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Acura TSX

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    himiler
    ATTS is dead. The LSD (cheaper, lighter, more effective) in the CL-S 6-speed nailed the coffin shut.
    Nope. ATTS has returned, albeit in a prototype, serving the same purpose and more. DNX/Dualnote is equipped with ATTS.

    ickes_mobile
    I don't think alpha-numeric names are "interesting", but at least the Germans are logical about it. If anyone can figure out the Japanese system, great
    I think there lies the problem. You're trying to figure out the "Japanese system" (not sure what that means).
    I'm sure use of alphanumeric names has also to do with them being 'cooler', and it doesn't have to follow a set of rules. Mercedes' SLK (not S-class) versus CLK (not C-class, or is it?), or BMW's M3, M-Roadster, Z3, X5 etc. retain numbers in most cases (not in M-Roadster though), but what does "X" or "Z" indicate? It doesn't have to mean something. For a while, BMW 323i had 2.5 liter I-6, 540i had 4.4 liter V8 and what does that "i" indicate?

    There is no Japanese or European system, it is just a way they have chosen to market their product. Another good example, not relating to car names, but at equipment level.
    European automakers seem to like the sound of 'ic' in their new feature list. These are also catchy words that may or may not make sense, but sound cool. "Distronic" (Acura called it 'smart cruise control' in TLX concept), "Parktronic", "tiptronic", "Airmatic" (suspension) are some good examples.
  • ttlttlttlttlttlttl Member Posts: 24
    with so many high tech features, it'll be "Problematic" ;)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Sedan or hatchback? This is from the Japan site, and there's a rear windshield wiper...


    http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/ACCORD/200210/img/05_09.jpg

  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    wrong phase - I meant generalize that none of the Japanese makers any sense, not that they use the same "system". Also, its not like I'm really obsessed with this, its just an observation. I'd buy the product regardless of the name.

    Another example: I read in the MT 2003 new truck preview that the new Lexus GX470 slots between the bigger LX470 and the RX300. Now obviously, Lexus got it partially right in that the nubmer part refers to engine size, but how does "G" slot between "L" and "R"?

    Like I said, they just think it sounds cool...
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    Info on the Euro Accord estate model...


    http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=44297

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Here is another link for the wagon.


    http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORDwagon/


    I really hope this make it to the States.

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    but how does "G" slot between "L" and "R"?
    Why does it have to?

    Features or names, its all about marketing.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Some interesting specs...
    Picture: Euro-R
    Engine: (K20A) 1998 cc, DOHC iVTEC
    Output: 220 HP @ 8000 rpm, 152 lb.-ft @ 6000 rpm
    Transmission: 6-speed manual
    Curb weight: 3058 lb.
    Tire: P215/45/R17

    Pictures: 24-series & Power/Torque Curve
    Engine: (K24A) 2354 cc, DOHC iVTEC
    Output: 200 HP @ 6800 rpm, 172 lb.-ft @ 4500 rpm
    Transmission: 5-speed SportShift Auto
    Curb Weight: 3120 lb. to 3190 lb.
    Tires: P205/55/R16 or P215/45/R17
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I hope when it comes over to the states it'll come standard with the fog lamps. Without them, the car just doesn't look as cohesive.

    P.S.- I like the Mercedes-Benz-ish turn signals on the side mirrors. Will all Acuras come with this feature from now on?
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Re: ATTS alive and well?

    When I see it on another production vehicle, I'll be convinced. However, given Honda's current focus upon hybrid and weight-saving technology, I still fail to see a practical application for a system as heavy and complex as ATTS when a wheel-specific electric motor could be used instead.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    that's kind of my point. If its all about marketing, then why not use more evocative names, i.e., "Legend".
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    "Euro Accord" sounds like too much like the fabulous Chevy "Eurosport" cars that no one misses.

    Acura should bring back the Vigor nameplate for the TSX, and dump their silly - and arbitrary - alphanumeric naming system.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Yeah, and they should dump that Acura logo too! It ain't original, and everybody does it. Why not just spell it out, like they did until about 1990(?). Let us start with NSX, any suggestions?

    And why couldn't they come up with a name for their first cars/prototypes. X170, X190, S360, S500, T500, S800, CVCC... silly moves. Wait, they did manage to convert CVCC into Civic!

    They should do it with their motorcycles too. GoldWing, Valkeryie, Shadow sound so good, who cares about CBR1100?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    ATTS is part of the hybrid system in DNX/Dualnote. And if that drivetrain, or a variant of, gets into production, ATTS would too. Use of ATTS in a futuristic prototype only indicates that it wasn't dumped, unfortunately the only car using it, was.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    ...I think its really creative to have engineering calipers in the form of an "A" for "Acura"te...
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Until I started reading these boards, I always thought the Acura logo was an A. I never bothered looking closely at it...yup, it's a caliper.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    ickes- Remember our discussion about gooseneck hinges on the Accord thread?


    http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/issue/2002/1011/npr_kt1011_03_15.jpg


    Apparently, Honda was saving it...

