Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Come on, people, grow up! Wait until you see the car. Make yourself your OWN judgement. Judging after what the press says is doomed to be biased. If they were so right, the 7 series would be a flop, and it's not.
Why on Earth are people so reluctant to change is beyond me.
In the past I have been critisized about my stance regarding my reactions to the look of the E60. Someone even went so far as to say, "Shipo, just face it, you don't like change." Grrrrr, given that as a systems designer I have been creating new things and implimenting "Change" for over 25 years, "Change" is not the issue. In addition, back when I was doing a project at MB-USA in the winter of 1995/1996, the folks down the street at BMW-USA brought over one of the early production E39s (a 528i) which we sat side-by-side with one of our early prototype W210 E-Classes. I have to say, I loved both cars, but the E39 simply took my breath away, I had to have one.
My point is that I LOVE change, that is what I live for, that is what I do. That said, change for the better is what I stive for in all that I create, and while the new E60 is certainly better in many technical ways, it falls so far short of that mark visually that I am wondering just how long I will be keeping my E39.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The 7 looked bad in photos and worse in person, to my eyes. And BMW seems to agree because they've ordered an emergency face-lift. Kind of recalls the Aztec fiasco at Pontiac.
Sales for the 7 are good despite the styling, not because of it. Imagine an Alfa Romeo exterior? They could not produce enough of them.
"Change" is a pretty vague concept. The new E-class looks better. The new Jag is sharp. Alfas and Audis are gorgeous. Audis in particular changed substantially yet they look gorgeous. Remember the old Audi 100? No? Me neither. I loved the change.
-juice
Given its price and the deterioration of the worldwide economic scene, including USA, over the past two years, sales have been quite impressive.
The new 7 is an impressive car. Some people have complained about styling and idrive.
styling: Who knows what potential buyers think? Many have complained. Many like it. A lot have bought it. Who knows if the restyle will be well received? Will same people complaining today be complaining about it? Will sales increase or decrease?
idrive: Who knows how many buyers in this price range even care about idrive. Maybe they paid someone to explain it to them? Isn't dealer supposed to go over it in great detail at time of sale?
are you all crazy. The new 5 is UNBELIEVABLE. I believe it is the best design BMW ever. I did not like the 7 when it first came out but I grew to like it. The new five takes the 7 design to another level. It is a gorgeous machine. I am glad BMW is moving toward the future all the past models are looking their age...OLD. I owned several 3, 5, and 7's...I am happy with the change. Future on our hands...the ultimate DRIVING MACHINE.
Did the dealer give you any price quotes?
What about colors or option packages?
Good luck!
Tony
Tony
My disappointment comes from the 6 cylinder engine. I was hoping they would have bumped up the displacement to at least 3.2l if not 3.5l. But I guess when BMW is making major changes on the car the whole world uses as 'reference', they wanted to stick with something they could definitely count on. Rules out potential problems all across the board. The 540 becomes the 545 because that engine has already been 'proven' in the 7-series.
With an '04 on order, and a desire to stay with the 6 cylinder, I will probably wait until '05 to see them work out any 'bugs'. Also, I will still be hopefull for a larger engine (like the E39 change from 2.8 to 3.0).
As to why the 2.8l "became" a 3.0l (the 3.0l is in fact a new design), BMW was forced to do so because it introduced the 330d, which was its most serious competitor at this time... And similarly they brought back the 2.5l to its specs before it was decreased to 2.3l, not to conflict with the then top of the line 328i.
Want more, buy a V8 version.
As a side note I resent the fact that the next M3 will have a V8 under the hood. BMW will lose some of its exclusivity on this one. Too bad.
The 530 has 225HP/214ft-lbs. torque. Now look at the competition in it's class. The Audi A6 has 250HP/258ft-lbs, and the redesign for '04 is looking at 300HP. The Japanese are fighting back with the Acura TL-S at 260HP/232ft-lbs. & the Infiniti G35 at 260HP/260ft-lbs.
