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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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Comments

  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,356
    I tend to agree. I have watched for years and Speed's coverage just keeps getting worse. Just show me the cars. Don't need "Social Garage", whatever that is etc...

    Also if I hear Craig Jackson interupt a bid again and tell me "This is the opportunity of a lifetime" or Steve Davis tell me this car is "the best of the best" I'll scream.

    The cars are nice though. The stuff earlier in the week is reasonably affordable, drivers and not trailer queens or cars so over restored there is no upside to them.

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  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I don't think any amount of nursing is going to get 29.4 out of a Suburban, unless you're drafting semi's or something!

    Yeah, the aerodynamics of an SUV is brink like compared to any car. Every SUV I've owned has been very sensitive to wind direction. A head wind easily means 14mpg on the hwy where as a good tail wind makes 20+ easy. I've driven in head winds were my Expedition won't stay in 6th gear at 70 mph. For comparison, on a calm day, I can tow our 25' 6,000lb boat in o/d in 6th at that speed. Towing at 65mph I can usually get 11-12 mpg. Not terrible considering a combined weight of over 12k lbs.

    Wind is definitely a powerful force. I have a 12' flat bed utility trailer with a 4' grated ramp that doesn't fold, so it just sticks straight up off the back of the trailer. The trailer can't weigh 800lbs empty, yet I can only get 12 mph towing it empty or loaded. The amount of air the ramp grabs is unbelievable. At 65 mph, the truck is laboring nearly as much as towing the boat, despite the towed load being an 1/8th has heavy.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, problem is, now what do you do with it?

    Use it in any way and the value will drop by half in no time.

    It's not really museum worthy, either. So now what? :confuse:
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Despite the recent 'arctic blast' weather, I spotted a red El Camino in traffic yesterday morning which looked like a '67 from behind. In '66, my mom had a Chevelle Malibu station wagon with the tail lights stacked on top of the backup lights, just like the '66 El Camino. By '67 the backup lights were mounted in the rear bumper.

    Funny details you may remember about mom or dad's old ride! I recall that my mom really liked the wagon but had 2 accidents within 5 years. She was never satisfied with the dealership body work and could spot flaws that I really couldn't. My dad then took the car to an independent shop for a complete repaint and that really upset her. She spotted something different about the trim after the work was finished and that was the last straw. Dad sold the wagon after that and took mom new car shopping. Life is too short to bicker over matching paint and body trim. I remember that within a month after selling the wagon to a friend, my dad said that the new owner had totaled the car in a freeway accident. Nobody hurt though-except the car. :sick:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Use it in any way and the value will drop by half in no time.

    I agree. Just taking delivery of that car for that price might cost the new owner 50% depreciation if he tries to sell it the next day! :shades:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited January 2013
    "Funny details you may remember about mom or dad's old ride!"

    Funny things. To this day I can tell a 92 from a 93 from a 94 Taurus, or an 84 from an 85 (86 is easy) Tempo, or different years of Ciera etc. And reading books partly at the behest of my dad is how I learned the details of older cars.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...light blue 1979 Chevrolet Malibu Classic coupe with light blue vinyl roof and Ralleye wheels on the NW corner of Bingham and Martins Mill Road in NE Philly.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Well, it does have about 35,000 miles on it, so it's not like some of these freaks we occasionally find with only a few hundred miles on them.

    I could see it falling into the hands of someone who, for whatever reason, really wanted a nice, low mileage example, and intends to keep it forever. So he might drive it on nice, sunny days, take it to a car show here and there, and might put 1000-2000 miles per year on it.

    It also has a rebuilt engine, so it loses some points there for being all pristine-original.

