replace.
    q. Malfunction of electric fan - Inspect radiator fan relay, engine coolant temperature
    sensor or radiator motor and replace there.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    edited March 2010
    My wife used to laugh that I was making thermostat soup. I had a car with a persistent overheating issue in the summer, and the best solution was simply to buy more margin by going with a cooler thermostat (open early). The problem is that thermostats are rather basic/dumb devices that rely on a wax pellet to press against the spring, and the actual opening temperature and amount of lift can vary all over the place. Plus, by design, some open and allow more water to pass than others. Different diameter disks produce different flows. My best find at a automotive swap meet was an old style butterfly type, in which the disk rotates on a hinge, producing almost no restriction when open!

    Anyhow, I set a bunch of them up (hanging - don't let them touch the walls of the pot) with a thermometer on a slow heat, and charted their response to rising temperature. Pretty sick, eh??

    The thermostat is at the bottom of the engine. Is the flow also reversed - in at the top of the radiator, and out the bottom? If so, then the tape you used at the neck is probably no further into the system. If not, you might have ingested it into the engine?
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I was able to pour water through the upper hose and it came straight out of the water pump. Then I poured water through the radiator and it came out of the lower hose.

    Now I am going to put it all together without the thermostat and see how it flows.

    What does that mean for the engine? Details please.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    What does a thermostat do?

    Regulated temperature cooling water is one of the factors that determines cylinder combustion chamber temps, and this directly relates to burn efficiency and emissions. With a thermostat, the coolant will remain right around 200'F. Without it, I suspect it will stabilize around 130-140'F. Somewhere I once read that this 60-70' external change will result in a 100-200'F chamber internal change. Think of how your car runs when it is still warming up, and now it never gets there!

    If the coolant remains below a certain threshold (and this varies engine to engine / year to year), the ECM will never switch from 'open loop' to 'closed loop' emissions control. That means it will continue to use a look-up table/map for determining fuel mixture, and not use the oxygen sensor feedback to regulate activity. Or, if it does go closed loop, the reduced burn efficiency will force fuel trim to the extreme end of the spectrum. None of this is probably good for long term operation. At minimum, you will start to throw codes, you could end up with misfires or a damaged catalytic converter.

    Or, I could be full of BS, and this engine can handle it just fine and you will live happily ever after? Inquiring minds want to know!!
  • atticarjatticarj Member Posts: 1
    Have a 2005 Subaru Forester XS, with 2.5L engine. Purchased new. Have replaced catalytic converter, O2 sensors, power steering pump, and the usual brakes and rotors and timing belt. Approx 5 weeks ago, I was driving at about 45 mph when I noticed that engine RPM started to fluctuate 400-500 rpm, back and forth. After that, the Automatic Transmission Temp light started to flash, and the check engine light came on solid. The car has 139k on it and has has good maint. I took it to the local dealer, where it has been for the past month. They said the codes pointed to the wiring harness for the transmission.They cannot seem to figure out what is causing it, having tried a variety of wiring harness solutions. I have contacted Subaru, and they basically told me what the dealer was doing. Which I knew. At this point, they are planning to splice in ends from another harness, to see whether that works. This is the most bizarre car problem I have ever encountered. To have a dealer and manufacturer unable to repair their own product, and to further have no clue to what is actually going on is mind boggling and costly.

    I have had to buy another car for my wife, but the Forester is worthless as is. If anyone has had any similar problem, or ideas on what might be done to resolve this, I would appreciate the info.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My '98 Forester had the same air bleeder. Haven't checked the new 09 model.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    My '96 Outback had one as well and it was handy for initial fill, but I still found that without inclining it and doing the upper hose squeeze method, significant air would remain in the system.

    The '09/'10 Foresters do not have the bleeders; rather, the cap is mounted atop a raised area on the radiator and serves the same purpose.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I am going to try running the engine without a thermostat. I want to see flow through the radiator to verify that the water pump is moving water. At least the engine will not overheat.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    For a short-term test, it should not harm your engine.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Agree... Older cars you could do this forever. Computer controlled cars will attempt to compensate for a while. See how it goes.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I spoke with a Subaru service. They told before I tried that, make sure all the air is out of the radiator. Now I thought I had accomplished that. But after review a previous reply to my post and discussions at my job, I will give it another go.

    Service recommended three cycles of the cooling fans with top-offs in between. Also, they said to put a funnel assemble on the radiator.

    Well I am going to get that air out everyway I know how (incline plain, squeeze hose, folk dance, etc.)

    Thanks everyone
  • drkwcdrkwc Member Posts: 2
    1991 Subaru Legacy 4 cyl, 2.2L AWD, Manua,l 170,00 miles:

    When the weather is below about 45 degrees outside, my Legacy won't idle smoothly or reliably. Instead, it surges between 0 RPM and about 1,300 RPM, up and down, until it stalls. The colder it is outside, the worse the problem.

    When I take my foot off the accelerator while driving, if the outside temp is in the 20s or 30s (or lower), idle drops to nothing and the engine stalls.
    Both of these related behaviors happen while the engine is warm and while the engine is cold, though at startup wihen the engine is cold, it actually will run smoothly for about 20 to 30 seconds before the surging begins.

