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Nissan Truck

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Comments

  • LohengrinLohengrin Member Posts: 84
    Now I'm falling into the "posting overly long comments and then apoligizing which only makes it longer" syndrome. And I misspelled "sighted"; should be "cited." Sorry.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Here we go again Vince;
    please form an argument for your claim that nissan cheapened the frontier, others have requested this also.

    Look at the post from before, you have done several "surveys" on comparing the frontier and ranger, all I ask is you do one, I will have my results later today, I will even fax the list to
    a friend that works elsewhere to ask his co workers. I think this is more than fair.

    What about the data comparing the 1/4 miles results from truck trend? Did you look at it?
    Do you want to say motor trend is wrong? Or do you
    have another argument?

    What about the autoweb site you quoted, what do you have to say about that? It proves you are comparing apples and oranges.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Yes everyone can go on posting one reviewer's opinion that contradicts anothers opinion, Like the review by edmunds that listed styling in the CON section of the ranger review. All this means is people have different tastes and like different things, this may be obvious, but there is no way to debate styling as it differs from one person to the next. What does not differ are things like horsepower, torque, operating costs, dimensions, etc. These aren't opinions. Again I like your style Lohengrin, I thought the comment about the kid from school was pretty funny! BTW we don't get paid for selling ourselves or family vehicles! I wish, I sold my girlfriend her 240sx, her mom and my mom pathfinders, and other members of her family too, may have made a difference, but probably not. BTW, which model frontier and ranger are you comparing? 4x2, 4x4, v-6 4cylinder, auto or stick?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Boy, this could go on forever. My wife is getting mad at me for being online so much on my fact finding missions. In my search I have found contradictory information from many sites, I am getting confused myself. This all started with you claiming the Nissan to be more powerful, right? I proved you wrong in V6 comparison HP/Torque ratings. You asked for sales figures, I gave them. I am also finding contradictory costs. So far I have found the Nissan SE V6 4x4 kingcab model in 5spd form to be about 1000-1200 more than the Ford 3.0 V6 4x4 XLT model 5spd. Fair comparison? The 4.0 usually cost anywhere from 700 to 1000 more. I dropped MotorTrend as my magazine after 7 years, I found many contradictions, along with misinformation in there magazines. I brought this to their attention with quoting articles/dates and received no response from them. I don't see how you can say with Ranger sales being 6x the Frontiers that so many people can be wrong about their choice? The Contour SE V6 5spd outperforms any flavor of Nissan Altima, no questions asked, and is less expensive. I won't go there, this is a Nissan truck room. Edmunds also DOES rate the Nissan Frontier as 4 person, not 5 look again. " also quotes as "Frumpy styling" for the Frontier. The facts are the sales aren't there cncman to justify you saying the Frontier is a "better" truck. If it were so much better, why aren't they selling?? Nissan is 30billion in debt. They could vanish, remember the Packard, Edsel, AMC, Tucker, Diahatsu? Sales figures show Nissan at almost the bottom for sales increases.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    I would point out that sales figures have NOTHING to do with the QUALITY of a vehicle. Ford is one of the largest automakers in the US, it is unreasonable to use the sales figures of a huge company to prove that the vehicles that the large company sells are BETTER then the vehicles sold by smaller manufacturers.

    The Explorer probably* outsells the M-Class Mercedes by 20 to 1, but the Explorer certainly is not a better vehicle then the M-Class!

    Also, using the argument that Nissan is "going belly-up" is ridiculous. Nissan will be bought by either Daimler/Chrysler or Ford Motor Company by September (you heard it hear first!). This is not a good argument as to why the Ranger is better then the Frontier, it has nothing to do with it! Ford has probably* 20 times the number of dealerships and probably* 20 times the manufacturing capability of Nissan, OF COURSE they are going to sell more trucks.

    I enjoyed your "fact" filled argument for the first 10 posts or so, but even you guys (vince8 + cncman) have to admit that you are both just going around in circles, it has become a "he said, he said" thing and the arguments are getting more obtuse and ludicrous as we go along. Jeez....I thought I had a lot of free time?!!?

    How about a Frontier QUESTION??"

