Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

locke2c · December 2006

It's impossible for me to assign a meaningful statistical value, but I do know numerous people that have had head gaskets fail repeatedly.

So I would opine that, no, it does not mean that you're set for another 100k miles.

~Colin

c_hunter · December 2006

I think it's probably a fundamental design flaw that could reoccur. I am not aware of any re-engineering of the gaskets that would permanently fix the problem.

zman3 · December 2006

Well then, I will consider myself fortunate that I got another 50K out of my 98 OB with no re-occurrence before trading it in.

pathtomax · December 2006

I just replaced my timing belt a few months ago. I have always been very good about any preventative maintenance- this is the one thing that I didn't worry about even though it was leaking last year. My bad.

Well, I start back to my daily commuting grind of over 100 highway miles a day starting in January. This car was with me for the last 3 years with heavy highway driving of 36k miles a year. I will be back to about 30k miles a year come January. I hope to get at least 2 more years (160k miles) out of the car.

ateixeira · December 2006

While that's true, there are also many of us still on the original gaskets, 9 years and 91k miles and mine are fine.

Dad has an '01 Outback and it's fine, too.

Of course I just jinxed myself.

-juice

c_hunter · December 2006

My old 2000 Outback now has over 120K miles on it with my folks, and no gasket problem there (yet) either.

ladywclass · December 2006

i'll just tag onto yours and add the jinx to yours .. but i'm at about 85,000 and ok with a 2001 Outback

bayarea_s40 · December 2006

Hi. Newbie to this forum, so please forgive a simple question. We've had a '99 Forester, and are keeping it. Now we also have an '07 Forester XT Sport. I want to know if I can move the Trailer Hitch from the '99 to to the '07. The local Subaru Parts dealer has actually not been very helpful. Wouldn't even tell me if the Part # for the two models is the same or different. This swap makes sense to me, as the '07 is stick-shift with a stronger engine, and, if I do it myself, I save $230+.
Thanks.

paisan · December 2006

I doubt it would fit.

Also stick is less-fit for towing than an AT.

-mike

kavoom · December 2006

>>Also stick is less-fit for towing than an AT<<

I don't think so. You will need a new hitch but I'd go for an after market Class II hitch. The Subaru hitch is rated at 2,000 lbs while the vehicle is rated at 2400 lbs.

You have to add a cooler if you are going to tow any weight at all (with an AT) up any incline at all. I had 13K out of 43K miles all over the U.S. It was great.

AT is fine too. And before 03 Subaru rated the AT's less than MT's. And unless they have improved that 4EAT it spends most of the time hunting and searching for a gear while towing..

kavoom · December 2006

Oh, the new suspension on the 06's and 07's may be problematic with towing. I have heard about a two inch drop and wallowing. I am getting STI pinks (springs) put on today and will let you know. They will drop the ride about an inch and stiffen it up. I am retrofittng my Class II hidden hitch at the end of the month. Once I tow, I'll let everyone know.

I don't know much about performance, but I do know towing with a Forester.

paisan · December 2006

Older models had the AT actually towing higher than MTs and in general towing people say ATs are better than MTs. Hidden Hitch is the way to go that's what I put on my Trooper, great hitch.

To be honest I wouldn't be towing much with any Subaru, remember you want to tow about 25% less than whatever the manufacturer recommends as the max towing to comfortably tow on any vehicle.

-mike

kavoom · December 2006

Subaru minimizes the towing capability of Foresters (all subys) in the U.S.

In Australia they list the tow rating above 3,000 lbs. YOu can get Class II and even a weight distributing hitch. Same for the U.K. where Subaru won best tow vehicle for like two years in a row. That 25% thing is because American tow ratings do NOT take into account what is in the tow vehicle. So you have to subtract things like the driver and passengers and dog and kids and cooler from the tow rating...

The Subaru has a "pure" rating as in as long as you do not exceed the GVWR you can tow 2400 lbs.

