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BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign
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Comments
The 7 looks different, but once the 5 is out they'll still have similar styling, and probably the next 3 when that comes.
I can see that he's trying to add some character back (by the way, your 1990 5 gets an A+ from me in styling terms). Just lose the hunch backs, the cars look fat.
The A6 and A8 look a lot different, especially in person (they had both at the NY Auto Show). The A4 is similar to the A6, though.
-juice
Please don't mention Azteks and BMWs in the same sentence ;-)
The Azteks are ugly from any and all angles. There is absolutely zero redeeming value, IMO. Wait, I take that back. If an Aztek rolls over, you can use it as a trash bin, so there... If not for the SUV craze, it would have sold exactly zero.
The new 7/5/Z4 might be controversial but hardly in the same league as the Azteks. IMO, the 7 has a avant garde presence. Much like the controversial new Lexus SC430 which I like. It has some American styling cues, slightly different from the strictly Teutonic in the previous. I think the 5 will go down the same path as the 7 and Z4 - controversial but a welcome change when compared to Audi and Mercedes.
BMW has been almost universally criticized for the "same sausage, different length" styling. That's probably why Chris Bangle is trying so hard.
Yes, that was the case and exactly my comments about Mercedes. Chris has a tough job. He could have easily gone down the 'safe' path like Mercedes did.
The A6 and A8 look a lot different, especially in person (they had both at the NY Auto Show). The A4 is similar to the A6, though.
I should add that I was looking at the current A4/6/8 from the front and front 3/4 and it is hard to tell which is which unless you're really up close. Mercedes is like that. BMW was like that. I think the new 5(from the photos) and 7 looks different enough.
Just lose the hunch backs, the cars look fat.
You mean the new 5 looks fat because of the hunchback? Looking at it independently from the rest of the car, yes it looks kinda fat (like the Camry). But overall and with a nice set of wheels/tires, it should look fine. In fact, if you compare the back of a 1990 5 vs 1997 5, you can say the same.
Cheers,
kirstie
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None of them are Aztec ugly, I agree.
The "fat" one is the 7, that has the worst hunchback. But the 5 looks a little heavier too, the pillars look thicker, there's less glass it seems.
I prefer big green houses.
It may be a trend, though. Dodge showed the Magnum at NY (surprise, their stand drew HUGE crowds), and the Chrsyler 300C. Both also have really thick, beefy pillars. I'd be worried about blind spots, not sure I like that trend.
-juice
Does anyone know where Bangle worked prior to joining BMW? Are there many examples of his previous projects on the road?
Shippo, by any chance did you see the vehicle in the same place? Probably some well placed French govt. official getting the perks of office!
Thanks for the "Heads Up".
Best Regards,
Shipo
In a way Bangle is screwing up what Zapatinas (and his successor) did at BMW.
-juice
Later on my trip, after I had seen that car, I stopped in to a BMW dealership to see if they had any on the floor but they did not. The one salesman there was busy and I didn't have time to wait to talk with him to get any further info.
It's not ugly, it's just not attractive, or even "conservatively handsome".
And it looks too similar to the current one, which is too wimpy for me.
I hope BMW give have a new options of a new panaromic sunroof like the new E-Class.
The moonroof in the E is very cool by the way.
-juice
increased for '04 and by how much?
Very bad accident.
http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=76ef41d585e2b51ae- 66a4ee19bcd570f&threadid=30862
Best Regards,
Shipo
-juice
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/100112/articl- - e.html
Maybe these reviews of experts who actually saw the car and drove it will put a muzzle on some of the whining in here!
it still took three BMW engineers nearly 10 minutes to switch our test car's system from German to English when we asked them to help us perform this function
And in the other article, saying the new 5 "isn't that scary" is more a back-handed complement, no?
I agree with the author that the 92-96 models were by far the best looking.
-juice
To me, how a car looks is a significant portion of the "Grade" that I give said car. A car could have all of the performance and other goodies that I want in a car, and be ugly (take yet another note, I deem the E60 to be ugly, just not as ugly as a CTX for example), and that would be enough to cause me to look elsewhere.
