I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

It's the old story---one or two auction sales don't make a "market".

Once a certain car I'm tracking, or a certain specific year/type/option list car sells 5 or 6 times for the same or more money, then I take notice of a market change.

If you're thinking of riding Mr Romney coat tails to fame and fortune in a car auction, best think again about that.

Mr Egbert is sort of remembered as father of the Avanti, and of course he inherited a corpse of a corporation to work with---and for those few brief years, he gave it a good shot. But the company was doomed since 1946, and Mr. Egbert was doomed as well, being quite ill and dying young. Something of a hero figure in the minor pantheon of automotive gods I'd say.

Romney (senior) was respected for what he did, but mr. personality he wasn't. My dad liked him. I still have a letter from Mr. Romney to my dad somewhere.

Do you think I could sell it on eBay for a million dollars? :P

fintail · February 2013

Was that the really base cars? The higher line cars look pretty decent to me - but I know the strippers were pretty stripped. It was a value brand.

uplanderguy · February 2013

Egbert was a big guy, and I've seen a pic of him being booked at the South Bend police station in Jan. '62 for punching an assembly line worker on strike who wouldn't allow him to drive into the plant in the back of a Mercedes Benz! Hard to imagine these days.

EDIT: Just found this pic on eBay:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1962-Sherwood-Egbert-booked-Disorderly-conduct-charges-Pr- ess-Photo-/160861124293

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

The Ambassador line had some amenities, like brocade upholstery, a beefy V-8, and I suspect more sound-deadening material, but the dash and exterior looked much the same as a Rambler. It was upscale but not luxurious by any means.

Rambler customers were more like Studebaker customers---thrift-conscious people. They weren't about to spend money on extravagances as might a Buick or Olds owner.

If Rambler had stuck with an improved American series, and Studebaker ditched everything but the Lark series, who knows--they might have survived longer, and would have hit the 1971-73 "sweet spot" for economy cars.

Think of how far Chrysler took the Dart, and Chevy the Nova and Ford the Falcon.

Problem is, there was little money in building small, de-contented cars.

boomchek · February 2013

I like the low spec manual red wagon.

Yeah the wagon is cool, it's so Euro with the hubcaps, cloth interior, and 5 speed manual. I'm tempted to go look at it but I think I might actually go check out the white 190E.

fintail · February 2013

Price is right anyway, and good the gasket has been changed - both 4 and 6 cyl 190s seem to have that issue. Wheels are off a W210, if it matters.

Here's a cool 190E, optimistic price

And another

Euro model

boomchek · February 2013

I noticed the newer wheels too. I just like the updated body touches on the last few years of the 190E models, makes them look a bit more modern than the first ones from early 80s.

The 2nd Cosworth 190E I saw that too because the guy is advertising on CL here in Vancouver BC as well.

I think they're all a bit optimistically priced. Hate the headlights on the 2nd one although it would be an easy replacement. Not sure about that balck electrical tape on the driver's seat though. :sick:

hoosiergrandad · February 2013

Does a Hurst Rambler or an AMX have some value on the market? I remember driving both back in '69........fast cars! Two college friends owned them.

fintail · February 2013

The updated side cladding and later headlights do make them look more modern. Those pre-86 headlights that you don't like are painful.

2.3-16s are tough to move. The W201 has a cheapy rep to it now, and few want to pay a premium price for one. The dogleg shift pattern and I suspect a few rare expensive parts don't help, either.

Most people don't seem to know an upholstery shop can probably fix a stitching issue for relatively little money.

stickguy · February 2013

since we went through the Vega phase.

driving around today, a later year pinto wagon that badly needed a paint job.

ateixeira · February 2013

Get flame retardant paint.

boomchek · February 2013

I'm so tempted to see it as it's only $1500 but my wife is against me buying anything until we sell the MDX and Echo, and secondly she's against me buying any older Benz because the W203 we owned had issues, and when looking at few older Benzes last year, especially the W124's all of them seemed to have tranny issues. I looked at one W124, drove it straight out of the guy's back yard for a test drive and had to push it back with him as reverse didn't work. It was a 94 or 95 model too lol.

uplanderguy · February 2013

Concerning the AMX and SC/Rambler, I believe those are probably the two most valuable AMC products of all (bring the highest prices). I could enjoy a first-series AMX, and I believe a SC/Rambler brought very serious money (I'm thinking around $50K) at the recent Scottsdale, AZ auction last month.

EDIT: There were two SC/Ramblers at the recent Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale. One brought a tad under $50K, and one bought $60K!!!!!

