Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Ford Escape Hybrid

145791031

Comments

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    You might check the Hybrid Vehicles board for better, more general discussions, rcf8000.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    I am thinking seriously about getting the Golf TDI instead of a hybrid. How is the relaibility of your TDI ? What about maintenance costs? oil changes and timing belts? I am also interested in manual transmisisons and the gold offers a 5-speed and the Prius doessn't. The other consideration is a HCH or wiat until the HAH, but the mileage is only supposed to be in the mid 30s with the HAH. The HCH came be obtained with a 5-spped and probably the HAH. The Insight can be configure with a 5-spped but no Honda deaelr is able to get Insights anymore. Maybe Insight II in late 2005.

    Thanks in advance for your answers.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    I guess I got one of the good ones. The timing belt doesnt need to be replaced for 80,000 miles. I have avg 44 mpg City/Hwy. It was the best car I ever had. A new home has forced us to get a larger vehicle. We purchased a Honda Element. Oh if Honda puts a diesel int hat Element, look at. Anyways, I wholehearted ly recommend the Golf TDI. Mine was dark blue, black int and 5 speed because I drive only 5!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Anyone else notice Ford is planning on initially offering the Escape in the East and West areas only.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    that'll leave us people not on the east or west coast sitting and waiting for an Escape Hybrid.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    New vehicle buyers seldom wait to buy, they just buy something different. No availablity equals lost market share.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    EXACTLY.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    While Ford keeps talking about their Hybrid Escape coming..it's coming..it's coming...and now they're only going to produce 4000 this year... watch Honda or Toyota beat them with their own unannounced hybrid SUV.
    Wouldn't that be embarrassing!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    yes, but the waiting list on the Escape Hybrid is already at 30,000, according to USA Today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford has tons of dealers. A regional launch worked for Scion...

    -juice
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    According to USA today, Ford says that 30,000 people have expressed interest on their website. That is not quite the same as getting on a waiting list. That said, with initial production of 4,000, my guess is that it will easily sell out to techies and greenies and a few Hollywood types, who will park it in the garages of their 10,000 sf mansions, just so they that they can show how much better than us that they are.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Perhaps the Escape Hybrid is only a distraction to draw attention away from all of the Excursion's and F150's Ford would prefer to sell. Even as we speak Ford is rushing to market a bigger 6.2L gas engine for the F150 to compete with Hemi. Is Ford really serious about energy conservation and reduction of pollution?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Actually a larger engine doesn't always mean it's much thirstier.

    One example I use commonly. Ford's "Cologne" 4.0L SOHC V6 found in the Explorer. It's only 1 MPG higher in efficiency compared to the 4.6L DOHC V8. The 4.0L V6 has to try that much harder to get it up to speed, than the 4.6L V8 can, hence, you might be posting better milage with the V8 over the V6.

    With the new 5.4L 3V found in the F-150 (and starting this model year 2005, the Expy) actually does better in fuel economy over the 2V version it replaced. And THIS on a vehicle that gained quite a bit of heft in the redesigning.

    Just imagine what a new 6 Speed transmission can do, to improve fuel economy as well....

    Ford actually has more alternative fuel vehicles than any other manufacturer. Most of the vehicles can run on ethanol if need be (this allows it to qualify as "alternative fuel")...Also, the gas powered Crown Vics, F-150's Electric Ranger's, etc.

    Ford was also one of the first manufacturer's to make all their SUV's/Truck achieve (whichever was the first, and 2nd level) of those emmission standards currently in place.

    Now we have a Focus trim, that allows it to acheive PZEV levels as well. And if you compare EPA number's from the same vehicles, from 4 years ago. You will see many of the vehicles HAVE improved in EPA fuel number's, in the past 4 years.

    Take the Taurus for example... years back it was posting 18/28 with the base 3.0L 2V V6 Vulcan engine, now it's posting 20/29.

    You can't expect Ford to make EVERY vehicle the most fuel efficient of it's kind. The best type of fuel efficiency a car can have is NOT having a car to start with.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > You can't expect Ford to make EVERY vehicle the most fuel efficient of it's kind

    True, but it is very realistic to expect more than just a token vehicle. Offering only single PZEV is just plan sad.

