Chrysler Crossfire

kusheen · November 2003

If your friend got the 5 speed auto, it has some type of memory that monitors how it's driven, and alters some acceleration characteristics to 'match' the driving style of it's owner.

I have a 6 speed manual, but there was a lengthy discussion of this on the main Crossfire Forum, and 3 guys there are also Chrysler technicians, and they explained it better.

The experience you had with the car may have as much/more to do with how your friend has driven it as with the optimal performance of the car.

Just a thought. Another crazy thing like the wing, I guess.

bigmike5 · November 2003

Went by my local 5* dealer on Saturday. The red X-fire I test drove in early July is now in the showroom and they have a SSB automatic out front. I knew they were expecting their 2nd Crossfire in Nov. so that must be it. Don't know if they took off the $3K additional market value rip-off on the red one. It has got to have 400-500 test drive miles on it by now. Anyway, I asked if they had any pricing data yet on the new Crossfire SRT-6 coupe that is coming in the spring. Got a blank look from the salesman, and then a "I guess not." Beautiful marketing system.

jglackin · November 2003

this is one of our big problems...DC does a great job getting rumors/realities out about upcoming vehicles, but doesn't put anything in the showrooms for us to talk about or show our customers. Being very conscientious, I comb mags and the net for info for my customers and actually have folks get angry with me for sharing "non-Chrysler" stuff with them. We can't win. Generally, we get real prices and real specs about three months before the product arrives...sometimes after we've begun ordering!

kusheen · November 2003

Looks like we have a Chrysler dealer employee here, so he can best describe what info is available about the new car.

My guess is that the car is actually still in development, so even pix of it would be of a pre production prototype. There are no actual pix of the convertible floating around yet, the most popular one that's shown has been admitted to being a PhotoShop job.

This is not unusual...Lotus has been taking orders on the US spec Elise for over a year, but just announced last month what engine it will have.

So far, the only US spect car that's been available for testing is the one R & T reviewed last month, but it was so rough they used it for the performance tests, but used a europ spec Elise for the pix, explaining that there will be some nominal body changes in the US car.

They haven't even set a price yet, although it's been suggested that it will be under $40K. Of course, they said it would be 1800 lbs, but current specs have it getting close to 2000.

My guess is that we won't have anything concrete on the Xfire SRT6 until late first quarter of next year.

mlm4 · November 2003

Granted, that old Camaro was a straight-line performer. Quarter-mile against the Crossfire would be close enough for me. I guess I just miss the old 305 with the 4-bbl and T-tops. It's subjective, not objective. Lots of wheel-spinin' fun.

The Crossfire I drove had only 200 miles on it, probably not enough for the computer to learn much about the driver's habits. Especially with me confusing it. My Bonnie does the same thing, adjusting the shift pattern to the driver's habits (or so they say, I can't tell). I'm anxious to try this Crossfire again when it gets broken in a bit, next time with the Autostick rather than letting the computer do all the "thinking." It is a "sweet" car (oh wait, isn't that a Dodge slogan?).

kusheen · November 2003

The tire spinning on your Camaro with the minimal tire spinning on the Xfire likely has much to do, as you suggest, with the tires.

The Michelin Pilot Sports are extremely sticky, and with 255's at the rear moderately wide. The Xfire CAN chirp those tires a bit, but it doesn't have the grunt to smoke them. Instead it just launches you in a hurry.

They're nice tires, kinda feel like some nice shaved Yokohama AVS.

The Crossfire is not an all out performance car. It is a nicely balanced car that does most things well...speed, handling, luxury...it's a GT.

It's a fun car to drive and live with, that about says it all.

sphinx99 · November 2003

I finally saw a Crossfire this evening - black with what looked like white rims. Huge, white rims. It was very stylish. Nice looking car. That look should give it decent residual value.

jpvwaudi · November 2003

will never have a high residual value. Why should it?

We've had 3 Xfires; we have 3 Xfires. In 3.5 months maybe 6 test drives.

I'm 6'3. I can't drive the car. My knees hit the dashboard.