  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    the trunk smaller on the TSX/Euro Accord to make the Toyota design work? Imagine the volume had they used it on the NA version. Cheap bastxxx...
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Not to be rude, but why are you hung up on ATTS? Operationally, it performed as intended in the Prelude SH (when not malfunctioning due to wheelspin), but makes little sense on the bottom line ($$) when you can just throw in a lighter, maintenance-free LSD and get better traction and equivalent cornering.

    Honda can't "sell" typical Honda buyers on the benefits of ATTS (which might explain why they've stopped trying), and the only people who recognize the benefit and want it (enthusiasts) would still prefer to have a mechanical LSD.

    Without a doubt, ATTS is some nifty engineering. That said, I have serious doubts as to whether or not Honda/Acura will be able to make it affordable (and reliable) enough to see it incorporated into multiple, high-volume models. To my knowledge, the only other production car employing a similar system is the Mitsu EVO VII, which has that cool Active Yaw Control in the front. But again, the EVO is a low-volume, near-boutique car, and I don't see Mitsu using AYC on any other models, either.

    On another topic, the Acura "A" is also a play on the Honda "H"--I remember that they wanted to show a familial relation between the two car lines.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    You mean the H isn't really an H, as the A isn't really a letter A, but instead a caliper?
    Then what's the H?!
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    isn't ATTS on the acura cl type s?
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I thought the only vehicle that had ATTS was the Prelude? Maybe I am wrong...
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,428
    The CL Type S w/6 speed manual uses a mechanical LSD, not ATTS.

    ATTS is definitely cool, I have it on my 2001 Prelude Type SH, but Himiler has installed a (Quaife?) mechanical LSD on his 2001 Prelude for less than the $2500 premium that Honda charged for the ATTS in the Type SH model. In addition to handling enhancements, himiler also enjoys easier launches, and additional benefits in inclement weather.

    BTW, if Honda couldn't sell ATTS to himiler then...

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • 1wiseguy1wiseguy Member Posts: 120
    I just came back from holidays in europe (my first time there) and could not wait to see all the different cars. I was extremely disappointed. There are a lot of Peugeots, Renaults, Seats, Opels, etc but almost no Hondas. In fact, I saw only a handful of Hondas despite visiting Barcelona, the south of France, Rome, Florence and Palma, Mallorca. I was also quite surprised to see the Mercedes A140. After seeing that, I no longer see the attraction for MB's See for yorself.


    http://www.carkeys.co.uk/roadtest/RT000061.htm

  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    Merc has anounced plans to bring the next generation A-Class to the US in 2005. In fact, there was a news items this morning that they will import a number of the current generation cars with Hydrogen fuel cells in order to being generating interest.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Not to be rude, but why are you hung up on ATTS? Operationally...
    I'm not sure who got hung up in the argument, but here is how it started...

    "ATTS is dead. The LSD (cheaper, lighter, more effective) in the CL-S 6-speed nailed the coffin shut."

    And I said... "ATTS is part of the hybrid system in DNX/Dualnote... Use of ATTS in a futuristic prototype only indicates that it wasn't dumped..."

    I'm not sure what frustrates you about this, but thats alright. We should be discussing TSX here anyway.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    You mean the H isn't really an H, as the A isn't really a letter A, but instead a caliper?
    I think I know what himiler meant. If you look closely at the Honda "H" and the Acura "A" (the calipers), you will notice similarities. move the upper arms of the "H" closer and it will look very similar to the Acura "A". Also, both H and A sit inside a squarish rim (less noticeable in Acura).
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Oh geesh...now we have to imagine these things?! LOL Nah, I'm not falling for that. The caliper in the Acura A is credible. But the H reasoning is like Toyota claiming its logo is supposed to be a bull.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    If ATTS isn't dead, then would it be fair to call it comatose? ;^)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    himilar,
    One that has received some treatment recently! :-)

    diploid,
    Supertruck!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I was looking at the recent pics of TSX. The sedan looks nice, but the wagon sure has a droopy rear. Why is the current trend to make the roof slope down towards the back? It makes the car uglier (especially when it is exaggerated by the windows getting smaller with more space above them) cuts down on rear head room, and cuts down on cargo space. Mazda 6, audi and Passat wagons do not do this (or at least not much) and they are some of the nicest looking wagons out there.


    http://auto.ascii24.com/auto24/auto24.cgi?source=issue/2002/1011/npr_kt1011_04_11.html