The concensus is that SOA downgrades the towing capability in North America because we are a sue happy culture.

paisan · December 2006

I'm not gonna argue with you. I'm trading in my Armada and will tow with a Forester to it's full capacity....

Whatever you say. I've been towing for years and unless you are towing a tiny trailer, a Subaru just isn't gonna do it.

-mike

ateixeira · December 2006

Relax, mike, Subaru of UK allows up to 3960 lbs towing even with the dinky 2.0l models.

So the SoA numbers are already very conservative.

Having said that, I wouldn't want to tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle itself, you don't want the tail wagging the dog. Leave plenty of space ahead of you to stop.

And BTW I agree that it's a bit easier to tow with an automatic, because you get torque multiplication since it allows a bit of slip. On a manual the clutch absorbs all that punishment.

-juice

dsl24 · December 2006

Anybody have this problem? That is, when I start my 2006 Outback with a cold engine it immediately races up to about 3000 RPM and stays there until I drive a little bit. I am not touching the gas at all.

This does not happen when the engine is warm.

The dealer claims that there is nothing wrong, but I think there is.

Thoughts?

locke2c · December 2006

3,000 rpm is a bit high. the normal cold idle fast start should be more like 1,500 to 2,200 rpm MAX.

assuming that you are not mistaken or exaggerating a bit and 3,000 is correct, I'd ask the dealer to ensure that the following are working properly:

idle air control motor (IAC)
manifold temperature sensor
coolant temperature sensor

kavoom · December 2006

>>Having said that, I wouldn't want to tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle itselfhttp://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2003.html

Suby's are good tow beasts though...and I have torched one clutch... But it was my fault, not the clutch... And clutches are cheap compared to AT's. One learns from ones mistake if one is lucky. And we are not amused. I love speaking from the third person... IT seems so ethereal and apart from reality... kind of like a recipe for disaster... but I digress.

paisan · December 2006

1900lbs with a 2400lb tow rating is 500lbs under the limit and you have brakes on it, most folks rarely use brakes on anything les than 3000lbs (cause most states don't require it and thus most trailers don't come with brakes below a 3k trailer)

Then again I haven't towed anything less than 5k lbs recently, everything I've towed in the past 3 years has been 5,000lb boat trailer, 6,000lb car trailer, and a 9,000lb boat trailer with triple axle

-mike

kavoom · December 2006

Subaru requires brakes on anything over 1,000 lbs. I went with the lightest trailer I could find that met my fiscal and material requirements but I did like having that 25% "cushion."

pathtomax · December 2006

Thanks to everyone for their notes on the head gasket issue here. I got my Outback back after 2 days. They replaced BOTH head gaskets for $1400 so I guess that is not a bad deal after what people estimated the price to be.

I have noticed slightly more power in the car. Also, this may sound strange, but I can feel the power in the gas pedal- when I am accelerating quickly, the gas pedal shakes slightly now. I thought it was odd, but everything else is running great.

ateixeira · December 2006

Sweet, great news.

-juice

kovarpa · December 2006

Just bought my first Outback (2007, 2.5i, 5sp manual). Dealer was pushing the prepaid maitenance plan - I did not buy it. He was also saying I have to use genuine Subaru oil filters? True? Why not some generic oil filter? Thoughts? I don't want to screw up my new car but I also don't want to pay more than I need to....

c_hunter · December 2006

I believe the Subaru filter is actually made by Purolator, so you can certainly use that brand! I have been buying Subaru filters from online parts departments at dealers for $5-6 (including the crush washer), sometimes cheaper in bulk. I would say to shop around and get whatever costs the least.

About the only thing I would recommend is to definitely use the crush washer, and that may be harder to find in stores.

leo2633 · December 2006

I used Subaru filters for years on our '01 Forester and '03 Outback. About a year ago I switched to Purolators. They appear to be identical except for the mounting gasket, which is rounded on the Subaru (think large O-ring) and flat on the Purolator. I was paying around $5 for the OEM, but get the Purolators on sale for about $2.

