Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Nissan Truck

1111214161724

Comments

  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    That's an interesting description of Renault. Admittedly their US product had some problems, but considering they sold 2.1 million cars last year, they're hardly doing that badly. In fact, they're the largest volume automaker in Western Europe. Their Megane is currently the #2 passenger car sold in Europe. They're also the #1 automaker in France, with an almost 30% market share (35% in trucks).

    Not a bad track record for a "losing" company. In other countries, they're doing very well indeed.
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Posts: 23
    With regard to truck resale values, here is my two cents:

    I bought my 1991 Isuzu pickup when I was in college for $5998 brand new plus fees, when they gave the truck a heavy discount. After that year, Isuzu stopped selling compact pickups in CA, and there were hardly any of them seen on the road these days.

    Any ways, after four years and 200,253 miles (four sets of tires, one timing belt, two sets of brake pads, regular services and don't ask me how I put so many miles on), I sold it for $1,700. The truck was running better than many domestic pickups at 50,000 miles, but with a cracked windshield and some body wear.

    My guess is truck resale values are much sustainable than passenger cars'. In the long run, Nissan trucks should hold good resale values as well.

    I miss the Isuzu pickup because it was actually bigger and more padded than the current Nissan and Toyota pickup trucks.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    I don't see Renault as being the savior of Nissan. I don't think they have what it takes.

    Apparently I'm not alone in this thinking. Unlike the DaimlerChrysler deal, in which most automotive experts feel was a slam dunk; the Nissan/Renault alliance has a lot (and I mean a LOT) of skeptics among those folks in the know.

    Bob
  • stanfordstanford Posts: 606
    I never claimed that Renault could save Nissan. I just pointed out that they're hardly a 'loser' car company. Unless being best in sales in Europe qualifies them for that exalted position.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    ApexEnv34,

    That's and interesting story, but....My son had an '89 Nissan SE he bought new (he liked my '87 and bought his own)and sold it in '96 for $1200. On the other hand, I bought a used '66 Caddy Sedan DeVille in '76 for $1000, drove it for 90,000 more miles and sold it in in '87 for $1700 (same as you got for your pickup). But so what? I don't really see how individual experiences like these can be generalized as trends.

    If you're interested in statistics on this topic, the April '99 issue of Consumer Reports on page 12 lists typical depreciation over 3 years for all of the different types of vehicles. It indicates that compact pickups are pretty close to most passenger cars when it comes to losing value as time goes by. However, large pickups retain their value better than all other vehicle types.

    That issue also has this year's reliability ratings for all vehicles. For the Frontier, it was "insufficient data", which might be interpreted to mean there were so few sold last year it's not possible to evaluate them. But the Frontier didn't do badly when all compact pickups were rated against each other. It didn't do well either; in fact, it appears to have been the only compact pickup sold in the US that isn't in the comparisons. However, there is a description of the Frontier, but it isn't too complimentary. Not too surprising, is it?
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Posts: 23
    lwf,

    I somehow think your Caddy deal has to do with the fact you are a good deal maker, but your son was not. Besides, you did not describe the condition your son's truck was in.

    But in general, trucks keep better resale values than passenger cars due to their utility function, even though the blue books are similar. For example, my Isuzu pickup in the blue book was $1,200 but I sold it for $1,700. Yet on my Mistubishi hatch back before the Isuzu, the blue book was $2,500, but I had to pretty much give it away because no one wanted it. This is evident through out newspaper ads, not just based on my own anecdote.

    Geographic regions can be a major factor though.
    I see many Frontiers on the road in Northern CA, even though I do not plan on owning one, I believe they are no less valuable than other compact pickups.
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    From a psychology/sociology point of view, I wonder what drives the people who obviously Hate the Frontier to continue to badger others in this forum? Once your opinions and facts are stated, why CONTINUALLY restate and badger the participants in this forum over and over and over? Are you trying to save us from ourselves? I am just curious, as a person who is possibly hunting for a truck, I monitor many forums to learn about the differences and pros and cons of various vehicles, I find it strange that some people insist on taking up bandwidth in forums JUST TO RAG ON THAT VEHICLE.

    I am certainly not trying to strangle ANYONES right to post or say anything thaey want, and I honestly don't mean this as a flame, I am just curious. I think at least half the posts in this forum are from people who dislike and DO NOT EVEN OWN a Frontier. I am just curious the mindset, that's all.

    It is one thing to monitor many forums(I do) and interject your view as often as you like(I do) when you see fit, I think it is another thing to just hang out in a forum to try to convince everyone that they are wrong or stupid to buy what THEY want, instead of what YOU would buy.

