Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Extended cabs OK for "real" people
michaellno
Member Posts: 4,120
I'm thinking of getting a new vehicle in the next
few months. Have kicked around a number of ideas -
sedan, small SUV (RAV4, CR-V). The wife thinks
that maybe a small extended cab pickup would work.
Our other car is a 97 Escort, and we have two
kids, ages 9 and 11. Would they actually fit in a
Ranger SuperCab?
What opinions do you have about putting people,
not things, behind the driver and passenger? Or is
this a pipe dream?
few months. Have kicked around a number of ideas -
sedan, small SUV (RAV4, CR-V). The wife thinks
that maybe a small extended cab pickup would work.
Our other car is a 97 Escort, and we have two
kids, ages 9 and 11. Would they actually fit in a
Ranger SuperCab?
What opinions do you have about putting people,
not things, behind the driver and passenger? Or is
this a pipe dream?
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I have 4 godchildren, and for the ones that are in car seats, the full-size extended cab trucks I drive were certainly adequate in terms of back seat space - the oldest is now 7 and he has more than enough room to be comfortable in back.
You sound like you might be happier with a mid-sized wagon (Taurus/Volvo V70/Subaru Legacy). That will give you good backseat space, the cargo room when you need it, and much better ride and economy than the trucks will. Compared to the other types of vehicles on your shopping list, a pickup doesn't seem to fit your needs. I won't recommend pickups to anyone who won't actually use the cargo/towing capabilities regularly.
I would NOT recommend a compact pickup with 2 children, period.
The other issue is price. I'm looking to stay under $20K, which I think leaves me out of the full size arena, unless I go with a stripped V-6, manual tranny Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet. Even if I add A/C and stereo, it's probably going to run in the low to mid 20's. Is this doable? What about the Dakota? Still not big enough for even short hauls with kids?
Any advice, opinions, etc.?
I lived in South Dakota for about a year once upon a time. I don't remember it as being an especially expensive place, but maybe things have changed. I just paid about $20,000 in NJ for a Ford F150 XLT extended cab with what I thought had a lot of extras; that is, it has A/C, auto transmission, power windows & door locks, radio & cassette, etc. I certainly wouldn't classify it as a stripped-down model. It's only a V6, but it has 205 HP, and that's enough for me. It sounds to me like this is about what you want and what you want to spend. I could have gotten a Ranger with the same equipment for about $1,500 less, but I thought getting the F150 was well worth the difference.
And I've admitted this before, that I expect a lot of others reading this have gotten what I got for less, because I didn't really go bargain hunting. Certainly not to the extent that others who have posted their shopping experiences have.
Is the V6 you bought the SOHC 4.0L that is also found in the Explorer? The 205HP sounds about right.....
SUV's are a big waste of money and really serve no purpose to 90% of it's owners. Cars provide superior riding and handling as a person carrier. Wagons and vans provide enough space and economy. Trucks offer utility and practicality. What does a SUV offer to anyone that doesn't live in the mountains?
SUV's are horrible with fuel mileage and really don't have much more room than cars. Vans offer more utility for families even still.
I have grown tired of people buying these over-priced ego machines. An average Explorer starts at 28k! For that money, one can get an XL ext. cab F-150 with two grand to spare with all of benefits of owning a truck. Insurance is also higher on these SUV's.
This is only my opinion. I hope I didn't come off as mean. My two pennies.
Every time I visit Florida, all I see are these SUV's. WHY? The terrain is flat. Snow? no. The roads are in perfect condition and trust me, hardly anyone ever really goes off-roading in those things.
Dealers have to be laughing every time someone buys one.
I agree on a practical point, but I think most people buy cars with other objectives in mind. Functionality isn't the only one. Why do people buy Corvettes, when they could pay alot less for a Honda Civic? The Civic will get better gas mileage, it will be able to carry more people, and it will be able to carry a lot more stuff. And, of course, it's a lot cheaper. The Civic can operate fine at highway speeds and cannot accelerate up to those speeds in a reasonable amount of time. Unless you will be taking your Corvette out to the track on a regular basis, it's way more car than you need for everyday driving. Still, they have quite a following.
Why do people buy Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus and Cadillacs when they could get a less expensive mid or large size sedan that will easily provide them with all of their needs on a functional level? I would venture a guess that very few people are matched with the car that best meets their functionality needs. A lot of car buying is a matter of preference and what you feel comfortable in. If you like SUVs and are willing to pay the extra bucks for them, more power to you. It's not likely to make sense to us pickup owners, but to each their own.
