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I live in the Richmond area but made the drive to Fredericksburg, However, they offer vehicle delivery. I just checked USAA and they are now offering a slightly lower rate - $27,068 on an EX w/ 4WD.
Good luck
Touring NAV & RES $34,602
Aftermarket remote $359
Doc fee $180
Tax (6%) $2,108.46
Title $15
Plate $8
Out the door $37,272.46
They were not able to locate a silver Touring with Navi only. Being forced to get RES also.
The remote start is the one the dealer recommends and uses as their standard model, it is from Ultra Start (ultrastarters.com) and is the Ultra 1270. They wanted $810 for the Honda remote started, installed.
What is a reasonable figure to accept as a documentation fee?
I more than willing to pay what is normal and reasonable, I just don't want to get hosed. Within a couple of hundred of the lowest final price is fine with me, I just don't know what that figure is right now.
I'm not sure what the rules of this forum are in terms of directing people to certain dealers - but $800 for the honda remote is insane - bernadi honda a dealer in massachusetts will ship you the system for $250 and an extra remote for another $107. granted a honda dealer has to do the install - but $550 labor on a $250 remote start system isn't fair. I would say $100 - $150 max would cover the labor bringing the cost to $350/$400 tops - maybe others had it installed and can quote an exact price. They have the instructions on that site too - an extra remote appears very easy and shouldn't have much if any markup.
That all said - read the reviews for the honda remote - some don't like its safety features - so that may be a factor for you.
To negotiate the best price on the car, find more than one dealer that has your car in stock and let each of them know your are a serious and educated buyer and looking for the best overall deal.
Oh well. Might just have to settle on $34K for a 4WD Touring (no RES) since supplies are dwindling out here and time is starting to run short.
2009 Honda Odyssey EX
MSRP-$30,125
Invoice-$27,525
Price they are offering-$24,961
Tax (6%)-$1497.22
Plate Fees-$201
=$26,659
(Possible trade in 2000 Dodge Caravan) $2,475
Total with Trade in for the Fair Condition/ Price for the Excellent Condition=$24,234/23,984
Total with No Trade in =$26,659
2009 Honda Pilot EX 4wd.
MSRP-$32,765
Invoice-$30,285
Price they are offering-$28,347
Tax (6%)- $1702.44
Plate Fees-$201
=$30,250.44
(Possible Trade in 2000 Dodge Caravan)- about $2,475
'Total Trade in for Fair Condition/ Price for Excellent Condition- $27,825/27,575
Total with no trade in-$30,250
So my questions are
1) Do you think these are good deals, or can we do better? If they are, we are hoping to buy one of these next week.
2)Which do you think is the better deal and why?
3)Do you think that $ 2,625 is a fair price for a 2000 Dodge Caravan with about 78,000 miles in Excellent condition, or a $2,475 is a fair price for Fair condition? These are from Kelly Blue Book, not from the dealership, so they could be better. Do you think these prices are fair, or should we try to sell ourselves?
4) What do you think the 2000 Dodge Caravan is worth?
Thanks.
-Haha, today is my birthday too
1- Do no include your trade in until you get the bottom price of the vehicle
2- Select the model and the options you must have before you show up to the showroom.
3- Price a few dealerships around your area before you go to the dealership.
4- Once you got a price you might like then research around this board you in fact are getting a good deal.
I am so cal so I can provide you with info in my area.
Luis
In PA you can buy it for $27.1k or less. I paid less than that for mine.
With respect to which is a good deal - don't know much about the Odyssey but there are a lot of them sitting on dealer lots.
If you aren't in a hurry wait until the '10s come out. The '09 Pilots came out on May 22 of last year. The dealers say that the '10s won't be out until November but the dealers are liars. They are in the business of selling vehicles at overinflated prices based on how much they can extract from unwitting buyers. Aren't you outraged that a single mother who holds two jobs and has no experience in negotiation is forced to pay $2000 more than an affluent businessman who knows how to research and negotiate (for the same vehicle)? Of course it's outrageous, but this is their business - ripping off the less informed or financially capable. Now their business model doesn't work anymore (see GM and Chrysler's shutting down of thousands of dealerships). The stupid (young) Honda salesmen think that this means that somehow they are going to get more business. What they don't understand is that the consumer, in general, has too many cars, too much debt, and that the car business is going to just continue to weaken across the board. A model that requires ripping people off eventually must die - that's what we are seeing right now.