For $50,000, I (as well as others) EXPECT BMW to lead the class and not just sit back because they 'just' came out wih the 3.0 a few years ago.
Why should I have to spend an extra 7-8 thousand dollars for the V8.
Today's economy is rough, and the other manufacturers are fighting hard to be cheaper in cost and give you more. Again, I expect BMW to do the same if they want my money.
As far as the side note regarding the M3 getting a V8...look at the competition. Audi S4, now with a V8 & 340HP..Gotta "keep up with the Jonses"!!
Keeping up with the Joneses is a game that BMW is not that stupid to play. It updates its engine when it has new technology to put into it. And hp doesn't make driving pleasure, which is, above all else, BMW's mantra.
The Opel Speedster Turbo performs on par with the BMW M5, but its engine is only rated at 192hp. Hint, hint. Horsepower means nothing. Horsepower/weight ratio is everything.
I think it is more appropriate for the new 5 series to get 3.0i as the base engine. Even older 2.8i is better than 2.5i. Maybe BMW knows that most people would not buy 525i but go with 530i, thereby making more profits for the company.
And then there are Diesel offerings, which won't be offered in the US. But they account for 80% of 5 series sales here.
BMW does intend to upgrade its engines, but it will be to bring in Valvetronic mainly. Increasing the displacement in their I6s will only bring them disservice as they would alienate their sales all over the world except in the US. Should they do this they'd lose either torque band or revving ability, depending on what they would choose to increase, and engine efficiency in both cases. Just wait for the next engine rehauling, BMW consistently does this every few years...
First, I saw a new unbadged E60 on the Paris Pariferique last Thursday afternoon. I have to say, it doesn't look much better in real life than it does in the pictures. My impression is that it looks like a cross between a Pontiac and a Peugeot, and maybe not even as good looking as either.
Regarding engines part 1, European engines and the American engines produce the same power, the difference in the ratings is the measurement standard used.
Regarding engines part 2, BMW has been working on the "Valvetronic" versions of their engines for some time (which should increase both HP and Torque), and while I am a little surprised that they are not releasing it for the I6 engines with the launch of the E60, I suspect that it's better to launch with a proven engine than something that might be bug-ridden.
Regarding engines part 3, BMW already makes a 3.5 liter V8 (sold in Europe and other parts of the world), so it is HIGHLY unlikely that they will increase the displacement of the I6 engines anytime soon.
Regarding engines part 4, (this one is pure speculation on my part), could the delay in the release of the Valvetronic I6 engines be (at least in part) because BMW is going to incorporate both the Valvetronic of recent BMW fame and the "Direct Injection" technology of the new 6.0 V12 from the 760Li? Hmmm, the 3.0 Liter I6 with Valvetronic and Direct Injection? Can you say 260 HP and 245 pounds of torque? Sure, I knew you could. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
Disclaimer, regarding my fourth engine item, just consider me to be Feldwebel Shulz/Sergeant Shultz, "I know nothing..."
Thanks.
Engine/BHP (Europe)/SAE (U.S.)
2.5 Ltr/192@6000/184@6000
3.0 Ltr/231@5900/225@5900
I hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Shipo
SAE Net vs. DIN/PS:
SAE uses the definition where 1 Horsepower equals the ability to lift 33,000 pounds 1 foot in 1 minute. The European DIN/PS is essentially the "Metric Horsepower" equivalent to SAE Net, which is defined as the ability to lift 450,000 kg 1 cm in 1 minute. The two measurements are close; however, they are not the same, both use similar testing techniques (similar atmospherics and such, although not exactly the same) with similarly equipped engines, with the primary difference being the formula. While I have seen as many as a half a dozen conversion factors, the fact remains that the exact same engine will always have a higher DIN/PS rating when compared to its SAE Net rating.