    I have a friend who bought a '78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee a few years back. 2005, I think? I forget how many miles it had on it, but it was pretty low, between 10-20,000. And it looked like a brand new car. He drives is pretty regularly to car shows, although the furthest he probably goes is Carlisle, Hershey, or Rehoboth Beach. By now he might have put 10,000 miles on it, which would put it at 20-30K miles. He didn't buy it to preserve it, necessarily. He just wanted to buy as "new" of a 1978 Mark V as he could find, and then enjoy it. He has no intention of getting rid of it, so he's not looking to flip it to make a quick buck, and probably isn't all that concerned about it appreciating in value.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What's "amazing" is that a pristine, low mileage 35 year old car could be worth so little as $8500. You can hardly buy a ratty '65 Mustang for that anymore. Think of the effort and expense to store, insure, and preserve a car for 35 years (to say nothing of buying it in the first place)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited January 2013
    What in its class when new would have brought that much? I guess we'll never know, but somehow I doubt a Pinto or Gremlin (not V8) would bring that. I've seen Cosworths on eBay that didn't bring that much--but not at 35K miles.

    My best man bought a Cosworth with 13K miles that had been within 15 miles of his hometown its whole life, and in fact had been sold new at our hometown dealer (I rode in it when I was 17 years old). Very clean in and out, and ran well. He paid somewhere just slightly north of $4K--although that was about 15 years ago, at a Chevy dealer.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Sometimes I'll see yahoos at Carlisle trying to sell a Gremlin for $4995 or $5995 or so. But, of course, they don't sell, and pop back up at another show sometime later. And these aren't pristine, showroom-new looking things. Usually they have a little rust on them, and look like used cars. In good shape for a ~40 year old used car, for sure. But, nothing that's going to Pebble Beach anytime soon. More like, IMO, some neat, oddball beater that you might be willing to pay $1000 for, at best, and drive around and have fun with.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah it's the low miles that's the point. Someone guarded that car and purposely kept the miles low but the condition pristine. So my point was that the tremendous effort brought meager rewards.

    Oh a Gremlin X w/ 304 V8 could easily top $8500 if it was a really nice one. As high as $11.5K. A 6 cyl Gremlin could probably hit $9.5K if pristine.

    But not a Pinto

    A Cogsworth Vega maximum potential would be about $14K.

    Actually, given the condition of that '76 Vega, I would say it actually underperformed for its class and type at $8500.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    What would that Vega have sold for new, back in 1976? I just ran the numbers on an inflation calculator, and $8600 today equates to about $2131 back then.

    But, in 1976 I doubt if you could even get a stripper Vega, let alone a GT, for that little. Although it doesn't have a/c, only has an AM radio. I can't tell from the pics whether it has power steering or brakes. So, other than the GT package, I guess it IS a stripper.

    The only real price reference points I have for that timeframe is 1975, when my Mom bought a new LeMans coupe, and my grandparents bought a new Dart Swinger, and both were about $5,000.

    I guess very few classic cars ever get back up to their original MSRP, when you adjust for inflation.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Now calculate insurance and garage and maintenance costs for 35 years :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I saw a story on the internet not too long ago, where a thief stole a brand-new Corvette back in the 1980's. I forget the exact year, but it was a C4. Anyway, he actually got away with it, but it got to the point that he could no longer afford to keep it in storage, so he turned himself in!

    I don't know if he ever tried to insure/register it or not.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Here's the story:

    l23 Years in Storage
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Cool. They only paid double what it was worth, on a car that continues to depreciate---that's smart investing!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited January 2013
    Andre, that Vega has the Custom Interior package and the side stripes--both actually optional on even a Vega GT.

    Totally off the cuff, my guess is that that Vega was probably right around $4K on the sticker. Cosworths were $6K and up (sticker). I was looking at new Vegas at that time and that's a fairly educated guess (not to sound 'vain'!).

    The 5-speed trans was also optional, as was AM radio, as you noted, plus whatever the destination charge was back then. Can't remember if it has power steering or not, which would have been optional. Swing-out quarter windows were optional. I'll have to look back at the ad to see what all the car has.