    Has anyone heard anything about the crew-cab Frontier and when it will be available? I may consider this truck if I cannot afford a Pathfinder.

    probably* means that I am guessing at numbers, but you get the idea!
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Heck, for that matter 4 or 5 person ratings are determined solely by the number of seat belts, not by any other means. If you have something new to add, by all means do, but rehashing the same old stuff over and over again gets nowhere. Can't you just agree that you each have your personal favorites and leave it at that?
  • tc14374tc14374 Member Posts: 22
    Maybe one reason Ford outsales Nissan is because there is a Ford dealer on every corner in every town in America, not that many Nissan dealers, just a thought.
  • tc14374tc14374 Member Posts: 22
    Oh and one more thing, Nissan must not be to bad, I mean Ford sells a rebadged version of the Quest van and calls it a Mercury Villager.
  • LohengrinLohengrin Member Posts: 84
    I'm getting ext cab, 4x4, V6, auto. That's why I'm leaning towards the Ranger. Tough to beat that 5spd auto tranny. 4.0 L engine maybe needs more power, but it's got plenty of torque (which I'd rather have) The four doors are nice too. Thought about the Nissan Crew Cab, but I don't want to wait til June and I don't want to sacrifice bed space for seat space. If Nissan's engine was better, it might beat out Ranger for me, but it's not. Gets worse gas milage too. And I'm also not crazy about the high gear ratio in the tranny. I have to admit that if I was looking for a four-banger, Nissan's is better hands down.

    As far as sales figures go, I'll believe it doesn't tell the whole story. But you'd have to be pretty sincical to believe that people get duped into buying cars because of big advertising budgets and lots of dealers. BTW, GM is a lot bigger than Ford, but Ford sells more trucks than GM too. I think lots of people are pretty satisfied with their Fords or they wouldn't buy them and they wouldn't be satisfied if Ford's were junk or inherently inferior to other vehicles on the market.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    cncman - I'm done too, Good debating though, learned alot more about trucks and what is on the Horizon for Nissan and Ford. I never read though that Ford may buy a stake in Nissan??? Have to dig more into this. Who knows in 3-5 years the Frontier and Ranger could be the same darn truck. Both of the best qualities taken from each? Time to go pick on Toyota. If I had to choose between the Toyota and Nissan, I would pick the Nissan. Just because I belieive the Toyota Tacoma to be overpriced and overrated! To all who may read this. scroll back, cncman and I had some good info on both the Frontier and Ranger.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    Sporin,

    Re: post 162. As for your statement about Ford buying out Nissan, my hat's off to you. This is the first I've heard that one. But the one about Daimler/Chrysler (or is it Chrysler/Daimler?), that's pretty much old hat, and there have been recent news articles suggesting that it's all off now because of Nissan's enormous debt (about $25 billion, give or take a couple of billion). It would take a lot of vehicle sales to write off that much......maybe 5-to-10 million of them based on an estimated profit of about 2 1/2 to 5 thousand dollars per sale. How many years do you think it would take to sell the first million?

    And I don't really believe Nissan is such a small company, which I think you may have been suggesting. It's the number 2 car manufacturer in Japan. However, Nissan sells big in a lot of countries where Ford doesn't really do very much. In the US however, there's little doubt that Ford outsells Nissan by a wide, wide margin.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Man, what am I going to do with all of this time?
    I may meet you over in the toyota forum Vince.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    It really is anybody's guess, I think Ford is a strong contender here because they have around $28 billion to use for aquisitions. They are my long shot pick.

    lwf,
    I never meant to infer that Nissan was a small manufacturer, quit the opposite, that is why I am so positive they will not just wither away, SOMEONE will buy them.
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Of course, since Ford already has an equity position in Mazda, why would they want Nissan?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Guys, I think that if anyone buys Nissan, it will be daimler-chrysler, they have already stated that the need a japanese line for the third leg of their three pronged attack, none of the others
    would be a good candidate.