Those crew cab mini trucks are at the expense of the bed - the cab is just in front of the rear axle, much like a Suburban. The SUV is a sad replacement for a full-size station wagon. One of the big selling points of the old full-size was holdng a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the back seat down, and a full-rail chassis that could tow. Even a V8-powered wagon gets better mileage than all of the SUVs except for the tiniest 4 cylider models.
No, I don't want a full size SUV, for the above mentioned reasons. Too expensive to buy, to insure and to keep filled with gas. I'm thinking about either a small SUV (Forester, CRV, RAV4), which, if memory serves, all get mid-20's in highway mileage, OR a mid-sized sedan (Accord, Contour, Altima). The wife won't be caught dead driving a minivan, so that idea is out. My original post was to get feedback on whether a small extended cab pickup might work as well. As I've found out, it won't -- the suggestions being, that if I want a truck, buy a full-sized one (F150, Ram, C1500).
We have two kids (9 and 11) - occasionally a third, who is 8. We don't go on a lot of long trips - mostly around town errands and such. The vehicle I'm looking to purchase would probably be driven 8-10,000 miles annually. Plus, I have around a $20K spending limit.
Here in CO, every other vehicle is an SUV or minivan, and I'd like to think of myself as a contrarian....
Whaddaya think?
What I meant by a real crew cab, is four regular doors with a regular 6 to 7 foot bed. And yes that would mean a longer chassis.
Brutus,
The station wagon still cant tow. That might suit someones needs but not for me.
If you buy the rav4,crv or forester you just maybe caught dead in it. In so cal you can get a near fully loaded chevy truck easily for 20k. In fact for the last few weeks a dealer in Corona Ca has had chevy silverado's extra cabs with auto, 5.0v8,pw,pl,alum wheels, etc for $18,500. I wanted one but it did not have the third door.
My post was in response to Michaell who I don't think will be towing. He mentioned the possibility of a Sedan in his first post. It sounds like he needed something to haul his family and some camping gear. The station wagon sounded like a better choice than the sedan (cargo space) or mini-truck (age of his kids).
I have nothing against SUVs. I have another friend out in CA who drives a Ford Explorer and his wife drives a mini-Blazer. Their only kid is off to college and they don't do any outdoors stuff. They just like the vehicles. People should drive what they feel the most comfortable driving, regardless of whether they use the vehicle to it's maximum capacity.
I think your best overall compromise will be a Subaru of some type, either a Forester or maybe an Outback wagon. I would suspect you want to keep your camping gear under wraps, and Lord knows I've watched stuff sail out of the back of a pickup. The all wheel drive of the Subarus will be a big help in the winter for you, and the lower center of gravity will help in the white stuff as well. The sedans you mention have no versatility off-pavement, and the taller miniSUVs won't ride as comfortably.
And kudos to your bride for hatimg minivans...
My point is there isn't a good reason why there are SO MANY of these SUV's driving around. I do understand why someone would buy a Vette--because they have the money to afford another vehicle! One also doesn't see 500,000 Vettes on the streets either. SUV's simply are not a good choice when a family car is needed.
kcram was right-on when talking about a wagon. I don't like wagons or vans but those are better choices versus SUVs for most people. I own three motorcycles because they are recreational, like a Vette. If people thought about SUVs a little more, and stop listening to ads, a whole lot of them would sit at the dealers lots like they did 20 years ago.
my two pennies.
lotsa luck!
Ron
On a side note, it's amazing what you can fit into a car when you have to alternatives. As stated earlier, my wife drives a 97 Escort, while I'm in a 93 Honda Accord. We had to move a mattress recently, and with the back seats folded down in the Escort, we managed to force a twin size mattress through the trunk. No, the lid wouldn't close, but we were only going about 15 blocks. We keep thinking that a truck would be nice for hauling, but we'd probably only *really* need in 6 or 7 times a year.
As for the weather, if it gets too bad we simply stay home. A couple of times this year my wife didn't go to work because of the road conditions. Not worth it to her to wreck the car.
Having owned a pickup in the past (87 Isuzu P'up), I know that when you own a truck, everyone wants to borrow it or have you haul something for them.
Wise decision! I applaud people who think before buying a SUV.
bogieman,
That is a great deal. I have a few questions:
Was it a left-over? If not,what state do you reside in and how much do you think the XL ext.cab would go for there?