You can't see out of the back window and only Stuart Little can fit his weekend baggage in the boot.

Finally, if I wanted a 1997 SLK I would buy one.

ITS A CHRYSLER. Don't be surprised if they have a 3000 rebate next month.

sphinx99 · November 2003

I meant long-term residual value, like ten years down the road. This strikes me a really, really sweet ten year old car, ten years from now.

kusheen · November 2003

I take it you work at a dealership. The dealerships in my area are lacking for people coming in to look...they've had PLENTY. Talking to guys on the main Crossfire board, the dealers represented there also have had lots of interest. Your dealership having 6 test drives in 3.5 months is probably atypical.

Where a lot of dealers initially shot themselves in the foot, and a few (yours?) still are, is with tacking on a high ADP, $3K to $10K were/are common. AND they treated the car like a Ferrari when it came to letting someone test drive. I've heard stories from buyers who actually had to put a deposit and complete the initial purchase paperwork before the dealer would even start the engine.

The car is nice, but not that nice...

Indeed, at 6' 3" I can see how you would be uncomfortable in the car. But, again there are guys on the main board your height who post that they are very comfortable in the car. It's all a matter of personal preference. I'm 5'8", and I'd probably pass on it if I were your height, but again, there are tall guys who love it.

Trunk space? 7.6 cubic feet compares favorably to many other sports cars/coupes, weekend luggage space is more than ample, unless you're trying to throw in a golf bag as well.

I find rearward visibility complaints way overstated. I've easily adjusted seating and mirrors to all but get rid of blind spots...no worse than I have in my Pathfinder, and much, much better than I've experienced in the 4 Lotuses I've owned (all of which had less headroom, trunk space, and the peddles were arranged so that anyone with feed over size 9 would have difficulties).

Sports cars/coupes, by their very nature, give up a lot to both have performance features and 'sporty' style. Goes with the territory.

Cheap shot about the SLK, while most of the running gear is from the SLK, with a lighter weigth the Xfire is noticeably quicker, and the suspension is not a direct bolt over. It includes some mods and some CLK bits, and with the added stiffness of a coupe, it is FAR superior to the SLK in every handling measurement. But as a dealer, you know all that.

The car's not perfect, but it's a ball, and each time I drive it I appreciate it more.

Sports cars (all cars?) are a matter of taste, to be sure. One man's Ferrari is another's Yugo.

graphicguy · November 2003

Personally, I like the looks of the Xfire. Sat in one. I'm 6' and 180 lbs and didn't have any problems fitting into it (particularly when compared to likely competition like the Audi TT).

Although, I've never driven one, I'd sure like to take one for a spin.

My perception is it's an SLK in all but name only (with a sunroof instead of a folding roof). That's not a bad thing. The real question is will anyone recognize as Chrysler as the equal to a Benz?

bigmike5 · November 2003

I might be wrong but I don't think you can get one with a sunroof yet.

jglackin · November 2003

no sunroof

jasoncoke · November 2003

I am considering a 39-month Crossfire lease and am concerned about having to replace the $1000 worth of rubber on this car before I have to turn it in. Does anyone have any clue as to how long these tires can be expected to last? None of these types of tires seems to come with a tread life warranty and I can't find expected mileage life numbers (information) anywhere. (I realize that it depends on how you drive, but assume normal, "legal" driving.)

Any suggestions on tire life, or stories on similar tires, would be very appreciated.

kusheen · November 2003

Nothing but bad news here, I'm afraid.

First, the cheapest I've found the tires, at Tire Rack, will put you closer to $1200 plus shipping.

Second, don't know anybody yet with 10K or more on their Crossfire, but the discussion on the main Xfire board, and reviews of the tires in a variety of sources, say you can expect around 10K or maybe a bit more out of the tires.

They are an extremely soft compound, and the tread depth isn't that deep to begin with.

You can't rotate the tires in the conventional way, ie crossing front/back. Different size wheels.

So all you can do is side to side 'rotation.' Some folks say not to do that, but Daimler Chrysler and Michelin recommend doing it to extend tread life. I intend to do the rotation about every 2K miles.