    Also, if anyone is planning on buying a regular cab frontier soon, better due it quick, Nissan is axeing the reg cab for awhile to make room for Xterra platforms, also if you are thinking about an Xterra, very few available at first, only about
    50,000 made this year.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    cncman - are you a dealer?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    nope just a peon salesman, but it is a small dealership and I am involved with management and the owner on a daily basis, the consensus is daimler will by the end of the month buy a part of Nissan, the only question is how much, Nissan shut down a huge plant in Japan last year, imagine if daimler could build full size trucks there and have access to the Asian market. Of course as with
    any of these deals, who knows what will go down for sure?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    That explains the never ending battle!!. At least you stick by the product you represent, don't find that too much anymore. Only time will tell of what may happen with Nissan.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    yea, no kidding Vince, and I did have a 240sx before I went to work for nissan and my dad had a 280zx when I was in HS, so I work for Nissan because I believe in the product, not the other way around. I have sold nissans to several salesmen from other dealerships, the one from chrysler said he didn't want a chrysler because of the lines he sees in the service dept getting warranty work. And a toyota salesman bought a frontier from me, said for the money he would rather have the nissan.
  • ottomanottoman Member Posts: 7
    Hello Everyone,
    I just found this site and wanted to put in my 2 cents.
    I got my Frontier in Nov. 98. It is an 1998 XE, 2wd, King Cab, Auto trans, Bedliner, floor mats. I paid $14,500 for it out the door. I have added the factory fender flares (smaller ones, not the big 4X4 flares. The cost for these was about $90 from the local dealer. I also installed a factory tach in the dash. Cost for this was $20 for the tach and about $100 for a new speedometer [non-permissible content removed]'y. The speedometer [non-permissible content removed]'y. controls the signals for all of the gages.
    I like my truck for the most part. Some areas of improvement are needed in the auto trans operation. It has a slight shudder when taking off from a standstill and the 1-2 & 2-3 shifts could be smoother.
    Gas mileage has been around 23-24 mpg for the most part which I feel is acceptable for the auto trans. Power could be stronger but it is ok for most driving. Engine RPM's on the highway are: 60 mph = 2900 RPM, 70 mph = 3200 rpm, 80 mph = 3500 RPM.
    No real problems during the first 9,000 miles other than the transmission quirks mentioned above (dealer is still working on this).
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    The Daimler talks with Nissan have broken off. Full story is here.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    That's the first time I've seen an article that suggests Nissan's debt might now be up to $37 billion. Oh well! What's another $10 billion or so? I find it hard to believe Nissan is ever going to pull out of this, but time will tell.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Ouch! 37 billion now? It will take mega sales to pull out of this one. cncman - get busy!
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    I agree Ray,
    I have always said this has nothing to do with buying a car or truck from Nissan other than you can get a great deal. If you read back a few posts, you can see the comments of actual frontier owners like myself,

    Everyone,
    here is the link to the crewcab;
    www.crewcab.com
    and xterra;
    xterra1.com

    check them out.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    Or get stuck with something you may have to give away a few years from now!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Now that DaimlerChrysler have dropped out of the bidding for Nissan, and Renault has indicated a greater interest in Nissan; there was reported this morning (AutoCom?) that Renault (which owns Mack truck) may build a full-size pickup at Nissan's U.S truck plant — and name it a "Mack', if they buy into Nissan.

    Now that would get my interest!

    Bob
  • snasirsnasir Member Posts: 2
    cncman

    I disagree with your notion that Frontiers have decent resale value. I have a Frontier XE XCab that I bought for 16k last year and I have been trying to sell it for a month now and I have had no interest in the truck. I have dropped the asking price to $11.5k. The most I am getting for it on a trade-in is 10k. Talk about resale!!!.

    SN
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    Very few cars on the road hold a great deal of value over a short period. Nearly every mass-produced car on the market loses the biggest percentage of it's value in the first 3 years. The fact that you can't sell a 1 year old vehicle(purchased new) for nearly what you paid for it has nothing to do with it being a Nissan. It is an unreasonable argument.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    Sporin is correct. No car holds its value. But SN indicates a 37 1/2 percent drop in value. I wonder if he might have even taken advantage of those great sales last year when Nissan couldn't get rid of their long-awaited-for new pickup (people like me wouln't buy them) and dropped the price 2-to-3 thousand just to get rid of them. If so and one compares his $10,000 trade-in offer with the original list price, it might be pushing a 50 percent drop in value. In a little over a year? For those of you who are thinking of paying this year's higher prices for a Frontier, maybe that's something for you to contemplate. All I'm saying is I'm not too surprised and I expect there might be many other experiences like that which are not being reported in these posts.

