Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

armac13 · January 2001

but I really don't believe that a liquid is going to be compressed - basic physics 101. It will therefore not "expand" upon release. A gas yes, liquid no.

Ross

dalelynn · January 2001

Patty & Mike,

Thank you SO VERY MUCH! Mike for providing excellent advice and Patties number, and Patty for making things happen!

Within a half hour after talking to Patty the dealer's service department called me back, apologized for the "mix-up" and had a new gauge pack on order (the right color this time!). They even offered me a lender vehicle to use while they do the work, which by the way, is this weekend. Mind you, this from a dealer who originally told me they didn't provide loaner cars! All is well once again thanks to you both and this wonderful venue for Subaru owners. My sincerest appreciation!

dalelynn · January 2001

Patti, In my last message I could have sworn I spelled your name P A T T I and not Patty... Did I screw that up or did spellcheck change it? No matter, sorry, no disrespect intended~

Dalelynn

p0926 · January 2001

armac13- the wiper fluid isn't compressed but will expand when frozen. The O in H2O is the culprit I suspect. However, still don't like fernieguy's explanation since the fluid lines are plastic and therefore do have some give. And even if they didn't, the expansion caused by freezing water is a powerful force (hence the problem with water pipes breaking in winter). Anybody else?

-Frank P.

armac13 · January 2001

my point was that releasing pressure does not cause water to expand nor does increasing pressure cause it to contract. Of course temperature does influence its density, but that is not relevant to the discussion.

Ross

ateixeira · January 2001

ramon: that's hilarious. Did you lean over and drive the whole time?

Oops, did I get us into this technical discussion? Sorry folks.

Dale: great to hear that. It's nice to know in case I ever needed to pull some strings. Now if only something would break...

;-)

-juice

ramon · January 2001

i had to take out my trusty windex and squirt at the screen at every light. ;-)

Just kidding. But I've personally witnessed a fellow did that at a traffic light though. What a nutter.

royallen · January 2001

One reason washer fluid freezes on the windshield and not in the line is ................. evaporation cooling. I cool my whole house in the summer by the drop in temperature from evaporation of water. The air from my cooler is about 20 degrees below the inlet temperature.

armac13 · January 2001

Evaporative cooling I will buy as part of the explanation. Good thinking.

Ross

subaru_team · January 2001

No offence with the name. I answer to all kinds of variations (my favorite was from someone who insisted on calling me Penny Nickels).

I'm glad all turned out okay. Your dealer has a good reputation and I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding from the get-go.

Patti

bluesubie · January 2001

I don't get the fluid freeze on the windshield using the Prestone Windshield melt. It's convenient because it's an additive that you can add it to whatever's already in there.

Dennis

hciaffa · January 2001

I'm trying to get in touch with one of your reps, Tom Salvino. He had sent me a spread sheet to fill out and update for about three months on our (terrible) gas mileage, averaging 13 to 18 mpg . I sent him the spread sheet on the 22nd of Jan and we have not heard from him. Can you help us out and try to have him contact us. Thank you

logger2 · January 2001

Patti,

You mentioned before that if I wasnt getting any satisfaction from Subaru of Canada about my concerns to let you know. Well I'm not getting anything at all from them. I have sent 2 letters and contacted the reps in toronto a couple of times. I have not heard anything regarding my claim and was kind of concerned. I was told they would contact me when they knew something, that was about 3 weeks ago? Anything else I should do?
You can contact me privately about this or on here whichever you prefer.

Jason

amishra · January 2001

Try writing Greg Edwards of Subaru Canada at this address:

GEdwards@Subaru.ca

He's not directly involved with customer satisfaction from what I gather, but he can likely help get the ball rolling on Subaru's side.

-- ash

miksmi · January 2001

Jason, hang in there. Sometimes big companies are sluggish; sometimes it's an issue with the dealer. Even good ones like Subaru of Canada or America. I realize that those statements don't solve your problem.

Sorry you're having some trouble getting things right; it is frustrating. Hope things work out.

Did you already share the nature of the trouble you're having (mechanical, not cust. service)? We're interested.