    An absolute minimum of one PZEV in each class should be available (car, pickup, SUV, minivan).

    And since sizes vary dramatically within each class, having a large & small version of each isn't that much to expect... especially since the same engines are shared throughout vehicles across classes anyway.

    JOHN
  • xcelxcel Member Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    ___Can you find a Ford or other Domestic worse then the two vehicles linked below in terms of emissions available here in the states? You can start with the Hummer H2. Nope, the H2 spews less then those 2. How about the Ford Excursion? Ooops, those 2 Toyota SUV’s don’t quite meet the specs of that one either. Let’s see about a ¾ Ton Chevrolet Suburban? Nope, those Toyota SUV’s again …

    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-Sequoia-04.htm

    http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/E-TOYOTA-LandCruiser-04.htm

    ___As for a few PZEV’s, how many 04 PZEV based Focus’ have sold this year vs. 04 Prius’? If the token vehicle is sold to the masses in quantity at a price they can afford, which does the greater good?

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's be honest, Ford is only serious about making money.

    I doubt many auto makers (including Toyota) are any different, and if so I'd love to hear what their share holders thought about that.

    Hybrids might just be profitable, though, and they sure do help the image. Image makes people feel warm and fuzzy so they buy more cars and trucks.

    -juice
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    It's interesting that the Toyota 4.7 V8 is so dirty. The hp output and towing capability of this engine is not all that impressive, even though it is a modern DOHC 32v design.

    Initially, in the 1970s and 1980s many of the methods used to lower emissions and improve economy strangled power output. Today we seem to be moving towards a happy period created by high technology where many features that increase usable power, such as variable induction systems, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection and others actually result in engines that burn more cleanly with less fuel. Hybrid technology definitely falls in this category also, maximizing output and increasing efficiency for a given displacement, while at the same time improvements to transmissions help to harness all this power better increasing performance and fuel economy.

    When I first started getting into cars as a boy in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I would curse the fact that I missed out on the muscle car era of the 1960s, and finally getting my license was spoiled by the fact that I started driving in an underpowered piece of junk. Now I realize that I am living in the golden age of automobiles.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    is out there to make money. In fact, everybody is out there to make money. Why do I work, why do you work, why does Joe Average down the street start up his beat up 88 Escort to get to the office? So they can work and someday get something better than what they have. "Green Cars" make people feel good about the environment and about driving, so those cars create a loyal following that keeps on buying the latest version of one specific line. Look at Toyota's Prius. Honda's Insight and Civic Hybrid. Ford's Focus PZEV.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    No the muscle car era of 1964 1/2 through 1973 was the golden age: 4 speeds, dual exhuasts , huge cubic inch engines, four barrels, 3 dueces, cheap gas, reverb AM radio, power front disc brakes.

    hoe wewre the dyas" Did I mention the gas wars 20 cebts a gallon :)

    Oh yah mileage singl;e digit in town 7-9, low 12-14 highway.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    My Subaru Forester XT (turbo) will out accelerate all but the very quickest and rarest '60s muscle cars. The Plymouth Superbird, Shelby Cobra with the 427, a small number of Corvettes with the rarest engines, etc. are the only ones that can go to 60 in less than 5.3 seconds, which is what Car & Drive clocked the 5 speed Forester XT.

    The Forester will out brake and out handle any 60s muscle car and offer much better reliability, comfort and durability. It has safety and luxury features that could not be imagined 30 to 40 years ago. It can go off road or through snow with all wheel drive and handle over 60 cubic feet of cargo. It gets over 20 mpg and runs immensely cleaner then any '60s muscle car. And by today's standards it is essentially just a cheap, boxy, dorky looking economy car and does not even qualify as a sports or performance car.