I find the graphics and plastic add-ons tacky, but it was a performance engine in an economy car body, and lots of folks seem to like that combination.

hpmctorque · February 2013

I could see that Rambler being worth more if Mitt had won the election, but who remembers the presidential candidate that lost, a few years after the election?

fintail · February 2013

I agree with her, about clearing out your excess inventory anyway. Get rid of the others before you find something else - eventually, someone is going to raise a stink about you taking up a city block with your cars :P

A lot of old MBs go unmaintained, shame about that late car. It probably won't be easy to flip an old MB either, unless you rescue something nice out of an estate or something.

fintail · February 2013

Imagine what a Palin family car would be worth :shades:

uplanderguy · February 2013

I think it's a combination of Mitt's Dad's car and the fact that his Dad was president of AMC...and it's an AMC car of that period. I think you'll find that it will bring more on eBay than other clean, low-mileage, bottom-level Ramblers of that time period. And I'm not a Rambler fan.

martinmaxx · February 2013

Nice Post

ab348 · February 2013

Thinking back to being a car-crazed kid in the '60s, I have several impressions of Ramblers.

First, a local one. Our local Rambler dealer was not well-regarded. They were a smaller operation than those of the big 3, in an older, smallish building in a not-so-nice part of town, without a whole lot of space for inventory. Their reputation wasn't great. That had to hurt sales. Later on in the early '70s the dealership changed to a different operator in a different part of town and things improved greatly.

The '60s Ramblers had a mixture of good and bad design details. I like the body design of this '64 Classic quite a bit. It looks modern for the times, and I remember they won an award of some sort for their integrated bodysiide stamping. They used a lot of polished aluminum trim that looked good.

But look at that interior. The ledge stamped into the metal dash looks designed to inflict injury. The speedometer graphics they used always bugged me. I never understood why the speedo went "1 2 3 4.." instead of "10 20 30 40...". It just looked odd. And "Weather Eye" may have been something when it was introduced, but it was old hat by the '60s. In our part of the world, they may have sold some upscale models, but every one I remember seeing until the Javelin came out in '68 was a stripper, kind of crude, and slow. I mean, a lot still came with vacuum wipers, something from the 1950s and before!

Still, I like this car because when was the last time you saw a '64 Rambler Classic coach?

jljac · February 2013

My impessions of Ramblers changed over time. I thought that the product line was generally inferrior to Studebaker's until the 1960's. In 1963 the entire AMC line was the Motor Trend Car of the Year.

Prior to the 1960s, AMC had nothing like the Hawks, they were late to get a V-8, they built no trucks, the American was based on the 1950 Nash Rambler that was later brought back to life after being out of production two years. They were never considered to be a styling leader.

On the positive side, the Rambler American was the US low price leader, it rivaled Studebaker for ecomony, they had a good OHV 6 cylinder motor, usually had better rustproofing and they started in cold weather. They excelled in station wagons and when I hear the word "Rambler" I think of a station wagon.

uplanderguy · February 2013

I outright mocked Ramblers in the '60's and '70's as a kid!

A good friend of mine, whose Dad had a good executive job, had a '64 Rambler American station wagon as a family car until '73! I teased him mercilessly about that! Although, his Dad always said it was a good car. That's something I've heard a few times from people who had owned '60's Ramblers.

Even then, I thought Studebaker, for an independent, seemed to make a little 'cooler' cars than Rambler..mostly because of the Hawk and Avanti although I always liked the Lark Daytona hardtops when I'd see them.

I always was totally turned off, too, by the "1,2,3,4...." speedometer...although Studebakers from '63-66 only had "0, 20, 40, 60", etc. so I guess I shouldn't laugh too loud!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

The 190E was probably the worst car Benz ever made, IMO, and I mean going back to 1886. :P

uplanderguy · February 2013

Are you including the little SUV made in Alabama in the late '90's?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

Yep, Ramblers were considered as cars driven by the Walking Dead when we were kids. Studebakers did have some "cool" with the Hawks, especially those with 4-speed floor shifts and bucket seats. Larks were not "manly" to us, or "macho" I mean, but they were not the object of derision. Avantis were the same then as they are now--some people liked 'em, some hated them and thought them ugly. They were definitely not as cool as Corvettes, which were about as cool as you could get in the 1960s.

I grew up in a very urban, car-centric, drag-race kind of world, so the country boys probably had a different automotive universe to dwell in.

Basically the more a car could terrorize the local population, the better we liked it. :P

AMX -- yes, the earlier AMXs do have collector car value, most definitely!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

I meant the early 190E sedan when it first came out as the "baby Benz". It had all the panache of a Toyota, but without the hassle of reliability.

uplanderguy · February 2013

I do think the '63 and '64 Rambler Classic were pretty handsome cars in that size/price class, externally anyway.

I always thought late '50's and early '60's Ramblers (up through '62) often looked like Eastern bloc products, like this one (MHO only, of course):

http://carpictures.cc/cars/photo/car_picture/15590/1962_rambler_classic_parked

hpmctorque · February 2013

Excellent concept (the idea of a "baby Benz" as it was sometimes called), nice exterior and interior, poor execution.

texases · February 2013

As a rough measure of interest, there are 7 cars that come up when I searched for 'Rambler' on EBay, while there are 40 Studebakers. Anyone know what the relative number made was?