Would not surprise me if the Pilot '10s were out in July. It's worth the wait, since there will be a huge glut of Pilots out there, especially EX-Ls.
Good luck.
Thanks
reminder - those that are quoting invoice prices - there is a $1500 factory to dealer incentive going on through june 30th so subtract that from the invoice. Do your quotes include the $670 destination charge? I certainly wouldn't pay anything above invoice less $1500 + destination. I have a feeling dealers will be happy to sell the car and keep the holdback 2% + whatever monthly incentives they receive. I don't think in this market dealers can support these inflated documentation fees - know the DMV fees before you go you negotiate the price.
Also agree to keep the trade in seperate - used car values are difficult to pinpoint - check kbb.com, ebay.com, other classified ads for your car and try to guage the market rate - you won't get that but something near that is fair for both.
The '09 EXLs will drop some more. When you say Honda won't provide any more dealer incentive, how exactly do you think these '09 EXLs are going to move out the door? By magic? The $1500 incentive isn't getting them anywhere on the EXLs. There is huge inventory on those.
30,000 msrp
27,000 invoice
1,500 incentive
600 holdback
What price in this example is a good deal?
The Ody is lower and longer. That makes the minivan more convenient (load/unload everything) and more space for passenger / cargo.
They both have 3.5L engine and the MPG isn't a big difference. I got the 4x4 Pilot so the AWD system will have 1 MPG less than the FWD. However the AWD is great for New England harsh winter.
The steering in the Pilot feels heavier (that make the driver feels this is heavier car) in low speed than the Odyssey, but quieter than the Ody in driving, softer over bumps/holes, better handling due Pilot is about 1 foot shorter than Ody.
I maintain that it is outrageous that car salesmen target single women and minorities for inflating their pricing. What is your justification for charging a single, woman with kids $2000 more than a well-heeled businessman? The funny thing is, you actually believe that this is the right way to do business. It's not.
Essentially car salesmen are the lowest form of salesperson on earth. Today, no self-respecting salesperson would ever get involved in selling cars. Besides the fact that there is no money in the business, only the lowest of low integrity people (i.e. they have no integrity) get into this business.
Then the fun begins! Had fun negotiating my '08 CR-V EX last November. I'm starting to like it since it will be a buyers market for a long time to come. Change the way you look at it and it is really fun particularly when you walk away and you get reams of e-mails with counter offers! Did this with the 5 H dealers in my area.
Regards,
OW
We were very disappointed when we found the treatment that we received at O’Hare Honda so incongruent with the values espoused by Honda brand. O’Hare Honda misrepresented the price at which they could offer us the car that we wished to purchase and, once we indicated that we would share such behavior with consumer watchdog organizations such as the Better Business Bureau and the online consumer forums available at Edmunds.com, general sales manager accused us of threatening him. This was not meant as a threat; the dealership was dishonest in their dealings with us and this behavior is a threat to the Honda brand and a menace to innocent consumers.
When we requested the quotation from the Internet Sales Manager, we specified that we wished to purchase a brand new 2009 4WD Honda Pilot EXL with black cherry exterior and black leather interior (no navigation, no RES). We further specified that we wanted an “out-the-door” price for the vehicle when we requested the quote. O’Hare Honda provided us with a quotation of $32,539.38 in email and asked us when we could come in to view the vehicle. The internet representative also stated that O’Hare could beat the $32,500 price offered by another local Honda dealership and that we should just come in.