One tire dealer said about these types of tires is that you may indeed have usable tread left at 10K to 12K, but the performance and adhesion characteristics will have degraded by that point. If you're just doing normal driving, that might not be a problem. It could be a problem if you take it to a track, OR if you really like to hit the exit ramps hard.

No tread life warranty because these are performance tires, usually are going to be abused and played with hard, so the manufacturers won't provide that type of warranty.

Could be worse, you could have a 350Z. They start feathering their front tires the first mile you drive them.

jasoncoke · November 2003

That is really good information to know - it sounds like I will have to budget a couple of sets of tires into my lease budget. Thanks!

Mr_Shiftright · November 2003

If you don't subscribe to the Edmunds Newsletter, here's some further info on the next models of the Crossfire (sounds like good news!)

"Crossfire Gets Supercharging

Chrysler's new Crossfire coupe will get some second-season excitement in the form of a new SRT-6 model. Chrysler has introduced most of its 2004 new vehicles and some 2005 cars and trucks to the press in anticipation of next year's auto shows, and the SRT-6 is among the new vehicles expected for launch next calendar year. According to sources, the Crossfire SRT-6 will pump out 330 horsepower thanks to supercharging of the stock 3.2-liter V6, and will go from zero to 60 mph in just over 5 seconds. A two-seat Roadster edition is expected shortly thereafter, possibly offering the 330-hp engine as well. No pricing has been announced."

blacktalon · November 2003

The more I think about it, the more tempting this becomes. That's basically an SLK32 AMG with bigger tires (and potentially better handling) for hopefully under $40K. Of course, you don't get the retractable hardtop, and it'll be more tempting if (unlike the SLK32) they offer a manual transmission on the SRT-6.

bigmike5 · December 2003

I'd be real surprised if it comes in under $40K with the supercharged engine.

ruski · December 2003

Aren't there less expensive tires out there that perform just as well as the Michelin Pilot Sports?

kevin111 · December 2003

"Aren't there less expensive tires out there that perform just as well as the Michelin Pilot Sports? "

- I have heard people getting +20K miles on them, but not usually. One of the reasons the Crossfire does so well on the skidpad is because of the sticky and soft compound of the Pilots.

The Michelin Pilot Sport A&S has a MUCH higher wear rating (+30K miles) and have traction close to it.

tires with virtually same handling characteristics that are cheaper:

Bridgestone S03 Polepositions (may not be much cheaper)
BFGoodrich KDWs
Pirelli PZero Nero
Goodyear Eagle F1-D3
Continental ContactSport 2

And even less:

Yokohama EVS100
Kumo
Etc.

bigmike5 · December 2003

Just looked at the Tire Rack site, and the wear rating on the Michelins is 220. That is really pretty low, but I guess it's because they are so sticky on the dry road surface. I always try to find something with a 400 rating but that is not always possible depending on the wheel width, e.g., on 17" x 7" rims there is not much product available, so you sometimes have to take what's available.

kevin111 · December 2003

The Pilot Sport A&S have a 400 rating and have virtually the same sized tires as the regular Pilot Sport. BTW, it also depends on the car. Have been able to get over 30K miles from a 180 wear rated tire set.

bigmike5 · December 2003

Kevin111--Right you are. I did not check the A/S just the regular ones. 400 is a pretty good rating for high performance tires like that. Depending on inflation,handling charateristicsof the car and driving styles, they should last a while. I had Michelin MXRV-4s [I think it was] on my wife's 96 Aurora and despite really excellent care and rotation, they were dead at 38K miles and the noise level in the cabin rose as the tread disappeared. I figured they would have gone 45-50K with careful treatment, but no way. I traded the car rather than put new tires on it along with an extended warranty as it came up on the end of the 4 year warranty period. I have BF Goodrich Comp TA's on my M now and they show no wear at all at 20K miles, so it is hard to predict I guess.