Regarding 5-Series models gone by, I would be proud to have a 1992-1995 5-Series in my stable, and I am proud to have a 2002 5-Series as my current daily driver. I find it highly unlikely that I will have an E60, unless (or should I say, until) the inevitable ~3 year face lift proves to be more visually attractive.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If the new 5 Series performs, she'll sell. Indications are good performance wise.
Don't judge a book by pictures of the book cover. You have to see the car in the flesh, touch her, walk around her, and drive her. Only then will you know if the car looks up to your standards.
If you read the article closely on the Idrive system he also said, "And if it's all still too confusing, most of the functions can be invoked from dedicated dash-mounted controls or from the standard-fitment multi-function steering wheel."
That's right you can have the choice of boring manual controls like every other car, or Idrive. But let me point out all medium to high end cars will have an "idrive" type system within the next 10 years allowing internet access and email retrieval. All the major car companies are working on it and are getting ready for release. So get used to it.
As far as "isn't that scary" the author was comparing it to other vehchles..calling them scary. The quote is "Let's start with the styling. Maybe we've become inured to BMW's new design direction after the 7 and the Z4. But the new 5 just isn't that scary"
Not really sure where the author stated that "the 92-96 models were by far the best looking.". I really think you should read the articles more thoroughly if you are going to draw from them.
But they did say "While the 2004 BMW 5 Series is considered a complete redesign, the changes to its basic character seem more like subtle refinement. It was already a comfortable, capable and highly dynamic machine. The latest version is still all of these things, just a bit more so. You could say it's still basically the same vehicle, but now "it goes up to 11."
As far as "shippo"'s comment, "how a car looks is a significant portion of the "Grade" that I give said car". I really don't have much comment for that as you obviously should be at the Home and Garden site critiquing bedrooms. And leave this place for actual drivers.
For the record, I do not like the E60, and if that offends anybody, that is not my problem. For those who like the E60, I can only say that I am glad they have found a car that they like.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was at the Telematics conference in Detroit in 2000 when Ford and Qualcomm announced Wingcast, an all singing and dancing 'mobile office' initiative. There were presentations on getting stock quotes, booking hotels, making dinner reservations, having your car transmit error codes directly to your dealership then check your calendar and book an appointment and on and on .....
Meanwhile, OnStar gave one clear message - "you're driving on a deserted road at 3 am, hit a tree and are injured, how do you get help?" That simplicity really resonated and the "safety and security" aspect of telematics became the predominant theme. At a time when cell phone use is being legislated away, the trend is for less distractions while driving, not more. Wingcast folded in 2002 and OnStar turned a profit in Q1 2003.
The problem with idrive is that it requires concentration and eyes off the road to operate (unless you want to pull over and stop to change a few settings). Ok, so many idrive controls are replicated elsewhere, then why have idrive? BMW could replace the manual/visual components of idrive with voice commands, but again, why have idrive in the first place?
It seems that BMW have taken a "because we can" attitude in developing idrive. The best guess is that it will either disappear or evolve to be an entirely different system more in line with safety considerations and consumer demand.
I understand the brain will adjust and remember after certain practice. However the thought of my better half who, most likely an occassion driver of the bimmer because of MT, may not fully master this AFS and find herself staring at an oncoming truck, is really troubling.
Have you checked out Edmunds first thoughts on the new 5 Series?
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As for the i-drive, I was hoping they would have simplified it a lot from the 7, but it doesn't really sound like they have. I would actually prefer some other standard luxury features like a great in-dash 6-disc changer, auto-headlights and such that other cars in this class already offer. However, I do give BMW a lot of credit for pushing the technology envelope. You have to take some chances and go out on a limb in order to revolutionize things instead of just incremental upgrades. Just my opinion.
In my opinion, my 1990 5 looks as good as my 1997 5. But in the performance department, we are talking about 7 years of engineering refinement in the works. That is a hard fact to ignore especially from a company like BMW. So when I test drove the 1997 5, it was its performance that won me over, not the looks.
The 2004 5 would have to work the same magic in the performance department (its look is fine) for me to sign those papers.
I somewhat agree that some people buy BMW for the badge - the “Stereotypical BMW owner" but for me that was the furthest from my mind.