    Don't get angry cncman. Its not my fault Nissan is on the skids. It's happened to other great auto manufacturers in the past. Not recently, perhaps, but Packard, Hudson and Studebaker all put out very good cars, but they went belly-up in spite of that. I don't know if that's going to happen to Nissan, but it sure doesn't look good. If it does go under, I doubt if any used Nissan product will have much resale if there aren't any new Nissan products in showrooms. The companies which have been considering buying Nissan aren't talking about a merger which would retain the Nissan name. They're talking buy-out at some low figure to acquire the manufacturing and market assets for their own brand of vehicles. If you don't see any co-relation between Nissan's gargantuan debt and the possibility of them not staying in business too many more years, I'm not going to bother trying to point out why that is a distinct possibility.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    lwf
    this seems to be going nowhere again, you seem to be making an argument based on your speculation,
    and your opinions, it is hard for me to dispute your biases, fact is according to what my dealership has paid for frontiers and what publications like the black book confirm is a real world resale of about 85% of MSRP after one year.
    greater % if you actually consider prices paid for the frontiers, the two customers I had trade their frontiers got $1,000 and $1,500 less than what they actually paid for it, and that is ACV, not inflated prices, the one frontier did not last a week, the other has been there for about 8 days now, not too shabby, speaking of resale value, by your examples, every one should go buy a Nissan
    and PRAY for it to go belly up! I wish I had bought a packard before it went under, seems like pretty good resale to me! But wait a minute, the last time I looked there were no new hudson packard etc new products in the showrooms. So what is your point even if we assume the worse? Again it has nothing to do with anything here, you have
    been trying to justify for the last 8 months why you don't like the frontier, well great I am sorry you don't, but it doesn't mean you need to employ some false scare tactics just so others may reinforce your decision. The companies looking at
    Nissan are not interested in wiping out the Nissan name, they are looking at an equity position to help them manufacture their products and share technology, Please tell me where you read that someone wants to buy Nissan and wipe out the name.
    Nissan is no worse off than VW Audi and Chrysler
    were not too long ago, they are still around. also
    I just wonder how you can say everything you do and ignore the testimony of people like myself who love the truck have had practically zero problems,
    and think it is one of the best decisions they have made? Also how do you justify your statements
    about Nissan on a slide when sales have actually been going up over the last two years? Please inform us.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    cncman - I'm back. I think you are misleading people. Nissan is in trouble, it is all over the news/internet. As far as sales increasing over the last two years?? You don't say how much. You don't tell people Nissan is at the bottom of the bucket when you talk increases. You don't tell people that Nissan is anywhere from 30B to 37B in debt (depends on where you read it). Nissan will have to post some very significant sales gains in order to dig themselves out of this one. Another option is the Japanese government stepping in also. Once again if people are interested they can see the true fact of just how small the "increases" are at www.autochannel.com
    You can quote your resale values all you want, but what I read is the Frontier has some of the worst resale value around. People can find this on the internet also if they hunt and are interested.
    cncman - I respect your vigilance, and honor towards Nissan. Facts are facts though, you can't change them. Just got back from a business trip and I will find more sales facts/figures if you would like along with resale data. Noone is challenging Nissans build quality or reliablity here.
    By the way, my wifes Contour SE V6 5spd loaded with every option but the moonroof now lists for about 14750, I paid 16800 just 11 months ago!!.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    Hey SN! Maybe if you drive your Frontier down to Texas, cncman's boss will give you what you paid for it less $1000. That's 5 grand more than you said anyone else will give you for it. I'd get it in writing with a signature before I started the trip, though.

    You've got to be kidding cncman. Do you really think some corporation is going to buy Nissan, liquidate its 25-to-37 billion-dollar debt and then let the incompetent management who got Nissan into trouble in the first place make the same mistakes all over again? Any car company with that much cash must be very successful; that is, have some very popular products with very high sales...products that now compete with Nissan and win. Why in the world would it want to continue making Nissan's products with their dreary sales records? Incidentally, cncman, speaking of dreary sales records, you never addressed the comment about Nissan's factories now being below the critical point; that is, where production costs equal profit. Below the critical point, a manufacturing company loses money on every sale. That's where Nissan was according to the last article I saw on the subject. Do you have any inside information from Nissan that would indicate that Business Week is lying about this?