bigmike5 · December 2003

One of my car rags, can't remember which one [I get 4] came yesterday and has a runoff between the Audi TT and the Crossfire. I didn't have time to read it yet, but I did see they gave the nod to the TT. I glanced at just a couple of categories like slalom and braking and the TT got rated better by the clowns doing the review, even though the Crossfire did better on the track in both categories. I am gonna read it closer tonight, but once again it looks like the rags seem to bend over for the Audi/BMW/VW boys. Could it be advertising dollars spent with the rags??

kevin111 · December 2003

If it is the TT with 240 hp engine (v6?) and the new auto-manual tranny, I can see them leaning towards the TT. Has a 0-60 time about a 1 sec. faster than the Crossfire. Only problem is that I think that car costs $40K+.

bigmike5 · December 2003

OK, it was R & T, and the TT was 225 hp 4 cylinder with turbo boost. In the standardized, objective ratings --braking, slolom, etc, the Crossfire won easily. But the subjective ratings by their staff members is where the Crossfire ended up on the short end. For example, altho the Crossfire hammered the TT on braking, it lost in the subjective ratings on that point. Same with stuff like "fun to drive" --give me a break, the TT got 20 and the Crossfire got 15? That is how it came up second. They essentially gloss over the big cost difference, the TT was at $40K. The only true shortcomings I saw were on the mpg, cabin room [their 6'2" tester said he had trouble], and storage space, but hey, the TT is a 4 banger with mini-back seats. I should think that after 5 years of delivery feedback the TT should have been better. The cabin did look a little better laid-out. My daughter has an 03 A4 and it does have a nice interior layout. IMHO, just another bogus comparison piece with a pre-determined outcome. I figure a true comparison of the SRT-6 model and the TT would have been kicked big time.

kevin111 · December 2003

Car and Driver has constantly bashed its handling as "Boatish" and it reminds them of a German Thunderbird (current iteration, which they also blast as feeling like it floats.

They did not say the same thing with regards to the SRT-4, so who is right?

therose400 · December 2003

It's getting quite tiresome reading these postings that are laden with negative comments regarding the Crossfire's horsepower, "off-the-line" acceleration, etc. Obviously, the only species that would not buy a car based on a 0-60 testing that came in ONE-TENTH of a second slower than other vehicles, are the males who are overly concerned with "performance". The Crossfire is a "hybrid" roadster with Mercedes parts that is not common in "muscle" cars. Albeit it is not a "true" Mercedes; however, IMO, those that will buy this car are accustomed to "high-end" purchases (ie. Mercedes, Volvo, BMW, etc.); they are not looking for speed but for quality. It's like comparing a Mercedes SLK230 to a Vette. The Crossfire is what it is -- a merger of Daimler/Chrysler - nothing more, nothing less.

logic1 · December 2003

Too many, imo, people posting at Edmunds think all cars should aggresively aim for a very small performance segment.

The Crossfire is unique and does many things well. Other people have other needs. We should all be thankful there is a variety of options, whatever our desire.

kevin111 · December 2003

The Crossfire is projected to be a Halo car for Chrysler.

I would agree that the Crossfire is fine vehicle, and quite good looking. The issue that many people have with it is for a Halo car, the power and price combination seems to be very odd for trying to use this car as promotion for the "New-Upscale" Chrysler.

With the Mercedes, whether you like it or not, it does have the brand cache and the dealership experience that makes people want to pay a premium.

Chrysler is not at this level yet.

ruski · December 2003

but there is nothing wrong with wanting as much horsepower as possible.

logic1 · December 2003

but there is nothing wrong with prefering other qualities as well.

sphinx99 · December 2003

And there's nothing wrong with wanting both. "Upscale" usually means having your cake and eating it too.