FWIW, I think the M coupe would have been perfect if I don't already have my 2-seater sports car which has comparable performance.
Several testers mentioned that AFS failed during hard winding road testing, and they had to use Microsoft solutions (shut down and power up) to reboot. Sometimes even the reboot failed to bring it back on. They also mentioned that BMW engineers on hand had no clue what the problem was. They suspected something electrical (sounds familiar? E65?). Someone called the first batch of E60 buyers "beta testers", I would agree, having been a "beta tester" myself years ago. What a mistake!
Back to AFS, most press reviews on E60 were written by people who, I would say, are very experienced, very good drivers. However that can't be said for general 5-series buyers. How many E39 are auto? How many E39 are driven by women? How many are old?
http://eldercare.uniontrib.com/retirement/agetimeline.html
My point is not to start a debate of auto vs manual or about women or old driver, it is rather that the vast majority of future E60 owners will not have Michael Shumacher-like reflexes or experience to deal with a sudden malfunction of something as critical as steering wheel. If one person gets injured due to this new technology, that is one too many to me.
So I wish the AFS will be a STAND-ALONE option (not bundled with ZSP) or can be turned off intentionally, to give people a choice.
AFS are for Cadillac and 18-wheeler, no?
"How does the car look? As if it has been got at by double agents from Japan. Unimpressive flanks, frontal view like a Nissan. A bit of a clunker, actually.
Interior is nice, though? All right. A bit cramped and clinical, decorated a bit like an intensive care ward with the emphasis on switches and less on luxuriating. And I doubt BMW's claim that you can get four golf bags in the boot. We can test that later.
So good points? Technically astonishing, probably as good, if not better, as anything on the road.
Bad points? Clinical, dowdy, passionless"
In a related article on idrive:
"Perhaps Audi and BMW and Mercedes make these gadget-laden monsters, not because anybody knows how they work, but because they have got them and you have not; it is motoring one-upmanship"
I think that this is the first time I've read "passionless" when describing a BMW, a real pity I think. Not a real surprise that it's "technically astonishing" though.
The new E60, though not a work of art, will probably still be technical superior to the competition. Regardless of what the British media say, there will probably be plenty of punters that will dole out 50K quid to pay for it (pending they don't buy a 520i).
Yes I know that the Brit media is cruel, vindictive and sensationalist but anyone who can single-handedly humiliate the Royal Family can't be all bad.
It's also true that the Brits have built cars that make the Trabant look good. But that's just part of a master plan to breed legions of shadetree mechanics who found innovative ways to keep their cars running, even when it rains.
Strangely enough, most of the engines and/or chassis that the IRL and CART depend on are built in the UK. And in F1, most of the cars are designed and built in the UK. Even Ferrari were also-rans until they hired a couple of Brit designers (heresy but true).
Motto: "we can build race cars that can go 0-100mph-0 in 5 sec but we can't make passenger cars that can make it around the block if it's cloudy." Oh well.
Excerpt: "The non-AS car felt like a tank compared to the AS car. Active steering made a tremendous difference in how easy it was to change lanes but still keep the car under complete control--a difference noted by every journalist on hand. From that moment on, I knew that in the never-ending battle for technological supremacy, BMW had a new weapon in its arsenal--one which I can't wait to arm myself."
Well, I'm 10 years older than the average BMW buyer, I'm 54. I just bought a 530i, 5 speed, sport pack. Well, I know my reflexes don't match the Formula 1 drivers, do yours? Hey, what's your point. you want me to drive something else? Just send it over and I'll consider it.
Jack
Some great photographs. This was BMW's press introduction on Sardinia. Appears they were driving mostly (only?) new 530i. Drove both 6-speed manual and automatic, but they didn't drive SMG
Interesting story. Enjoyed their comments about AFS. As they put it, AFS in a slalom "really shined. It guided the car through the cones faster and with less effort than the passive steering, which seemed to fight you rather than assist after several hard, fast cranks of the wheel. But the weighting of the active steering feld odd, as if the amount of assist was changing all the time, which it was, of course." One of the AFS cars had to be reset several times. They point out that "if active steering completely fails for any reason, it returns to a set ratio that doesn't vary."
Sport Package includes AFS and ARS (active roll stabilization).