Regarding BHP: Upon further analysis, BHP can mean so many things (at the flywheel, at the driven wheels, with all accessories, with some accessories, with no accessories ) that it really is meaningless, which makes on wonder why BMW uses it on their UK web site. As such, I should never have used it as an example in my previous post.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Will it retain 2.5i as the base and introduce 545it? Any performance boost from the current 525it?
They stole my idea. They have Dame Edna and the new 5 listed as "Seperated at Birth".
I'll note that I did that photochop well before the issue went to press.
-juice
If I read another posting how someone thinks the new 5 series looks awful, so they bought an Acura TL or BMW 330, I am going to laugh myself out of the chair. Here is a little secret....we know you bought the Acura because you couldn't afford the 5 series!
Let's not kid ourselves boys. For the same price you'd be taking the 5 series. I just put a deposit down on one this weekend...I will have the first shipment when it comes in late September. Guess I will be seeing a lot of guys drooling from those "cool" 330's and TL's!
However, I will be the first to admit that had I had more money I would of bought a Z8. But you won't see me saying the 5 series is sweeter then the Z8...I don't kid myself!
Best Regards,
Shipo
-juice
I disagree with your statement. I currently have a 02 530i but based on the pictures that I have seen on the E60 5-series, I would look at other options for my next car. Some of those option being Audi A6, CPO M5, CPO 540i-6 or a new 330i. Could I afford a new E60? Yes. Is price the reason for not picking the E60? No. Rather it would be styling.
Regards,
Chris M
May I point out that both the Z4 and 7 series are outselling their predecessors. I am positive the new 5 series will too.
I really don't know how car "enthuiasts" can base their dismissal on a picture alone. Chris, take a good look at a pic of an A6 and tell me it looks great based on the pic...looks more like a box on wheels. I like the A6 but after Audi's mechanical problems in the 80's I am suprised they were able to stay afloat.
I talked myself out of the Z4 when it came out, because I have a Z3..and didn't want there to be a sweeter version. Chris I am afraid you maybe doing the same thing.
I don't know the price of the A6 in the US, but in Canada it is $20,000 less the 530 and is not considered in the same class.
Curious how you saw one when they are starting production in months? I was in Great Britain and in France not much longer than a week ago on business and I even went to a dealership in Paris...they did not have any yet.
Did I see a test mule? I would bet money on it. If you check around, you will find that there are pictures all over the internet of the new 5-Series being tested in southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and at least one (picture that is) that I saw from France.
Another item; if you check the "Infiniti G35 Coupe" discussion, message number 67, dated 10-June-2002, you will find a post that I made with a link to pictures that I took of actual G35 Coupes. While I have no idea of when they went into production, the discussions of the time indicated that the G35 Coupe wouldn't be in production for at least 3 to 6 months.
Did I see a new E60? Yes. Do I like it? No. Do I wish I had my camera handy? Yes.
Best Regards,
Shipo
How long would it take for us to hear you say "that styling of new 5 series is growing on me ...."?
M
Thanks for the "Heads Up".
Best Regards,
Shipo
That's not a tough enough standard. Do they have more market share then their predecessors when they were brand new? That would actually mean something.
The A6 a box on wheels? It's the opposite, far more rounded and stylish than anything in its class. Nothing boxy about it. The Avants look just as good.
-juice
And why the horizontal dash? Not real 'cockpit' like. Don't much care for the "NFL referee instant replay viewing station" in the middle of the dash.
Whatever happened to a driver oriented interior? This thing is starting to take on the look of a late 70's early 80's Buick.
Isn't the front grille telling enough? You cannot mistake it for any other car. Even the Z4 has this oh so unique grille design. Copied by many, never equalled.
Why, oh why are people so reluctant to change?
Fact: The predictions of the 7 Series' demise due to the new styling were WRONG
Fact: The new 7 series has caught on with the public.
The above will hold true for the new 5 series as well. It is going to be a great car. And, it will always be a BMW! I can't wait to see one in person. I hope I am able to purchase one. I am going to look into European Delivery to see if I can swing one. Does anyone know what the ED price will be for the new 04?