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Could this be the reason? (Aerodynamics)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    but they exagerate it by making the windows not go up as high, and sedans look nothing like the swooping bird with their trunks sticking out, yet they manage .26 drag.
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    I think that they made the tsx's wagon longer than the sedan. Mainly to get more utility out of it. IMO this has made it ugly. Darn and I was hoping to get one too
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The wagon is longer than the sedan (187" versus 183.6"), still shorter than American Accord (189.5"). It also sits on a longer wheelbase (105.1" versus 106.9"), same as 98-02 American Accord Sedan.
    Here are a few pictures...
    Exterior-Side View
    Exterior-Top View
    Exterior-Front Profile
    Interior-Top view
    Interior-Cargo
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    my point. If they had made it shorter the wagon would probably look alot better. A sport wagon is what I want like the IS or the BMW wagon but for a lot less money. Now I may have to consider either the sedan or expand my budget
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I agree, the wagon is a bit too long. Obviously they did it for utility, but it looks more like a little hearse than a sport wagon (I'm assuming that's what Honda wants to call it).

    The Mazda6 wagon is more well proportioned.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    I agree about the Audi wagons but disagree about the Passat wagon looking great. The Passat Sedan has a classy look, which unfortunately is not carried over to the Passat wagon. The Audis look GREAT however. JMHO.
  • hunter001hunter001 Member Posts: 851
    ..in the back, does detract from the sporting look.

    For instance, the Infiniti G35 Coupe looks Fantastic and well proportioned, while the G35 sedan with quite a bit more overhang (when compared to the coupe), does not look as good.

    Later...AH
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    I think honda missed out (again!!) in making a great sport wagon. The sedan looks great all they had to do was put a little extra on top of the trunk and that would have been fine.
    If you want to talk about a good looking wagon the crysler/mercedes pacifica/gt looks fine. too bad its a crysler though
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    First of all, I think there's definitely room for the TSX in Canada, as there's a big gap between the EL (tops out around 23K) and the TL (around 37K), so the TSX should slot right in the middle.
    (The RSX goes from 24 to just over 30K). I was really looking forward to the wagon and hoping Acura would bring it here as well but after seeing it, I'm not so sure. What's with the "Caprice-like" rear overhang? And, although a sport wagon should be sporty, if you're going to get people out of their gas-sucking SUV's, you'd better raise the hip-point and make it taller...
    say halfway between the height of a traditional wagon and an SUV. I copied a photo into the "Paint" program and stretched it vertically about 120%.......seemed to improve the hearse-like looks, though the overhang still looks too long. The one-touch folding seats are nice (but the Mazda 6 has them too) but who needs a power tailgate with struts hidden in the roof, making the inside roof lower and taking more height out of the cargo area? The Mazda 6, while vertically challenged as well, looks a whole lot better and will come with both a 4 and a 6 as well....seems to be the better choice at this point.
  • 1wiseguy1wiseguy Member Posts: 120
    If you are like me and wont drive an auto trans, you'd have to move up to the TL-S, with an MSRP of 41K. I agree, there's a lot of room for a 5 speed sporty sedan in the low-mid 30 range in Canada. I plan on getting a new car in the spring and am looking at the Mazda 6, the TSX and possibly the Maxima.
  • petpadpetpad Member Posts: 153
    Hi folks - I've been watching the TSX for a while and I am excited. I drive a 5-sp Acura Vigor and nothing has ever excited me in the Acura line-up since then, save for the NSX of course. This summer I drove an Alfa 156, a real blast of a sports sedan, and I swear the new 2003 Euro Accord is a knock-off of the Alfa, which has been going strong since 1999 or so. The lines are almost identical and the Euro Accord is obviously a direct competitor for the Alfa. Of course, we cant have the Alfa here in Canada...dang. Anyway, I looove my Vigor, but being a 1992, and few low miles Vigor left around, I have to think trade... and the TSX 5-sp may just be the right ticket..

    Pet
    1992 Vigor LS 5-sp
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    What's the latest info on availability date of the TSX?
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    Last I heard was spring 2003 as 2004 model, sounds reasonable since the RSX came out in spring rather than traditional fall.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    at the NAIAS in January and be on sale by late February or early March based on what I have read.
  • akumaakuma Member Posts: 70
    They're all Hondas anyway.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I was following a Vigor couple of days ago, and the same thought crossed my mind. TSX is its true replacement, albeit I doubt it will carry an Inline-5.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    in the November volume of CAR. These two comments pretty much sum it up:

    "Styling, though, is tame." and "...the Accord is absolutely middle of the road dynamically."

    They do say the five speed is a "honey" and that both engines are "crisp and smooth".
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Middle of the road dynamics has been a Honda thing. May be not if it were a Type-R model. Which model this they test drive? Type-S?
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