    I never look for Gremlins or Pintos on eBay, honestly, but whenever a clean Vega non-Cosworth like this one comes up (rarely, trust me), there always seems to be a good bit of bidding interest on it...unlike Cosworths and general Vega mongrels which are always on eBay.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Now here's an optimist's version of a car advertisement I just saw: (misspelled words were left in place)

    "FOR SALE 1967 VOLVO 122 4 DOOR, GREAT SHAPE, A LITTLE RUST BUT ALL THE CROME AND DECALS ALL ON CAR. HAS A RAG TOP VERY RARE ,THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. IT WILL START RIGHT UP BUT NEEDS NEW BATTERY AND NEW ENGINE SEALS IT LEAKS OIL BAD, I WAS GOING TO FIX IT BUT HAVE NO TIME . YT FATHER STARTED WORKING ON IT BUT NEVER FINSHED THE JOB SO THE TRANNY IS OUT BUT I HAVE IT AND ALL THE OTHER PARTS HE REMOVED. ITS A BEAUTIFUL CAR JUST NEEDS TLC . IF YOUR INTERESTED CONTACT ME AT XXXXXX"
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    if this is his idea of "great shape" I would hate to see "needs work".

    and is he implying that a 120 series has a fabric top?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    Just looked on ebay, including completed sales (although I'm not sure how far that goes back)--only two Gremlins that have sold showed up...one for $2,850 with 122K miles that looks nice in the pics, and the other, a V8 (not 'X') with 27,500 miles with a dent and scrape on the one side, that sold for $5,010.00 last week.

    I couldn't even find any Cosworth Vegas that sold under 'completed sales'.
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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    here's one that sold on eBay for $12K---- a Gremlin X with 12,000 orig miles!

    http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2012/10/29/121007490104/1- 21007490104.pdf
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited January 2013
    Only 12.8K miles...they don't come any newer than that.
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  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    I grew up near the AMC plant in Kenosha, My uncles worked there and my Dad for a while, he had a Gremlin and I owned two when I was a teenager. Cheap cars to own, easy to work on and the boneyards around here were loaded with cheap parts. I have no desire to own, drive or ride in one ever again.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    A 122/Amazon could be fitted with a full length webasto style sunroof.

    Funny ad, reminds me of the Ghostbusters car scene.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Rare survivor may be increasing the value.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,252
    I commuted with a couple of other guys for a while.
    One of them had a beater Gremlin.
    The passenger side window was always open a bit due to the piece of rope tied around the frame to hold the door closed.
    I can't remember what we attached it to inside the car.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh yeah, Gremlins drive like something you built in your backyard.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Saw 2 old style S-10 Blazers this evening - my dad had one of those, it was falling apart when he got rid of it 20 years ago, must be a labor of love to keep one going now. Also a W126 in the same color as my old car, diamond blue - couldn't see if it was actually the same car.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Oh yeah, Gremlins drive like something you built in your backyard.

    ...and look like a high back tennis shoe - no offense Converse! Come to think about it, maybe it started a styling trend. Later on the Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz kind of looked like a tennis shoe that someone had stepped on.
  • merckxmerckx Member Posts: 565
    I saw a mid 80s Marcos at a local...i thought they were just from the early seventies. The owner said it was prepared for the NY auto show with a V8 engine-Wern't most of them sixes?
    not a very attractive car, but it was fun to see. I'd never seen one in the flesh before....
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    The espenses you list are sunk costs, so those expenses really don't matter to today's buyer. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone would pay as much as $8,500 for a Vega, even a Cosworth, unless it was for the purpose of flipping it with a high probability of making a profit. It's not worth that as an econobox, an there wouldn't be $8,500 worth of pleasure - for me, at least - to display it at car shows. It might be worth that in 35 more years, when it'd be an extremely rare novelty that no car show visitor recalled.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That Volvo ad reminds me of this ad for a lost dog:

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2013
    Even then you never know. I know a guy who has the last surviving specimen of a 1920s car---and it's worth no more than a 1920s Buick. Why? Because nobody cares--well, nobody with money cares. A museum cares, but it has no money, so it cannot affect the price. Passion doesn't drive up prices---a checkbook does.

    Sunk costs are, true enough, water over the dam, but with cars you can also have prospective costs.

    Say you own a Ferrari F40. It's fun, it's great--you're out tracking it and you miss a shift----oops, you just spent $75,000 for an engine.

    Unless you own a very VERY blue chip and rare car that everyone lusts after, your "investment" of $8500 can evaporate in the snap of the fingers.