    Just my 4¢
  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    amen sporin,
    I also find it amazing that the folks that try to give us a financial lesson always seem to "overlook" positive financial indicators like increased sales and earnings for Nissan, I wonder why that is? case in point; Nissan is predicted to
    break even this year versus a $700 million loss last year, and that about $20 billion of the $30
    billion debt is in interest bearing instruments that Nissan has not missed a payment on. I guess
    these important items just happened to fall off of the page or something!
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    ApexEnv34,

    I agree with everything in post 411 except that I'm a good dealmaker and that all trucks generally keep better resale than all passenger cars (if that's what you meant). I referenced an article before that indicated otherwise for compact pickups. I think I was just lucky with the Caddy and the point I tried to make is that it was only a singular experience that I wouldn't generalize to all large gas guzzlers. Likewise, I suspect the favorable experience you had in selling your pickup isn't something others should expect to have, simply because once upon a time you did.

    Since you asked, my son's Nissan pickup had a lot of highway miles on it, about 160,000. It also had a Glasstite cap for which he had paid about $1000 when new. It was an attractive vehicle and a 4x2 SE King Cab with an automatic transmission. He was no longer living in my home at the time, so I don't know all of the details but he told me afterwards that was the best he could get for it. He would have liked to have gotten more, of course, but he didn't think he had gotten cheated, because he had gotten a lot of miles out of it. He felt he had gotten what it was worth.

    As far as "blue book", "black book", "Kelly Book" and other such references are concerned, I honestly don't know if those lists are accurate representations of vehicle value or not. I do remember a lunch-time conversation once when someone told an anecdote about arguing with a car salesman about a trade-in offer for the current car. "That's only half of what's shown in the Kelly Book," he told the saleman. The saleman's response was "Fine, go sell your car to the guy who wrote the Kelly Book." The moral is that the real value of your used car is only what someone actually pays you for it, not what's written in a book somewhere. You and I both found buyers who paid $1700, so that's what they were worth. It doesn't mean the next time similar vehicles were sold, the prices were the same.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    "From a psychology/sociology point of view...."

    Sporin,

    It sounds like you're into psychology and sociology, so I presume you majored in the Arts and that maybe you studied philosophy as well. I'm just one of those brutish engineers, but I read Voltaire's Candide about 45 years ago. Remember that story and one of the main characters, Dr. Pangloss, who consistently preached that "everything is for the best, and it couldn't be any better", while in reality everything was really screwed up. He just stubbornly refused to see it that way.

    It seems to me that many of the pro-Nissan arguments one reads in this forum appear to be an offshoot of the Dr. Pangloss syndrome applied to a particular manufacturer and one of its products, and the people you are complaining about are just those on the sidelines saying.....Hey, wait just a minute, that's not the way it really is....

    I think you are also implying they shouldn't be heard from.
  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    Just wanted to clear up the difference in the several books out there, the NADA and also the
    kelly blue book get their values from reported sales by dealers, and therefore reflect over allowances for trades, (taking some discount and adding it to the trade) the black book is basically an auction report, it gets it's values
    from prices realized at an auction. Actual Cash Value (ACV) this is what your car is really worth to a dealer, because if it does not sell in a 30-50 day period it will have to be liquidated at the auction and the dealer does not want to put more than that in the vehicle.

    LWF;
    since you studied philosophy, maybe you studied logic, if so, I think you know what ad nauseum and ad hominim falacies are, if not, look it up.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    This is a forum to post opinions and likes/dislikes of a certain vehicle. cncman and I had one heck of a dual over the Ford Ranger and Nissan Frontier. We stated HP/Torque/inside dimesions, outside dimensions, interior, suspensions.. everything. Did anyone win? Nope. It all came down to personal preference.
    Nissan is in trouble and will just break even this year. Once again, the "sales increases" are slight overall. And when comparing Ford, Honda, Toyota, GM are VERY small. The marriage of Renault and Nissan is not that spectacular. Renault has a bad reputation in the U.S. with its failed Alliance car of the 80's. Many are wondering if Renault may have started itself down the road to debt with this merger.
  • curt3curt3 Posts: 101
    This doom and gloom over the future of Nissan is spooking me more than a televangelist hawking Y2K videos. I have bought two new vehicles in the last year. The first was my 1998 Frontier and the second was a 1999 Kia Sephia. I must have jinxed both companies. Nonetheless, I thoroughly enjoy both in spite of all the negative publicity.
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Posts: 23
    lwf, one of your points earlier was Frontier may get worse on resale because Nissan may go down and so is Frontier. I used my experience to point out while a pickup may not be popular (Isuzu pickup is certainly scarce compared to Frontier), it still retained its resale value. In fact even your son believed he got his worth of his Nissan pickup. I am not sophisticated enough to talk psychology, just wanted to offer a different take on the relationship between resale value and annual sales data. I'd say they have little correlation on pickup trucks.
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    To quote myself...
    "I am certainly not trying to strangle ANYONES right to post or say anything they want, and I honestly don't mean this as a flame, I am just curious. I think at least half the posts in this forum are from people who dislike and DO NOT EVEN OWN a Frontier. I am just curious the mindset, that's all.