    Regarding Nissan resale value, someone other than me indicated a hundred or so posts ago that a lot, perhaps most, of Nissan's debt came from its disastrous leasing programs. Now let's think about that a minute. How does a company lose money on leases? Well one way is when the company that owns the leased item can't sell it for what had been its projected residual value when the lease is over. In other words, when the lease was over the vehicle had a resale value less than had been expected. No other car company seems to have had this problem of losing money on leases to the extent that Nissan has. How do you reconcile losing money on leases if the resale value of a Nissan is so high? I think its because the resale value is not, in fact, very high. I really feel sorry for SN having to take a several thousand dollar hit because no one is willing to pay much for his used Nissan, but it looks like the Nissan Corporation itself has been hit a lot harder for the same reason. But that's just speculation, isn't it cncman. Perhaps you'll be good enough to explain how Nissan lost billions and billions on leasing cars if it wasn't the way I just stated. High resale value for a recent Nissan? That's a lot of baloney, and it seems there's more than just a couple of us participating in this topic who believe so.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Looks like Renault is in talks now with Nissan for a 33.4% share. Renault? Didn't they try the U.S. market at one time and fail miserably?
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    Vince;
    I never said Nissan was not in trouble, everyone knows that from you guys going on and on and on.
    And you are right sales have increased around 4% in the last couple of years but it is positive news along with the big jumps in the quest and altimas, how can you justify these with your statements? I don't need to tell people about the
    high debt from Nissan, I am sure we have all heard it from you too many times. And where do you guys get your facts about resale value? I get Mine out of the black book which is what prices at auctions realized, this is what they actually sold for wholesale, not open to interpretation just facts
    also I know what we have been paying for trades
    at my dealership, again facts! All of this proves
    that the frontier does not suffer the poor resale value you guys harp on. YOu are right Vince, you can't change facts, if you would post some maybe we could talk about them, let me post my facts,
    the frontier has a proven high resale value,
    nissan is no worse off now than several other manufacturers were not too long ago, sales have been trending up with a 30.8% increase in altima
    sales 70.8% increase in quest sales and truck sales including pathfinder and frointier up also.
    I think you got to the heart of the matter, noone can make an argument that the frontier is a bad truck, that nissan has cheapened the quality, (like you mentioned before), so since you have no argument there, attack the company A pretty weak
    tactical move, but understandable, it seems from others posting here that they want to talk about the trucks not get an economics lesson.
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    well everyone,
    I thought I might do something different here and actually talk about the frontier instead of a financial discussion. Just hit 9,000 miles on my
    XE k-cab 5spd, and doing great, not one problem,
    haven't even needed an alignment or belt adjustments or anything. Fuel economy has been kind of low, average @22mpg, but I only live 5 minutes from work and I have kind of a heavy foot,
    so very understandable. Maybe thinking of trading for an xterra this summer, just for the room, but
    I kind of like my low payment now!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sounds like a "crisis merger" to me. Nissan - whose debt could fund a third-world country, has agreed to an alliance with Renault - a third-world car company if ever there was one.

    I wish them luck: They're going to need it!

    Bob
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    Third world? Renault? Don't judge them by the crap they imported in the 80s any more than you can judge Hundayi by theirs (did you know that they make competitors to the LS400 that sell well in Japan?). Take a look at Renault's European offerings -- I think you'll be favorably impressed. Some of their cars (like the Spider) would do very well in this country.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    So I took a look at the www.crewcab.com web site, detailing the new Crew Cab Frontier and I was very impressed! This may be the all-purpose vehicle that I have been looking for. Price may be the only sticky point.

    I would really like a Ute, but I don't think that will happen in my price range(though you never know what deals will be out there when I lease in August).

    I want to be able to tow my camper (1500#), have room for real back seat passengers occasionally, room for my dog back there, room for a baby seat if a munchkin comes along in the next 3 years. I also need to haul my own garbage to the dump now that I am buying a house, so a small pickup bed would be great. I would only rarely be carrying stuff in the open bed, so a regular pickup is not very practical, plus it would be tight or impossible to safely put a baby seat in a normal extracab. Full size trucks are WAY more then I need.