When we came in to view the vehicle, the general sales manager told us that he was not able to offer us the price that the internet representative quoted us and that he could offer us a price around $34,000. In response to this, we forwarded the general sales manager the attached email correspondence to substantiate our claim that we were quote a significantly lower price. The general sales manager first attempted to tell us that this quote was not accurate because the price that we were offered was based on a 2WD automobile; this was in spite of the fact that the quote that we requested explicitly referenced a 4WD vehicle. He also told us that the price that O’Hare had to beat must have been based upon an “illegitimate quote,” thus attempting to maneuver to avoid the fact that we received a written quote from an O’Hare representative for the exact automobile we wished to purchase [three] days before and there was only one car on the lot matching this description (so there was no room for O’Hare to state that they based the quote upon a different automobile).
Eventually, the general sales manager stated that he would offer us the quoted $32,539.38 price out-the-door but he then tacked on approximately $700 for an extra car body protection package (surely to ensure that he would “recoup” any lost profit to which he felt he was entitled). First, if there was only one car matching the description of our desired automobile on the O’Hare lot, the quotation provided to us should have included any additional costs such as the car body protection package. Second, if the online representative was quoting us a price based upon the cars available on the O’Hare lot (which is clearly what one would expect him to do) and he did not include the cost of such additional package in his bottom line when quoting a price for the only car matching our purchase criteria on the lot, then the cost of this error should be borne by the dealership and not by an innocent consumer that relied on the internet manager to accurately quote the purchase price for a particular vehicle.
30,000 msrp
27,000 invoice
1,500 incentive
600 holdback
If this example is in today's market then I would say 25,000 is a good starting place. I wouldn't pay a dime over 25,500. $600 holdback is plenty in today's market. But considering that we are coming up to the next years model I would wait for the incentives to change... especially if this were an EX-L. In that case I would imagine I could get the car in a couple months (when they raise the incentive) for $24,000.
I believe this is a fair price for the consumer and the dealer considering the current market situations. Especially with gas going up in the future.
I was not able to find a Silver AWD Touring without RES so I was forced into this one extra option, RES. The other vehicle I was looking at was the Acadia, which I really liked, especially with the head-up display. Unfortunately the way GMC dealers configure their cars, I would have had to purchase $3,000 worth of tires, RES and trailer hitches I didn't want in order to get the vehicle with navigation and head-up.
So far I love my Pilot. I switched from a 2005 MDX which was a very fine car.
The price I was given by the "internet manager" was $34,602 plus $180 doc plus 6% sales tax and $23 title and plates. I was able to get an aftermarket remote start included as well as the cargo area floor mat. They did screw me on the trade-in but I expected that, funny what we think of as natural.
Overall, Darryl was great to deal with and had integrity. I drove extra miles to give him and them my business and would do the same again.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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If Honda has its production in gear and has managed the production of pilots/elements properly there will not be a huge need to dump stock and offer 10k off. (6000 off invoice). The imports are very flexible in their manufacturing, much more than the domestics. With a few more of 09 Pilots out there than they would like, and reduced '10s coming out, The scenery shouldn't change much. Ya never know, but don't hold your breath.
The Ridgeline has been about a $7000 off msrp vehicle since its intro in the May-July clearance timeframe. If the've got production down enough you may not even get this this year.
The average individual may have about $20,000 in depreciation, finance charges, gas, insurance etc into a vehicle like this the 1st 36 months of ownership, so killing yourself for months to get 500 in mats,oil changes isn't very fruitful. Shopping agressively for financing rates and insurance can easily save one $1000-3000 over 3-4 years.
Then of course there is the $3500 clunker trade in voucher they are mulling with in congress. What the terms of it will be when or if it materializes is not clear yet.
Cars.com can give one a fairly good idea sometimes of how many new models are sitting on dealer lots 100 or so miles from your home.
Good luck
--jjf
2WD, Dark Cherry Pearl
Was thinking somewhere around $6500 off MSRP, but am new to all
this incentive, holdback, invoice stuff. Is this too low or too high?
Thanks in advance!