    I can appreciate an old car as much as anyone, primarily for the memories it brings back. But don't go telling me that cars were better back then as compared to today.
  • miniacminiac Member Posts: 3
    You make lots of good points xcel but, I gotta agree with baggs32. When there thousands of cars in stop and go on the freeway (like every day, morning and evening in my commute, the smog generation must be at it's max. I've got to believe that the hybrids would make a significant difference in the level of smog generated under those conditions. Am I missing something?
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Gerdes or shall we call him Mr. Ford keeps pushing the Ford Focus PZEV which is a nice car indeed. Too bad the bozos at Ford decided to withdraw vehicle stability control as an option. Can it be that the people in the market for such a vehicle aren't sophisticated enough to even ask for it? I also found out that those PZEV engines really don't save fuel. Matter of fact, a review of the boards reveals people upset with the mid 20's mileage they're getting. Granted you are paying less for the Focus, but you get what ya pay for. Also a shame that the Focus doesn't shut down its engine when stopped. Just imagine if EVERY engine stopped temporarily when pausing for a light. The fuel savings would be amazing!
  • xbritxbrit Member Posts: 7
    Well I just stopped by the Ford dealer on Capitol Expressway (San Jose CA), one of the biggest in the South Bay.

    They've been told by Ford that "we're trying to make sure every dealer in California gets at least 1 Hybrid car in 2004". This is a big Ford dealer, and they think they might swing 2 or 3. They already have firm orders for several times that many.

    This dealer is slapping $2000 over sticker onto the REGULAR 2005 Escape, so god knows what the Hybrid will be marked up... I'd guess $3500 at the dealer. That's in addition to Ford's extra sticker premium, itself going to be maybe a $3500 premium over the regular V6 Escape. Add delivery and 8.25% tax, and assume they'll all come with the expensive and pointless "optional" hybrid display/GPS nav system/premium audiophile package. So we're talking MINIMUM $35,000 to drive one off the lot, and estimated delivery about 9-12 months. Probably a lot of people who get them will just immediately resell on eBay for $40-45,000.

    Bottom line, the car sounds quite appealing in theory, but in practice the 2005 is just a toy for the very rich. I guess I'll just wait till the 2006 model year and see if things ease up.
  • caperscapers Member Posts: 8
    The thing that bothers me about the Hybrid is how vague the MPG predictions are. First they said it would get 35-40 MPG with the same power as the V6. Last I heard it will only get 28 MPG with less power than the V6. That is only marginally better than the 25 MPG I currently get with my V6. When you add in the cost of battery replacement every 5 years (I hear the battery will cost 3k!) I hardly see this hybrid as cost effect.
      I think ford should have gone the way of a turbo charged diesel in the escape. It is a proven technology with 50+ MPG.

    What a disappointment the wait has been for this hybrid escape.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    As compared to normal gas or diesel cars, it also looks like hybrids in general skew really high on epa tests as compared to normal driving, so you cannot use the epa figures as a basis for comparison when calculating cost savings for a hybrid to a non-hybrid vehicle.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's probably why they are being careful (or vague, pick your stance).

    Toyota had a press release, IIRC, about the EPA measures and how owners might not match those figures.

    Ford is being very careful, they want to brag but not heighten expectations to a point they can't meet.

    -juice
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Someone on another board posted an interesting test of the Ford Escape Hybrid. Since it was a pre-production model there were a few problems. I am not sure if I can cut and paste the article here. I am sure if you do a search, you can find it. They did mention that the Escape's power steering kept failing during the test. Hopefully a minor glitch. They also posted their MPG. Interesting reading.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    also did a test. It's on www.usatoday.com.
  • carguydccarguydc Member Posts: 46
    Capers - this is directly from Ford's website. There will be no need for a replacement battery in 5 years. It's under warranty for 8 years or even 10 years in states like CA.

    "Unique Hybrid components such as the High Voltage Battery, Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission, and DC/DC converter will have an additional warranty coverage of 8 years/ 100,000 miles (10 years, 150,000 miles in PZEV states were required by law). This is in addition to the standard Ford Warranty coverages like the Bumper-to-Bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Roadside Assistance, Tires, Corrosion Protection, Safety Restraints and Emissions."
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I think will be far above $23,000. Predictions by USA Today and other reviews say it should be in the $27,000 range.
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Ok - lets just say it is an 8 year 100k warranty. So in about 4 years I will have close to 100k on this vehicle. I go try to sell it, and everyone figures that they need to budget at least $3k - $5k or more in case the batteries need to be replaced, not even thinking about other expensive components are about to go off warranty. This will kill the value of this car when you go to trade or sell. This is for a car which was very expensive to buy new, as the conventional wisdom on this thread is that it will be $3,500 more than a V6 Escape, which will actually be closer to $6 to $7 thousand more when you factor in the lack of incentives. Talk about depreciating like a rock - this thing will probably go from the $30k retail to being worth a couple of grand in that 4 year, 90k mile period.