    I thought a Ute was my only option, despite being a budget stretcher, but a Crew Cab Frontier might just do the trick.

    CNCMAN, do you know when they will hit dealer showrooms? Any ideal what a 4x4 V6 would cost (real world numbers?!)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Renault is no Diamler though my friend. Diamler would have made a much better image for Nissan. Nissan is in trouble and will be for sometime. They are not totally out of the red yet even though they did find a chunck of capitol with Renault.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Renault is a car company that, for the last half century, has almost always been on shaky ground. Even today they would not be around if it were not for the French government. Yes, I know the same could be said of Chrysler. But unlike Chrysler, Renault continues to produce vehicles that are at best... pretty average. DaimlerChrysler was a marriage of two "winning" companies getting together. Nissan and Renault is more of a marriage of two "losing" companies getting together.

    This Renault/Nissan venture is not like the DaimlerChrysler venture. If you think DaimlerChrysler are going to have problems with "corporate culture clashes", you haven't seen anything until the Nissan and Renault cultures try to mesh. And, unlike Daimler and Chrysler, Nissan and Renault are nowhere as financially sound. This is a much riskier proposition for them than it is for Daimler and Chrysler.

    I agree, Renault's current crop of cars are light-years ahead of what they used to produce, but they still don't measure up up to the best of what Europe or Asia has to offer. Like Nissan, their vehicles are pretty much just middle of the road. Neither firm offers much in the way of product to get very excited about.

    Bob
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    Amen.
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    That's an interesting description of Renault. Admittedly their US product had some problems, but considering they sold 2.1 million cars last year, they're hardly doing that badly. In fact, they're the largest volume automaker in Western Europe. Their Megane is currently the #2 passenger car sold in Europe. They're also the #1 automaker in France, with an almost 30% market share (35% in trucks).

    Not a bad track record for a "losing" company. In other countries, they're doing very well indeed.
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Member Posts: 23
    With regard to truck resale values, here is my two cents:

    I bought my 1991 Isuzu pickup when I was in college for $5998 brand new plus fees, when they gave the truck a heavy discount. After that year, Isuzu stopped selling compact pickups in CA, and there were hardly any of them seen on the road these days.

    Any ways, after four years and 200,253 miles (four sets of tires, one timing belt, two sets of brake pads, regular services and don't ask me how I put so many miles on), I sold it for $1,700. The truck was running better than many domestic pickups at 50,000 miles, but with a cracked windshield and some body wear.

    My guess is truck resale values are much sustainable than passenger cars'. In the long run, Nissan trucks should hold good resale values as well.

    I miss the Isuzu pickup because it was actually bigger and more padded than the current Nissan and Toyota pickup trucks.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't see Renault as being the savior of Nissan. I don't think they have what it takes.

    Apparently I'm not alone in this thinking. Unlike the DaimlerChrysler deal, in which most automotive experts feel was a slam dunk; the Nissan/Renault alliance has a lot (and I mean a LOT) of skeptics among those folks in the know.

    Bob
  • stanfordstanford Member Posts: 606
    I never claimed that Renault could save Nissan. I just pointed out that they're hardly a 'loser' car company. Unless being best in sales in Europe qualifies them for that exalted position.
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    ApexEnv34,

    That's and interesting story, but....My son had an '89 Nissan SE he bought new (he liked my '87 and bought his own)and sold it in '96 for $1200. On the other hand, I bought a used '66 Caddy Sedan DeVille in '76 for $1000, drove it for 90,000 more miles and sold it in in '87 for $1700 (same as you got for your pickup). But so what? I don't really see how individual experiences like these can be generalized as trends.

    If you're interested in statistics on this topic, the April '99 issue of Consumer Reports on page 12 lists typical depreciation over 3 years for all of the different types of vehicles. It indicates that compact pickups are pretty close to most passenger cars when it comes to losing value as time goes by. However, large pickups retain their value better than all other vehicle types.