We just bought one for our firm two weeks ago and I'm curious.
Before anyone goes off on me, I have to tell you that I once owned an SUV - a 1988 Trooper LS. Now, at the time, I only had one child, and yes, the thing did get only 15MPG (with a 4 banger, no less!). But, I used it off road quite frequently. My cousins owned a Ranger 4x4 and a Jeep Cherokee, respectively, and we would go into the mountains of SoCal and get 'em dirty. Most SUV owners these days barely takes their vehicles onto dirt roads.
Forgive the rant -- Monday morning blahs.
Where in Florida? Winner,eh? Actually I do like those guys but for Fords, I deal with Bayshore. Trust me, I envy where you reside!
Only the new-body 1999 GMC Sierra will have four doors from the General. The new Silverado will be 3 doors only, and the remaining old body models will remain as they were.
I am guessing you are from K.C. and you drive a Ram. Where do you get the info about the 1999 Dodge line? I am shopping and have talked to dealers in Colo and Ariz and none of them have any info, that they will share, that is. Maybe they will tell what they know once their lots are empty.
I'm a member of a national Dodge Ram "e-club" and we have quite a few dealers as members. All of them have mentioned the Club Cab is history, whatever stock will be built until it runs out, then the Ram extended cab will be Quad Cab only.
Any dealer who won't give you info doesn't deserve your business, now or in the future.
A few years back, a friend of mine had a '94 F-250 super cab. His girls were 13 & 15 at the time. The girls were very well behaved. He had a camper on the F-250 and would tow a small fishing boat. After one camping trip he traded the truck for a non super cab model. The problem was the girls being normal teenagers and the chatter just six inches behind his head. He just couldn't take it! So where are you going to be in a few years. How long will you be able to put up with the chatter, literally in your left ear?
Is that an open list? I'd be real interested, especially as my 2500 is working great and I'd like to keep it that way.
Don
very open list!
send an e-mail to
ramtruck-request@vcs.org
with the subject
subscribe
and you're in. Be sure to read the rules and regs that will come in the subscribe reply letter, and be sure to check out the archives in
http://www.vcs.org/ramtruck
as your questions may have already been answered
On a related note, I saw a commercial for GMC trucks recently. A lady is talking about the desire for a truck for towing, etc. versus the need for a family sedan (the kids shown were probably under 10). The ad promoted the GMC extended cab pickup as a compromise.
I appreciate all the comments and responses.
You just saw the reason trucks are selling like toys at the holidays - they are being promoted as car replacements when they probably shouldn't be. Full size trucks are far from car replacements; they are heavy duty work vehicles that are worthless without a need for their capacity. It's like a single guy buying a 5 bedroom house. Yes, it's a place to live, but really unnecessary.
Chevy is even trying to convince police departments to buy the 4 door Tahoe SUV since they don't make the Caprice anymore. This is FAR from a direct replacement vehicle.
Boy, that sure sound like a narrow-minded viewpoint. I confess, my pickup is in that category about 99 percent of the time, maybe more. And I suspect that most other pickups are too. If every pickup owner had to prove the vehicle is being used only for heavy-duty work in order to continue owning it, I don't think this conference would exist because there wouldn't be very many pickups in this country.
A little narrow minded, maybe, but think about 20 years ago when almost EVERY pickup was used for work. What did you have then? Rugged slabs of steel, big block V8s, drivetrains with some teeth. Were there only a few? Heck no, Ford sold 500-700K of them back in the seventies too. What do you have now? Trucks trying to replace cars, according to the ad Mike saw. I'm not saying I don't appreciate a comfortable seat and a few niceties, but don't market them as "cars" when they're not.
Think about all the complaints you hear when people trade in their mid-size family car for a pickup or SUV - BAD fuel economy, rough ride, the high climb to get in, tight back seats. People are buying trucks today with the impression they are comparable vehicles to what they're getting out of.
You don't have to prove a truck's worth to anyone but yourself. If you know that you haul or tow regularly or if you off-road every weekend, yeah, you need a truck. But if you use the benefits of a truck only a handful of times in a year, then you probably could get the job done with a well-chosen car.
It's just not a valid argument. Vehicle ownership goes far beyond actual needs. What do you feel most comfortable driving? What sacrifices are you willing to make to drive that vehicle? That is the vehicle you should buy. If it's a pickup you want, then it is a pickup you should buy. The more pickups that are bought, the more competion for consumers there will be and the more improved the product will be. A pickup truck is still a heck of a bargain when compared to SUVs, and a lot of other vehicles.