    The other alternative is to hold on and face thousands of dollars of potential repair bills as this new technology starts breaking, especially in consideration that this is new technology from Found On Road Dead (Ford). The CVT transmission scares me as much as the engine, as I can see huge repair bills just for this component when it starts going.

    It gets back to being a guinea pig. Or being a rich limousine liberal. But if you are a working class stiff making less than $200k per year, you can't afford to buy a car that will depreciate over $20k in four years. But lets thank all the rich people who will volunteer to be guinea Pigs, so that maybe in a few years the technology will be perfected and cheaper and the rest of us who are not multi millionaires can then benefit.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > This will kill the value

    Exactly the opposite is currently happening with Prius. It now holds the all-time highest record for resale value ever!

    And just think what will happen a few years from now when more reports come in that the battery-pack is still working perfectly after 150,000 miles of driving.

    > The CVT transmission scares me

    The PLANETARY-CVT looks & acts very much like a differential. How many times have you *ever* know a differential to fail? Try, virtually never.

    JOHN
  • trucker50trucker50 Member Posts: 108
    lets be real a Ford is NOT a Toyota....all Toyota's kill Ford's when it comes to resale....unfortunately....I work for Ford....interesting thing about the 2, Toyota's made in Kentucky seem to have better quality then Ford's made in Knetucky
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    I second trucker50's point. It's a gamble. If Ford gets it right, maybe there will be some resale value left in that sucker, as non-millionaire tree huggers and greenies might be looking for an affordable hybrid that is a few years old. Heck, I guess the youngest of the Trust Fund protesters need cheap wheels to go burn down cities at G-8 summits and such. Pulling up to meet your anarchist / arsonist friends in mommy's Mercedes probably is not the coolest thing to do, but I digress.

    But being Ford, I see a huge potential for major issues. Remember, they claim they had to buy licenses from Toyota to avoid patent issues, but they adamantly claim it is their own technology. If that sucker has a lot of problems, in about 4 years and 100k miles, its resale value will vary depending upon how much gas is in the tank (a full tank will get you more value, an empty tank will be a junker).

    If I were a betting man with money to throw away on this game, I would go with Honda or Toyota. A Ford hybrid is kind of scary.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Be careful about stereotyping hybrid enthusiasts! I would never be described as a "greenie" or "tree hugger," but I sure wouldn't mind having a hybrid to run around in. I do a lot of running around in town, and I get sick of having to stop for gas frequently, and of the drain it's putting on my wallet - I'm self-employed, and can't ask for a cost-of-living raise. A hybrid that's affordable might help get this technology to those who are in the market for a new vehicle, but for whom gas prices are a significant issue.

    Not all hybrid enthusiasts fit your mold.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Actually , I think more of the people looking for hybrids fit your mold. We don't like the increasing gas prices and would like to spend less at the gas pump, period! While turbos seemed to be the answer in the late 70s early 80s, it seems that hybrid is the answer now.

    However some of the earlier offerings seem to compromised too much on performance (or acceleration as some advocates vehemently state), but anyway many are doing a double take to determine what they are willing to sacrifice for better mileage. While Ford might not be the most reliable, the seem to have a pretty good knack for determining what the genral public wants and then supplying it to them in quantity. Is sounds like they will have a winner with the Ford Escape, very good mileage, perfromance if you want it with lower mpg and better mpg if you drive it easy. And mark my words, the Escape will be readily available. You will be able to go down to your local Ford dealer and pickup one from the car lot. There will be no 3-6-12 month wait for Ford's Hybrid, unlike the Prius.

    More Power and Mpg to the People,

    MidCow
  • usbseawolf2000usbseawolf2000 Member Posts: 759
    Ford licensed Toyota's THS not HSD. THS is used in the classic Prius. Since then, HSD is implemented improvement in the Inverter, battery, A/C, electric motors design, computer software, and other things that I can not think of now.

    We know Ford is using heavier and less space efficient, cylinder D shape NiMH battery. We have no information on the Inverter, if it uses semi-conducting technology or not. Is the A/C electric? Some things to consider.