    I replaced all vacuum lines, cannister, mass airflow sensor, throttle position sensor, purge solenoid control valve. No change, except that I no longer get a diagnostic code indicating that the purge solenoid control valve is stuck open.

    Since that is apparently NOT the problem, I'm hoping someone will recognize it. It is definitely tied to outside air temperature. On those rare wonderufl winter days here when it's 50 or 60 degrees out, the car runs perfectly smoothly, as it should, no idle issues at all. Soon as the outside temps drop, the surging at idle issue begins.

    A search of the forums here turned up two possibilities:

    1. Leaky intake manifold gasket. I'll check for that.

    2. K&N filter -- which I'm using. Next time I'm in town, I'll pick up a paper filter and see if that solves the problem.

    Any other suggestions?

    --ken
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    It sure sounds like a manifold vacuum leak, but probably from something that is not directly connected to the engine. If it were, it would probably seal up once the engine got warm. It is likely something that is staying relatively cold and leaks only when cold. Wonder if it isn't something like the vacuum brake booster.

    Try looking for things like the brake booster that use manifold vacuum but are not as likely to get warm fast, or at all. Pull those lines one at a time and cap the fitting with your finger.

    Long ago I saw a guy use an unlit Bernzomatic torch with the gas on just a crack as a neat leak detector. He waved it over everything and waited for a response in RPM. >POTENTIALLY VERY DANGEROUS<... yet effective.... I cannot believe I even repeated this. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.... PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    Prayer and faith got my there.

    Prayed that inclining the car and topping off the radiator after each run cycle would solve the overheating.
    Drove to work and back (76 miles). Stayed within two tick marks of center on the gauge.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Well done! You earned your cooling system merit badge.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    It read about 13volts off and 14.46volts running.

    Is there a rebuild kit for the alternator?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Yes, you can rebuild them.

    Congrats, also, on the cooling system - I hope it is a positive sign for future trips! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    Thanks, Other than Pep Boys and Advance (haven't been there yet), do you have a recommended source for a kit? My alternator is the original (314,959 miles).
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    edited March 2010
    I doubt it matters much. Any auto parts store should have a decent rebuild kit... and I would say yours is due for a rebuild or replacement, though the reported voltages sound like it is hanging in there pretty well.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I want to get ahead of the failure curve.
  • ths258ths258 Member Posts: 10
    With the 2009 Outback Limited climate control system, I get air flow from the vents even when the system is off. The temperature of the air flow matches the temperature setting at the time of being turned off. Changing to recirculate before shutting off seems to have no effect, as there still air flow from the center vents.

    Is anyone else having this issue? I want to determine whether it is a problem that can be fixed or is just a 'works-as-designed' function.

    Thank you.
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Subaru climate control systems are designed by aliens. Mean ones. With many sharp teeth. By design, they don't work. Sorry, but you are stuck with it and not much you can do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I call it HAL. ;)
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    3 to 5 years ...
  • drkwcdrkwc Member Posts: 2
    Issue solved.

    It was the Idle Air Bypass Valve.

    I unbolted it, disconnected the air lines, but not the coolant lines, sprayed out the lines and the innards with carb cleaner, then reconnected it. Works like a charm now.

    There WAS quite a bit of gunk in one of the air inlets.

    If the problem returns, I'll pick up one of these valve assemblies at the junkyard and replace mine.

    Best,
    kwc
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Interesting find! On that older model, is it remote from the engine? Far enough away that the condition didn't get better as the engine heated up (thermally isolated)?
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    My overflow tank keeps filling, but the radiator does not draw it back in. Every two days, I remove the tank and pour the coolant back into the radiator.

    I am thinking about removing the lower seal on the radiator cap. This is a new cap from Pep Boys. It is stamped with 16 lbs.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    Subaru OEM Thermostat is specially designed and unique. Do NOT buy other brand or they open & close different the the spec.
    Also change the radiator cap same time as it is cheap.
    Subaru also suggests to use OEM coolant as other coolant may not treat as well to Subie's internal aluminum parts as the OEM coolant.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Member Posts: 1,207
    Open the radiator cap, with engine running, fill the coolant from the raditor slowly. Top it off then close the cap. Repeat if needed.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    That which gets pushed out into the overflow tank as a result of coolant expansion should get sucked right back into the radiator as the coolant contracts, unless there is a leak in the system somewhere. Most likely it is the new radiator cap's upper seal is not tight against the new radiators upper flange. One of them has a burr or other imperfection. The other possibility is that the hose is not sealed to the nipple/barb on the radiator filler neck, or the hose has a crack.

    When the coolant expands, it pushes out against the 16 lbs (yes, I recently realized that Subi systems run at 1.1 - 1.2 ATM pressure). Older caps were 1.0 ATM, or 14.7 lbs. That probably buys you another 10'F upper end on boiling. Anyhow, it is easy once fluid pushes past the lower seal to run out the barb and down the hose into the overflow. It really stays below the top seal without any pressure - gravity does the job. But if the upper seal isn't 100%, when the radiator pressure goes negative, air is pulled in past the upper seal or hose nipple, and no fluid is sucked back against gravity out of the bottle.