dools · December 2003

I test drove an automatic Crossfire a couple of weeks ago, so I thought I'd share my opinions. I have always been a big fan of the exterior styling, but I found the interior to be a bit lacking (my usual complaint for all American cars). The center console's plastic felt on the cheap side for what is supposed to be a luxury car, and forget about seeing the radio display if there is any sun. While I'm on the radio, the salesman had no idea how to operate it, so it probably has lots of cool features but I have no idea what they may be. Also would have like to have seen steering wheel controls like the RX-8 has. I'm not tall, so I fit in the car fine but had some trouble finding a comfy seat position. The trunk looked fine to me for a two-seater, and I think the luggage deal is a nice touch. Visibility was worse on the road than I had anticipated after sitting in the car in the showroom, but I guess that could improve if I had fiddled with the mirrors more. I thought the acceleration was fine, though I drive a 2.3 Z3 so 215 is more than I'm used to. I also liked the handling--not as nimble as the RX-8 or S2000 but it felt really stuck to the road.

I decided not to buy it b/c of the sniffs I had about a beefier engine and a roadster coming out, but for styling and fun alone I don't think anyone can go wrong--I'm just way too picky about interiors and intrigued by the new models to dive in now. I have yet to see one on the road in San Diego, so those of you who did take the plunge are part of an exclusive group, which certainly ups the cool-factor in my book.

Also, I cut to the chase with the dealer and told him I found one on Carmax for just over 32K. I didn't go the distance in the deal, but they pretty much told me they would match the offer. They've been calling me ever since so they must want to start moving these cars.
Anyway, hope this info helps.

dools · December 2003

Funny sidenote: The salesman told me that the automatic did not have a tiptronic option (or whatever they call it), so I didn't get to try that out--can't they give these guys a test or something before they send them out on the floor? Would have liked to drive the manual to see if the throw of the shifter is as long and unruly as I have heard, but did not have a chance.

kusheen · December 2003

That was a nice, balanced summary of your test drive. Some thoughts, I've owned my black six speed for about 5 months (little over 2K on the clock).

If you're not tall, as you said, a little fiddling with the mirrors, as you said AND the 8 way adjustable seat should easily get you a comfortable driving position, and eliminate most, if not all of your blind spot concerns. There are some blind spots, but they just require a little more attention when changing lanes. Some folks want no such compromise, and that's ok...but I have yet to see ANY highly stylized or sporting car that does not have such flaws. I guy I know who owns both a Lambo Diablo and a Countach HATES driving either/both...the blind spots on those cars are huge and apparently cannot be mitigated with the mirrors or driving position.

Re the nimbleness vs the S2000 or RX8. I agree that it doesn't FEEL nimble, but the numbers say otherwise. When you look at the R & T tests (October and this month against the Audi TT), with R & T the main mag that does slalom, the Xfire posts faster slaloms than the RX8, Audi, 350Z, etc., sometimes significantly faster. The slalom requires a certain nimbleness.

A guy in Va. Beach is autocrossing his, and apparently he holds his own against Boxsters, BMWs, 350Z's et al. That said, he is a driver with some experience and background. Your results may vary.

When you read the Audi/Xfire comparo in R & T, the Chrysler obliterates the Audi in almost all objective performance categories: lateral grip, slalom (annihalates it), braking, 0-80, 0-100 accelaration. It's a dead heat in 0-60, and the .1 nod to the Audi in the quarter is within a driver standard deviation.

R & T gives the overall nod to the Audi, though, strictly on subjective feel. They readily admit the Xfire kicks the Audi's rear in terms of measured performance, but they say the Audi FEELS like it performs better, even though it does not.

The gearbox is it's biggest performance drawback. The throw of the box isn't the problem, it's ok. The problem is that the shifter feels like you're trying to move a hammer around in a bowl of rocks. I would guarantee that the impresise shifter, in all these 0-60 magazine tests that clock the 6 speed in the 6.4 to 6.7 range, can attribute .2 seconds to that shifter.

Radio...cars being shipped now have the improved display...no longer a problem on new cars. Supposedly, a TSB is coming out, and current owners will be offered a free retrofit of the improved radio. Still the Infiniti, but with better display.

Finally, price. A dealer here in Baltimore, the last two Sundays, advertises in the color section new 6 speeds for $29,995. THAT's a BARGAIN.