Brutus' post said almost everything I might have, but his last sentence is especially on target. In addition, I don't consider pickups to be expensive to own and operate. I haven't had a major breakdown in the about 300,000 miles I've logged in my trucks, and the fuel economy of my current F150 is as good or better than that of all of the "full-sized" cars I owned up until the 70s. And the cars were always in need of front-end alignments as evidenced by tow-in/tow-out tire wear; whereas, my pickups have never needed them. Once upon a time one could do a little towing with a big car, and I did too, but after I tried doing it with a truck, I never gave a thought to a full-sized car again. Now it's academic, however, because there aren't any more full-sized cars that can be used for occasional towing. So if the big 3 are finally trying to convice the general public that a pickup might be a good alterntive to a car, all I can say is how come it took them 25 years to figure that one out?
And then, of course, there's the topic of retaining value. I doubt if the guy down the street will keep his recently acquired, approximately $35,000-to-$40,000 Lexus for 10 years like I'll keep my $20,000 pickup, but if he does I have an idea I'll get a better resale price than he will.
Looks like my son will get it when he's 16 (he's 9 now).
I owned a small pickup (Isuzu) about 10 years ago, and used it for small hauling jobs. Sold it when my son was born, since there wasn't any room for the three of us.
Trucks are definately a statement of lifestyle, and for single folks or married couples without kids, they're probably fine. But, if you have a family, you're better off in a car or minivan. SUV's? Only if you're going to use them as intended, ie off road. Bad weather is NOT enough of a reason to drive a $35K, 4 wheel drive station wagon that gets 15 MPG (if you're lucky).
My .02.
Sorry about that.
You hit on one key marketing factor - pickups are less expensive. A lot of single people in their early 20s are buying mini-trucks because they're cheaper than the average econobox.
The mindset changes when they're ready to move up. If you had an econobox, you move up to the next size car with very little loss in mpg, and a moderate gain in utility. When you move from an S10 to a C/K, you take a big hit in economy, and these days, a large hit in price - 1500s/150s are regularly going out the door for $26K, 25/35 series trucks don't blink at the $30-35K mark. Major jump from the $10K stripped Ranger, when car sizes are stepped only a few thousand bucks each size.
SUVs and minivans are way overpriced today - I have seen minivans stickered higher than my Ram 3500 (Cummins, 4x4, loaded)... unless you have a lot of kids, I don't see any reason for buying a minivan, and like Mike said, SUVs are no catch-all solution for bad-weather driving. Every year, somebody blows by me on a snow-covered road in a Grand Cherokee, and I watch them slide like fools when they come up on a slow car or a traffic signal.
I think we (Brutus, lwf, myself) all agree that a truck may suit "us", because we do use the truck's capabilities, but for someone like Mike, a truck should be investigated thoroughly before dropping the big bills for one, rather than going with the crowd and buying one anyway.
By the way, I didn't opt for the ABS. The trucks come stock with rear wheel ABS, but I'm not even sure I like that. I understand about the control factor, but I don't think that applies to ice. Call me old fashion, but I'm use to tapping the brakes on ice when I need to come to a quick stop. When the ABS clicks in, it throws off the rhythm of my braking pattern.
When I owned my Trooper, I bought it to take off road. I had relatives who would go out and get their vehicles (Ford Ranger and Jeep Cherokee) dirty, and I wanted to join them. Yes, it was great having the extra room when my son was born, but getting 15MPG during the week wasn't any fun.
I've seen lots of articles around the country about people who buy 4WD vehicles and then think they own the world when the weather turns bad. Bigger vehicles means more mass which usually means longer distances to stop, turn, etc. (remember that concept called physics?)
Now, a small pickup or SUV that gets decent (not econobox) mileage may make sense for single people or couples without kids, or when there is already a vehicle available for the family (in my case, my wife's Escort).
But, like folks have been saying here, it makes sense to have the right reason for owning a full-size pickup (towing, hauling) -- not for carting around the wife and kids.
Once upon a time, I had a '62 Comet with a 351 Windsor, 4bbl, T-10 four speed, headers, and dual exhaust that got about 13mpg. No obvious external indicators of what was inside. Looked like "Grampa’s wheels." Thoroughly enjoyed the expression on mustang owners faces. Totally different vehicle than the BMW2002 we also had.