..Mike

brekke · January 2001

The last time I drove in the rain, I heard a hissing noise like water dripping on a hot surface (sounded like somewhere on the passenger's side). This only happened when I had my blower + heat on. The next day the rug in the front passenger's footwell had a wet area a few inches in diameter. Someone said I might have a broken heater core. Can anyone tell from these symptoms if this is dangerous? Otherwise, I can live with a small water leak for a few months.

-Caroline

kens · January 2001

Caroline,

Sounds like somethings up with the heater/AC unit. The heating/cooling element sits right in the passenger footwell which would explain the location of the noise as well as the water. I'd have it checked out right away.

Ken

paisan · January 2001

If it is the heater core, you will smell a strong odor of anti-freeze when it is leaking. Chances are the problem is with the A/C condenser unit. (which comes on when you have the defogger on) If you are dumping the car soon and it only happens occasionally, I wouldn't worry about it.

-mike

locke2c · January 2001

Smart advice from Mike. Escalate your new car search, IMO. ;-)

-Colin

brekke · January 2001

I haven't smelled any antifreeze or noticed any new stains in my driveway, and no new leaks since it hasn't rained. My heater/cooler is already broken; I can't get cool air unless I flip a switch under the dashboard so I can't adjust the temp of the heater except to turn the blower off, just to add a few more clues. A minor inconvenience as long as my engine doesn't blow up on me.
(sorry, integra boards had no suggestions altho I think someone else there has the same prob. Anyway I consider you guys my new online homies

logger2 · January 2001

I bought the car used in June of this year. It had 60,000 miles on it - good price but still under warranty for a couple of months. Anyway I was doing a fair bit of driving and one of the wheel bearings went out and I got stuck paying for it even though it had not been fixed under warranty when the previous owner brought it in. Since then the clutch went out, suspension problems, timing belt tensioner problems almost ruined engine and leaky crank seal. A lot of cash spent on a 2 year old car i think. To make matters worse, it seems like these are fairly common problems from looking around on the 'net. I also did some research and found that most of the stuff I have paid to fix was stuff already fixed once under warranty. Let's just say I love the car but have been frustrated with the reliability and costs to repair. That's the jist of the mechanical stuff.

paisan · January 2001

I'd personally say that the previous owner abused it and/or didn't have it properly fixed while under his or her care. This is exactly my reason for refusing to buy another used car. I'll take the bus thank you if I can't afford a new car. Unless of course you buy one for like $1000 in which case you can walk away from it if there is any major problems with it and not lose your shirt.

-mike

p0926 · January 2001

Darn CEL came on again! Took it in this AM and they again replaced the Air/Fuel sensor (2nd time this month!). Service rep said that they must have gotten a bad batch. New one supposedly has a different code on it so hopefully it won't fail. The biggest annoyance is having to keep scheduling trips to the dealer and then cool my heels for a couple of hours.

-Frank P.

kens · January 2001

logger2,

Sorry to hear about your problems. Did you try and see if the dealer would do some of these repairs under warranty? The powertrain warranty is 5/60, so it sounds like you were borderline.

I agree with Mike that the previous owner might be suspect. I also own a 98 Forester and yes, I've had my share of clutch problems, but it was repaired under warranty and has been fine since. I have 50K miles on mine, BTW.

If there's anything you can't work out with the dealer/service dept. try giving SOA customer service a call.

Ken

miksmi · January 2001

Re: p0926 Jan 26, 2001 9:37am Bummer Frank. Know watcha mean about the downtime. Anyone know who makes the sensors? Chances are the sensor is not unique to Subaru, meaning other auto manufacturers have a similar problem (now). Which doesn't help you now, does it?

Just use the Edmund's search function to locate a similar problem. D'oh! Hate to steer you away from Edmunds but try searching alt.autos.subaru or the entire alt.autos.* newsgroup hierarchy on deja.com.