    It is one thing to monitor many forums(I do) and interject your view as often as you like(I do) when you see fit, I think it is another thing to just hang out in a forum to try to convince everyone that they are wrong or stupid to buy what THEY want, instead of what YOU would buy."


    I am definately NOT "...implying they shouldn't be heard from."

    Excellent philisophical argument, and I completely understand that you feel you NEED to be here, I was(and still am) just curious WHY people feel the need to stick around and try to convince others of thier(supposed) folly. Thanks to your very well thought out answer lwf, I now know why you feel you need to be here. Though I disagree, I appreciate your answer.


    To be fair, I would also argue that people who spend countless hours defending the Frontier to people who obviously DON'T like it, are also barking up the wrong tree.

    I would very much like to hear from more owners about their experiences with their truck, so I may be better informed in the event that I buy one myself. Though I, initially, got a lot of GOOD information from the last long debate, it became so muddled with opinion and questionable facts, that I found it confusing and misleading.

    Thanks all.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    ApexEnv34,

    I thought I had agreed with you that a seemingly not-to-popular vehicle can get sold for a good price and had pointed out it happened to me too.

    cncman,

    Thanks for the info on "book" value.

    As far as the ad nauseum fallacy, I think it might apply to your rather long-winded arguments as well as to those of anyone else anywhere in this Edmunds bulletin board. You've taken a lot of pot shots at me over the last several months, but I'm not especially angry about it. I don't understand why you keep wanting to bring it to a personal level, but if it makes you happy, so be it.

    By the way, I don't hate Nissan. I only hate what has happened to it in the last decade. In the past, I had been keeping my vehicles 9-to-11 years, but I believe I'm going to shoot for 5-to-7 in the future. Since the pickup I have now is a little over 1-year old, that means I'll be ready for another in 4-to-6 years. I had a Nissan before and I could (might) get another. But I definitely would have to see something with more and better features than what Nissan has to offer right now. I've listed the things I consider important, and your response was to ridicle me for even wanting them, much less expecting to find them. Well, I found them in some other pickup last year, so I bought it. I admit, I had to move up to full-size pickup to get the engine power I wanted (~200HP), but the extra cost seemed small to me. I might find those features in the 2003-to-2005 Nissan pickup and move back to owning a compact pickup, but because of this financial mess Nissan is in, it makes one wonder what might be there then. We'll just have to wait and see.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    There are some interesting comments on this Nissan/Renault alliance in today's AutoCom and the Detroit News.

    http://www.auto.com/

    http://www.detnews.com/1999/autos/9903/18/index.htm

    Bob
  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    well LWF, I think I would agree tat we all have been a little guilty of being long winded, (but I have been getting better) I don't think I have brought it to a personal level, but if you feel that way, I apologize, it just seems to me that for your own reasons, you did not pick the frontier, and now you are out to convince those of us who did compare and chose the frontier that we were wrong and the sky is falling, I don't think
    you have made your point but you have brought up alot of other good points, as well as Vince. I just get frustrated when people make a generalization or unfounded extrapalation and won't back it up with a logical argument, so if I
    got a little nasty with you guys again, I apologize.

    I think what alot of us are trying to say, is we know very well about the financial situation of Nissan and for us, it does not matter, we still
    got the best truck on the market for the least amount of money.
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Posts: 23
    Glad my notes aren't long. Since I currently don't own a Frontier, I must gracefully exist :)
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    cncman,

    Whatever you say doctor. Perhaps you'll be good enough to send email upstairs at Nissan telling them that you know someone who has requested that by the year 2003, at least, they have a compact pickup with an approximate 200HP/250#-ft dual-overhead-cam engine, adjustable lumbar-support in the driver's seat, analog gauges instead of idiot lights in the dashboard, and pivoting side-vent windows in the back of the King Cab? While you're at it, you may as well ask for side-body moldings to protect against parking-lot dings, even if available only as an option.