And regarding the odd speedometer markings: maybe that old AMC inspiration was the reason my '86 Jeep Cherokee (the small one) had the same numbering scheme on the speedometer and tach: 10, 20, 30, etc. Only tach I've seen numbered in 100 rpm units. :confuse:

lemko · February 2013

Don't forget the 1970 Rebel Machine!

lemko · February 2013

....red shell of a 1967 Mustang fastback with gray primer spots on the back of a rollback truck going east on Cottman Avenue near Oxford Avenue in NE Philly.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

Just about any domestic car with a decent size V8 and a four-speed gearbox is going to have collector car value.

3-soeed column shifters are like the Kiss of Death--probably the least favorite of all the optional types of transmission you could put in a car.

Even 4speed column shifters are preferred to 3 speed ones....I guess it's that clunky 1-2 shift that annoys everyone.

lemko · February 2013

Do you remember the song "Sausalito Summer Night" from 1981?

"We left for Frisco in your Rambler. The radiator runnin' dry...."

lemko · February 2013

There's a large repair shop across from my workplace with cool art deco architecture that started out as a Studebaker dealer then became an AMC dealer when Studebaker went out of business in 1966. I believe it remained an AMC dealer until that company's demise in 1987. You can still see the stylized Rambler "R" on the door handles and tile mosaic floor.

lemko · February 2013

My Dad had a 1968 Javelin and my Uncle Daniel had a 1968 Rebel SST hardtop at the same time! Both were that same nice shade of medium blue AMC had at the time. My Dad's car looked exactly like this one:

uplanderguy · February 2013

Nice car, no doubt.

lemko · February 2013

Heck, I thought the Javelin looked more advanced and modern than any of the Big Three ponycars. Loved those cool door handles.

fintail · February 2013

And now we've got the stylized CLA to take over that role. Wonder how it will fare.

busiris · February 2013

Did your dad's 68 Javelin also come with a girl like the one in the picture?

LOL!!!

hpmctorque · February 2013

I don't know of any domestic car with 4-speed column shifters, do you? Quite a few European sedans and wagons had them, though.

hpmctorque · February 2013

I was hoping to see the CLA at the Washington Auto Show, but was told that the one that they hoped to have was going to be displayed in Chicago. From what little I know about it my gut tells me that it'll be successful.

I suspect that the CLA will have seating for two in the back. While that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me there are times when seating for five is useful for us. I've read that the next generation C-Class will be larger than the current one, so that one will probably seat five in reasonable comfort for relatively short distances. If the next C-class is indeed larger it'll be about the size of the '80sW124. I loved that model.

busiris · February 2013

I don't know of any domestic car with 4-speed column shifters, do you? Quite a few European sedans and wagons had them, though.

Didn't the Nash Metropolitan have a 4-speed on the column?

hpmctorque · February 2013

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Met had a 3-speed.

uplanderguy · February 2013

From the mid-'50's on, there were a LOT more Ramblers/AMC's made than Studebakers. I believe the name "AMC" didn't really originate as a brand name change, 'til '66 or so, incidentally.

At the time of South Bend's closing (12/20/63), Studebaker was America's Number 5 auto manufacturer.

busiris · February 2013

After looking it up, I think you're correct. The column shift was a 3-speed.

Just another sign my memory isn't what it used to be...

boomchek · February 2013

For the first time in 25 or so years I'm gonna miss the Vancouver auto show

as I'll be away on the other side of the globe. I've been attending every year since 1988, some years when I was a teenager going 3-5 times per show. :surprise:

I see the Auto Show in your area already happened, in November?

fintail · February 2013

If they have a lot of stripped models at that magical <30K price point, they will sell. It's also not bad looking. I can see the C growing up - price seems to be steadily growing, E is getting bigger, C can bloat a little.

The W212 E can be kind of W124-like, especially in simple trim. There's a functional feel about it absent in the W211.

fintail · February 2013

I haven't gone since 2010 - been tough to get free for a few days, as I like to hang out in Van when I go.

Seattle Auto Show was in November, I was in Germany then...no regrets. My past experience has had the Seattle show outranked by Vancouver - but I remember the 2010 Vancouver show was scaled way back.

lemko · February 2013

No, Mom was even prettier! :P

bhill2 · February 2013

Yep, Ramblers were considered as cars driven by the Walking Dead when we were kids.

Reading these posts brings back a memory for me. At the point that I got my driver's license my Dad had a '64 Rambler Classic, and the quote above did indeed represent the opinion among my friends and classmates. However, my Dad had the good taste to get a V-8 in it. In addition, it came with a 3-speed slush box, as opposed the 2-speed Powerglide that came on Chevys. That allowed me get the hole shot on them in the all-important stoplight "comparison of engines". When I did that to one of my peers driving their parent's Impala they of course had no choice but to go home and die of shame. Good times.

ateixeira · February 2013

Saw a completely immaculate one at Cabin John Shopping Center, driven gingerly by a little old lady.

Total time capsule, I flashed back to the 80s when I used to go to there in high school.

Rare find!

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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