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BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign
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Comments
The profile of the 6 looks good, they just need to sort out the details better.
-juice
The 740 bled us dry on maintenance when 3 years was up..and even before! Is the 500 series the same? And aren't the maintenance plans just kind of smokescreens? It's always $400 here and $750 there NO MATTER WHAT! I want to love the car, but for the price, it should have better reliability built in. Your views?
Sonja in L.A.
Happy Motoring,
Jack
Also, you're not going in for service every 3000 miles. They are much less frequent, 10k miles or more at times.
They do charge more at each stop, but overall it may not be as bad as it sounds.
-juice
My German friends think this current designer at BMW has destroyed a classic German automobile company.
Get the 5 while they last, and soon the mini-5 (3 series) comes next year. Pictures are posted here in Germany on www.t-online.de under the TEST & TECHNIK section.
It's too bad, many would have picked up current body style 5's had they not abruptly ended production in early July.
Let's see how BMW recovers from this?
We already bought a car for my wife, and we're perfectly happy with it, but still, that is very tempting. If she were shopping today and she wanted it, I can't say I'd stop her.
-juice
"The 3-series is still a standard setter and the normal M3 is extraordinarily good. But the best of the lot is the 5-series.
I drove a 530i last week and, even though it's been with us for seven years, I still think it's the best executive car of them all. Audi, Mercedes and Jaguar can all offer us more modern alternatives but none can quite match the absolute rightness of the Five.
It looks good whether it's parked on the block paving outside a Barratt executive home or on the gravel drive of a Georgian vicarage. It suits the underground car park of a Docklands development in London and blends perfectly with the rustic charm of a rural barn.
This ability to adapt like a chameleon is seen on the road, too. Whether it's on a motorway, a sweeping Welsh A-road or on the way to the pub in Worth Matravers it doesn't just cope, it shines."
Very true, it sure is a pity that BMW had to mess so radically with such a universally admired car. Glad I got mine.
Jack
-juice
I just think it lost its cockpit feel. Smaller Bimmers seem to capture that better.
-juice
After looking over the 5 at bmwusa, the car looked a lot better in dark colors.
In my opinion, what made a BMW interior, a BMW interior, was that it was very driver oriented. That has been lost.
Jack
Fortunately I still have time for one more round of E46s (the last of the good designs). I have an AWD sedan on order and will order another next year.
Two words for the rear-end of the new 5: "KIA Rio".
Sad, that a $40K+ car has been redesigned to look like an economy car (at least from the rear angle).
-juice
525 39,300
530 44,300
545 54,300
Some options are standard.
Was thinking of going for the European Delivery program but after I saw the pictures, I am seriously thinking of going to my local dealer for the 2003 525.
Get a new one NOW a(even a 530)while the incentives are on, and enjoy the style you have loved all along. Get crazy, life is short. I just go a 530iA SP CWP for $40,575 ($3200 below invoice).
-juice
7 Series doing OK but not improving on sales from last year.
Units Sold in USA, ranked by July 2003 Sales Volume:
Make Model July 2003 July 2002 2003 YTD 2002 YTD
BMW 3 Series 5,984 5,282 42,268 39,535
BMW 5 Series 5,022 3,195 26,192 23,664
BMW 7 Series 1,595 2,094 11,530 12,837
BMW M5 122 146 1,180 1,102
As far as the design, I think it will succeed, just because the 5 is the "best sedan in the world"(?), and the designer will get all kind of praise as a result. I think it would be a killer and sell 4x more if they had not taken such ugly themes, in the 7 and 5; a real pitty.
"Top Cat - Jaguar rejoice as UK car magazines rate S-Type as best drivers car, whilst stating the new BMW-5 is "Average" and the E-Class 'Mediocre'.
Insiders at BMW are initially quoting this as a disaster, indeed there are rumours that the Quandt family are singularly unimpressed with both designers and engineers for trying too hard to out-do Jaguar and Mercedes. The result? Lack of interest from customers. Where orders once went in sight-unseen, people are now waiting to see the car in person. BMW's board is stunned.