    Look for the simple first. If everything is perfect here, it could still be a failed engine gasket that is providing the one way leak of air back into the system.

    Make sense?
  • dryboatdryboat Member Posts: 1
    I have a chance to buy a 1997 Impreza cheap because the rear wheel seems to lock up then release in slow full loch turns. It acts like it has different diameter tires, that can't spin at the same speed. I put the underhood 4wd fuse in , hoping disconnecting the 4wd would prove my tire theory correct. But to my surprise the FWD light didn't appear on the dash, and the rear wheels were still engaged? Secondary fuse?
    Also, can someone tell me the symptoms of a auto trans that has been towed over 20 mph, or has been towed on 2 wheels with 4WD engaged?
    I would appreciate any advice!
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    edited March 2010
    My 99 LGT exhibits similar behavior, but not to the same degree, and only when thoroughly warm - my shop tells me it's the viscous coupling/center diff. I thought it might be something in the rear differential, since it only seems to affect the rear wheels. They suggested I wait til it quits completely, because it's about a $1500 fix.

    Not sure if this helps or hinders your decision, though.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I did change the radiator cap.

    I went cheap on the thermostat though ($11 from Advance, $35 from Subaru). I am now changing my replacement philosphy. Since I am saving money on doing the repairs myself, I can purchase the parts from Subaru. That would eliminate some of the problems I have had.

    I still plan on having Subaru do the Coolant Service, after I replace three more hoses(bypass, supply & return heater).
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Phil, remember that even new parts can be bad. As I wrote to you previously, it sounds like the upper seal isn't, well, sealing to produce the vacuum required to suck fluid back out of the overflow.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    This morning I checked the overflow tank.

    It was full (yesterday it was empty), When I took off the radiator cap, I heard a rush of air and bubbles gurgled up in the overflow tank.

    The radiator cap is from Pep Boys, I am going to Subaru and get another one. It seems like the seal is a little deformed now.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    One other thing to check that I have seen before. Take the lid and hose completely out of the the overflow tank, wrap it in a towel, and set it aside. There is a single 10mm bolt holding the overflow tank in place. Remove it, and gently lift the tank off of the lower retainer. Empty it and clean the insides thoroughly.

    The constant fill and suck out tends to have a cleaning effect on the radiator, depositing a thick layer of sludge in the bottom of the overflow tank. If you used it, that is where a lot of the Subaru Coolant Conditioning (ie stop leak) ends up, along with other garbage. If this level rises above the level of the bottom of the hose, it will clog the end. Coolant will flow into the tank, but no get siphoned back out.
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    Can I change the rear wheel bearings myself? Or is it something I can trust my local garage to do? The dealer ship will want $200+ to do it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've heard it's not simple, you have to press in the bearings. Let the pros do it.
  • girlcarbuildergirlcarbuilder Member Posts: 225
    edited March 2010
    If you have FWD only, then chances are you have a non servicable hub unit which can be pulled off and replaced with a new one. $50-$70 each. The nut that holds it on has to be carefuly unbent to unscrew it. When you put the replacement on, make sure you stake the new nut on. Only replace when it gets noisy. If you are real good at taking one apart without removing seals. It is possible to disassemble and clean, repack before the unit fails.

    Now, if you have AWD or 4wd.....you need a bearing press and a good bit of experience with such tool. Otherwise, you could have an assembly suddenly breaking in the press and flying who knows where. Best left to someone who has done these before. Here again, if you repack around 150-170K, you can avoid having to press in new bearings! Same interval applies to the hubs!

    Be careful not to drive too long with little grease in them. Because if you over heat the knuckles, the bearing opening will distort and the new bearing will fail early. trick to avoid that is to service early again.

    Two choices basically. Drive till it fails, 240K or more and replace everything including possibly the knuckle. Or service around 150K-170K and just have new seals, some cleaner and new grease. Currently using the Valvoline full synthetic in road tests. About $8 for a small can.
  • sus77sus77 Member Posts: 1
    edited March 2010
    I am hoping the Subaru crew can help me out once again.

    My 1999 2.5 Subaru has never had any problems except for the known separator plate leak. My mechanic fixed the plate with the new metal one. When he fixed the plate problem, he took the engine out and then put it back in the car. The leaks are gone, but I have a new issue.

    It happens (usually) once a day and the problem happens at different times and road conditions. After I come to a complete stop, I can try to accelerate and the car starts moving with heavy hesitation. Its almost like someone is grabbing the front wheels. If you apply more pressure to the gas pedal, the car will continue to accelerate at a slow pace. Eventually when the car gets to 2nd or 3rd gear, the car accelerates at an expected pace. There are no noises or smells. When this problem happens, it is like the car is operating on a 40 to 50% acceleration reduction.

    The mechanic did change my transmission fluid and he is a trusted mechanic. But the problem will not replicate on demand and the car is not giving any error codes.

    Help - any ideas?
    Jason Nance
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