Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Same will occur with the Futura... it'll be a regular sedan finished in a regular way, but have this same powertrain in it. Integrating a powetrain inside a specific vehicle doesn't require it to skimp out on numerous other issues, for the sake of efficiency.
Point of comparison, my nearest big Ford dealer is marking up ALL their non-hybrid Escapes by $2000 over MSRP. Both 2003 and 2004 models. So I think you were extremely lucky.
My local Ford dealer is marking up their non-hybrid escapes (both the 2004 and 2005 models) by $2,000 over MSRP. So take the MSRP of the Escape V6, add $4,000 Ford markup for the hybrid technology, plus another $4,000 dealer markup, and assume another $1,500 (?) for the GPS navigation system/hybrid status display/audiophile stereo system, because I'm betting they won't make a single vehicle without this "option".
I first realized that gouging was going to occur when I saw that bundle... compulsory premium-priced audio if you want the little LCD screen. Blatant price-stuffing.
Many people (including me) feel strongly that the USA's huge consumption of the world's oil is morally and practically wrong. When it starts to run out (i.e. world output actually declines, say in another 3-5 years), the consequences will be quite unpleasant. In addition, notice the yellow haze in the air? And the huge increase in asthma cases? Hybrids are an excellent practical way to reduce my personal contribution to all these problems. They also make a statement... i.e. they send a message to others and raise public consciousness.
However, given that the hybrid I want (Ford Escape) is about a 12-month wait and will end up close to $10,000 higher than a non-hybrid after everybody has finished price-gouging, I have to admit that even my pocketbook tolerance is being exceeded. Most likely I'll just keep driving my old car for another year or two.
Enough politics though. I honestly don't see the the markup being that high in most areas. If where you live the dealer is marking up regular Escapes, then you must live where everything is marked up. There was a review done by the Detroit Free Press that reitterated the expectation of a high $20K sticker price. Once the Lexus and Toyota hybrids come out, there's no way Ford dealers will be able to mark up the Escapes.
YMMV,
MidCow
Based on the article, the reporter didn't measure properly. Being unaware of the bladder in the tank meant he was able to unknowingly overfill. That skewed the results.
Owners report the displayed value in Prius being 1.5 to 2 MPG optimistic on the average. That meant he actually got around 49 MPG.
JOHN
Explain why.
What detail to you have to support your claim?
The two designs are quite similar.
JOHN
<brk>
midnightcowboy "Hybrids in the News" Jun 11, 2004 3:44pm
Enough of doing research for you on the Ford Escape. Look up the information next time yourself.
YMMV,
MidCow
___The item of note is financial payback period if there is one. Most use EPA estimates to compare one vehicle vs. another in terms of fuel cost savings over a given amount of miles driven over any number of years. Since the real world mileage of the Prius II appears to be ~ 45 mpg, that is the number one should be comparing, not 55. Now what about the real world fuel economy of a non-Hybrid? I sure would like to see Car and Driver or Motor Trend perform their bumper to bumper run of the Prius II, HCH, and Insight against a Malibu MAXX, Accord, Camry, Civic, Corolla, and Focus Then you would really have some numbers to chew on. Personally, I can see a 10 - 15% shortfall against EPA estimates in the std. SI ICE’s and with that, compare up aginst the larger shortfall of the Hybrid’s.
___Fortunately, we have all seen the Escape Hybrid’s real world run in Manhattan with multiple non-Hybrid drivers taking turns to run her dry. 38 mpg was achieved in the real world in some of the worst city traffic one could find on the planet. I wonder if a Prius II would achieve its ballyhooed 60 mpg in the same?
___As I have felt all along, a new hybrid purchase on fuel cost savings alone is ill-conceived at best.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Once again, please explain this quote "I think the Ford Escape Hybrid will come much closer than the Prius toward obtaining EPA mileage numbers."
What design difference are you claiming?
JOHN
Read the fine print. The current plans are to create the hydrogen using coal & oil.
Do you believe we will suddenly embrace nuclear fission/fusion or have a dramatic increase in wind farms?
The electricity needed to seperate hydrogen from water has to come from somewhere.
JOHN
Forcing me to deduce what you mean (since you answered with a question, rather than directly), you believe that solar will somehow provide the bulk of the electricity needed to create the hydrogen.
Hmmm. How exactly is that going to happen? And where? Solar is a highly evasive technology. It requires large amounts of land and clear surface area. The new wind-farms don't though. The towers are so huge that they don't interfere with stuff below at all. There is just a pole protruding from the ground here and there, yet even that has issues. How solar could be accepted is rather a mystery... especially it areas where sunlight is limited and it snows routinely, like the entire northern third of the US!