Meanwhile, Jaguar engineers at Browns Lane, Coventry, England are rejoicing as UK car magazines rate the new BMW-5 as "Average" and "no longer the ultimate driving machine" in recent road test reviews. Pitted against the 3-litre S-Type, 3.2-litre E-Class and a 3-litre 5-Series, the big cat came out on top as the best car,and most importantly, the best overall drivers car. The Bee Emm has been champion for a long time now and already it has a bloody nose from it's first fight!
According to reporters, BMW have made the new 5 "ponderous" and "strangely uninvolving" and some suggest that the variable rate steering is "not a success". Whilst inside the car, ergonomics are best described as "ill thought out". Those who have seen the car in British sunlight say that the BMW 7 looks better - and you know how lamented that has been!
In the UK, buyers are being offered cars within weeks of the launch, and some importers quicker than that - suggesting an apathy to the car from an early stage. I have it on quiet authority that those in the BMW board who are not completely arrogant are aware that the 5-series is the companies most important model range and were it to fail (ala 7-series), the unthinkable could happen. After all, it is rumoured that Daimler/Chrysler are still looking for acquisitions!"
Saying that Brits "cheer for the home team" any more than anyone else is plain silly. Every country does to some extent but I've read many articles accusing Brit mags of favoring BMW, Honda et al at the expense of Brit makes. What you've said is the equivalent to saying that R&T, MT & C&D are "homers" when they are often accused of exactly the reverse.
Maybe, just maybe BMW have made a major faux pas with the E60 and are beginning to see the fallout.
Bristol Blenheim 3G - This car looked like it had been made by me. And I simply cannot think of a worse thing to say. It was awful. Beyond awful.
The Jaguar I’ve just been driving is rather ugly, has four cylinders, diesel power, front-wheel drive, uses the same platform as a Mondeo and is slower and cheaper than certain Skodas I could mention.
In the same week that I had the XKR I had an Aston Martin DB7 Vantage. This is not a good car: it’s even more cramped that the Jaguar, it has much less equipment and you can’t reach the switches.
So with the new model, Lotus changed the suspension and fitted narrower front tyres so that now it behaves just like a Golf. Go into a corner too fast and it understeers. Come out too fast and it understeers. It doesn’t matter what you do with the pedals, you can break-dance on them if you want, and it’ll still understeer. That’s safe. But if you want safe, buy a condom.
I’d always thought that the Morgan Plus 8 was a fast car. A big engine in a light body and so on. But I suspect it isn’t. I can’t be absolutely sure because the speedo was completely obscured by the steering wheel, but in the time it took to overtake a lorry I had time to say 117 Hail Marys.
TVR - it is a bit ugly. And I don't mean charismatically bent and broken like a scrum half's ears. I mean ugly like the Elephant Man.
Let me just say that again to make sure you all understand how fair I’m being. The Vauxhall Astra GSi is good value. Well done Vauxhall, come to the front of the class and have a biscuit. Okay. Got that? Good, because the rest of the Astra GSi is awful.
I was reading British automotive press in 1970s and 1980s. Back when Britain still had an auto industry and they could cheer for the home team, which they did. Not sure what is left amidst the wreckage of today's British auto industry. Thinking maybe TVR, Bristol, and Morgan are about it for Brits. Is Reliant still around? Thinking they went bankrupt. Thinking MG might be British but could be international consortium. (For past 50 years Bristol has been an historically financially strapped, low volume company. Minor player. They took BMW engine, transmission, and chassis designs as WW II war reparations and built what really was a BMW for nearly 15 years before switching to USA (Chrysler?) V8 engines and ATs in 1960s.)
Ya gotta keep in mind Jaguar is owned by Ford. RR by BMW. Bentley by VW. Rover by Ford. Ford (Ford) and Vauxhall (GM). Japanese plants building cars there.
But no major British auto company is left. Sad.