..Mike

wizkid · January 2001

I have a very annoying problem with my 2k OB 5spd. When I am driving in heavy traffic at about 35 mph in 3rd gear or coasting down a hill is when the symptom is most noticeable. If I let off of the gas completely to cover the brake pedal my OB decelerates with a noticeable jerking motion. And then when I accelerate the car jerks or stumbles again until rpm gets up over 2000. Actually I can feel the stumble in any gear from 2nd to 5th. I took my car into the dealer twice and both times they said that they couldn't recreate the problem. Both times I took a mechanic out for a ride then they saw what I was talking about. The second mechanic was the dealer's lead or head mechanic and he told me that the symptom was normal on the 5 speeds. He said that it was the design of the fuel injection. Since the 2k Subaru doesn't have an air flow sensor in the Intake the fuel cutoff and turn on is handled by the computer. He said that if I had purchased a Subaru with automatic transmission I wouldn't notice the problem. My feelings for the car are turning very negative. Is the mechanic correct?? Does anyone else with a 5spd OB or Forester have the same symptom? Sorry for the lengthy posting.

Wizkid

pat88 · January 2001

Hi! I have a 2001S-Premimum Package Sedona Red
Forester. I have a question about the heated seats...

My husband says that using them puts a drain on the battery and that I should just use them short term--until the car is warmed up or for just a few minutes. Here in Massachusetts it gets COLD and I would love to use the heated seats for longer than just a few minutes.

It doesn't make sense to me that it would put a drain on the battery when the car is on but I don't know...

How much time is it OK to keep the heated seats on? I turn them off before I turn the car off.

Thank you for any advice you can give me!

~~~Pat

paisan · January 2001

You can run em for the whole time the car is on. It doesn't drain the battery when the car is running because you are running off of the alternator, not the battery while the car is running. On my Trooper I run the heated seats almost all the time w/o problems (in addition to the heated mirrors and rear defroster)

-mike

saxologist · January 2001

The same symptoms developed on my 1998 legacy GT with 2k miles. The dealer had to replace the computer on the car. Actually they had to replace it twice before they got the car running correctly.

I hope your dealer is easier to deal with than mine was. My dealer, and Subaru, were less than professional throughout this ordeal.

subaru_team · January 2001

Have you called us at SOA? If there is a "bad batch" we should be able to get you one from another batch. I'd call and get a case/file started. That way we can try and make sure it is resolved once and for all. You can tell the Rep. that I asked you to call and that you are from Edmunds. That way, I can keep an eye on your case.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team · January 2001

Same thing as Frank. Please give us a call so we can get on this. The number is 1-800-SUBARU3. I'm sure we can help. Has a Field Rep. driven with you?

Thanks,

Patti

lark6 · January 2001

Good morning everyone,

I just got a fairly unpleasant surprise when I went to refill the washer fluid in my '00 Forester S (17K miles). The coolant level reads at "low" and there are traces of evaporated coolant all along the top edge of the radiator - also on the underside of the hood. This is where it looks like there's a crimped white metal edge ebtween the plastic and metal parts of the radiator. Funny thing is I had it inspected a couple of weeks back and no problems were spotted at that time.

Has anyone - here or at SoA - encountered this problem? Needless to say I'm pretty upset. Lucky I didn't try to drive much farther!

Ed

wizkid · January 2001

Frank and Patti,
Thank you for the reply to my posting. As for your question, no I have not had a Field rep drive my car yet. I wanted to post my problem here first to findout if I really had a problem before I started pursuing the annoyance with SOA. Since you both agree, than that is what I will do. Since the majority of my driving is city with a lot of downshifting and upshifting I get tired of feeling the jerkiness whenever I let up on the gas and then accelerate again. I have owned many different makes of cars and this is my first Subaru. My previous car was a 1988 Toyota Celica GTS, which I purchased new, w/5spd. I sold it with 145k miles and it is still running great, with no jerky acceleration. I was hoping to keep this car that long but if this problem is not resolved then it will be "Soyonara" OB. Prior to purchasing the Outback I read the postings on this message board alot and the Edmund's driving report. My decision to purchase the OB Ltd. was made in part because of what I read on this message board. I hope my problem will be resolved to my satisfaction so that I can continue to be a part of "The club". I'll keep ya'll updated on my progress.

Thanks,
Wizkid

pat88 · January 2001

Mike--

Thank you for your answer to my question about the heated seats in the Forester. Your answer made sense and now I can use the seats the way they were intended to be used. Yay! :-)

~~~Pat

paisan · January 2001

Pat,
In the summer, try putting the A/C on and the heated seats. I'm not sure if the forester's heated seats include the back of the seats, but on my trooper, when the back warms up it is quite soothing!

