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Share your vehicle reviews
Thanks in advance for your answers.
YMMV,
MidCow
Wouldn't that be embarrassing!
-juice
One example I use commonly. Ford's "Cologne" 4.0L SOHC V6 found in the Explorer. It's only 1 MPG higher in efficiency compared to the 4.6L DOHC V8. The 4.0L V6 has to try that much harder to get it up to speed, than the 4.6L V8 can, hence, you might be posting better milage with the V8 over the V6.
With the new 5.4L 3V found in the F-150 (and starting this model year 2005, the Expy) actually does better in fuel economy over the 2V version it replaced. And THIS on a vehicle that gained quite a bit of heft in the redesigning.
Just imagine what a new 6 Speed transmission can do, to improve fuel economy as well....
Ford actually has more alternative fuel vehicles than any other manufacturer. Most of the vehicles can run on ethanol if need be (this allows it to qualify as "alternative fuel")...Also, the gas powered Crown Vics, F-150's Electric Ranger's, etc.
Ford was also one of the first manufacturer's to make all their SUV's/Truck achieve (whichever was the first, and 2nd level) of those emmission standards currently in place.
Now we have a Focus trim, that allows it to acheive PZEV levels as well. And if you compare EPA number's from the same vehicles, from 4 years ago. You will see many of the vehicles HAVE improved in EPA fuel number's, in the past 4 years.
Take the Taurus for example... years back it was posting 18/28 with the base 3.0L 2V V6 Vulcan engine, now it's posting 20/29.
You can't expect Ford to make EVERY vehicle the most fuel efficient of it's kind. The best type of fuel efficiency a car can have is NOT having a car to start with.
True, but it is very realistic to expect more than just a token vehicle. Offering only single PZEV is just plan sad.
An absolute minimum of one PZEV in each class should be available (car, pickup, SUV, minivan).
And since sizes vary dramatically within each class, having a large & small version of each isn't that much to expect... especially since the same engines are shared throughout vehicles across classes anyway.
JOHN
___Can you find a Ford or other Domestic worse then the two vehicles linked below in terms of emissions available here in the states? You can start with the Hummer H2. Nope, the H2 spews less then those 2. How about the Ford Excursion? Ooops, those 2 Toyota SUV’s don’t quite meet the specs of that one either. Let’s see about a ¾ Ton Chevrolet Suburban? Nope, those Toyota SUV’s again
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Sequoia-04.htm
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-LandCruiser-04.htm
___As for a few PZEV’s, how many 04 PZEV based Focus’ have sold this year vs. 04 Prius’? If the token vehicle is sold to the masses in quantity at a price they can afford, which does the greater good?
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I doubt many auto makers (including Toyota) are any different, and if so I'd love to hear what their share holders thought about that.
Hybrids might just be profitable, though, and they sure do help the image. Image makes people feel warm and fuzzy so they buy more cars and trucks.
-juice
Initially, in the 1970s and 1980s many of the methods used to lower emissions and improve economy strangled power output. Today we seem to be moving towards a happy period created by high technology where many features that increase usable power, such as variable induction systems, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection and others actually result in engines that burn more cleanly with less fuel. Hybrid technology definitely falls in this category also, maximizing output and increasing efficiency for a given displacement, while at the same time improvements to transmissions help to harness all this power better increasing performance and fuel economy.
When I first started getting into cars as a boy in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I would curse the fact that I missed out on the muscle car era of the 1960s, and finally getting my license was spoiled by the fact that I started driving in an underpowered piece of junk. Now I realize that I am living in the golden age of automobiles.
hoe wewre the dyas" Did I mention the gas wars 20 cebts a gallon
Oh yah mileage singl;e digit in town 7-9, low 12-14 highway.
The Forester will out brake and out handle any 60s muscle car and offer much better reliability, comfort and durability. It has safety and luxury features that could not be imagined 30 to 40 years ago. It can go off road or through snow with all wheel drive and handle over 60 cubic feet of cargo. It gets over 20 mpg and runs immensely cleaner then any '60s muscle car. And by today's standards it is essentially just a cheap, boxy, dorky looking economy car and does not even qualify as a sports or performance car.
I can appreciate an old car as much as anyone, primarily for the memories it brings back. But don't go telling me that cars were better back then as compared to today.
They've been told by Ford that "we're trying to make sure every dealer in California gets at least 1 Hybrid car in 2004". This is a big Ford dealer, and they think they might swing 2 or 3. They already have firm orders for several times that many.
This dealer is slapping $2000 over sticker onto the REGULAR 2005 Escape, so god knows what the Hybrid will be marked up... I'd guess $3500 at the dealer. That's in addition to Ford's extra sticker premium, itself going to be maybe a $3500 premium over the regular V6 Escape. Add delivery and 8.25% tax, and assume they'll all come with the expensive and pointless "optional" hybrid display/GPS nav system/premium audiophile package. So we're talking MINIMUM $35,000 to drive one off the lot, and estimated delivery about 9-12 months. Probably a lot of people who get them will just immediately resell on eBay for $40-45,000.
Bottom line, the car sounds quite appealing in theory, but in practice the 2005 is just a toy for the very rich. I guess I'll just wait till the 2006 model year and see if things ease up.