    That's the weird thing about classic cars---North Korea invades South Korea and your Camaro is suddenly worth half. Very bizarre.

    I guess "toys" are very vulnerable to economic conditions.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,252
    Never expected to see one of those, especially as a current driver in the winter.
    Other than a missing left front wheel cover and being covered with salt, looked to be in pretty good shape.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    Haven't seen a X-body in years. Saw a Ford Maverick yesterday, looked like it was ready to be retired.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    I came close to considering an '85 Citation X-11 before I ordered my Celebrity Eurosport, but I figured I'd take a hit on resale value (back when I traded every three years or so). Same car mechanically, even same wheelbase as my Celebrity was. Tom Jumper Chevy in Sandy Springs, GA had several to choose from, when other dealers had none. His lot of new Chevys was so big they drove you around it in a golf cart.
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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Saw one a few weeks back. It was traveling the opposite direction and didn't look rusted through. It was the golden brown color that was popular for those. I have no idea what year it was other than a 4-door with sloped back.

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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Years back there was a huge Long Chevrolet in Elmhurst, west of Chicago. You'd spot it coming into O'Hare sometimes. One night, GMAC must have hired every tow truck within 20 miles and cleaned out the lot.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I saw a yellow Citation 4 door a year or so ago, it looked mint. Funniest thing is that it had "Collector" plates. How times moves by.
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    Years ago I got to ride in a very special Chevy Citation. The car was a GM test mule, and, the performance it had was simply awesome. After the ride, the test engineer popped the hood for me. I was looking at a turbocharged Buick 3.8 V6. Turns out the car had the prototype drivetrain destined for the Buick Grand National.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited January 2013
    Out in the rain this morning: 87-88 Ciera driven by a 75 year old woman with her 100 year old mother as passenger, early 90s Ciera with back-up damage driven by a man who was probably that woman's father, and a driver quality 59 Cadillac flat top, white with a coral roof.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,252
    Front drive turbo v6? I hope you wore your seat belt. :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Once they got the initial kinks out, I thought the Citation was a nicer car than competitive K cars or Tempo and Topaz. More comfortable ride.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    This evening at the gas station I saw a rather pristine 80's Mark VII LSC. It was a white coupe , yet it still looked rather classy to me.
  • oldbearcatoldbearcat Member Posts: 197
    Sure did. The driver punched that beast in our plant parking lot, and, about threw me in the back seat. My son once owned a Citation X-11, and, it didn't have anywhere near the get up and go the test mule did.

    Regards:
    Oldbearcat
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    This evening at the gas station I saw a rather pristine 80's Mark VII LSC. It was a white coupe , yet it still looked rather classy to me.

    That's probably the last Lincoln I've liked. I always thought those were pretty cool in their day. A bit of class and attitude.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Once they got the initial kinks out, I thought the Citation was a nicer car than competitive K cars or Tempo and Topaz. More comfortable ride.

    I agree. They definitely felt roomier inside. I think the K-cars were a bit wider inside (but had paper-thin doors), but the X-bodies had better legroom, while still being wide enough.

    Now, I always thought the Citation looked pretty cheap inside, at least in base form...much more plasticky than a Reliant or Aries. But, the Phoenix, Omega, and Skylark versions, when equipped the right way, could be downright luxurious inside.

    I developed a new-found respect for the K-car though, when I drove my cousin's Dodge 600 one day. Okay, technically, it was an E-car, but it was still the K with a 3 inch stretch in wheelbase. It seemed roomy and comfy enough, and a good alternative to the Chevy Celebrity, Ford LTD, or even the Taurus. However, I didn't like the fact that they were depending on turbo 4's for added power, instead of a good old fashioned V-6. But, my cousin's 600 was a turbo, and decently quick for the time.

    The Tempo and Topaz never seemed like much more than cheap, basic transportation to me.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I think explorerx4 may have been referring to torque steer even more than acceleration. It must have been wild in a FWD car with that much torque, at a time when they hadn't yet mastered the art of controlling FWD torque steer.

    The Buick GN wasn't afflicted with torque steer, of course, since it was RWD.
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