-mike

crashton6 · January 2001

Ed: Mine has the same problem. Dry coolant remains on the top tank & some on the side by the horn. It's level has gone down some but its still in the safe range. Haven't had to refill the tank yet. I'm keeping a close watch on it. I think it may be the top hose seeping at the radiator connection. If you look at the top hose you can see how coolant leaking here can travel across the top of the radiator making it look like the top seam is leaking. It's probably dripping on to the fan & being flung onto the underside of the hood when the fans run.

Chuck

subaru_team · January 2001

It doesn't sound like anything I've heard of. Are all of the hoses connected okay? Call your dealer and get it towed in. If it needs to stay overnight, you're covered for a rental.

Let me know what's happening?

Thanks.

Patti

cdb420 · January 2001

What's wrong with my '98 Forester S? The factory sticker rated it 21 City, 26 Highway, and most people are in this range, but since I bought it last July it averages 18.5 overall. This includes a combination of city and Interstate in my daily driving, at least 50-50 or leaning more toward Interstate. The best it's ever done is 20.5 - all highway, cruise control on, and driving very soft.

I tried premium gas, 45 gallons worth, and the overall mileage increased to about 19.4 mpg. (At a 20-cent per gallon premium, it isn't nearly worth it.)

My '89 Camry with 105,000 miles got 31 highway, 25 combined, with a much more assertive driving style.

I bought the Forester with 22,500 miles, so it's not a break-in problem that is going to go away. It now has nearly 29,000, so I have a fair database on it. The original owner said it gulped gas.

I've read about problems with the oxygen sensors, knock sensors, resetting the ECU, or the onboard computer, but a local Subaru dealer checked it out and said that *their* computer says mine is fine, as are the 02 sensors. (They also drove it 22 miles, put in ".77" gallon of gas, and proudly told me I was getting 26 mpg. Hah.)

(To round things out, it has Roadhandler tires (235 x 16; no change in MPG with increased tire pressure), standard 2.5l engine, auto trans (accounted for in the sticker MGP rating), aligned regularly, have used injector-cleaning additives, is peppy but seems a bit slow on acceleration 0-60 (14 sec, vs 10-11 for other Foresters).)

Is the MPG situation specific to the '98? Is this a known problem, with a factory or dealer solution? What needs replacement or adjustment?

Thanks!

paisan · January 2001

Personally, I'd reset the ECU by leaving the battery disconnected overnight, and then after a few tanks of gas, it should be up to normal gas milage. The original owner may not have trained the ECU properly. Just a few thoughts. If not then I'd have the delaer check it out further.

-mike

forest7 · January 2001

My wheel lock key for my '01 Forester is no where to be found (I've checked the spot I normally keep it) and other areas in the car it might have been placed.

How do I go about getting the locks removed without damaging anything and getting a big bill?

Or is my only choice going back to the dealer (scheduled for service on Wed with of course, a tire rotation needed)?

kens · January 2001

cdb420,

18.5mpg sounds very low. The worst I've ever recorded on my 98 Forester S (5-speed) is 22mpg and that was with lots of stop and go with A/C on all the time.

You mentioned 235R16 tires. If you're using 60-series tires, then your total tire diameter is about 1" more than the stock 215/60R16s. If you are using your odometer to calculate gas milage, this would cause you to underestimate you mileage by about 4%, if I did my math correctly.

Also, a bigger tire will affect gearing and can result in slower 0-60 times.

You may want to try Mike's suggestion and reset the ECU. Simply disconnect the negative battery terminal for about 30 seconds when the engine is cold, re-connect, start the engine and let it idle for 15-20 minutes. Shut down the engine, start it up again and then drive around at various RPMs to allow the ECU to get some data points. Normally, fuel economy drops for the first tank but then improves as the ECU learns your driving habits.

Ken

theob · January 2001

Thought I might be the only one seeing this. The evaporative super-cooling expressed earlier is the best explanation I could come up with.