I think you might have been confused with my last post. I was not talking about any specific vehicle... That responce what just an example of how to buy any car. I believe you should be able to buy a car at the dealer invoice price minus any dealer incentive. That's what I based my estimate on. The dealer gets to keep the 2% holdback... I think that is fair.
what does this mean? "so killing yourself for months to get 500 in mats,oil changes isn't very fruitful."
For the specific model 2009 Pilot EX-L, I believe that when the 2010s come out there will be a $3000 or similar incentive on it. So I'm waiting a couple months for $1500 off of what I can get the car today for... whatever that price may be. There are hundreds of EX-L's within 50 miles of where I live. And that is just sitting on the lots right now. There is no way they are going to sell all of those cars in 3 months! I can wait for much longer than that so a good deal is inevitable in my case. :shades:
Also, what about the $400 doc fee in NC? This seems outrageous! But seems dealers won't budge. Sales tax is 3%, so this is not bad.
Any of your thoughts would be extremely helpful! Any recommendations of dealerships? This price is for Honda of Concord. I am willing to go just about anywher in NC/VA if the price is right.
My opinion on a good price for a Touring is invoice, including destination, minus $1,500 (the current incentive to dealer) minus 2% of MSRP (to cover the holdback). The dealer will then add title, sales tax and documentation fee to the deal. The title and tax aren't up for discussion. The documentation fee in Michigan is the maximum fee allowed by law the dealer can charge for paperwork. This is and should be negotiated. In Michigan they are limited to $180 as the max doc fee. Find out from the dealer what their legal max is and negotiate that down. They will make money on the doc fee as well as their monthly sales incentives as well as other rebates. I believe this is fair and the dealer will make a good profit from this.
As an example, the dealer told me their cost for the cargo mat was $101 and as a favor they would pass that price on to me. I see a Honda branded mat, so the same mat, offered to anyone on the web at $67. Now they may very well be charged $101 but they also will then get a rebate of their sales, I'm thinking that's 50% or so.
It is so hard to determine what their exact cost is. I believe the above prices are fair.
Not all states regulate the documentation fee - I would cut that out and let them have the holdback.
I then contacted the internet manager and asked for pricing. I did tell him I was checking with several dealers. His offer to me was 34,602 plus 180 doc fee plus TTL. I did visit the dealer, drove the car and let him know I was serious and ready to buy.
From there I was able to get the remote starter installed at no charge and the cargo mat thrown in. The remote starter was installed by a local installer and listed for $199.
I was very happy with the price I received. After coming to these terms I drove my trade-in vehicle for appraisal. This is where they made their money, or at least thought they were. The car was a 2001 Hyundai that was a disaster. There was no way I was going to sell this to a local and let them try to drive it home. With every bump it pulled all over the road. They looked at the car but did not drive it. The offer was $200, which I accepted. Within 30 minutes I was out the door and driving home. I did have to get the starter installed today which was a 5 hour wait. All in all I am very happy with my experience at Brighton Honda in Michigan.
I do think you can get a Touring AWD NAV RES at invoice minus 1,500 minus 2% of msrp. I also had an offer that was $30 less from another local dealer at the last minute. Two other dealers were $1,000 over this price, almost to the penny.
If we were to get one for this price, OTD price would be 34,850. (~1000 tax, 400 doc, 74 reg) Should we offer lower?
The dealer wanted $359 for this starter and $810 for the Honda. When I went to get it installed at the aftermarket shop I saw it advertised for $199.
I think your general stereotype of a salesman is incorrect. In any business you have your shady people and this one is no exception. My experience is that most are honest and make a decent living doing what they like.
It will probably never happen, but unless it becomes a one price, no negotiating transaction there will forever be that battle between salesperson and customer.
I simply believe that buying a car at MSRP or anywhere under that is a good deal regardless of race, gender, profession and anything else you stated as "targets".
I do not blame car salesman one bit for trying to make as much as they can off of a sale. The salesman and consumer have the same object in mind. One to make it one to save it. If as a consumer you do not try to save as much as you can on such a large purchase then that is your fault. I respect you and your profession as i know it is not an easy one.