I like the car, will live with it for another year when I sell it to make room for the Lotus Elise I have on order.

ruski · December 2003

hey it is easy to tell that the car has autostick just by looking at the auto shifter

The dealer is dumb.

Re: dash - it is pretty much the same as MB SLK's dash.

therose400 · December 2003

Has anyone gotten a good 39-month, 12K Sign & Drive deal on a Crossfire in South Florida?

I'm looking and the only 'deal' is $399 + tax. Also, should I lease this year, or wait until next year hoping prices will drop because they are not selling?

bigmike5 · December 2003

This place,like the 300M board, has really slowed up. Must be the season. Hope all have a great holiday season and come back for a great new year.

customcar · December 2003

I live South Florida and was looking for a new car for my wife. We tried the Crossfire, 350Z and Mercedes C230 Sports Coupe.

In the end we bought the 6 speed Crossfire, people say it's slow. A 0-100mph in 16.1 seconds is good enough for me.

We got a 39 month lease for $315pm on 12K a year.

hudrahead · December 2003

customcar:That's a better deal than what Chryco is offering ($399 mo, 39 months with $2800 down)so what was the capital cost from your dealer and did you plow any money into the deal?

Carmax in Orlando is selling six speeds for a tad over 28K. that would translate into a good lease deal IF they'd do it.

Congrats on your new ride ! Keep us tire kickers informed about how it stacks up to your Benz.

Regards HUD

:)

Kirstie_H · December 2003

A reporter is hoping to interview someone who is planning to buy a new vehicle in the next three months. If you are interested, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by January 1, 2003 with your name and daytime contact information.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

ruski · December 2003

something is now right about that

Did you mean 1/4 mile in 16 seconds?

hey 12K miles per year in South Florida is not that much.

hudrahead · December 2003

Full page ad in the Orlando paper this morning from Chryco. Beating the drums on the latest cash back on most of their cars. "up to $3500 cash back" plus additional $500 bonus money too. The Xfire was listed as one of the cars. No specific amounts on which vehicles but "see your dealer for details". Surely they are not gonna put a big rebate on the Xfire already. Or are they. At the same time on the next page they are still offering $399 per month, 39 months with $1999 down on a lease from Cryco. All this does not bode well for resale value. I bet by this time next year you'll be able to pick up a used one for under $20K. They are going thru auction for about 25K right now.

HUD

:)

kevin111 · December 2003

Very good looking car. After seeing them in real life, look much more impressive than at the autoshow (usually it is the reverse!). At $30K, it then becomes much more reasonable for the performance you get along with the looks. $35K just seemed too high.

- One other thing about performance - reason for the slow numbers could be the wheels. They are huge, and have to weigh a considerable amount. This significantly hurts acceleration numbers, which is why it is slower than the SLK320.

therose400 · December 2003

To Customcar:

How much did you put down? Which dealer did you get this lease at in Florida?

kusheen · December 2003

re the SLK being faster than the Xfire. Where did you read that? All the reviews of the Xfire have it 0 to 60 in the 6.4 to 6.7 range, depending on the article. Dug up some reviews of 2002 SLK 320 and they all have it in exactly the same range, with more around 6.6.

Overall, the Xfire is a tad lighter, about 30 lbs than the SLK. Granted, if the wheels of the Xfire are heavier that does make it work harder, they being unsprung weight.

kevin111 · December 2003

Consumer Reports timed it at 7.2 secs from 0 - 60.

In the same issue, timed the RX8 at 6.7secs (about the same as Edmunds)

And the 350Z at 5.4 secs.

For some reason, I thought CR timed the SLK320 under 7 seconds.

kusheen · December 2003

I saw the 7.2 from consumer report...that's the first I've seen that had the Crossfire above 6.7 0-60. I haven't read Edmunds, but I've read Car and Driver, Automobile, Road and Track, Motor Trend and others that I go to for the bottom line on performance before I would check Consumer Reports. The enthusiast magazines have pretty much had the Crossfire consistently in the 6.4 to 6.7 range.

CR is good a certain type of testing, not performance testing.

Chrysler Crossfire

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