Len

cyberu · December 2006

Hi,
I have the same problem, 2006 Forester X, 7K miles, just bought used, has a normally barely detectable shudder, slightly more noticeable in Neutral or Park, but in Drive you don't notice it. Once drive a while, it randomly "shudders" at idle, to the point that it's nauseating and you can sometimes see the body shake. The frustrating thing is it comes and goes, but in order for it to act up, the engine must be hot. Idle speed never strays far from 750rpm whether this is happening or not.

Dealer says it's normal for this engine, but they only saw the normal behavior, not the bad episode. This varying behaviour makes me wonder whether it isn't something besides the natural vibration you refer to.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

paisan · December 2006

The reason to use OEM is mostly for 2 reasons. First, on your $20,000 car is it worth it to skimp on $3/oil change? I mean really, if you are cutting it that close to the bone, perhaps you should be looking at something in the 10-12k range instead of 20k.

Second is that the filter material density and check valves in the OEM are set to the manufacturers standards. If you can get documentation or other evidence that the less expensive ones are of the same or higher quality then I say go for it. I either stick with OEM ones or some of the more expensive filters like K&N, Hastings, Amsoil etc.

-mike

klcsiii · December 2006

I washed my car the other day and now the DRL's and tail lights stay on after I take the key out of the ignition.I don't know if these are related, but would like to try and fix the problem so I don't have to unhook my battery everytime I park. FYI, I normally leave the headlights on all the time since they go off automatically when you shut off the engine. A buddy said it might be a relay? What is it, cheap to fix, can I do it myself? Any suggestions?

'96 Subaru Wagon

xwesx · December 2006

Check on top of your steering column. There is a shallow, wide switch that will turn on your parking lights - did you hit that while wiping off the dash, perhaps?

DRLs.... on a '96? Are those aftermarket? The switch about which I am talking does not turn on your headlights.

c_hunter · December 2006

I agree, you probably flipped the parking light switch on top of the steering column. We get this question quite frequently -- it happens to a lot of people.

once_for_all · December 2006

it's just the natural balance of the boxer engine. Since the horizontally opposed engine more or less neutralizes the cylinder on the opposite side, no balancing cam is used in the engine (unlike in-line engines that you would find in Honda and Toyota).

I can't tell you why it isn't 100% smooth, but they all have that unpredictable random hitch at idle.

John

kens · December 2006

That's right. Boxer engines don't use balance shafts since the opposing motion of the pistons cancel themselves out -- mostly. The four cylinder models have perfect 1st order balance, but you need to go to six cylinders to achieve 2nd order balance. So, bottom line, it's normal to feel the occasional shake with your H4.

Ken

gmginsfo · December 2006

My driver's seat belt tensioner on my '03 Forester X is a bit slack, which prevents the belt from retracting when released, sometimes allowing the door to close on the buckle, which is not a nice thing to do to a seatbelt, or a B pillar, even one as sturdy as mine! Any ideas on how to restore some needed tension to this area of my world?

Happy New Year to All!

PS - Drove a Malibu Max while on vacation last week - lousy traction, wheels regularly spinning, and even prompting my Dad to mention, "This car rides rough!" Too bad I couldn't have my Forester with me.

gaucho1 · January 2007

My 6- month-old 20006 Forester's CAT converter just gave up the ghost.

As a side issue, this was announced by a steady "Check Engine Light" (CEL), and the simultaneous failure of my Cruise control, along with a blinking Cruise Control light. (Thought for the day: If the CEL is going to signal the problem, then, why does the CC light have to join in???)

At any rate, the local mech explained the details I have related, and pointed to no less than six CATs (plus tailpipe sections), stacked along the garage wall. Okay, so I'm on th e waiting list...