    Dennis
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    What turned me off from the Classic Prius was the odd shape and the untested technology. My next car may be a Hybrid, it may not, depending on how efficient the ICE version is compared to the HYBRID.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Jchan2, I am with you man. My next car might be a hybrid also. I wasn't aware of the classic hybrid, but considering my feeling on the current Prius' power, it wouldn't have been a consideration anyways.

    Better mileage without sacrificing performance,

    MidCow
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > What turned me off from the Classic Prius was the odd shape and the untested technology.

    The "original" had already been on the road for 3 years by the time the "classic" became available here. And in just 7 weeks, the 7th year of Prius production will end. Then, year 8 will then begin.

    At what pointed is the "untested" label no longer relevant?

    And by the way, that "odd" shape is becoming more and more common. Have you noticed how many SUVs are starting to adopt a similar tall & rounded look? After awhile, the shape of that first Prius will just be end up being recognized as simply ahead of its time.

    JOHN
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Sorry if I offended. I also am interested in hybrids, and that is why I am here. I think that eventually the technology will be common. However, at the beginning it will be an expensive risk for the producers and consumers. That is why I think a lot of the initial buyers are interested in making a statement, as the purchase is otherwise tough to rationally justify. But it is going to be the risks taken by these early adapters (is that a less loaded term?) that will allow this technology to develop and mature.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the technology to mature. Meanwhile, I'm still sipping gas in a Honda Civic.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Member Posts: 1,897
    > sipping gas

    PZEV !

    Efficiency is one of many benefits some hybrids offer.

    JOHN
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    how long is the waiting list now?
  • carguydccarguydc Member Posts: 46
  • xbritxbrit Member Posts: 7
    <<how long is the waiting list now?>>

    If you order from a dealer today, minimum wait is about 9 months. Probably will be 12 months.

    California is getting 1,000 vehicles in calendar year 2004. That means about 2 per dealer. Most dealers already have orders (with deposit) for 2 or 3. One dealer in LA has orders for over 50 already (as reported in the LA Times a couple of weeks back).

    So, figure the 2004 production is already sold out, and there's going to be 3-6 months of backlog minimum, entering calendar year 2005.

    (Source: talking to sales managers at the 2 biggest Ford dealers in the San Jose CA area last week).
  • xbritxbrit Member Posts: 7
    Of course it all depends whether money is important. If you feel like spending $39,000 (after tax and delivery) on a $27,000 car, you can buy a 2004 Prius on EBay today. I expect the Escape Hybrid will be available there by Labor Day. I'm guessing $42,000 to $45,000 asking price, since the base price of the Escape will be higher than the Prius.

    Still a lot cheaper than a Hummer though :)
  • maxx4memaxx4me Member Posts: 1,340
    he, he, he...that was funny xbrit. I actually negotiated a buying service price at my Ford dealer (I won't go into the details on how I swung that one). Nonetheless, I've pretty much decided not to get a hybrid Escape, and throw this golden opportunity out the window. Crazy, huh??
  • slimjack1443slimjack1443 Member Posts: 1
    I'm a fanatic about anything Hi-tech and I bought a 2003 hybrid honda civic in 2002. The pavement around around the dealership and where I
    test drove it was about as smooth as glass. However, going back home
    about 45 miles on interstate I wasn't too happy with my trade. It seemed like the road noise kept getting worse and worse every time I drove it and I got rid of it after 4 month. It would get 50 Mpg out in the woods but it was just a tin can on wheels. Insulation couldnt
    weigh enough dont look like to me to warrant being skimpy with it.
    Also, you know how you can roll down a side glass to clear off the fog
    on either the outside or inside? Honda hybrid doesnt have any welt,
    rubber or anything at the bottom of the glass to wipe it off.
    My opinion, if ford cant cut cost on this escape dramatically it will head for the dumper. Poor people would like to have one but cant afford it, and anyone who can pay $35,000 for one WONT because they arent worried about gas mileage and they will stay with the biggies.
    I read an article recently it would take 8 years driving a ford hybrid
    to recover your extra price you paid in fuel saving. By then its worn out.
Sign In or Register to comment.