    That issue also has this year's reliability ratings for all vehicles. For the Frontier, it was "insufficient data", which might be interpreted to mean there were so few sold last year it's not possible to evaluate them. But the Frontier didn't do badly when all compact pickups were rated against each other. It didn't do well either; in fact, it appears to have been the only compact pickup sold in the US that isn't in the comparisons. However, there is a description of the Frontier, but it isn't too complimentary. Not too surprising, is it?
  • ApexEnv34ApexEnv34 Member Posts: 23
    lwf,

    I somehow think your Caddy deal has to do with the fact you are a good deal maker, but your son was not. Besides, you did not describe the condition your son's truck was in.

    But in general, trucks keep better resale values than passenger cars due to their utility function, even though the blue books are similar. For example, my Isuzu pickup in the blue book was $1,200 but I sold it for $1,700. Yet on my Mistubishi hatch back before the Isuzu, the blue book was $2,500, but I had to pretty much give it away because no one wanted it. This is evident through out newspaper ads, not just based on my own anecdote.

    Geographic regions can be a major factor though.
    I see many Frontiers on the road in Northern CA, even though I do not plan on owning one, I believe they are no less valuable than other compact pickups.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    From a psychology/sociology point of view, I wonder what drives the people who obviously Hate the Frontier to continue to badger others in this forum? Once your opinions and facts are stated, why CONTINUALLY restate and badger the participants in this forum over and over and over? Are you trying to save us from ourselves? I am just curious, as a person who is possibly hunting for a truck, I monitor many forums to learn about the differences and pros and cons of various vehicles, I find it strange that some people insist on taking up bandwidth in forums JUST TO RAG ON THAT VEHICLE.

    I am certainly not trying to strangle ANYONES right to post or say anything thaey want, and I honestly don't mean this as a flame, I am just curious. I think at least half the posts in this forum are from people who dislike and DO NOT EVEN OWN a Frontier. I am just curious the mindset, that's all.

    It is one thing to monitor many forums(I do) and interject your view as often as you like(I do) when you see fit, I think it is another thing to just hang out in a forum to try to convince everyone that they are wrong or stupid to buy what THEY want, instead of what YOU would buy.

    Just my 4¢
  • cncmancncman Member Posts: 487
    amen sporin,
    I also find it amazing that the folks that try to give us a financial lesson always seem to "overlook" positive financial indicators like increased sales and earnings for Nissan, I wonder why that is? case in point; Nissan is predicted to
    break even this year versus a $700 million loss last year, and that about $20 billion of the $30
    billion debt is in interest bearing instruments that Nissan has not missed a payment on. I guess
    these important items just happened to fall off of the page or something!
  • lwflwf Member Posts: 223
    ApexEnv34,

    I agree with everything in post 411 except that I'm a good dealmaker and that all trucks generally keep better resale than all passenger cars (if that's what you meant). I referenced an article before that indicated otherwise for compact pickups. I think I was just lucky with the Caddy and the point I tried to make is that it was only a singular experience that I wouldn't generalize to all large gas guzzlers. Likewise, I suspect the favorable experience you had in selling your pickup isn't something others should expect to have, simply because once upon a time you did.

    Since you asked, my son's Nissan pickup had a lot of highway miles on it, about 160,000. It also had a Glasstite cap for which he had paid about $1000 when new. It was an attractive vehicle and a 4x2 SE King Cab with an automatic transmission. He was no longer living in my home at the time, so I don't know all of the details but he told me afterwards that was the best he could get for it. He would have liked to have gotten more, of course, but he didn't think he had gotten cheated, because he had gotten a lot of miles out of it. He felt he had gotten what it was worth.

    As far as "blue book", "black book", "Kelly Book" and other such references are concerned, I honestly don't know if those lists are accurate representations of vehicle value or not. I do remember a lunch-time conversation once when someone told an anecdote about arguing with a car salesman about a trade-in offer for the current car. "That's only half of what's shown in the Kelly Book," he told the saleman. The saleman's response was "Fine, go sell your car to the guy who wrote the Kelly Book." The moral is that the real value of your used car is only what someone actually pays you for it, not what's written in a book somewhere. You and I both found buyers who paid $1700, so that's what they were worth. It doesn't mean the next time similar vehicles were sold, the prices were the same.
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