Is this the start of a recall? or something local to the Monterey, CA area? I have used nothing but unleaded regular.

In the meantime, I am minus Cruise Control. A small bother, except that the damned light is still blinking! :mad:

Gaucho

paisan · January 2007

Is that if there is a problem with the car, it's harder to ignore the CC not working than a steady CEL.

-mike

gaucho1 · January 2007

As an OF (old Fart), I have had some experience on such things with older cars.

First, your Dad is right -- it may darn well be an electrical problem, such as the fuel tank level's sending unit. It could also be a shorted wire or a loose connection. You'll need to pull out all the carpeting and liners (and maybe the back seats) to visually check the wiring.

It could be the fuel tank float itself, but I doubt it -- the problem is intermittent, which indicates a short or a loose wire.

Finally, as an old helicopter pilot: a fuel gauge is *never* to be trusted. Best bet is to time a full tank, and keep track of the running time between fuel-ups. Second best, and better for ground vehicles, is to mark the mileage between fill-ups, and do not exceed the mileage for a full tank!

I hope this helps. As long as you keep track of the mileage, you shouldn't wind up walking.

Gaucho

gaucho1 · January 2007

Mike,

True enough. However, the Aviation world had a better idea worked out decades ago.

It consisted of a "master Caution Light" on the dash, where the pilot couldn't miss it, and a push-button switch to turn it off. Down on the console was a battery of smaller lights, each wired to a particular fault system. The light for that fault in question would come on bright along with the master Caution Light, but could be tipped to a dim position, so as not to distract the pilot any further (never mind the fault in question, which would be usually distracting enough...) If a second or third fault condition occurred, then the Master Caution Light stood ready to do it's thing.

That was back in the mid-60's, when everything had to be hard-wired. Today? A matter of programming, mostly, and perhaps the addition of a touch screen. (there is still going to be a wiring bundle involved, but that's what designers get paid for.)

To get them on the right track, any old UH-1 "Huey" cockpit, or perhaps a look at a Blackhawk or Apache cockpit can show them the way.

The Aviation world saw the integration of systems a long time ago, and came up with solutions. As cars attract more systems, it's time for the designers to go look at existing solutions outside the office.

Gaucho

paisan · January 2007

I give pilots more credit than most drivers, so I think a lot of the systems on cars are setup to cater to the lowest commond denominator. I mean any professional driver would know to put his or her seatbelt on, heck I can't pull my car out of the driveway w/o it on! Yet there is still a light on the dash for it.

-mike

jhurt · January 2007

I have a 2005 Outback wagon with less than 30k on it and just recently put in a remote starter. The tech who installed the starter said that if the heater is on full blast when the engine is started remotely the system will blow the fuse to save the "blower." Well of course this happened... I think. When my car is started and the climate control system is activated it works perfectly fine except for the fact that there is no air blowing into the car (happens if it is a A/C setting as well). I'm thinking the fuse on the fan has blown but when I checked the two fuses on the car that indicated "blower" they were both fine. Has anybody ever had this problem or does anyone no if there is another fuse that deals with the climate control system?

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

gaucho1 · January 2007

Followup to my CAT converter problem:

While driving home, I noticed that the lights on the dash had gone off. I immediately checked the Cruise Control, and it now works. :confuse:

Okay, all my prior experience with things mechanical and electrical say that they do not get religion and heal themselves.

The shop has no idea, beyond the notion that the two Oxygen sensors (before the intake manifold, and after the CAT converter) may have been mismatching themselves, for some reason. (That's also the way they determine a "bad" converter.)

All of this points to some weak programming, IMHO...

Does anyone know if there are any hackers working on car computers? Subaru Forester computers, in particular? Any points of contact?

The shop is also recommending I go ahead and replace the CAT converter, since it is already on order. (I'm of two minds, there.) I do have a 3k mile trip coming up, but I hate to bother with a new converter if the existing one is good. OTOH, I'd miss the Cruise Control for that kind of distance.