Saw some posts earlier about synthetics. Has anyone calculated out expenses to determine what the bottom-line difference is? Someone mentioned fiber filters. Who makes them? How much are they? I assume the Subie ones Darlene sells are paper. The VDC has a 6500 rpm redline, which we'll probably only approach a maximum of twice per month. Any opinions?
Thanks,
Theo

lark6 · January 2001

Patti - have 17,500 mi checkup coming this week so that'll be a good time to have it addressed. Having read Chuck's post just before yours, his description sounds like what I'm observing. So maybe it's just an upper radiator hose that's leaking. I added a small amount of coolant while cold, ran some errands Saturday afternoon, and checked again - coolant levels are in the acceptable range. At any rate I'll make an appointment this week and have it checked out. A new hose clamp is worth peace of mind.

Thanks for listening. Will keep you posted. Off to work.

Ed

ateixeira · January 2001

Ken beat me to it, cdb420, but the tire size also raised a red flag in my mind. I'm surprised you even managed to fit 235s, given my 225s (also a tad bigger than stock) have barely enough clearance.

It may be 4% on paper, but the actual diameter can vary by more than that. You may even consider getting your speedometer adjusted for accuracy.

Forest7: the dealer is your best bet. You don't want to damage your wheels trying.

Pat: you use the heated seats while driving. In fact, if it's real cold outside, some folks recommend you warm up the battery before starting the vehicle. That would mean using the heated seats even before you turn it on could be useful.

Theo: with that low redline, I think synthetics are overkill. Others argue it's cheap and you have nothing to lose, but IMHO it's overkill.

There are gauze filters like K&N, as well as foam filters like the ones Amsoil sells. Both are "wet", with special oils.

K&Ns have less surface area than paper filters because the paper ones have many more pleats, plus each pleat is deeper. I've seen two articles that claim they allow more dirt through also. Still, some people swear by them, and they are reusable. I had one on my previous car, but that was before I read those articles.

Amsoil is a foam filter, like a lot of motorcycles use. The K&N folks claim they allow less air flow, but who knows. I've seen no criticism on the amount of dirt it allows past, though.

-juice

bluesubie · January 2001

I use synthetic blend for it's lower pour temps and easier cold starting. And because it was $1.54 at Wal-mart.
I was talking with a Sube tech this past weekend about synthetics. He said they do offer more protection but didn't know if the higher costs were justified. I asked him about sludge and he said the boxer engines usually don't have a problem with sludge (he hasn't seen it). He did add that he's seen an engine that used Mobil 1 and it was spotless.
Like juice said, it might be overkill if you keep the rpm's down like that.

Dennis

armac13 · January 2001

that's not what's meant by "warming up the battery". At very low temperatures, batteries provide much less power. In very low temp climates some people have plug in covers for their batteries to physically heat up the battery. Using the seat warmer or any other electricity demanding device will further decrease the likelihood of starting the car.

Ross

steveylin · January 2001

Hi,
I mentioned a while back that I was getting only 20MPG on my 2001 Forester. I think I found the cause. Yesterday while washing it, I sprayed some water on the front disc, and it was so hot it vaporized the water. Both front brakes were red hot, while the rear discs are hot to the touch, but not vaporizing hot. I've put over 6K on the car already, so I'm worried that the entire front brake assembly may be damaged beyond repair. I don't know if the parking brake goes to the front or back tires, but it was definitely released when we were driving. It's at the dealers now, and I'll pass along their diagnosis. Has anyone heard of this type of problem before?
Steve

paisan · January 2001

Could be the salt air froze up the front calipers on the trip over from Japan.

-mike

steveylin · January 2001

Just talk to the dealer service dept. They examined the brake and found nothing wrong. They also drove another Forester on the lot for 20 minutes, and its front disc got hot enough to vaporize water also. They couldn't find anything out of spec with my car. My question to everyone here is: do you see the same thing on your Forester? I would think if the brakes get this hot it means the Forester really needs a bigger brake, or even a racing type ventilated brakes. Any comments?
Steve

ateixeira · January 2001

Ross: I thought I'd heard someone suggesting that, though. Turning on something with a small load, that is.

The parking brake is on the rear, FWIW.

Brake discs get hot, that's totally normal. You just don't want the pads to get glazed, and result in brake fade. As long as they still grab, you're in good shape.

-juice

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