(If I could read Swedish, would be interesting to see what that nation's press is writing now that USA has swallowed up Volvo (Ford) and Saab (GM).)
I think that you were saying that the E60 review was slanted by a parochial homer viewpoint by Brit car reviewers. I've said (and hopefully shown) that there is no validity to that suggestion. The E60 review was written recently, how are the 70's/80's remotely relevant?
BTW my original message was confusing. The base prices I mentioned are US MSRPs. The European Delivery program will continue to provide the discounts.
sdautoreview:
I think BMW will still sell a lot of cars. A majority of folks who buy BMWs in the US, especially the 5&7 series, buy it for the image; the typical lease crowd. Those sales are going to be high since the looks are changing after 7 years. The purists and the enthusiasts might be put off but they do not matter that much in the big picture. The rising stock market and the improving economy too may have something to do with the increased 5 series sales numbers.
BMW is a tightly controlled company and unlikely to sell out because of one bad year.
Vsaxena:
I understand you're view on this matter. Good point! Time will show what will ultimately happen though.
You wrote, "The following is from autospies.com:
"Top Cat - Jaguar rejoice as UK car magazines rate S-Type as best drivers car, whilst stating the new BMW-5 is "Average" and the E-Class 'Mediocre'...Insiders at BMW are initially quoting this as a disaster, indeed there are rumours that the Quandt family are singularly unimpressed with both designers and engineers for trying too hard to out-do Jaguar and Mercedes ... BMW's board is stunned. Jaguar engineers...are rejoicing as UK car magazines rate the new BMW-5 as "Average" and "no longer the ultimate driving machine"...I have it on quiet authority that those in the BMW board who are not completely arrogant ... the unthinkable could happen. After all, it is rumoured that Daimler/Chrysler are still looking for acquisitions!"
This article is hilarious overstatement. Almost parody. Tried to use editing to point out all the hype, speculation, rumour, unnamed sources, and assumption. The out-of-control, over-the-top language is funny. Loved the bogus, farsical implication that MB might somehow buy BMW!
I then merely wrote, "Brits can be A BIT parochial... historically... Used to laugh in the '70s and '80s...." (emphasis added)
If you had been reading British automotive press back in the 1970s and 1980s (as I was), you would've recognized this sort of article every time a truly Brit company came out with its next supposedly world-beater car, whether it was Rover, Triumph, or Jaguar. For example, read the ancient unfulfilled hype of the old TR-7 and TR-8.
Think karmikian read bit too much into my minor response. (British press has long been aghast at what Bristol is forced to do. TVR also lacks funds necessary to be truly world-class competitive. Being (easily) honest about those points is like saying AMC was at a disadvantage against GM and Ford in early 1970s.)
Anyway, why did I post it? Because it blasts the look of E60 in the manner in which I and many others have been doing. Sorry but I don’t see any parody in this (and if there is, I believe it went over the heads of the editors at autospies also). It validates the opinions of me and the naysayers. Let me remind you I’m talking strictly about styling, not technical aspects.
With regard to Karmikan, I’m not going to speak for him, but I would think the word “parochial” pushed his buttons no matter how mild you tried to make it, or how innocent your intentions might have been. That’s just about synonymous with “narrow-minded”, and sorry again, but it’s off the mark IMO. No matter how accurate you may be about the British press of yesteryear, the quotes he gathered, if correct, were good retort and apply to the subject at hand.
I hope we’re not making too much out of this.
BTW, I still haven’t gotten over the Jag problems of yesteryear to make me consider buying one, and now that’s it’s owned by Ford... well... you know where this is going.
[And there isn't anyone who can convince me that deep down the average Brit, auto journalist or just average John Bull on the street, doesn't subconsciously want HM Jag to be better than the Chancellor's BMW or MB. I'll believe differently once the British Royal Family, esp. the Queen, drives either a brand new RR (BMW) or Bentley (VW). Anyone know what the Queen and Crown Prince are driving these days? ]