Gaucho

gaucho1 · January 2007

dsl,

Sounds like a loopy sensor, but I wouldn't know which one, offhand.

When it happens, have you tried goosing the throttle pedal? Sometimes, the change in fuel-air hitting the manifold will cause the system to re-evaluate the fuel-air mixture, and adjust itself.

Gaucho

growler5 · January 2007

I'd take the Forester to a Subie dealer and ask for a diagnosis. That story about "6 cat converters lined up along the wall" doesn't sound right - as if your mechanic's fix for any CC light problem is to slap in a new converter ASAP.

bhalicks · January 2007

I am the same problem. I have a 2005 legacy. The Check engine light came on two nights ago and the cruise light starting blinking. I am taking it to the Subaru dealer tomorrow for an oil change so I will have them look at it.

I am guessing it is electrical. I bought the car in March of 2006. Recently I noticed two things:
- Every once in while the CD play will just turn on;
- When I first purchased the car, the car would beep when I activated (locked) and deactivated (unlocked) the alarm. About 1 month ago, the beeping stopped. The remote entry and alarm still works, but no beep indicator.

bh

c_hunter · January 2007

You must have turned off the chirp without realizing it. Look on the back of the remote for instructions to turn it back on.

jbschlick · January 2007

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I was finally able to get the car into have it looked at (I'm not much of a mechanic). As it turned out they replaced the coil pack, fuel filter, spark plugs, and spark plug wires. It cost me more than I would have liked to spend (especially after Christmas) to get it worked on, but it is definitely running better. At least from your advice I know they weren't just making something up. That's my biggest fear when getting my car worked on. Thanks again!

ateixeira · January 2007

Purolator did well in that oil filter study published a while back. FRAM did not, though. Buyer beware.

-juice

kovarpa · January 2007

I don't want to save $3/oil change. I was just curious whether I needed to get the oil change done at a dealer or whether I could get it done at other places as well. The difference b/w dealer and my old place is more like $30 and it's also about timing - dealer does not work Sundays...
I appreciate all the info on the things to look for, though.

paisan · January 2007

I'd say get it done at the other place, but bring em the Subaru oil filters so you know the filter is up to snuff.

-mike

jfl · January 2007

A new Subie dealer opened in town and sent me a postcard for an oil & filter change, multipoint inspection, and a car wash for $10! Got the card on Saturday and had them do the work today.

Their showroom had 3 STi WRXs and one Forester. No Legacy or Tribeca to be seen inside or out!

BTW, two weeks ago my daughter drove a WRX in bumper-to-bumper LA trafffic. Afterwards, she complained about extreme soreness in her left leg. I don't think it made a positive impression...

Jim

fibber2 · January 2007

Sounds like you have 'discovered' one of the many wonders of OBDII. Problems logged by the system fall into one of several categories. Some will trigger the light and it will stay on for up to 40 "drive cycles". Other more transient issues will trigger the light, but it will only stay on for 3 cycles if the problem does not re-occur and go off.

Oxygen sensors can fall into the latter set. The front sensor deals with fuel/air ratios and the raw exhaust. The rear sensor assesses how efficient the cat is at futher reducing it. If feedback from the front sensor strays for a fraction of a second it can throw a code, but the light will clear itself if it does not happen again. But the system captures the code and a 'snapshot' of conditions posted by a dozen other sensors for a total of 40 cycles so that it can be read out by your mechanic.

Interpretation of what the codes mean, and what to change, is very much in the hands of the mechanic. It could be that the sensor itself is bad, a wiring problem, or something else that the CPU is misinterpreting. Remember that there are no dedicated sensors 'watching' the performance of sensors. The total system is monitored, and when certain conditions are met, a logic table dictates what code to show. It is not always right or absolute, which is why sometimes they end up having to change multiple things until it does not re-occur.

Steve

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