    I have a hard time believing that if Nissan had that engine today, you would be able to find anyone who would or could argue with you about the possibility of inadequate power in a Nissan pickup.
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    If what you got out of my post was "you shouldnt' say anything unless you wown a Frontier", then I am truly sorry for you misunderstanding, as that is CERTAINLY NOT what Imeant.

    Just looking for more; reviews, trouble spots, long term evaluations, dealer stories, prices paid and owner experiences.

    cncman,

    any idea yet when the crew-cab will hit the showrooms?
  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    LWF;
    believe it or not, I did include your suggestions
    afew months ago in a reply card to Nissan that they give us. Maybe they will build one just for you in 2003, who knows!

    SPorin;
    June is the big month for us, the new Xterra, crewcab frontier, maxima all will be out, I have already gotten a tremendous amount of interest
    from previous customers and folks new to nissan
    on all models, it should be a busy summer for me,
    if you stop by your local nissan dealer, they have
    a small pamphlet on the crew cab and it has a card you can mail in for more information, or if you like, you can e-mail me your mailing address and I can send one out to you. BTW have you looked at the Xterra yet, if so what do you think?
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    cncman,

    Thanks. We've had our differences, but I'll have to give you kudos for this. As I had once said, I had been looking and waiting for the new Nissan pickup for several years and was aware that the 3-liter V6 had been dropped ('96 I think) along with analog gauges (several years before, maybe). I had asked more than a few Nissan salesmen if there was any way they could get a message back to Nissan that they weren't providing features that would have to be in my next pickup. All I got were blank stares. It appeared that there was absolutely no feedback process in effect. And none of them could tell me why the six had been dropped. Total vacuum! I'm pleased to hear that at least the message has now gotten back to the manufacturer. Thanks again.
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    From topic #896 in the SUV forum. This was so clear, I HAD to post it, then I PROMISE to shut up and let everyone just chat.

    "A public forum like this is for people to offer their opinions, not to convince others they are wrong."
    --ApexEnv34

    You said it SO much better then I did, thanks.

    Peace
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Posts: 23
    Sporin,

    No, I did not misinterpret your points. I was trying to hint people should lighten up. I was guilty of dreaded endless debates in the past.

    Got to go struck a book deal now, I am sure you would give good reference :)
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    That's cool. Overall, excellent points made, looking forward to more good info on the Frontier.

    good luck with the book deal.
  • Some comments from a NISSAN truck owner:
    Bought new in mid 1991. Auto & air. Driving consists mostly of highway driving (work). Gas mileage: 19-20 mpg average. Operating costs: normal - 3,000 mile oil change, 9,000 mile air filter change, put TEXACO SIERRA anti-freeze (100,000 mile) in.

    Has been an extremely reliable truck. Never has failed to start. Currently have 105,000 miles on it. Even using the same battery that came in it when I bought the truck new 8 years ago.

    One major problem: auto trans went out at 82,000 miles. Rebuild cost $1900 (Electronic 4-speed). YEEEOUCH!!!! After I caught my breath, I had to rationalize that this is a small price to pay for eight years of superior reliability.

    Big question: Would I buy another one? No. I believe that there are other trucks that are as reliable without excessive trans costs.

    I believe that the popularity of this truck has diminished from NISSAN as a whole as not being an effective marketer of its products. If I ever get another Japanese truck (which I seriously doubt), it will start with a T.
  • lwflwf Posts: 223
    Don't get up tight, Sporin; this is only recreation for the participants. I don't think anyone is trying to or expects to proselytize those with conflicting opinions. Remember the sandlot games (any sport) we played as kids? Everyone played to win, it seemed, but the real reason for being in the game was the fun (some might say thrill) of participation. Sometimes there were other kids on the sidelines who for one reason or another wouldn't play, but they would heckle those who did with lots of advice on how to do it. The kids who were in the game might have acted like they were out to kill those on the other team, but they all had a lot more in common with each other than with the non-participants whose only contribution to the game was unasked-for advice.

    And the next day, no one could remember who won the game.

    renonevada,
    It probably doesn't matter too much, but was that a 4 or 6 cylinder? And do you think the transmission repair cost was higher than normal and if so, was that because it was a Japanese vehicle? Actually, it was made in Tennessee, but you know what I mean.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Today a Nissan Executive resigned. This shows how much control Renault will have over Nissan. Is this merger of Renault good? All I can remember about Renault is the dreaded Alliance sedan. There is another forum in News and Views about Nissan being 35 billion, give or take a few billion, in debt, along with how people feel about the merger and Nissan.
This discussion has been closed.