I think ford should have gone the way of a turbo charged diesel in the escape. It is a proven technology with 50+ MPG.
What a disappointment the wait has been for this hybrid escape.
Toyota had a press release, IIRC, about the EPA measures and how owners might not match those figures.
Ford is being very careful, they want to brag but not heighten expectations to a point they can't meet.
-juice
"Unique Hybrid components such as the High Voltage Battery, Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission, and DC/DC converter will have an additional warranty coverage of 8 years/ 100,000 miles (10 years, 150,000 miles in PZEV states were required by law). This is in addition to the standard Ford Warranty coverages like the Bumper-to-Bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Roadside Assistance, Tires, Corrosion Protection, Safety Restraints and Emissions."
The other alternative is to hold on and face thousands of dollars of potential repair bills as this new technology starts breaking, especially in consideration that this is new technology from Found On Road Dead (Ford). The CVT transmission scares me as much as the engine, as I can see huge repair bills just for this component when it starts going.
It gets back to being a guinea pig. Or being a rich limousine liberal. But if you are a working class stiff making less than $200k per year, you can't afford to buy a car that will depreciate over $20k in four years. But lets thank all the rich people who will volunteer to be guinea Pigs, so that maybe in a few years the technology will be perfected and cheaper and the rest of us who are not multi millionaires can then benefit.
Exactly the opposite is currently happening with Prius. It now holds the all-time highest record for resale value ever!
And just think what will happen a few years from now when more reports come in that the battery-pack is still working perfectly after 150,000 miles of driving.
> The CVT transmission scares me
The PLANETARY-CVT looks & acts very much like a differential. How many times have you *ever* know a differential to fail? Try, virtually never.
JOHN
But being Ford, I see a huge potential for major issues. Remember, they claim they had to buy licenses from Toyota to avoid patent issues, but they adamantly claim it is their own technology. If that sucker has a lot of problems, in about 4 years and 100k miles, its resale value will vary depending upon how much gas is in the tank (a full tank will get you more value, an empty tank will be a junker).
If I were a betting man with money to throw away on this game, I would go with Honda or Toyota. A Ford hybrid is kind of scary.
Not all hybrid enthusiasts fit your mold.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
However some of the earlier offerings seem to compromised too much on performance (or acceleration as some advocates vehemently state), but anyway many are doing a double take to determine what they are willing to sacrifice for better mileage. While Ford might not be the most reliable, the seem to have a pretty good knack for determining what the genral public wants and then supplying it to them in quantity. Is sounds like they will have a winner with the Ford Escape, very good mileage, perfromance if you want it with lower mpg and better mpg if you drive it easy. And mark my words, the Escape will be readily available. You will be able to go down to your local Ford dealer and pickup one from the car lot. There will be no 3-6-12 month wait for Ford's Hybrid, unlike the Prius.
More Power and Mpg to the People,
MidCow
We know Ford is using heavier and less space efficient, cylinder D shape NiMH battery. We have no information on the Inverter, if it uses semi-conducting technology or not. Is the A/C electric? Some things to consider.
Dennis
Better mileage without sacrificing performance,
MidCow
The "original" had already been on the road for 3 years by the time the "classic" became available here. And in just 7 weeks, the 7th year of Prius production will end. Then, year 8 will then begin.
At what pointed is the "untested" label no longer relevant?
And by the way, that "odd" shape is becoming more and more common. Have you noticed how many SUVs are starting to adopt a similar tall & rounded look? After awhile, the shape of that first Prius will just be end up being recognized as simply ahead of its time.
JOHN
PZEV !
Efficiency is one of many benefits some hybrids offer.
JOHN
Or simply go to Edmunds car reviews.
If you order from a dealer today, minimum wait is about 9 months. Probably will be 12 months.
California is getting 1,000 vehicles in calendar year 2004. That means about 2 per dealer. Most dealers already have orders (with deposit) for 2 or 3. One dealer in LA has orders for over 50 already (as reported in the LA Times a couple of weeks back).
So, figure the 2004 production is already sold out, and there's going to be 3-6 months of backlog minimum, entering calendar year 2005.
(Source: talking to sales managers at the 2 biggest Ford dealers in the San Jose CA area last week).
Still a lot cheaper than a Hummer though
test drove it was about as smooth as glass. However, going back home
about 45 miles on interstate I wasn't too happy with my trade. It seemed like the road noise kept getting worse and worse every time I drove it and I got rid of it after 4 month. It would get 50 Mpg out in the woods but it was just a tin can on wheels. Insulation couldnt
weigh enough dont look like to me to warrant being skimpy with it.
Also, you know how you can roll down a side glass to clear off the fog
on either the outside or inside? Honda hybrid doesnt have any welt,
rubber or anything at the bottom of the glass to wipe it off.
My opinion, if ford cant cut cost on this escape dramatically it will head for the dumper. Poor people would like to have one but cant afford it, and anyone who can pay $35,000 for one WONT because they arent worried about gas mileage and they will stay with the biggies.
I read an article recently it would take 8 years driving a ford hybrid
to recover your extra price you paid in fuel saving. By then its worn out.