I've always like trucks. Now I'm looking for one. Maturity brings the desire for comfort. The "luxobarge" options now standard on an XLT make practicality, adventure, fun, comfort, and a very large smile approachable.
Bottom line? What am I saying? Motorized vehicles are emotion inspiring things and I, for one, have extreme difficulty with the attempt at confining them to logical rules. I'm about to finally get my truck.
On the other hand, I still say that a crew cab full-size pickup is more logical than an SUV. It's less expensive and the gas mileage is about the same. You can carry the same number of passengers, although the seats in the full-size truck may be roomier. You have more cargo space in the bed of the truck than you will have left in the SUV after all the passengers are on board. A tonneau cover or locking cap will protect your gear in the bed. Another advantage of the pickup is that the smell of the outdoors stays outdoors. Have you ever had a cooler with fish in it leak? Not a pleasant aroma to carry around in your vehicle for the next few weeks or until you fork out some bucks to have it steam cleaned.
The same argument can be made for the pickup over a stationwagon except that you should see some significant improvement in gas mileage. That's the only advantage that I see of wagon, although it could be a big advantage if mpg is a big factor in your decision.
You don't necessarily need to carry heavy loads or haul trailers to determine that a pickup is best for you. Everyone should drive what they feel most comfortable driving, even if it isn't necessarily the most logical choice.
My ONLY car was a 1985 Ford LTD police interceptor, retired from the NJ State Police. This was the midsized Fairmont-based lTD, not the Crown Vic. It too looked like a handmedown from a grandparent - even had whitewalls (dying to know where the NJSP found performance whitewalls). Under the hood was the fuel-injected HO 5.0 with that huge dual intake air cleaner. Radiators were everywhere. Even with 110K on the odo, it still snapped off 0-60 in 7 flat. And did I just LOVE the look on the Vette owner's face when I smoked him without so much as a tire chirp.
Surprisingly, my 1990 F150 4x4 rode softer...
My dad ran a Dodge dealership service group when I was a teen, and his dealership was the local source for State Police cruisers and unmarked cruisers in his area. In 1972, this meant Dodge Polara 4-doors, with 400 cubes, a six-pack, and a very special suspension package. This was dad's first new car, my first car, and a rolling invitation to major trouble.
Sure was fun blowing off 240Z's on our twisty little hill roads, tho.
Rubber side down, guys.
Don H.
I looked at a 4.6L XLT F-150 with a long bed and figure around 17k at invoice. That was without anything else added. The 4.6 will give you : 220 HP
290 Torque.
That price is without an Auto tranny and Air Conditioning. Factor another 1200 bucks at invoice level to get those. I'll say this:great choice on trucks, look at Ford and Chevy for options.
Read your comments about "need" and "want" regarding pickups and thought they were all valid indeed.
This brings the subject of my "need" vs "want" too. I am about to take the plunge too from Buick LeSabres and big Roadmaster wagons to full size extended cab pickup. Kids are gone, it's only me and mom, will keep the 1995 LeSabre as second vehicle.
What I "like" in the pickups (Ford std duty F150) is the RIDE, while not a LeSabre of course, and I don't want to compare apples vs oranges, it was as close to a nice car ride as I found in a pickup. I was rather SHOCKED.
I also did not realize what I have been missing because I can actually SEE the road, ahead and behind so much better and this is a major safety factor.
I also do not feel I will sacrifice much taking it on longer trips either except in some gas mileage.
Do I "need" a pickup, probably not. Do I want one? Yes. Will I be sorry? I don't know and read your comments with interest. Dunbarton
You said somewhere else that you live in NJ, and here you say you're in the market for an F150. Maybe you've already picked out a dealer to buy it from, but in case you're interested, there's one in some town near the Lincoln Tunnel who gave me a price via email that was a little below dealer invoice. At first it was a little above dealer invoice, but when I told him I was buying it from a dealer near my home, he dropped the price.
Anyway, if your interested, I posted who that dealer is back in February under the "Welcome" conference and the topic "I'm A Car Salesman, Please Help", and it's entry #56. Almost every one else who posted in that topic seemed to be complaining about what rotten guys car salesmen are, but I stumbled across one that seemed pretty decent, so I posted the story of that experience.
I didn't buy my pickup from him, but I probably would have if he hadn't been so far from where I live.