JOHN
usbseawolf2000 "Hybrid vs Diesel" Jun 11, 2004 9:48pm
Dennis
For HSD, on the highway, the gas engine does most of the work but much less work. Less fuel is injected and burned just to keep constant speed. Atkinson cycle engine is efficient at small/partial load just like the diesel engine. The difference is that, Diesel is less efficient in the city and pollute more. Both did a much better job than traditional Otto cycle cars.
Dennis
Wrong!
Ford says it will modify about 20 of the 370 patents that Toyota (TM) holds for its gas/electric hybrid technology, used in the Prius car. The patents Ford is buying involve software that controls, among other things, whether the gas engine or electric motor is used.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0403/11/autos-87820.htm
Straight from Detroit news, Ford is licensing 370 Toyota patents from the first generation Prius. We all know how much the new Prius is more efficient than the classic one.
To see the bigger picture, the new Hybrid Synergy Drive has 230 more new patents than the first Toyota Hybrid System.
Dennis
Thanks for the clarification about the Toyota patents!
YMMV,
MidCow
WOW, Drove an economy car 22/30 mpog yesterday that they were willing to sell at 1% below invoice. Man was it fast, I was to 80 before I knew it. Is was an SRT4
The critics that questioned my sources and said the Escape would price at $23,000 have some Crow to eat.
Get real, hybrids will not save the world. But I think a diesel burning soybean oil will. That's what rudolf diesel designed the engine to burn, not the dirty crap that the oil companies sell us.
The oil companies bought up all the mass transit systems in California in the 40's and 50's and destroyed them all. Did you know this? Will the politicians tell us this?
George Bush's energy plan was written by Enron! Get real, all the so called leaders of the USA are in back pockets of the oil companies. We need to clean house and the senate! Before it's too late. The latest estimate is for the oil to dry up by 2026. What will your hybrid burn then? At least a diesel can burn almost anything from peanut oil to soybean oils. Gas engines can't hydrogen is great but you need to make it by using electricity.
Just a thought...resale value doesn't mean squat in my book
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18541&ma- ke_id=trust
___Thanks for the link.
The MSRPs of Escape Hybrid are $3,300 to $3,425 above comparably equipped 2005 V-6 powered Ford Escape XLT models.
___That amount of additional premium just about kills off any fuel savings one might have hoped for. Ford would have been better off to simply place the 2004 Focus 2.3 PZEV motor in the 2005 Escape as is instead of taking the PZEV HW away At least Highway miles would have been ~ equivalent at 29 - 30 mpg for the 2WD version and City would have probably been in the low 20’s instead of mid to high 30’s. With that, probably $5,000 + dollars less expensive as well? I am sure someone will look up the exact difference in price between a V6 XLT and the 2.3 L $ loaded up with similar equipment.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I'll add a few more:
* in MD, you're state sales tax exempt, 5% up to $2000
* mileage (duh)
* range is increased
* good torque at low speeds
-juice
-juice
Simple... Ethanol.
I'm using 10% in my hybrid now, and getting a little better MPG than diesel.
85% is available locally too. And FFV technonology is quite common now. A hybrid adapted for that is no big deal.
100% is just as realistic as bio-diesel. So you really don't have much of an argument.
JOHN
Now, here's my reasons for getting this car...
I currently drive a 97 Ford Taurus and am getting 22MPG which I think sucks since it's mostly highway miles for a car nearly solely used for commuting. We are expecting our third child and, although I really would like to get the new Acura TL, my sedan days are over. We do have a minivan, but it gets 17MPG and I really hate using that for the short weekend trips around town - exactly the trips that the Escape will provide the best gas mileage. Anyone who tries to strap a baby into a car seat knows how much easier it is when the seats are higher up.
As others have voiced here, I also believe that it is very important to send a message to the car companies that we want them to make the environmental impact problem a top priority.
Biodiesel can be made from palm oil, canola oil, hemp oil, corn oil, waste vegetable oils, animal fats, waste animal fat oils, soybean oil and more.
There is much more feedstock availability for biodiesel than there is for ethanol.
Other biomass feedstocks for ethanol besides corn are possible.
Biodiesel require no modifications to diesel engines. Anything greater than 10% ethanol requires engine modifcations to gasoline engines.
Ethanol is not as feasible as biodiesel.
At least with the diesel goobs of good Ole low-end torque, if they would use the 2.7 that's in Europe.
Paul
"feasible" is clearly the wrong word. The definition is "Capable of being accomplished or brought about".
Perhaps, "more likely" is what you intended to say.
What did you actually mean?
JOHN
Huh?
It will be about 3 years before large numbers of hybrids even hit the roads.
How much more lead time do you need?
JOHN
When it comes to low-end torque, electric is capable of putting diesel to shame. To verify that, just look at a train, forklift, or Prius.
There is quite literally no way for a combustion engine to compete. It isn't capable of RPM as low as just 1. Needing to pump at a minimum of a few hundred RPM is a fundamental limitation caused by the pistons.
JOHN